10-11-2013 09:38 AM
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  1. gab1972's Avatar
    I'm not a developer, but it goes beyond brand loyalty or getting money to develop it. While I believe money is a large issue, it's about *continuing* to make money. Consider this...

    If it were that easy to develop an app and all that was involved was getting your dev team to do so, companies like Pocket and Waze (and several others) certainly have the means to do so. So it's not the fact that they need the money to develop it. They want money to maintain and grow it. And that comes from market share.

    It's no secret that Microsoft is now 3rd on the charts not because they're making a thunderous headway, but because besides iOS and Android, who else is left? Blackberry is dead in the water waiting for a towline from someone. Sure, perhaps WP8 is gaining some attention and a bit of momentum lately, but there's still not enough market share. There's not *enough* people buying WP to make corporate companies want to develop and *maintain* for WP. If you had only 3 stocks you could invest in, would you invest in the bottom one?

    I, for one, like my L928. I can't say I love it. But I'm very happy with what MS is doing and I'm going to stick this baby out and see where the ride goes. But we need more interest in our OS if we expect corporate companies to develop for us. It's all about the long haul, not the initial investment.
    nohra, MikeSo and svenhassel like this.
    10-08-2013 07:44 AM
  2. SwimSwim's Avatar
    You missed my main point -

    I know that some companies have no issue using WP and that it works for them. However at my company they wouldn't adpot it. This is due to the inability to disable Skydrive easily and some other bits. As long as 'high level' security is neeeded, WP will be a distant 4th for take up for enterprise. BB is still the phone of choice currently. I have little doubt they would go for WP if they felt it was secure enough.

    Let's hope their update in 2014 does some good. I have heard that Skydrive will be even more integrated into the OS, so not sure.
    Doesn't Windows Phone already have some corporate policy things like that? You just set-up an Exchange Email account with your company, then it immediately encrypts your phone's storage and requires a more advanced password (based on the criteria set by your company). It also enables your company to remotely erase your phone, should they deem it necessary. Plus, it allows the company to have its own page in the WP Marketplace (obviously only accessible to company members), where they can publish their own, private company apps, have a news board, etc.

    To my knowledge, that's more than iOS (Apple doesn't let anyone lay a finger on their precious OS) and Android (the jumbled mess it is) offer up. It may not be Blackberry, but if it beats the competition, won't people still seek out Windows Phone?
    nohra and Bartdog like this.
    10-08-2013 08:56 AM
  3. nohra's Avatar
    Has anyone else had problems with those corporate apps being absent or unsupported?
    Nope. I have no need for them, so I wouldn't use them if they were there.

    Now, I realize some people do use their phones for banking and stuff like that, so if these kinds of apps would interest them, then by all means I hope WP gets them. For me, I want more photo/image apps than any kind of banking/investing/shopping apps, but that's just because I do use those. WP has several of those, so I'm as happy as a clown with the platform. Keep 'em coming!

    There's been a steady stream of 'corporate' apps, and as WP market share grows, I doubt that will decrease.

    If you need those apps now, then you're probably better off on a different platform. I think that's going to be the basic statement for at least 2 more years: If you absolutely have to have everything that's on iPhone or Android, then you should get one of those. For me, the benefits of WP is more important than any particular app.
    10-08-2013 09:30 AM
  4. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Doesn't Windows Phone already have some corporate policy things like that? You just set-up an Exchange Email account with your company, then it immediately encrypts your phone's storage and requires a more advanced password (based on the criteria set by your company). It also enables your company to remotely erase your phone, should they deem it necessary. Plus, it allows the company to have its own page in the WP Marketplace (obviously only accessible to company members), where they can publish their own, private company apps, have a news board, etc.

    To my knowledge, that's more than iOS (Apple doesn't let anyone lay a finger on their precious OS) and Android (the jumbled mess it is) offer up. It may not be Blackberry, but if it beats the competition, won't people still seek out Windows Phone?
    Sigh. Again, as I've already said. Yes some companies this is perfect for them. However, strict policy is not catered for. Main one for my company would be Skydrive. Far as I know you cannot shut this off on WP currently. I'm not sure about other policies but I'm sure they'd want to shut off any social media stuff and access to webmail. Not sure if that's possible.

