I'm tired of Nokia's monopoly. Where are the promised OEMs?

[Citizen X]

If you look the situation on Android side, the situation is not that different. There is Samsung and everybody else.

Yeah I mean look at who actually ships phones. Most of the Andriod middle and upper end is Samsung. If Android can't support a vibrant competitive field given it's size why would Windows Phone? There are two phablets for Windows Phone... both Nokia. I only see two phablets for Andriod... both Samsung. Andriod and Windows Phone are drifting to where Apple is. We will still have a variety of handsets but they will mostly all come from one company.

 

[Nogitsune Micah]

Yeah I mean look at who actually ships phones. Most of the Andriod middle and upper end is Samsung. If Android can't support a vibrant competitive field given it's size why would Windows Phone? There are two phablets for Windows Phone... both Nokia. I only see two phablets for Andriod... both Samsung. Andriod and Windows Phone are drifting to where Apple is. We will still have a variety of handsets but they will mostly all come from one company.

Um HTC and Sony both have android phablets as well.

 

[tgp]

I should have said three major updates....
And your count of two for WP8 is wrong. It's three.

Has there been anything besides GDR1 and GDR2? GDR3 is not officially out yet. And so far the GDRs have been little more than bug fixes. GDR3 is more, but it's not out yet.

 

[Nogitsune Micah]

I'm sorry I disappointed you. Welcome to the WPCentral forums, where disappointment is only a page scroll away! Hahaha but seriously, that's what I'm saying. We need another manufacturer that makes people want to support them. Because not everyone wants a Nokia phone, believe it or not.

We dont need another manufacturer. We need another manufacturer who cares enough to be amazing. Long before there was a Lumia, both HTC and Samsung had the potential to do with windows phone what Nokia is doing especially since Samsung is a titan beast when it comes to marketing and I actually do like their implementations on their android phones. I'm sure if they had talked with Microsoft they could have the same level of control that Nokia has a d probably more. They chose to release crap phones....with little support.

If I am not mistaken, wasn't HTC the preferred manufacturer in the windows phone 7 era? They essentially were doing what Nokia is doing now. Phones like the radar, titan, hd7, trophy, arrive etc etc and if I am not mistaken they were the first one to introduce a higher resolution camera on the titan. Again they had ample opportunity to do something worthwhile. They had a head start and winded up screwing up and look at them now. In almost two years they've released two windows phone...three if you count the 8xt as a separate phone.

I honestly wish Microsoft would take the apple approach and just start focusing on one model and updates and marketing like apple does for their products. The surface line could be a llot better and it already is better than most windows tablet but it feels like they are held back simply because Microsoft is appeasing their manufacturers. Same with windows phones. I would drop all the manufacturers and do whatever I can to buy the nokia name for smartphones and use that as my brand, instead of wasting time trying to appease these manufacturers who do nothing and then complain when they don't sale.

 

[Rodrigo Mendes]

We dont need another manufacturer. We need another manufacturer who cares enough to be amazing. Long before there was a Lumia, both HTC and Samsung had the potential to do with windows phone what Nokia is doing especially since Samsung is a titan beast when it comes to marketing and I actually do like their implementations on their android phones. I'm sure if they had talked with Microsoft they could have the same level of control that Nokia has a d probably more. They chose to release crap phones....with little support.

If I am not mistaken, wasn't HTC the preferred manufacturer in the windows phone 7 era? They essentially were doing what Nokia is doing now. Phones like the radar, titan, hd7, trophy, arrive etc etc and if I am not mistaken they were the first one to introduce a higher resolution camera on the titan. Again they had ample opportunity to do something worthwhile. They had a head start and winded up screwing up and look at them now. In almost two years they've released two windows phone...three if you count the 8xt as a separate phone.

I honestly wish Microsoft would take the apple approach and just start focusing on one model and updates and marketing like apple does for their products. The surface line could be a llot better and it already is better than most windows tablet but it feels like they are held back simply because Microsoft is appeasing their manufacturers. Same with windows phones. I would drop all the manufacturers and do whatever I can to buy the nokia name for smartphones and use that as my brand, instead of wasting time trying to appease these manufacturers who do nothing and then complain when they don't sale.

Where can I sign here? Perfect. Absolutely perfect!

