1. lovenokia's Avatar
    Multitasking on wp8 gdr3 is amazing, in the past I would never close apps, but now I can keep only the apps that I what open. The problem is a new app is opened when messaging is running, I wish only one dialer or messaging app would run a at a time. I want there to he no limit, but 8 apps in wp8 is still not enough. I hope it will increase to 15 in wp8.1 I preordered a Lumia 1520, and I hope ms will utilize the 2 GB of ram with WP 8.1. Anyone else think the multitasking is gimped? I also find it frustrating that not every app instantly resumes itself from the start screen. Ms should enable this as default for all apps.
    xandros9 likes this.
    11-17-2013 11:10 PM
  2. mase123987's Avatar
    I have to agree with the messaging. I found it very annoying to have a few messaging windows open in the multi-tasking menu.
    11-18-2013 12:13 AM
  3. geoghotas's Avatar
    I also appericiate that the GDR3 is little bittle good updates for WP users but its not a major or big updates for wp we need more aggressive updates i watched the video wp8.1 blue cortana updates which are coming in 2014 thats good look like major changing updates. its new WP OS in the Markete few years ago launched wait and watch it ill be on higher level. The current level of WP OS is crossing IOS Apple & Android. I hope so it ill be crossed in the year of 2014.
    11-18-2013 05:00 AM
  4. taymur's Avatar
    the sad part about WP8 is that its not user friendly anymore, i dont know how many of you noticed this, but the "back" button used to take you back in a timeline of your app usage, back in the days when clicking an app from the home screen will let it start from the beginning.

    then some Dev. created the fast resume thing, which distroyed the way WP8 operates, now when you hit "back" you dont actually go back in whatsapp per say, but you go UP. which is very sad.I remember the fast switching was amazing, "I'm playing a game, someone texts me on Whatsapp, i click the notification, woop I'm talking to the guy. click back woop you get back to your game just where you left it" THAT WAS AMAAAZING!!! and they screwed it up!!!

    Same scenario today "I'm playing a game, someone texts me on Whatsapp, i click the notification, i wait for resume, I'm talking to the guy. click back, you go up to chats, click back again, you get out of the app to a place you are lucky if it was your game just where you left it" THAT IS NOT AMAAAZING!!!

    Anyone agrees with this strange behavior?
    11-18-2013 07:18 AM
  5. link68759's Avatar
    the sad part about WP8 is that its not user friendly anymore, i dont know how many of you noticed this, but the "back" button used to take you back in a timeline of your app usage, back in the days when clicking an app from the home screen will let it start from the beginning.

    then some Dev. created the fast resume thing, which distroyed the way WP8 operates, now when you hit "back" you dont actually go back in whatsapp per say, but you go UP. which is very sad.I remember the fast switching was amazing, "I'm playing a game, someone texts me on Whatsapp, i click the notification, woop I'm talking to the guy. click back woop you get back to your game just where you left it" THAT WAS AMAAAZING!!! and they screwed it up!!!

    Same scenario today "I'm playing a game, someone texts me on Whatsapp, i click the notification, i wait for resume, I'm talking to the guy. click back, you go up to chats, click back again, you get out of the app to a place you are lucky if it was your game just where you left it" THAT IS NOT AMAAAZING!!!

    Anyone agrees with this strange behavior?
    that is the standard behavior for most apps. Whatsapp is just stupid.
    11-18-2013 07:40 AM
  6. Ezhik's Avatar
    Windows Phone 8.1 needs a lot of things. A LOT. Like proper Office, proper multitasking, proper phablet support, proper notifications center, proper Internet Explorer with a proper back/forwards button...
    Ek-Balam, david90531 and xandros9 like this.
    11-18-2013 09:54 AM
  7. mase123987's Avatar
    Windows Phone 8.1 needs a lot of things. A LOT. Like proper Office, proper multitasking, proper phablet support, proper notifications center, proper Internet Explorer with a proper back/forwards button...
    What is your idea of proper Office?
    11-18-2013 11:14 AM
  8. Ezhik's Avatar
    What is your idea of proper Office?
    The ability to center text, change the font, and create a bulleted list in Word and the ability to create notebooks in OneNote would be a start.
    11-18-2013 11:41 AM
  9. Lumis90's Avatar
    What is your idea of proper Office?
    They should add ability to create new slides or add them while you're on your phone.
    11-18-2013 11:45 AM
  10. mase123987's Avatar
    The ability to center text, change the font, and create a bulleted list in Word and the ability to create notebooks in OneNote would be a start.
    I can understand most of that. I just want to make sure they never over do it. Personally, I just want all Office documents to appear exactly as they would on a computer.
    Moiz Mian and xandros9 like this.
    11-18-2013 11:48 AM
  11. a5cent's Avatar
    [INFO]
    Multi-tasking refers to how hardware resources are split and shared between multiple, simultaneously running tasks/app, and how the OS grants access to those resources, e.g. by restricting background processing to controlled time slots (a.k.a. scheduling). This thread is not about that, so it's not at all about multi-tasking. The issues raised by the OP are all related to task management, i.e. app lifecycle management (when are apps launched, suspended and killed?) and navigation between apps. Not that it's hard to infer what is actually meant, but I thought I'd mention this for the benefit of those interested in technical correctness.
    [/INFO]
    Anyway, I otherwise completely agree with the OP and others. Task management and navigation in WP is a complete mess. As stated in many threads, the fundamental problem is that WP has just one back button for two different functions:
    • return to previous app
    • return to previous page within app

