Lack of "corporate" apps is killing WP

[randymadden]

I don't want to sound contrite, but the fact that you're bringing this up now is a little like stating the obvious. I'm as much an evangelist for WP as anyone. I pretty never shut up about it. I've used Windows "phones" since before they were phones (remember the Pocket PC? Yep, that was me). I've had only MS mobile devices since 2000. But the point you're making IS the problem. It's pretty much the ONLY problem. And we've been saying it for years. Everyone I've ever talked to who uses the phone loves the OS. It's always been about the lack of apps.

I want to propose 2 possible methods to attack the problem: One is a variation on the theme that everyone has already mentioned - have MS help the developers develop for the WP platform. But not by giving them money; as many posters have already pointed out, this has been tried by MS but is continually rejected by devs as not cost effective due to the market share size. But what if, instead of offering them money to develop, MS offers them a DEVELOPER. They say to the developer: we'll send you a coder skilled in WP, we'll pay his salary, but he has to be dedicated to WP development, and we stop paying for him as soon as you publish a version 1.0 of your app. If you want to keep him after that it's up to you. If not, send him back to us and we'll send him on to the next guy. It's a win-win for everyone. He's a MS employee, helping to expand the brand. But he's also bringing in new customers to app developers at no risk to them.

#2 is all about us: I'm an EV enthusiast. One of the smartest things that the EV enthusiast community did was to start spreading the word: NO PLUG - NO PURCHASE. To get their message across to the vehicle manufacturers that they were going to have to develop an electric car if they wanted to court our business. What do say we start the same thing with Windows Phone? NO WP APP - NO PURCHASE. But this goes all the way down to the smallest of companies. Any company who advertises they we can use their helpful app - but only on IOS or Android - the first thing we do is send them a (pre-written, fill-in-the-blanks) e-mail stating that we will no longer tolerate being ignored, and they if they intend to ignore us, we'll ignore them. No company who puts forth an IOS or Android app, without also including a WP app, will get ANY of our business. We may not be huge yet, but I think we're big enough to get some people's attention. Any progress is better than no progress.

Bottom line - let's not stand around complaining that there aren't enough apps for our phones, let's do something about it.

 

[jiovine]

I want to propose 2 possible methods to attack the problem: One is a variation on the theme that everyone has already mentioned - have MS help the developers develop for the WP platform. But not by giving them money; as many posters have already pointed out, this has been tried by MS but is continually rejected by devs as not cost effective due to the market share size. But what if, instead of offering them money to develop, MS offers them a DEVELOPER. They say to the developer: we'll send you a coder skilled in WP, we'll pay his salary, but he has to be dedicated to WP development, and we stop paying for him as soon as you publish a version 1.0 of your app. If you want to keep him after that it's up to you. If not, send him back to us and we'll send him on to the next guy. It's a win-win for everyone. He's a MS employee, helping to expand the brand. But he's also bringing in new customers to app developers at no risk to them.

I've worked in the reseller channel for the past 20 years for several large MFG's. We used this similar method to fund "bodies" within strategic partners to be product experts and help jump start sales. Very effective.

One suggestion, it may be more cost effective to have a virtual pool of developers and project managers that would be available to the application partners to utilize. Place bodies at only high profile clients to accelerate development. Also, provide a larger royalty payout for the particular app or possibly provide "volume rebate" based on app download/usage statistics for developers.

 

[Ek-Balam]

Sigh. Again, as I've already said. Yes some companies this is perfect for them. However, strict policy is not catered for. Main one for my company would be Skydrive. Far as I know you cannot shut this off on WP currently. I'm not sure about other policies but I'm sure they'd want to shut off any social media stuff and access to webmail. Not sure if that's possible.

Most large enterprises have very strict IT policies that WP doesn't cater for yet. Most will want to block what I've mentioned above. The only thing my work will allow for personal use is the WiFi and that's severely crippled. I'm not 100% certain what iOS or Android have as I haven't heard of any company adopting them. Most still use BB until something better comes along.

I couldn't agree more! I am a BlackBerry refugee just because of my company's policies concerning these type security issues. Even Apple, as closed as system as it is, has made previsions for iOS devices (won't go there) to talk with BlackBerry Enterprise servers. My company fully supports MS Exchange and the Windows / Outlook environment, but still insists that all mobile email runs through BES.

Further, company policy is that an employee's phone can NOT store or sync to the cloud (BES over the air or USB connection only). I have customers that will not allow shared NDA information to touch the cloud under penalty of breach. Very simply, Windows Phone is currently far from being IT / work use friendly let alone preferred by IT departments or working folks that don't want o have to carry both a work phone and a personal phone.

The dearth of "business apps" that is the original topic of this thread, has a lot to do with the developer perception that, for what ever their reasoning, the Redmond Rangers have not as yet conceived nor implemented WP7/8 as a GSD (Getting S*** Done) tool....... but that's another rant.....

 

[bilzkh]

That's because of Nokia, not because of WP.

No it's because WP seems to be picking up in India and other places, e.g. UK, where such corporate apps for WP do exist.

US is a tough one given that the WP adoption rate is much lower, Canada is even rougher given that it's for all intents and purposes nil.

 

[ag1986]

#2 is all about us: I'm an EV enthusiast. One of the smartest things that the EV enthusiast community did was to start spreading the word: NO PLUG - NO PURCHASE. To get their message across to the vehicle manufacturers that they were going to have to develop an electric car if they wanted to court our business. What do say we start the same thing with Windows Phone? NO WP APP - NO PURCHASE. But this goes all the way down to the smallest of companies. Any company who advertises they we can use their helpful app - but only on IOS or Android - the first thing we do is send them a (pre-written, fill-in-the-blanks) e-mail stating that we will no longer tolerate being ignored, and they if they intend to ignore us, we'll ignore them. No company who puts forth an IOS or Android app, without also including a WP app, will get ANY of our business. We may not be huge yet, but I think we're big enough to get some people's attention. Any progress is better than no progress.

Bottom line - let's not stand around complaining that there aren't enough apps for our phones, let's do something about it.

Sure, all 10 million of you run right along. I'm sure the big boys will pay attention.

 

[ag1986]

No it's because WP seems to be picking up in India and other places, e.g. UK, where such corporate apps for WP do exist.

US is a tough one given that the WP adoption rate is much lower, Canada is even rougher given that it's for all intents and purposes nil.

Nokia as a brand has a lot of respect in India and some other geos. That, plus the cheap L520/1, was the only reason.

 

[N_LaRUE]

[TAB][/TAB]
I want to propose 2 possible methods to attack the problem: One is a variation on the theme that everyone has already mentioned - have MS help the developers develop for the WP platform. But not by giving them money; as many posters have already pointed out, this has been tried by MS but is continually rejected by devs as not cost effective due to the market share size. But what if, instead of offering them money to develop, MS offers them a DEVELOPER. They say to the developer: we'll send you a coder skilled in WP, we'll pay his salary, but he has to be dedicated to WP development, and we stop paying for him as soon as you publish a version 1.0 of your app. If you want to keep him after that it's up to you. If not, send him back to us and we'll send him on to the next guy. It's a win-win for everyone. He's a MS employee, helping to expand the brand. But he's also bringing in new customers to app developers at no risk to them.

I like this strategy. I can see potential issues with it but I think it's a good idea in general. It's all win for those involved. However I don't see this happening.

I sort of ignored your second suggestion as there's simply not enough satisfied users of WP and not enough impact from the one who are. Once GDR3 comes out and if the features that appear to be coming show up I'll go from 80% satisfied to 90%. I'll then see what 8.1 brings. I could reach 99%.

 

[WinFan1]

For banks? You'd trust your banking information to a third-party app? :-O

i think he was speaking in respect to most apps not all and especially not applications that manage your finances.

 

[DexterG]

I'm not a developer, but it goes beyond brand loyalty or getting money to develop it. While I believe money is a large issue, it's about *continuing* to make money. Consider this...

If it were that easy to develop an app and all that was involved was getting your dev team to do so, companies like Pocket and Waze (and several others) certainly have the means to do so. So it's not the fact that they need the money to develop it. They want money to maintain and grow it. And that comes from market share.

It's no secret that Microsoft is now 3rd on the charts not because they're making a thunderous headway, but because besides iOS and Android, who else is left? Blackberry is dead in the water waiting for a towline from someone. Sure, perhaps WP8 is gaining some attention and a bit of momentum lately, but there's still not enough market share. There's not *enough* people buying WP to make corporate companies want to develop and *maintain* for WP. If you had only 3 stocks you could invest in, would you invest in the bottom one?

I, for one, like my L928. I can't say I love it. But I'm very happy with what MS is doing and I'm going to stick this baby out and see where the ride goes. But we need more interest in our OS if we expect corporate companies to develop for us. It's all about the long haul, not the initial investment.

@Hydrated thanks for bringing this up. This spooks me too and I am sure, its the same with many other Lumia device owners if not all.

Coming up to @gab1972 's point. I believe your opinion / research holds good with WP devices but don't you see how IOS and Android started? They had all the basic and necessary apps right from the beginning. I am not sure how MS takes the app store in their views. But this is more of a general idea to have corporate apps available when you are heading out to cover corporate market with their devices. And with the take over of Nokia entirely I am not sure how its gonna look like in the upcoming days.

 

[Funky Cricket]

Here is the thing really, how many of those apps are must haves? I live in the middle of no where, but I still have ATM everywhere for banking deposits, yah, I pay a buck or 3 if it's not my bank, but how much to you pay to switch carries/phones just to deposit a check. I don't need autotask app, I just go to web site, I don't need banking app to check funds, I just go to website, I set "use desktop website" and they all work like they do on my win8 laptop, zoom in, click with finger, away I go.


and to the OP, you would be more correct in saying "consumer" apps. You want consumer apps for the products and services you consume (target coupons, banking, the crappy golf course out side of town whose owners kid made a bad IOS app of the web page). really, for 99% (deposits could be legitimate if there weren't ATMs near you...) of those apps you can just go to web page and be done, faster, easier and with more features.

 

[gab1972]

I believe your opinion / research holds good with WP devices but don't you see how IOS and Android started? They had all the basic and necessary apps right from the beginning. I am not sure how MS takes the app store in their views. But this is more of a general idea to have corporate apps available when you are heading out to cover corporate market with their devices. And with the take over of Nokia entirely I am not sure how its gonna look like in the upcoming days.

I'll see your point and raise you a valid excuse. Consider this...

The first iPhone was released June 2007. The first Android (the G1) was released October 2008. Two completely revolutionary OS's starting out with no one before them. So of course, every corporate business minded financial and marketing officer are going to jump on the app market bandwagon. They have/had to.

The first Windows phone came about November 2010. A full 2 years after Android and 3 1/2 years after iOS. By this time (if you negate Blackberry altogether), every smart phone user either had an iPhone or an Android phone. There were already around several years before Windows decided to jump into the mix. And because iPhone is so easy to use with everything right on several screens, and Android easily customizeable and a nice alternative to iPhone...Windows was already in the hole. Besides a fresh UI (which you can easily emulate on Android with an app), Windows didn't really bring anything revolutionary to the table (and I say that with the utmost respect). So with 2 already successful OS's, why would businesses rush to invest in a new OS that hasn't really established itself as a power house? Again, I'm going off of current statistics here.

What should have happened, is Windows needed to get in the game as quickly as possible right behind Android or before. That way they'd have been established already and companies would include them. Instead, WP is seen as a late comer trying to cash in on the successes of two other OS's. Amazon is already trying their hand. Lucky for them, Amazon is so popular and the Kindle Fire is one of the hottest tablets right now and they use the Android market, they could actually work. But do you call it an Amazon phone? Or an Android phone since it uses Android as a base? But I digress...

