07-22-2013 12:18 PM
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  1. bryantest's Avatar
    New Evidence About Why Windows Phone Is Doomed In America - Forbes

    After spasms of enthusiasm about Nokia 920 selling out last November at Amazon and Nokia 521 selling out at Walmart and HSN HSNI -1.38% last May, there is now another exciting sell-out news. The fantastic camera phone 1020 has sold out immediately at AT&T! Dampening excitement about this development is the fact that we now know why Nokia models keep selling out within an hour or two in the US market across a wide range of retailers. Its because the shipments are tiny, not because the demand is hot. In the meanwhile, the carriers are placing massive initial orders for vendors like Apple AAPL -1.58% and Samsung, guaranteeing them massive marketing support for months.

    The combination of the long string of 920, 521 and 1020 sell-outs in the US market and Nokias 2Q 2013 shipment data has only one possible explanation. The US retail partners from AT&T and Verizon to Walmart and HSN are placing exceptionally small launch orders. They have zero faith in American consumer demand for Windows smartphones. That is why we keep seeing instant sell-outs of new models followed by long stretches of models being out of stock which in turn damage sales. Retail partners refuse to stock up in fear of getting stuck with inventory. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy.


    Agree? Disagree? Sound off!
    07-20-2013 12:42 AM
  2. crash1989's Avatar
    3rd option don't care , I am more than happy with WP

    waiting for other comments .. and America << The whole world
    Jazmac likes this.
    07-20-2013 12:52 AM
  3. Muessig's Avatar
    Not really sure if this is as sensationalist as you seem to want it to be. I think the companies don't want stock around for months on a phone that they aren't sure how well it will sell, so they order a certain amount at the start see the demand and order more. This happens in every retail sector. I don't think the numbers are as small as you are trying to make out here, as American carriers have seen prolonged positive sales from the 92x series. Nice try, though lol.
    07-20-2013 12:59 AM
  4. sinime's Avatar
    Yet Nokia keeps selling more and more WPs each quarter. Hmmm, may be low initial inventories, but they are still selling, even after the "small" launch quantities.
    snowmutt likes this.
    07-20-2013 01:10 AM
  5. FinancialP's Avatar
    To be fair the article was about the US, and why the US carriers keep selling out. 500k US devices shipped. Blah blah, new title same story.

    I only read the excerpt... So yeah ok. I guess.
    07-20-2013 01:35 AM
  6. thesmithiz's Avatar
    And yet the article fails to mention how Verizon is on the hook for not being able to meet the iPhone commit with Apple... in my opinion WP is beginning to reflect something I could see coming for a bit now in the smartphone market - a market segment that want a device that works easy, has an easy to use UI and everyday apps. I think this was a very underserved segment with all the app frenzied iOS and Android hype. I've seen all the trends being employed for 28+ years in the mobile industry.....no text messaging...no apps...sporadic coverage.....roaming was a task...ahh the good old days!
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    07-20-2013 08:52 AM
  7. androidtoWM's Avatar
    My family and I went to our local T-Mobile store to order couple of the Lumia 521. We were told that they were out of stock and it would be backordered with an expected delivery of 3days (although the CSR on the phone who took the order didn't mention this. She said there is no expected delivery date but the store CSR said its about 3days). We had to wait 2 WEEKS to get those phones. In the meantime they ported my parents old number to T-Mobile so they were out of phones for a whole week and half while waiting for this to ship. If it wasn't for me, they would've ordered some other phones that were in stock. I'm really disappointed with the marketing Nokia gets here in the USA.
    07-20-2013 03:38 PM
  8. eric12341's Avatar
    Lots of hate towards MS out there still I see.
    snowmutt and xandros9 like this.
    07-20-2013 09:01 PM
  9. Oakdale Dude's Avatar
    It's an opinion piece written by a writer with his OWN opinions. Take it for what it is.

    Financial sites like Forbes, Motley Fool, Business Insider etc, etc exist to push agendas. Not be objective.

    Forbes had 3 Nokia Hit Pieces in the last 2 weeks....Do the math
    07-20-2013 09:34 PM
  10. nube_android's Avatar
    Well look what just happened in Russia with the carriers, and china mobile, and NTT docomo in Japan. How soon until the us carriers drop the iPhone because it hurts their margins? If they do, who do you think the IOS fans are going to go to? Android? Most will go to windows phone I would bet. Also, nokias lumias are only getting started in the US.
    12Danny123 likes this.
    07-20-2013 09:45 PM
  11. Oakdale Dude's Avatar
    Well look what just happened in Russia with the carriers, and china mobile, and NTT docomo in Japan. How soon until the us carriers drop the iPhone because it hurts their margins? If they do, who do you think the IOS fans are going to go to? Android? Most will go to windows phone I would bet. Also, nokias lumias are only getting started in the US.
    I though Apple Fanboys despised Microsoft more than they did Google LOL
    07-20-2013 10:42 PM
  12. sumothong01's Avatar
    I read that article last night. One thing that has not been addressed is 2 year phone upgrades. Most people are on a 2 year upgrade plan. So 80-90% people are going to wait 2 years before they begin to think about upgrading. WP8 released in Oct 12'. So its been released for what? 8 months?!? Gez give it at least 2 years before you start labeling in a failure.
    snowmutt likes this.
    07-20-2013 11:02 PM
  13. awkm's Avatar
    Need to justify spending $750+ on an iPhone to run an inferior OS that can be silky smooth on a Windows device costing $250

    They'll fight hard.
    07-21-2013 12:09 AM
  14. LMZR's Avatar
    Lots of hate towards MS out there still I see.
    There will always be hate towards MS.
    07-21-2013 02:08 AM
  15. nube_android's Avatar
    I read that article last night. One thing that has not been addressed is 2 year phone upgrades. Most people are on a 2 year upgrade plan. So 80-90% people are going to wait 2 years before they begin to think about upgrading. WP8 released in Oct 12'. So its been released for what? 8 months?!? Gez give it at least 2 years before you start labeling in a failure.
    The thing is, I bet Forbes writers don't care. They've all been shorting MS like crazy I would bet.
    07-21-2013 02:32 AM
  16. qudahamohammad's Avatar
    I don't really get the smartphone war. all I wanted to say:
    buy what you want, buy what you need, discuss it with its people, stop comparing, stop complaining.