    Most large enterprises have very strict IT policies that WP doesn't cater for yet. Most will want to block what I've mentioned above. The only thing my work will allow for personal use is the WiFi and that's severely crippled. I'm not 100% certain what iOS or Android have as I haven't heard of any company adopting them. Most still use BB until something better comes along.
    nohra likes this.
    10-08-2013 09:58 AM
  5. SwimSwim's Avatar
    Sigh. Again, as I've already said. Yes some companies this is perfect for them. However, strict policy is not catered for. Main one for my company would be Skydrive. Far as I know you cannot shut this off on WP currently. I'm not sure about other policies but I'm sure they'd want to shut off any social media stuff and access to webmail. Not sure if that's possible.

    Most large enterprises have very strict IT policies that WP doesn't cater for yet. Most will want to block what I've mentioned above. The only thing my work will allow for personal use is the WiFi and that's severely crippled. I'm not 100% certain what iOS or Android have as I haven't heard of any company adopting them. Most still use BB until something better comes along.
    I see. Well hopefully Microsoft gets right on that. As you said, Blackberry is dead in the water, it's only a matter of time before the ship goes down. Windows already rules enterprise on the desktop, so it'd be amazing if Microsoft could implement those same features on Windows Phone, so that they may capture all the business once Blackberry is gone.
    nohra likes this.
    10-08-2013 10:03 AM
  6. pillswoj's Avatar
    I agree with the OP, it is these local business apps that are missing. I recently recommended a Nexus 4 for my wife largely because of the app experience (banking, gas etc). I knew going to WP that apps would be missing and they are coming out slowly. I have over a year to go on my contract and my hope is that once BB is dead businesses will support WP as well as Android and iOS. I think for this year they were waiting to see which OS would become #3.
    10-08-2013 10:18 AM
  7. Jeffrey Fox's Avatar
    Thanks for reminding me to email Suntrust bank again about developing a WP8 app. Its nice that Mint.com is finally developing for us, now its time to take up the torch again and head to my local bank.
    10-08-2013 10:29 AM
  8. stephen_az's Avatar
    I've been using WP since January 2013, and I really like the OS and the WP/Win8 infrastructure.

    I've been an evangelist for WP8... and I've convinced 4 close friends to try the WP8 platform. And yesterday the last of those 4 jettisoned their WP8 devices and went back to their iOS or Android devices.

    All 4 of those people left WP8 for the same reason... lack of the apps that they wanted/needed. There are many apps to cover what I call silly apps... Youtube... Pandora... Instagram... etc... but what is missing in almost every case are what I call "corporate apps". Mobile banking... store discount apps... website mobile access apps...

    I've pretended that not having these apps was no big deal... but I'm fooling myself. Using the mobile websites for my banks and investment brokers is a poor substitute and lacks the functionality of their mobile apps. My banks offer mobile deposits and bill pay through their mobile apps... but this is difficult or impossible through their mobile websites... and using the full websites is too cumbersome on a small phone screen.

    So I don't know what the future of WP holds. I have had great experiences with the OS itself... it's smooth and stable. But I must admit that I'm tempted to bail on WP myself if the situation doesn't change with corporate app support.

    Has anyone else had problems with those corporate apps being absent or unsupported?
    I am sorry but I have to take this sort of post with a grain of salt. First, none of the apps you mention are corporate - they are definitively consumer. Second, the largest US banks do have apps (B of A, Chase, and Wells Fargo) as do quite a few major retailers. According to your profile you are in the US. Third, so your friends have bought phones within the year on your "evangelization" and then dumped them within months? I guess they either like paying substantial penalties or buy pricey phones off contract. Either way, why would someone jump on a platform without assurance it meets their needs? Finally, you actually mention Pandora before jumping to the "corporate" comment and the official WP 8 Pandora app is not only available (and has been for a long time) but has been noted as having nice WP 8 perks not available on the other platforms. Yes, there is a need for more apps in certain areas, which is something that improves daily, but I really have to be skeptical when someone calls him or herself an "evangelist" but has also said elsewhere said they bought the phone "on a lark" and have single digit posts on this site.
    10-08-2013 10:47 AM
  9. cckgz4's Avatar
    I highly doubt lack of corporate apps are the sole reason for WP not doing as well as it could
    10-08-2013 11:15 AM
  10. wamsille's Avatar
    Windows Phone does lack a lot of official applications. I doubt my bank will ever have more than a simple mobile banking app (minus mobile check deposit) in the next two years. Like all companies, they have to see a benefit to their customers. Alternatively, a way to monetize the research and development output in creating an app for the third/fourth place platform.

