Help settle a little debate update the 'Black' update.

[Jupast]

...basically, is GDR3 considered part of the Black update? I don't think it is, however i'm also not positive about that. But someone on Youtube is showing GDR3 features and saying they're part of Black, to which he says...

"Lumia Black update = GDR3 + Nokia Firmware. That's how updates are rolled out. MS sends GDR3 (OS update) to Nokia and Nokia releases the final thing".

I get that one needs the other, but i don't consider that all as 'Black'. Is that correct?

 

[Mr Lebowski]

Yes if you got Lumia Black it also has GDR3 so it's part of the Lumia Black update, but GDR3 doesn't need Black firmware to function
because I and many have GDR3 but no Lumia "Black" firmware, but I don't know if Black is depended on GDR3 to work correctly. But that's how it works.
When Nokia rolls out Lumia firmware updates it includes updated OS. Just like Lumia Amber update included GDR2 so as Lumia Black is both OS and firmware. There is no Black only.
And the GDR3 wasn't the "final thing" as far as GDR3 when it was first released, but it was the full OS at the time but it was updated over a month
ago, and that full monty GDR3 is in Lumia Black.

 

[Jupast]

Fair enough. I'd still consider them separate feature sets myself, bundled or not, but oh well.

 

[Slim Makay]

I don't care if the GDR3 & Lumia Black are separate or the same... I JUST NEED THEM.....

 

[Jas00555]

They are separate. One needs the other, but they're still different things.

 

[Jupast]

They are separate. One needs the other, but they're still different things.

Exactly my point to the 'expert' with the video on YouTube, but y'know how YouTube debates get.

 

[Mr Lebowski]

Fair enough. I'd still consider them separate feature sets myself, bundled or not, but oh well.

Thanks

You can consider whatever you like, but that doesn't make it factual, the moon isn't made of cheese either :wink: but LUMIA BLACK has both OS and Firmware updates and Update 3 ( GDR3) only has OS updates if you have it thru the Developers program.
Update 3 can and is a stand alone update (of course it works "in relationship" the firmware already there) because that's all my phone has, no Black.
and it does just fine without Black. Will the firmware part of Lumia Black work without Update 3 ? you can't just get the firmware updates
if your phone has Lumia Black, it has both OS and Firmware. :smile: so...who knows.

 

[Jas00555]

You can consider whatever you like :wink: but LUMIA BLACK has both OS and Firmware updates and Update 3 ( GDR3) only has OS updates if you have it thru the
Developers program.
And Update 3 can and is a stand alone. Does the firmware part of Lumia Black stand alone? no ones knows because you can't just get the firmware updates
if your phone has Lumia Black, it has both OS and Firmware. :smile:

no, Lumia Black is the firmware while Update 3 is the OS. They're not bundled.. Remember how every AT&T 920 user kept screaming how they wanted GDR2 + Amber? They're different.

 

[Mr Lebowski]

no, Lumia Black is the firmware while Update 3 is the OS. They're not bundled.. Remember how every AT&T 920 user kept screaming how they wanted GDR2 + Amber? They're different.

They are bundled like when you get a Bundled package thru TWC, you get phone, internet and cable TV and you can get them separate. But you can't
just get the firmware part of Lumia Black because Lumia Black is a bundled update with both the OS ( Update 3) and Nokia firmware update.
Bundled mean they come in the same package it doesn't mean the one can't function without the other. But you can't just get the Nokia firmware
but you can get just the OS.
And AT&T didn't send out GDR2 separate from Amber, Amber Update has both the Nokia firmware & MS OS GDR2 bundled together.
Both AMBER and BLACK have both Microsoft's OS updates and Nokia firmware updates, can't get just the firmware part of BLACK OR AMBER those updates include both.
And some uninformed 920 owners thought you could get one or the other but you can't.
With Amber like Black you get both OS and firmware bundled in one OTA update.
Update 3 you can get alone thru the Developers program.

 

[Jas00555]

They are bundled like when you get a Bundled package thru TWC, you get phone, internet and cable TV and you can get them separate. But you can't
just get the firmware part of Lumia Black because Lumia Black is a bundled update with both the OS ( Update 3) and Nokia firmware update.
Bundled mean they come in the same package it doesn't mean the one can't function without the other. But you can't just get the Nokia firmware
but you can get just the OS.
And AT&T didn't send out GDR2 separate from Amber, Amber Update has both the Nokia firmware & MS OS GDR2 bundled together.
Both AMBER and BLACK have both Microsoft's OS updates and Nokia firmware updates, can't get just the firmware part of BLACK OR AMBER those updates include both.
And some uninformed 920 owners thought you could get one or the other but you can't. With Amber like Black you get both OS and firmware bundled in one OTA update.
Update 3 you can get alone thru the Developers program.

just because you can't get the firmware without the OS doesn't mean Black is the entire bundle. It just means that it won't work without it. To use your TWC analogy, if you had to get telephone service when you bought TV, that wouldn't make the TV and telephone service the same thing. Another way to put it is that when you're building a house, you need the foundation to build upon, but the entire house is not the foundation just because you need one to get the other.