    OT: Forbes is paid to write what it writes.
    US isn't the world and Facebook, notification centre and Instagram aren't the end of the world.
    Also, it's funny how one guy, Rudy Huyn, developed Vine and is developing Instagram when all what Microsoft does is not supplying us with a simple notification centre or connectivity shortcuts.
    and I would like to say, in the Middle East, Lumia 520 and 620 are spreading like cancer. I'm pretty sure India is the same.
    Last edited by qudahamohammad; 07-21-2013 at 02:54 AM.
    snowmutt and rockstarzzz like this.
    07-21-2013 02:44 AM
  17. Huime's Avatar
    I did not know HSN to sell out 25k phones within 24hours is indication of a tiny stock. That's probably Nokia's total output of the week.
    07-21-2013 04:39 AM
  18. ag1986's Avatar
    and I would like to say, in the Middle East, Lumia 520 and 620 are spreading like cancer. I'm pretty sure India is the same.
    No, it really isn't. Which surprises me actually.

    I was home for a few weeks last month. Every kid these days is buying those extremely cheap Android phones from brands like Micromax, Karbonn, Celkonn etc. Why. Because for 10K INR ($168), you get a dual-SIM 5-inch phone with Jellybean 4.2.1, 8 MP snapper. Compare this to the Lumia 520 for the same price, or even the Lumia 620 which is $60 more. Why? They're crappy phones, yes. But they're also big and impressive-looking, large screen for video, good for internet browsing and playing games which is all they care about. Even here, WP's reputation for lacking apps manifests itself. It's also got a reputation for needing 3G all the time (true to some extent) and mobile Internet is hardly reliable in India. Or something as simple as a dual-SIM phone - at least three people have told me that they got a Samsung Galaxy Grand over the Lumia 620/720 for just this one reason.

    I've seen many of these phones, also low and mid-range Samsung/LG handsets, but no Lumias (which I think are the ONLY wp8 devices available in India).

    Unless Nokia really ups their game, they're going to lose one of their last bastions.
    07-21-2013 04:57 AM
  19. psudotechzealot's Avatar
    Windows Phone isn't going anywhere... ...................................Windows Phone for life!

    xandros9 likes this.
    07-21-2013 07:12 AM
  20. nube_android's Avatar
    The biggest issue is really that Android phones are selling for much cheaper than Lumia counterparts, Android has more apps, Android is more capable, and Android is closing the OS fluidity gap as we speak.
    07-21-2013 09:47 AM
  21. migueli2's Avatar
    The biggest issue is really that Android phones are selling for much cheaper than Lumia counterparts, Android has more apps, Android is more capable, and Android is closing the OS fluidity gap as we speak.
    About the apps - having apps that do really nothing interesting is not an advantage. More capable? In what? Fluidity? Not really.
    someoneinwa likes this.
    07-21-2013 10:02 AM
  22. ttsoldier's Avatar
    Lumia sales continue to rise yet people continue to bash WP8.

    Why? Because to them, the world does not exist outside of the U.S. If U.S sales are bad, this means WP8 sales are bad/suck/going to fail

    It's pretty funny actually.
    07-21-2013 10:07 AM
  23. WereRat's Avatar
    Marketshare as a statistic is a funny thing these days. Total marketshare can be completely thrown off by a glut of shovelware phones (thinking the cheapo Androids here). At the same time, among the 'elite' phone users, it's a different equation; people want not the best phone but the one the other guys have (aka: what the people in the job you want have).

    Then there's a completely different equation: can it get development mindshare? I would honestly hate to debut a new app on Android right now. There's so much chaff out there that I'd need to catch the right meme at the right time to make any decent impact. Also, all the people who buy the above cheapo phones are probably not lining up to actually PAY for apps. iOS is kind of a different story; there I think people are willing to pony up, but a new effort has to be really polished. WP is the area where I think a bootstrap effort can succeed.

    Bottom line: with really competent bargain WP phones (521, etc.) selling out, and Nokia rocking the 'elite' phone world a bit with the 1020, WP has almost all it needs to break out. The missing piece, as you guys identified, is M$; they need to keep delivering the good updates to bring WP's featureset to fruition. I think they (MSFT) have realized they need to get their act in gear, thus the reorg. I hope they deliver; two-party races are not the best for us as consumers.
    07-21-2013 11:01 AM
  24. jmshub's Avatar
    Hit piece.
    07-21-2013 01:22 PM
  25. MikeSo's Avatar
    The article is specifically about the US, so the situation in Russia is irrelevant.
    I think it's hard to refute the author's arguments, but the headline is sensationalistic.
    The core issue is: carriers don't believe in WP, and stock very little, and thus sell very little, and that reinforces their lack of belief, which makes them not willing to promote it, etc... How to break this cycle?
    I don't know enough about the cell phone business in the US to have an answer. But when you see WP phones constantly shoved away to make room for whatever new Android phone is on the market this week, it makes you wonder how WP will make it.
    07-21-2013 01:43 PM
45 12

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