So, yes, basic apps are needed in the beginning, but unfortunately, there's no bill to rights that every new OS is granted basic corporate apps. Since iOS and Android came along, every newcomer has to prove themselves. Which is where we are. So MS needs to make Windows Blue (and GDR3) as interesting as possible in order to sell more units in order to get more attention from corporate companies.

 

[Bartdog]

Quit whining about it and do something about it. Bang on the businesses you want to give us apps on twitter and facebook. Every time some company provides thier sales force with WP or surface I tweet the article with @square because I think that's a big one. Every time a local radio/tv station/other business creates an "app" that is really a glorified view of their web site, I go on facebook and/or twitter and ask when the WP version is coming.

If you don't ask for it, people, you won't get it. Join the movement #winphan

 

[hopmedic]

I'll see your point and raise you a valid excuse. Consider this...

The first iPhone was released June 2007. The first Android (the G1) was released October 2008. Two completely revolutionary OS's starting out with no one before them. So of course, every corporate business minded financial and marketing officer are going to jump on the app market bandwagon. They have/had to.

The first Windows phone came about November 2010. A full 2 years after Android and 3 1/2 years after iOS. By this time (if you negate Blackberry altogether), every smart phone user either had an iPhone or an Android phone. There were already around several years before Windows decided to jump into the mix. And because iPhone is so easy to use with everything right on several screens, and Android easily customizeable and a nice alternative to iPhone...Windows was already in the hole. Besides a fresh UI (which you can easily emulate on Android with an app), Windows didn't really bring anything revolutionary to the table (and I say that with the utmost respect). So with 2 already successful OS's, why would businesses rush to invest in a new OS that hasn't really established itself as a power house? Again, I'm going off of current statistics here.

A couple of notes to add. First, iPhone couldn't even run apps until something like a year later, because Apple didn't think apps were necessary. So they really didn't get much of a jump on Android from that perspective. Also, many of us had been using Windows Mobile, Blackberry (I'd used both), Palm, and others, before iPhone came out. But what Apple did was get it right - as they have done so many times in the past. They took something that was only used by us geeks, and made it consumer friendly. But they (and Android) did so, as you said, 2-3 years ahead of Microsoft. Oh - one correction - The first Windows Phones were launched on October 21 (my birthday, so I remember), 2010 (I was already in love as I'd seen a prototype that spring when a developer evangelist demonstrated it at the Visual Studio 2010 launch event). They didn't launch in the US until November, though.

What should have happened, is Windows needed to get in the game as quickly as possible right behind Android or before. That way they'd have been established already and companies would include them. Instead, WP is seen as a late comer trying to cash in on the successes of two other OS's. Amazon is already trying their hand. Lucky for them, Amazon is so popular and the Kindle Fire is one of the hottest tablets right now and they use the Android market, they could actually work. But do you call it an Amazon phone? Or an Android phone since it uses Android as a base? But I digress...

So, yes, basic apps are needed in the beginning, but unfortunately, there's no bill to rights that every new OS is granted basic corporate apps. Since iOS and Android came along, every newcomer has to prove themselves. Which is where we are. So MS needs to make Windows Blue (and GDR3) as interesting as possible in order to sell more units in order to get more attention from corporate companies.

And yes, while basic apps are needed in the beginning, ALL of these phones started at zero. The problem is that the two year head start of the other two OS app stores resulted in a huge lead. I don't know if it is still on track, but the last time I heard stats (it's been a while), the Windows Phone store was growing at a rate equal to iOS and ahead of Android, at that point in those stores' ages. I hope it is still keeping that momentum, but I haven't heard the stats in a while, and finding them is a challenge.

 

[SocalTouch]

Can we all add our signature to the petition to bring Instagram to Windows Phone at http://www.change.org/petitions/ins...tm_medium=url_share&utm_source=share_petition

They need to get 15,000 signatures and only about 100 signature short of the target!