    I keep an Android phone around so I can do mobile deposit when I need to. Right now this HTC One I'm playing with is looking more tempting by the minute. It lacks the 41MP camera, but for quick pictures (which account for half of the ones I take) it works.
    broar94 likes this.
    10-08-2013 11:17 AM
  11. Jcmg62's Avatar
    The only way we'll see more apps is to stick with the platform and tell everyone we know how great it is. Momentum is the key. As an early adopter of the N900 Maemo platform I fully understand how frustrating a lack of apps can be, particularly when the actual OS is brilliant. Hopefully Microsoft and Nokia will continue to create awesome phones and an ever improving platform, which will in turn draw in the major app developers......

    Oh....and they need to throw a tonne of cash at advertising......its all about getting as many Lumia's in as many hands as possible, at whatever cost it takes.
    10-08-2013 11:38 AM
  12. phstratton's Avatar
    I've noticed the lack of certain first party apps like instagram and vine, and have had trouble using the 3rd party options for those like instance and 6sec, but overall every app I need I have. I have only been with WP for about a month and I love it, but I must admit I only wanted the phone because you can earn Xbox achievements 😜. Now that I have it I like it but I miss a few features of my androids. Its still leagues ahead of IOS though.
    10-08-2013 11:48 AM
  13. MikeSo's Avatar
    I just wish that more companies would make better mobile websites instead of apps. Mobile websites don't take up storage on the phones, require no updating, no store/marketplace, etc. I blame Apple for introducing the whole "app craze"... we were on our way to a "client server" situation with the mobile web, and then they came along and destroyed it in favor of the old "install local program" model instead, to further their own goals. Nothing to do about it now, I guess. But it's what has made it hard for other OSs to break through, and we're all worse off for it. There are of course some apps like games that can't be done online, but the majority of "regular" apps CAN be.
    BonzeUK, etad putta, nohra and 3 others like this.
    10-08-2013 11:59 AM
  14. Jcmg62's Avatar
    I agree Mike.....there was absolutely nothing wrong with the mobile website route until Apple came along and made some sort of weird competition out of seeing how quickly you can download a thousand totally pointless, hard drive consuming apps.
    maevinj, nohra and Guzzler3 like this.
    10-08-2013 12:09 PM
  15. ohgood's Avatar
    I just wish that more companies would make better mobile websites instead of apps. Mobile websites don't take up storage on the phones, require no updating, no store/marketplace, etc. I blame Apple for introducing the whole "app craze"... we were on our way to a "client server" situation with the mobile web, and then they came along and destroyed it in favor of the old "install local program" model instead, to further their own goals. Nothing to do about it now, I guess. But it's what has made it hard for other OSs to break through, and we're all worse off for it. There are of course some apps like games that can't be done online, but the majority of "regular" apps CAN be.

    bam, nailed it.

    i really don't want an app for cnn, abc, nbc, cbs, natgeo, or the 500 other channels on television. i want good, mobile specific sites.

    thanks for getting it right .
    nohra likes this.
    10-08-2013 01:01 PM
  16. randymadden's Avatar
    I don't want to sound contrite, but the fact that you're bringing this up now is a little like stating the obvious. I'm as much an evangelist for WP as anyone. I pretty never shut up about it. I've used Windows "phones" since before they were phones (remember the Pocket PC? Yep, that was me). I've had only MS mobile devices since 2000. But the point you're making IS the problem. It's pretty much the ONLY problem. And we've been saying it for years. Everyone I've ever talked to who uses the phone loves the OS. It's always been about the lack of apps.

    I want to propose 2 possible methods to attack the problem: One is a variation on the theme that everyone has already mentioned - have MS help the developers develop for the WP platform. But not by giving them money; as many posters have already pointed out, this has been tried by MS but is continually rejected by devs as not cost effective due to the market share size. But what if, instead of offering them money to develop, MS offers them a DEVELOPER. They say to the developer: we'll send you a coder skilled in WP, we'll pay his salary, but he has to be dedicated to WP development, and we stop paying for him as soon as you publish a version 1.0 of your app. If you want to keep him after that it's up to you. If not, send him back to us and we'll send him on to the next guy. It's a win-win for everyone. He's a MS employee, helping to expand the brand. But he's also bringing in new customers to app developers at no risk to them.

    #2 is all about us: I'm an EV enthusiast. One of the smartest things that the EV enthusiast community did was to start spreading the word: NO PLUG - NO PURCHASE. To get their message across to the vehicle manufacturers that they were going to have to develop an electric car if they wanted to court our business. What do say we start the same thing with Windows Phone? NO WP APP - NO PURCHASE. But this goes all the way down to the smallest of companies. Any company who advertises they we can use their helpful app - but only on IOS or Android - the first thing we do is send them a (pre-written, fill-in-the-blanks) e-mail stating that we will no longer tolerate being ignored, and they if they intend to ignore us, we'll ignore them. No company who puts forth an IOS or Android app, without also including a WP app, will get ANY of our business. We may not be huge yet, but I think we're big enough to get some people's attention. Any progress is better than no progress.

    Bottom line - let's not stand around complaining that there aren't enough apps for our phones, let's do something about it.
    10-08-2013 05:32 PM
  17. jiovine's Avatar
    I want to propose 2 possible methods to attack the problem: One is a variation on the theme that everyone has already mentioned - have MS help the developers develop for the WP platform. But not by giving them money; as many posters have already pointed out, this has been tried by MS but is continually rejected by devs as not cost effective due to the market share size. But what if, instead of offering them money to develop, MS offers them a DEVELOPER. They say to the developer: we'll send you a coder skilled in WP, we'll pay his salary, but he has to be dedicated to WP development, and we stop paying for him as soon as you publish a version 1.0 of your app. If you want to keep him after that it's up to you. If not, send him back to us and we'll send him on to the next guy. It's a win-win for everyone. He's a MS employee, helping to expand the brand. But he's also bringing in new customers to app developers at no risk to them.
    I've worked in the reseller channel for the past 20 years for several large MFG's. We used this similar method to fund "bodies" within strategic partners to be product experts and help jump start sales. Very effective.

    One suggestion, it may be more cost effective to have a virtual pool of developers and project managers that would be available to the application partners to utilize. Place bodies at only high profile clients to accelerate development. Also, provide a larger royalty payout for the particular app or possibly provide "volume rebate" based on app download/usage statistics for developers.
    10-08-2013 10:07 PM
  18. Ek-Balam's Avatar
    Sigh. Again, as I've already said. Yes some companies this is perfect for them. However, strict policy is not catered for. Main one for my company would be Skydrive. Far as I know you cannot shut this off on WP currently. I'm not sure about other policies but I'm sure they'd want to shut off any social media stuff and access to webmail. Not sure if that's possible.

    Most large enterprises have very strict IT policies that WP doesn't cater for yet. Most will want to block what I've mentioned above. The only thing my work will allow for personal use is the WiFi and that's severely crippled. I'm not 100% certain what iOS or Android have as I haven't heard of any company adopting them. Most still use BB until something better comes along.
    I couldn't agree more! I am a BlackBerry refugee just because of my company's policies concerning these type security issues. Even Apple, as closed as system as it is, has made previsions for iOS devices (won't go there) to talk with BlackBerry Enterprise servers. My company fully supports MS Exchange and the Windows / Outlook environment, but still insists that all mobile email runs through BES.

    Further, company policy is that an employee's phone can NOT store or sync to the cloud (BES over the air or USB connection only). I have customers that will not allow shared NDA information to touch the cloud under penalty of breach. Very simply, Windows Phone is currently far from being IT / work use friendly let alone preferred by IT departments or working folks that don't want o have to carry both a work phone and a personal phone.

    The dearth of "business apps" that is the original topic of this thread, has a lot to do with the developer perception that, for what ever their reasoning, the Redmond Rangers have not as yet conceived nor implemented WP7/8 as a GSD (Getting S*** Done) tool....... but that's another rant.....
    10-08-2013 11:48 PM
  19. bilzkh's Avatar
    That's because of Nokia, not because of WP.
    No it's because WP seems to be picking up in India and other places, e.g. UK, where such corporate apps for WP do exist.

    US is a tough one given that the WP adoption rate is much lower, Canada is even rougher given that it's for all intents and purposes nil.
    10-09-2013 12:07 AM
  20. ag1986's Avatar

    #2 is all about us: I'm an EV enthusiast. One of the smartest things that the EV enthusiast community did was to start spreading the word: NO PLUG - NO PURCHASE. To get their message across to the vehicle manufacturers that they were going to have to develop an electric car if they wanted to court our business. What do say we start the same thing with Windows Phone? NO WP APP - NO PURCHASE. But this goes all the way down to the smallest of companies. Any company who advertises they we can use their helpful app - but only on IOS or Android - the first thing we do is send them a (pre-written, fill-in-the-blanks) e-mail stating that we will no longer tolerate being ignored, and they if they intend to ignore us, we'll ignore them. No company who puts forth an IOS or Android app, without also including a WP app, will get ANY of our business. We may not be huge yet, but I think we're big enough to get some people's attention. Any progress is better than no progress.

    Bottom line - let's not stand around complaining that there aren't enough apps for our phones, let's do something about it.
    Sure, all 10 million of you run right along. I'm sure the big boys will pay attention.
    10-09-2013 01:19 AM
  21. ag1986's Avatar
    No it's because WP seems to be picking up in India and other places, e.g. UK, where such corporate apps for WP do exist.

    US is a tough one given that the WP adoption rate is much lower, Canada is even rougher given that it's for all intents and purposes nil.
    Nokia as a brand has a lot of respect in India and some other geos. That, plus the cheap L520/1, was the only reason.
    10-09-2013 01:21 AM
  22. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    [TAB][/TAB]
    I want to propose 2 possible methods to attack the problem: One is a variation on the theme that everyone has already mentioned - have MS help the developers develop for the WP platform. But not by giving them money; as many posters have already pointed out, this has been tried by MS but is continually rejected by devs as not cost effective due to the market share size. But what if, instead of offering them money to develop, MS offers them a DEVELOPER. They say to the developer: we'll send you a coder skilled in WP, we'll pay his salary, but he has to be dedicated to WP development, and we stop paying for him as soon as you publish a version 1.0 of your app. If you want to keep him after that it's up to you. If not, send him back to us and we'll send him on to the next guy. It's a win-win for everyone. He's a MS employee, helping to expand the brand. But he's also bringing in new customers to app developers at no risk to them.
    I like this strategy. I can see potential issues with it but I think it's a good idea in general. It's all win for those involved. However I don't see this happening.

    I sort of ignored your second suggestion as there's simply not enough satisfied users of WP and not enough impact from the one who are. Once GDR3 comes out and if the features that appear to be coming show up I'll go from 80% satisfied to 90%. I'll then see what 8.1 brings. I could reach 99%.
    10-09-2013 02:20 AM
  23. WinFan1's Avatar
    For banks? You'd trust your banking information to a third-party app? :-O
    i think he was speaking in respect to most apps not all and especially not applications that manage your finances.
    10-09-2013 08:09 AM
  24. DexterG's Avatar
    I'm not a developer, but it goes beyond brand loyalty or getting money to develop it. While I believe money is a large issue, it's about *continuing* to make money. Consider this...

    If it were that easy to develop an app and all that was involved was getting your dev team to do so, companies like Pocket and Waze (and several others) certainly have the means to do so. So it's not the fact that they need the money to develop it. They want money to maintain and grow it. And that comes from market share.

    It's no secret that Microsoft is now 3rd on the charts not because they're making a thunderous headway, but because besides iOS and Android, who else is left? Blackberry is dead in the water waiting for a towline from someone. Sure, perhaps WP8 is gaining some attention and a bit of momentum lately, but there's still not enough market share. There's not *enough* people buying WP to make corporate companies want to develop and *maintain* for WP. If you had only 3 stocks you could invest in, would you invest in the bottom one?

    I, for one, like my L928. I can't say I love it. But I'm very happy with what MS is doing and I'm going to stick this baby out and see where the ride goes. But we need more interest in our OS if we expect corporate companies to develop for us. It's all about the long haul, not the initial investment.
    @Hydrated thanks for bringing this up. This spooks me too and I am sure, its the same with many other Lumia device owners if not all.

    Coming up to @gab1972 's point. I believe your opinion / research holds good with WP devices but don't you see how IOS and Android started? They had all the basic and necessary apps right from the beginning. I am not sure how MS takes the app store in their views. But this is more of a general idea to have corporate apps available when you are heading out to cover corporate market with their devices. And with the take over of Nokia entirely I am not sure how its gonna look like in the upcoming days.
    10-09-2013 08:53 AM
  25. Funky Cricket's Avatar
    Here is the thing really, how many of those apps are must haves? I live in the middle of no where, but I still have ATM everywhere for banking deposits, yah, I pay a buck or 3 if it's not my bank, but how much to you pay to switch carries/phones just to deposit a check. I don't need autotask app, I just go to web site, I don't need banking app to check funds, I just go to website, I set "use desktop website" and they all work like they do on my win8 laptop, zoom in, click with finger, away I go.


    and to the OP, you would be more correct in saying "consumer" apps. You want consumer apps for the products and services you consume (target coupons, banking, the crappy golf course out side of town whose owners kid made a bad IOS app of the web page). really, for 99% (deposits could be legitimate if there weren't ATMs near you...) of those apps you can just go to web page and be done, faster, easier and with more features.
    10-09-2013 09:54 AM
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