    Particularly after using the task switcher to return to any already open app, lets say IE, the OS has no way of deducing what a user's true intention is when they press the back button again:
    • does the user want to navigate back to a previous web page?
    • does the user want to exit IE and return to the app they were in before switching?

    Currently, IE assumes the later, when the user may have wanted the former. WhatsApp does the opposite. The only way to navigate back a page in IE is to spam the back button, potentially dozens of times, skipping back through X apps, until you return to the point where you initially navigated away from IE for the first time. Only then can you can you start navigating backward from web page to web page. However, if you then want to leave IE and return to the app you were in prior to IE, you're back to spamming the back-button, again potentially dozens of times. Worst of all, instead of fixing the fundamental problem, MS just gave us a close-button. This is just a work around, and does nothing to actually fix what is wrong. The inconsistent behaviour creeping in right and left isn't helping either (the already mentioned WhatsApp that behaves differently, the fast-resume feature that only works some of the time, etc. ... it's as if MS themselves don't know how WP is intended to work). :-/
    Last edited by a5cent; 12-11-2013 at 04:52 PM. Reason: Formatting + Spelling
    In Limbo likes this.
    11-18-2013 01:05 PM
  12. hopmedic's Avatar
    The navigation "mess" (and yes, there's a mess) that you're referring to with apps that don't do what you'd expect when you use the back button is mostly the fault of developers. If more of them would read Microsoft's Peter Torr's advice from two years ago, we wouldn't have this problem.
    Back means back. Not forwards, not sideways, but back - Peter Torr's Blog - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

    But yes, I agree that IE's handling of the back button is a mess.
    a5cent likes this.
    11-18-2013 01:11 PM
  13. manicottiK's Avatar
    IE's behavior aside, an issue was created by the long-press of the back key and with fast-app-resume. In the new world, each app has its own back stack and the OS has a stack of these stacks. When a user "starts" (from the start screen) an app that's already in memory or when a user task switches to the app, the OS moves the app's entire back stack to the top of the list.

    The issue is even more confusing if the app allows specific pages to be pinned and if the user then uses one of those tiles to "launch" an app that's already in memory. In such a case, the app's stack is moved to the top of the list and then the page of the tile is pushed onto the stack. Pressing the back button doesn't return the user to the Start screen or the previous app, but to the previous page in the running app. Worse yet, there's no good way to ask a user if they wanted to resume or restart when an app is "launched" again. Ugh.
    a5cent and Ek-Balam like this.
    11-18-2013 01:30 PM
  14. link68759's Avatar
    I agree that the back button could be better implemented, but I have different ideas. In certain apps I do find myself spamming back to close them (not quite used to gdr3 x yet). But IE handles right imo.

    This is how Wp is set up: at home, back is for fast switching, otherwise the default behavior is killing. If you navigate within an app, back goes back a page, and holding back task switches. This is an easy concept to get used to, provided general apps have an easily recognizable "base" page and aren't poorly designed (creates an endless number of sublevels instead of horizontal pages). When you see the "base" you instinctively know not to press back or you kill the app, and a good app never has more than one or two sub levels.

    Here's the change I would add: allow multiple pages of apps to be shown in task switcher like messaging and IE can, except each page would scroll vertically so as not to extend the task switcher forever in the horizontal direction. Whatsapp would ideally treat each chat as a "base" page, thus exiting the app when you press back, thus allowing better fast resume to the previous app when you got your toast notification.

    Why I think IE is fine as is: there is no defined "base" page, nor should there be. It does the most logical thing- reserve the back button for multi tasking, unless you navigate to a "sub page" (forward). This is keeping with every other app...how is this confusing or bad? If you think this default behavior is bad, then you think every app is confusing and bad. When I switch to IE, I know the back button will take me back to the last task, just like it does for *every other app*. I find the "recent" page to be more than adequate for looking at past visited pages.

    IE is acting funky though when I back into it from home. It doesn't reset the "base" page and allows me to back. Also, if I play around with tabs without even switching away, I can repeatedly get the back button to not work at all. Hmmmm?

    Anyhow I like this setup better than desktop 8. I can never figure out what app is going to pop out of the left to right swipe... Its just random.
    11-18-2013 02:27 PM
  15. a5cent's Avatar
    IE's behavior aside, an issue was created by the long-press of the back key and with fast-app-resume.
    I don't consider these to be separate issues. It's all related to WP's handling of the back-stack and how various user interactions stack and unstack it. Ultimately, it's all related, and IMO a comprehensive solution will require rethinking the whole shebang, not just parts of it...
    11-18-2013 05:50 PM
  16. a5cent's Avatar
    The navigation "mess" (and yes, there's a mess) that you're referring to with apps that don't do what you'd expect when you use the back button is mostly the fault of developers. If more of them would read Microsoft's Peter Torr's advice from two years ago...
    I agree with you in principle, but I don't think that is a realistic approach. Expecting all developers to read and stick to Peter Torr's advice (or anyone's advice) has never worked in the history of software development. It never will. If something isn't technically enforced, there will always be a good percentage of developers that either don't know the rules, or think that their specific use-case warrants exceptions. Worse, even if that was realistic, I still don't think it would get WP to where it needs to be.

    Peter Torr starts his article by stating the following:

    The most critical point to remember is that “back means back”
    IMHO that is already wrong. The fundamental problem I tried to outline using IE, was that the meaning of "back" varies depending on context, and that the meaning of "back" in any given context may not match the user's actual intent. IE is well suited to illustrating the problem because it's extreme, but the exact same issue exists for any app. If I'm using amazon's shopping app, and I navigate back to it using the task switcher, I'm then stuck in the exact same situation... "back" then means back to the previous app, and not back in the list of merchandise I was previously browsing... which is what I may want.

    The affects of fast resume (as described by manicottiK) complicate the issue further, not to mention the apps that simply behave incorrectly (the ones not taking Peter Torr's advice), or those apps where it isn't entirely obvious if pressing the back button will exit the app or not (those apps that lack a rigidly defined main page).

    Keeping things simple is great, but WP's approach is taking that ideal too far... there is just too much functionality linked to a single type of user interaction (pressing the back button). In their quest for the simplest possible user interaction, MS has sacrificed too much consistency.
    Ek-Balam and psudotechzealot like this.
    11-18-2013 05:52 PM
  17. link68759's Avatar
    I agree with you in principle, but I don't think that is a realistic approach. Expecting all developers to read and stick to Peter Torr's advice (or anyone's advice) has never worked in the history of software development. It never will. If something isn't technically enforced, there will always be a good percentage of developers that either don't know the rules, or think that their specific use-case warrants exceptions. Worse, even if that was realistic, I still don't think it would get WP to where it needs to be.

    Peter Torr starts his article by stating the following:



    IMHO that is already wrong. The fundamental problem I tried to outline using IE, was that the meaning of "back" varies depending on context, and that the meaning of "back" in any given context may not match the user's actual intent. IE is well suited to illustrating the problem because it's extreme, but the exact same issue exists for any app. If I'm using amazon's shopping app, and I navigate back to it using the task switcher, I'm then stuck in the exact same situation... "back" then means back to the previous app, and not back in the list of merchandise I was previously browsing... which is what I may want.

    The affects of fast resume (as described by manicottiK) complicate the issue further, not to mention the apps that simply behave incorrectly (the ones not taking Peter Torr's advice), or those apps where it isn't entirely obvious if pressing the back button will exit the app or not (those apps that lack a rigidly defined main page).

    Keeping things simple is great, but WP's approach is taking that ideal too far... there is just too much functionality linked to a single type of user interaction (pressing the back button). In their quest for the simplest possible user interaction, MS has sacrificed too much consistency.

    Well there was an article about getting rid of the back button altogether and adding some UI back button... which could bring about good changes. Or terrible ones.
    Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express Pro
    11-20-2013 02:56 PM
  18. unstoppablekem's Avatar
    I am disappointed that it is an X, versus something like Windows 8 has.
    11-20-2013 02:58 PM
  19. E Lizzle's Avatar
    What is your idea of proper Office?
    Ability to add a row or column in Excel?
    11-20-2013 03:18 PM
  20. a5cent's Avatar
    Well there was an article about getting rid of the back button altogether and adding some UI back button... which could bring about good changes. Or terrible ones.
    Yes, that will be very interesting indeed. I have no idea if that is directly related to the issues mentioned (or if that is just about lowering manufacturing costs), but it could be.
    11-20-2013 04:21 PM
  21. Roderick Aspiras's Avatar
    Dude then its not a phone that you need rather a PC and a Nokia 3310.

    Windows Phone 8.1 needs a lot of things. A LOT. Like proper Office, proper multitasking, proper phablet support, proper notifications center, proper Internet Explorer with a proper back/forwards button...
    hopmedic likes this.
    01-17-2014 07:59 AM

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