While you are at it, Why not add a reply to bring official Target Cartwheel app to WP as well - Windows Phone App!

 

[gab1972]

Can we all add our signature to the petition to bring Instagram to Windows Phone at http://www.change.org/petitions/ins...tm_medium=url_share&utm_source=share_petition

They need to get 15,000 signatures and only about 100 signature short of the target!

While you are at it, Why not add a reply to bring official Target Cartwheel app to WP as well - Windows Phone App!

There needs to be a blanket "We want this..." petition for Windows Phone. Because I want Simple Bank, Waze, Official Pocket, BB&T Bank....the list goes on.

I'll also use this time to reinforce my earlier point on why we don't have mainstream apps. If this is legit, notice how Instagram wants 15,000 signatures? See, it's not that they don't have the resources to develop a WP app, they want to know that there are is enough market share for it.

And like @hopmedic stated, at least WP is on par with Apple's initial growth rate.

 

[hopmedic]

@SocialTouch, I clicked it, and learned that I've already signed that petition. :wink: I'd like to get support for a petition that I just created, to get the USAA app back to Windows Phone. Please, everyone, sign this petition. There are many of us that are veterans and used to use this app when we had WP7 devices, and would like the app back.
https://www.change.org/p/usaa-bank-re-publish-windows-phone-app-to-windows-phone-8

Thank you.

 

[gab1972]

@SocialTouch, I clicked it, and learned that I've already signed that petition. :wink: I'd like to get support for a petition that I just created, to get the USAA app back to Windows Phone. Please, everyone, sign this petition. There are many of us that are veterans and used to use this app when we had WP7 devices, and would like the app back.
https://www.change.org/p/usaa-bank-re-publish-windows-phone-app-to-windows-phone-8

Thank you.

I'm totally supporting this! As a former Marine, I'd love to see USAA with a WP app. I might actually use them instead of Simple for my "all other purchases" account.

 

[hopmedic]

I'm totally supporting this! As a former Marine, I'd love to see USAA with a WP app. I might actually use them instead of Simple for my "all other purchases" account.

I thought there was no such thing as a former Marine??? I was USN, so I can use the "former" word! :wink:

 

[Hydrated]

I am sorry but I have to take this sort of post with a grain of salt. First, none of the apps you mention are corporate - they are definitively consumer. Second, the largest US banks do have apps (B of A, Chase, and Wells Fargo) as do quite a few major retailers. According to your profile you are in the US. Third, so your friends have bought phones within the year on your "evangelization" and then dumped them within months? I guess they either like paying substantial penalties or buy pricey phones off contract. Either way, why would someone jump on a platform without assurance it meets their needs? Finally, you actually mention Pandora before jumping to the "corporate" comment and the official WP 8 Pandora app is not only available (and has been for a long time) but has been noted as having nice WP 8 perks not available on the other platforms. Yes, there is a need for more apps in certain areas, which is something that improves daily, but I really have to be skeptical when someone calls him or herself an "evangelist" but has also said elsewhere said they bought the phone "on a lark" and have single digit posts on this site.

Yep. I'm pretty hurt that someone on the Interwebz doesn't believe me.

I have been an ATT premier customer for many years, and they treat me well. I spend a lot of cash with ATT because I have all of my business lines with them, and they go to great lengths to make me happy. So upgrades aren't really a factor for me, you see. My associates and family rarely PAY for hardware or upgrades.

I apologize for my low post count. I find that I normally learn more by listening. Maybe i should go post a bunch of pointless crap and earn some cred.

 

[Hydrated]

I'm totally supporting this! As a former Marine, I'd love to see USAA with a WP app. I might actually use them instead of Simple for my "all other purchases" account.

USAA is one of the apps that I'm missing... one of those that I called "corporate apps".

I talked to person after person until I got to one of their development guys. He told me that they're working on a WP8 port of their old WP7 one. They had problems with it that have set them back, and asked that I be patient.