 

[hopmedic]

Has there been anything besides GDR1 and GDR2? GDR3 is not officially out yet. And so far the GDRs have been little more than bug fixes. GDR3 is more, but it's not out yet.

GDR3 has been out officially pushed through carriers. I believe the first was Verizon, on the 8x, November 22.
Verizon begins pushing Update 3 (GDR3) for HTC 8X Windows Phone | Windows Phone Central
It has also been out on the 1520 and 1320, out of the box.
It was pushed to the 1020 on ATT on December 19
AT&T and Nokia release Lumia Black update for Lumia 1020; Lumia 1520 also gets new firmware | Windows Phone Central
It was pushed to the 1020 and 925 worldwide last week
Nokia begins global Lumia Black update roll out; kicks things off in China | Windows Phone Central

Also, there were two updates to GDR3 since it was released to Verizon's HTC 8x, that we received even if we were on the developer preview (which is an official channel and has the same build as those that were pushed through carriers).

How is that not official?

Additionally, you may think that these updates were little more than bug fixes, but that only demonstrates how little you know about what they do. Just off the top of my head, they added functionality that allowed Glance, 1080p, blocking calls, multi-core processors, and more. No, they didn't expose a lot of functionality for the user, but there was a lot that they do behind the scenes to allow improved hardware. But we knew that because Microsoft told us last spring that much of what was coming this year would be for improved hardware, not as much for users. They also said that next year (now this year) we'd see more user improvements.

 

[riotnrrrdx]

i don't get it , the main reason i have a WP is because of Nokia , without them i wont even bother on taking chances with WP8
but things have changed and it's because of Nokia, i wont bother looking at other OEM's with WP8

 

[tgp]

GDR3 has been out officially pushed through carriers. I believe the first was Verizon, on the 8x, November 22.
Verizon begins pushing Update 3 (GDR3) for HTC 8X Windows Phone | Windows Phone Central
It has also been out on the 1520 and 1320, out of the box.
It was pushed to the 1020 on ATT on December 19
AT&T and Nokia release Lumia Black update for Lumia 1020; Lumia 1520 also gets new firmware | Windows Phone Central
It was pushed to the 1020 and 925 worldwide last week
Nokia begins global Lumia Black update roll out; kicks things off in China | Windows Phone Central

Also, there were two updates to GDR3 since it was released to Verizon's HTC 8x, that we received even if we were on the developer preview (which is an official channel and has the same build as those that were pushed through carriers).

How is that not official?

Yes, you're correct. But it hasn't arrived yet on either of my two WPs.

But either way, I still think it's a bit presumptuous to say that WP's updates are are coming as fast or faster than the competitions'. Besides, WP has some catching up to do, so they should be pushing out updates with added features even faster. So far, they aren't.

I'm excited to see what 8.1 brings. But there again, it'll probably be released late summer/autumn, not long before iOS 8 and Android 5.0 are released. One step forward, then the competitors take one step forward. The gap will remain.

 

[MSFTisMIA]

Personally, choice is better within the ecosystem. I'd rather not have MSFT take the Apple approach because for them to do so, they would have to have the infrastructure fully in place to do what Apple does best - offer a premium system wide experience. They are A LONG WAYS from that.

I looked to WP as the future when I came on board, where I can transfer one experience from one device to the next. MSFT isn't there yet, where my Xbox, WP, tablet and PC are really integrated. That's what I want to see. I mention that because it plays into the growth of WP.

What Apple does is that it uses its hardware and OS to fulfill one goal: have users consumer content, and be able get profits from doing so. MSFT isn't there yet, because Skype, Xbox, Office, and its other singular good services don't talk to each other well.

Why does that matter? Sony went to Android because that allows them to push the PS interests and ecosystem easier. Samsung figured out you need to sell more than just phones to compete with Apple, you need an ecosystem alternative.

So MSFT buys Nokia as it is the best and most easily brand out there. Smart move. But that will take take to integrate, just as it took time for them to fix the other problems in the OS.

To me, MSFT hasn't offered anything to other OEMs to make the OS attractive. At least with Android, an OEM can design hardware, skin it, and take their chances. Yes, HTC was the preferred partner in WP7, but the software didn't help matters in terms of giving them an opportunity to make money. Why do you think there is a Nokia Mix Radio service? Content for consumers, means they get more money from you. The phone is a one time purchase, content is multiple purchases.

Personally, each OEM should pick one or two features, build a complimentary system around that on top of the OS and it gives users a choice. I own both a 8X and a 920. If HTC decided that audio was going to be their thing, added better audio tech (assuming WP8 now can fully support it), build audio specific accessories, get exclusive content, and still put a dent camera into good design, they can get customers like the OP. Nokia's audio on WP isn't good, so that's an opportunity there. If Nokia continues to push mapping and imaging tech, they will always be the best game in town, even after MSFT absorbs them.

So I rather 2-3 OEMs pitching their unique reasons to buy their handset by still get that universal experience. More importantly, I'd rather the OS itself be mature and really make the choice about hardware preference than anything else.

 

[etad putta]

Personally, choice is better within the ecosystem. I'd rather not have MSFT take the Apple approach because for them to do so, they would have to have the infrastructure fully in place to do what Apple does best - offer a premium system wide experience. They are A LONG WAYS from that.

I looked to WP as the future when I came on board, where I can transfer one experience from one device to the next. MSFT isn't there yet, where my Xbox, WP, tablet and PC are really integrated. That's what I want to see. I mention that because it plays into the growth of WP.

What Apple does is that it uses its hardware and OS to fulfill one goal: have users consumer content, and be able get profits from doing so. MSFT isn't there yet, because Skype, Xbox, Office, and its other singular good services don't talk to each other well.

Why does that matter? Sony went to Android because that allows them to push the PS interests and ecosystem easier. Samsung figured out you need to sell more than just phones to compete with Apple, you need an ecosystem alternative.

So MSFT buys Nokia as it is the best and most easily brand out there. Smart move. But that will take take to integrate, just as it took time for them to fix the other problems in the OS.

To me, MSFT hasn't offered anything to other OEMs to make the OS attractive. At least with Android, an OEM can design hardware, skin it, and take their chances. Yes, HTC was the preferred partner in WP7, but the software didn't help matters in terms of giving them an opportunity to make money. Why do you think there is a Nokia Mix Radio service? Content for consumers, means they get more money from you. The phone is a one time purchase, content is multiple purchases.

Personally, each OEM should pick one or two features, build a complimentary system around that on top of the OS and it gives users a choice. I own both a 8X and a 920. If HTC decided that audio was going to be their thing, added better audio tech (assuming WP8 now can fully support it), build audio specific accessories, get exclusive content, and still put a dent camera into good design, they can get customers like the OP. Nokia's audio on WP isn't good, so that's an opportunity there. If Nokia continues to push mapping and imaging tech, they will always be the best game in town, even after MSFT absorbs them.

So I rather 2-3 OEMs pitching their unique reasons to buy their handset by still get that universal experience. More importantly, I'd rather the OS itself be mature and really make the choice about hardware preference than anything else.

But i don't want to choose between 2 or 3 different half arsed phones. Is it too much to ask to have them make a quality device as in the top fruit or green guy flagships? More isn't better, better is better. Sometimes i feel as though Nokia had people who had ADHD (no harm meant to those with it, i take my meds).

 

[MSFTisMIA]

People talk about updates. Firstly, you cannot ingore the carriers. Please don't mention Apple because Apple negotiated tighter deadlines for carriers to address their firmware issues, have less devices to support and have the number of users that behooves carriers to stick to the script and approve stuff quickly. Plus, the whole "frequency update" and "fragmentation" was stuff from Apple. Reason being that a lot of the initial updates in iOS were adding welcomed features to mature the OS. Now they are down to a couple of major updates annually, the rest being bug fixes. But with that mindset cultivated, it is a bunch of hype and excitement for no real reason with each Apple software update.

Google is the same too, but because OEMs skin the OS to make money, their software turn around times is longer. Added to that the carriers have more leverage, that honestly, it may be better from a carrier POV to eat a phone and put its successor out with the lastest software than to support it. We've seen many examples of this. It is not like t-mo orders 10 million S4s at once - they order a batch, once it starts to sell well, they know how many to order to subsequently to get them into consumers' hands.

MSFT was trying to straddle that line but had no clout with the carriers to push through timely updates - because the carriers worked closer with the OEMs. Now that MSFT is starting to have the user base with more people buying WP, perhaps they can negotiate better turn arounds. People forget that the Lumia 900 was a dead in the water phone used to really open the doors of the US market to WP in a fresh way. I say so because MSFT and Nokia already knew when WP8 was coming out and that it wouldn't get it.

My point is that I'd rather a mix of both - quicker updates from MSFT for the major releases, sprinkled in with OEM related improvements. They don't HAVE to be at the same time, as how Nokia has chosen to do it. Perhaps that is where another OEM can come in to give the consumer the feel of "constant updates like Apple"...

 

[Citizen X]

I only see two phablets for Andriod... both Samsung.

Um HTC and Sony both have android phablets as well.

Never seen either in an at&t store nor in the wild.

 

[Citizen X]

What Apple does is that it uses its hardware and OS to fulfill one goal: have users consumer content, and be able get profits from doing so.

Apple makes most of its profits from selling overpriced hardware... which is mostly phones and ipads.

 

[amrut_m]

Today whatever WP is is because of Nokia, Live with it or deny the fact.

If it was'nt for Nokia, MS and WP would be dead already.
MS saw what Nokia did with WP8,it took WP8 to new heights,
with 920 launch,it was the most sold WP device that time,later they introduced 520,720 to capture the market.
Later launched 1020 and showed that they are still the best when it comes to Cameras. So MS bought Nokia,it ws like Nokia needed MS and MS needed NOKIA.
Nokia Knew and Knows How to Capture market,but they are a bit lacked out by the Carrier System and Marketing side.

More OEMs will help WP to Rise even further,would be able to capture market by 2x-3x forcr,it will encourage developers to build apps.

 

[etad putta]

People talk about updates. Firstly, you cannot ingore the carriers. Please don't mention Apple because Apple negotiated tighter deadlines for carriers to address their firmware issues, have less devices to support and have the number of users that behooves carriers to stick to the script and approve stuff quickly. Plus, the whole "frequency update" and "fragmentation" was stuff from Apple. Reason being that a lot of the initial updates in iOS were adding welcomed features to mature the OS. Now they are down to a couple of major updates annually, the rest being bug fixes. But with that mindset cultivated, it is a bunch of hype and excitement for no real reason with each Apple software update.

Google is the same too, but because OEMs skin the OS to make money, their software turn around times is longer. Added to that the carriers have more leverage, that honestly, it may be better from a carrier POV to eat a phone and put its successor out with the lastest software than to support it. We've seen many examples of this. It is not like t-mo orders 10 million S4s at once - they order a batch, once it starts to sell well, they know how many to order to subsequently to get them into consumers' hands.

MSFT was trying to straddle that line but had no clout with the carriers to push through timely updates - because the carriers worked closer with the OEMs. Now that MSFT is starting to have the user base with more people buying WP, perhaps they can negotiate better turn arounds. People forget that the Lumia 900 was a dead in the water phone used to really open the doors of the US market to WP in a fresh way. I say so because MSFT and Nokia already knew when WP8 was coming out and that it wouldn't get it.

My point is that I'd rather a mix of both - quicker updates from MSFT for the major releases, sprinkled in with OEM related improvements. They don't HAVE to be at the same time, as how Nokia has chosen to do it. Perhaps that is where another OEM can come in to give the consumer the feel of "constant updates like Apple"...

You have convinced me, my next phone will be a nexus device, as will my tablet.

 

[MSFTisMIA]

But i don't want to choose between 2 or 3 different half arsed phones. Is it too much to ask to have them make a quality device as in the top fruit or green guy flagships? More isn't better, better is better. Sometimes i feel as though Nokia had people who had ADHD (no harm meant to those with it, i take my meds).

I get you, but you, and some other folks here still missing where I'm coming from. It isn't about one aspect of the business model, in this case the hardware from OEMs, it is about the entire ecosystem.

With the Android OS, each OEM has an opportunity to sell its own version of the Android Experience and tie into services into it. So OEMs can make money from the carriers who buy their phones, and users who buy into the OEMs services.

Remember Apple gets 30% from each paid app. If you have 10 people buy an app that costs $1, of that $10 in sales, Apple gets $3. That's one revenue stream. Apple then gets money from each of those consumers buying an iDevice, and Apple licensed accessories. That's another revenue stream. Then I am sure Apple gets a cut from music, movies, shows purchased in the iTunes store. Again, more money for Apple. This is the Apple model everyone, including MSFT wants to emulate. Why did you think Apple fough Amazon so hard for the Apps store branding? Why did you think Jobs hated Android so much? It's about profits.

So yes, as a consumer, I want the best possible hardware out there to choose from. I don't want 3 half assed phones as options. But OEMs aren't going to wow consumers unless the carriers and software designers - in this case MSFT - doesn't give them a way to get money too.

 

[MSFTisMIA]

You have convinced me, my next phone will be a nexus device, as will my tablet.

If that works for you, good for you. My point was to merely point out the bigger things that are happening in place that may play in why it takes a large group of corporations to move quickly on anything. I will still use Windows and WP for my needs because they are the best fit for me - limitations included. I don't care what OEM has the hardware I want, as long as it has the OS i want and the hardware can do the tasks i need it to do, I will buy from HTC, Nokia, Samsung, etc.

 

[MSFTisMIA]

Today whatever WP is is because of Nokia, Live with it or deny the fact.

If it was'nt for Nokia, MS and WP would be dead already.
MS saw what Nokia did with WP8,it took WP8 to new heights,
with 920 launch,it was the most sold WP device that time,later they introduced 520,720 to capture the market.
Later launched 1020 and showed that they are still the best when it comes to Cameras. So MS bought Nokia,it ws like Nokia needed MS and MS needed NOKIA.
Nokia Knew and Knows How to Capture market,but they are a bit lacked out by the Carrier System and Marketing side.

More OEMs will help WP to Rise even further,would be able to capture market by 2x-3x forcr,it will encourage developers to build apps.

I don't disagree here because Nokia had good mindshare in the eyes of consumers, better than HTC and Samsung who were trying (and still are) to conquer Android space. So MSFT partnered with them to get things done. But as we know, great hardware and ****ty software makes a phone not sell. It is still on MSFT to mature the OS as if the user experience is crap, no one will buy it...

 

[Greywolf1967]

HTC in truth has not made a good Windows Phone since the HTC HD2, I know as I had one. It turned out to be one of the most flexible and highly mod'd phones around.

It Ran WinMo 6.5, Windows Phone 7, Android in many flavors, Meego, Windows Phone 8 started to blink to life, and even Windows RT got hacked onto the device ( The Dark Forces Team ).

After the HD2, HTC just didn't put the same into the devices.....HD7, HD Surround, Titan and Titan II, all were basic clones of the HD2 but with no passion. The Radar was a Step in the right direction.
It took it style from a smallish HTC Android Tablet, but they really made a good phone with that, but left it as a mid to low end phone.

I am sorry but the HTC 8x and 8s were just a half hearted attempt to cash in on Nokia's style and flair from the launch of the L700, L800 and L900, which at the time caused a buzz because Nokia had phones with wild color and new body shells.

Nokia made every mobile builder sit up and take notice. Just look at the Androids that are now hitting the market.......Oh Android now wants to be colorful. Apple even chumpped Nokia style with the ipod mini or nano's that looked like a Nokia Lumia.

What were the color options before Nokia????? White/Black/Grey/Silver in fact I think only Samsung was the odd one out, as they had a Windows Phone that was a Blue/Black tint of a plastic chrome.

Even Apple now has the 5c in color options.

So Nokia only looks to be a monopoly, but until they pushed the edges of design no one even noticed they were still alive. They have banked their future on 2 markets WP and Asha.....which is pulling them back from the dead.

HTC on the other hand looked to Android to keep them alive, and sadly they have lost much of their market as even in their Android line they have lost inspiration.

 

[neo158]

At this point I'd rather there just be one, Nokia or soon to be Microsoft. The 8X is a gorgeous phone. But HTC hasn't done a phone since. And Samsung's phones are ugly Android second hand phones.

I disagree, competition is good but if you want to spend ?1000/?1000/$1000 on your smartphone then that's fine but I don't think anyone else would!!