 

[Mr Lebowski]

just because you can't get the firmware without the OS doesn't mean Black is the entire bundle. It just means that it won't work without it. To use your TWC analogy, if you had to get telephone service when you bought TV, that wouldn't make the TV and telephone service the same thing. Another way to put it is that when you're building a house, you need the foundation to build upon, but the entire house is not the foundation just because you need one to get the other.

LUMIA BLACK IS the entire bundle. That's how it comes, Lumia Black is not just the firmware it is both firmware and OS - PERIOD.
There is no Lumia Black without GDR3. If there was it wouldn't be call Lumia Black it would called something else/
Have a nice evening. I'm done with this silliness. :wink:

 

[mrvhin1216]

i don't care if the gdr3 & lumia black are separate or the same... I just need them.....

This!

 

[shmsnh]

Why is this even up for debate? Update 3 is the OS update. Lumia Black is Update 3 with Nokia's firmware. You can get the Update 3 preview by itself, like many have. If you install Lumia Black, you will get both, Update 3 and the firmware.

 

[hopmedic]

You can consider whatever you like, but that doesn't make it factual, the moon isn't made of cheese either :wink: but LUMIA BLACK has both OS and Firmware updates and Update 3 ( GDR3) only has OS updates if you have it thru the Developers program.
Update 3 can and is a stand alone update (of course it works "in relationship" the firmware already there) because that's all my phone has, no Black.
and it does just fine without Black. Will the firmware part of Lumia Black work without Update 3 ? you can't just get the firmware updates
if your phone has Lumia Black, it has both OS and Firmware. :smile: so...who knows.

No.

But if it really matters.....

GDR3 and Update 3 are the same thing. This is the OS updates by Microsoft.

Black is Nokia's name for the update that we've called Bittersweet Shimmer (Nokia's codename for this update) in the past. It is Nokia's update. It can contain firmware, software, and even additional updates to the OS, all created by Nokia. It does not contain GDR3/Update 3. It just happens to come at the same time, in the case of people who haven't already installed GDR3 using the Preview for Developers app.

FWIW Samsung, HTC, and others have equivalents to Black, but we don't hear about them because apparently there aren't leakers there, so we don't hear the codenames (if they have any), and they also don't publicize them like Nokia does. What we hear about are build numbers. But every time one of those phones gets an update that isn't from Microsoft, it's basically the same thing as Nokia putting out Black (or amber, blue, whatever may be coming).

Fact: Black and GDR3 are two separate updates, from separate entities, that happen to come at the same time.

 

[Jupast]

Lordy, this has turned into a debate about a debate lol.

hopmedic has settled it as far as i'm concerned. A bundled package does not equal features of one set being classed as features of the other, which was what the Youtube video was trying to suggest.

Now we can all move on from update debates and considering what substance the Moon is made of.

 

[Mr Lebowski]

And they both just happen to come at the very exact time in ONE update, bundled in one neat OTA package.
What are the odds of that ?

The moon is made of cheesecake -which is part cheese, eggs ( not cheese) sugar ( not cheese) vanilla ( not cheese) and then a crust
all bundled together to make the MOON made of cheesecake, not the same as Lumia Black but bundled like Lumia Black.

 

[Jas00555]

And they both just happen to come at the very exact time in ONE update, bundled in one neat OTA package.
What are the odds of that ?

That's because one needs the other to function. TV needs electricity to work, but you don't consider the electricity to be your TV. The two coming together means nothing.

 

[Morpheus Phreak]

And they both just happen to come at the very exact time in ONE update, bundled in one neat OTA package.
What are the odds of that ?

The odds? Odds of what?

You proposed a scenario that doesn't even exist. While the updates do generally launch at the same time, they are not a single update in a single package.

When updates are sent they are sent as separate packages for OTA. You will get an OS update and a manufacturer specific update. It is all delivered as one process, but separate packages.

 

[Jupast]

And they both just happen to come at the very exact time in ONE update, bundled in one neat OTA package.
What are the odds of that ?

The moon is made of cheesecake -which is part cheese, eggs ( not cheese) sugar ( not cheese) vanilla ( not cheese) and then a crust
all bundled together to make the MOON made of cheesecake, not the same as Lumia Black but bundled like Lumia Black.

*sigh* There's always one isn't there.

Ok Mr Lebowski, you've made your (incorrect) point. Moving on.

 

[hopmedic]

*sigh* There's always one isn't there.

Ok Mr Lebowski, you've made your (incorrect) point. Moving on.

Just learn the lesson.... :wink: