[JustToClarify]

The big shootout: Nokia 808 vs HTC One vs Lumia 920 vs an imposter(!)

the review is overly biased or..?

[troylytle]

Lol. Joke review. They used cameras on factory settings.

[JustToClarify]

that's what most reviewers do

[uselessrobot]

Was the Lumia 920 running updated software? Those looks like the kinds of results I was getting prior to the update.

[JustToClarify]

I think he has his device updated to Portico...

[Axefield]

I think he wanted to make Lumia 920 look as bad as he could.

[vlad0]

The N95 shots at 2.2 microns pixels vs. 1.4 microns for the 920 ... no surprises there. Test it yourself.. I guarantee that you will get better pictures from the Symbian device.

The N95 and the ONE are pretty much on the same level. It took HTC 6 years to get on Nokia's level... bravo.

HTC One 2.0 microns
N95 2.2 microns

The 920 in the review is on portico. The one thing I don't get is why is he zooming past 100% on all of the pictures ..

[JustToClarify]

to exaggerate difference

[tissotti]

Honestly i would not be too surprised.
Many of the Symbian phones like N8, especially the unbelievable 808 PureView do take better pictures than Lumia 920.
Granted if dark photos Lumia 920 should have them beaten. Though on a moderate or dim lighting 808 PureView on 5 or 8MP PureView mode gets way more details and sharper image.

Coming from a 808 PureView and Lumia 920 owner.


It is pretty amazing that N95 from 2007 holds so well.

[anon(5370748)]

Right - larger pixels generally means less noise and better image quality. The megapixel race is an annoying fabrication by a bunch of marketers so they can have some sort of metric to spew at people to try to convince them to buy the phone (or camera). Unfortunately that means Nokia is forced to use an 8.7MP sensor so that people don't just dismiss it because "aw jeez, it only has a 5mp camera, it must suck!". Fortunately the target audience for a phonecam shot is Facebook. Not billboards, not magazines, not printed art installations at museums, not anything where people are going to be scrutinizing it on a pixel-by-pixel level. As a result, it's the final 1600x900 image after scaling and sharpening that matters, so that leaves a lot of breathing room and margin for error when you're producing ridiculously huge and noisy 4K native images from a sensor the size of a pinhead.

So yeah, sure, the 808 has a much better camera in it - it's essentially a point and shoot that also does phone stuff. The N95 was made at a time when they didn't have to cram quite as much crap into a phone and there wasn't this unhealthy obsession with thinness in devices, so the camera could afford to be physically larger. Neither the 808 nor the N95 are anywhere near as useful anymore when it comes to being smartphones. If I'm going to have to carry a second device for photos, it's going to be a dedicated camera which will blow any smartphone out of the water when it comes to picture quality. The One vs the 920 is the only real comparison here, and artistically, I like the look of the images the 920 takes compared to the One. Also, Android. Bleah.

[vlad0]

The megapixel race is an annoying fabrication by a bunch of marketers so they can have some sort of metric to spew at people to try to convince them to buy the phone (or camera).

Couldn't have said it better myself. Spot on.

Neither the 808 nor the N95 are anywhere near as useful anymore when it comes to being smartphones.

I respectfully disagree.

I own an iphone 5 and a Nokia 808.. the 808 is as much a smartphone as anything else out there, at least for my needs.. mostly phone calls, texting, e-mail, gps navigation (Nok Maps is better on Symbian than any other platform, and you can run Gmaps natively as well), posting pics to flickr/fb, twitter (gravity works very well), music/youtube, and web browsing.. granted, its no where near as good as my iphone 5, but its not as bad as many people make it out to be either.

And of course, being an amateur photographer... the 808 simply great.

Here is how it compares to the 5 in terms of multitasking:



here is the browser:



Just saying, it depends on your usage and your own expectations.

[anon(5370748)]

Just saying, it depends on your usage and your own expectations.

Should have qualified that with "for most people". I'm not saying Symbian doesn't do some things a lot better, and WP8 still has a ways to go to catch up with Android and iOS when it comes to popular apps, but devs (especially tier 1) will still support it long before Symbian now (if they ever even do). You also can't walk into an AT&T/Verizon/Sprint/T-Mobile store in the US and buy a Symbian phone anymore, so it's pretty much a specialty OS for savvy people now. Here at least.

[vlad0]

^ yes.. you would have to go out of your way to get an 808, as far as I know only Amazon sells them with US warranty. The OS is in zombie mode... it still works, and nokia is updating/bug fixing, but I don't expect them to keep their promise of "support until 2016" . And even if they support it, there are very few developers left.. and that number will continue to go down.

I looked at the pics from the test again, and I did my own 100% crop, instead of what Steve did.. which seems to past that. It made me realize that it showcases Nokia's progress in imaging for the past 7 years. The N95 came out in 2007, and the 808 in 2012.. so for 5 years they went from:

This: (n95)


to this: (808)


Which makes you realize how difficult it is to keep improving image quality with such strict size restrictions.. the closer you get to the perfect pixel, the harder it gets. That is why I still think that the competition is at least 5-6 years away from reaching 808 levels, unless we see some kind of a new revolutionary sensor technology in the mean time.

[JustToClarify]

If I'm going to have to carry a second device for photos, it's going to be a dedicated camera which will blow any smartphone out of the water when it comes to picture quality.

The first dedicated camera which would have noticeably better IQ is Sony RX100, it's double the price of 808 and 50% more weight. Also I'd rather combine 808 + surface or android tablet than some modern smartphone + dedicated camera. Costs less, takes less space and is a lot more convenient.

[vlad0]

The first dedicated camera which would have noticeably better IQ is Sony RX100, it's double the price of 808 and 50% more weight. Also I'd rather combine 808 + surface or android tablet than some modern smartphone + dedicated camera. Costs less, takes less space and is a lot more convenient.

The Rx100 is very good.. its the only P&S that I might consider if I would to buy one. But I think if you are going to carry a camera, you might as well go for an used DSLR and get it over with :)

808 + Surface Pro is what I am relying on, and its a very powerful combo. The 808 doubles as a Wi-Fi hotspot (joikuspot) on AT&T's media net dumb phone data plan, which is $15/unlimited... so I got a tablet/pc/camera/smartphone into two devices. Next would be PureView lumia + Surface Pro 2 (haswell) ...

Here are the rest of the crops

808


920


N95


One


808


920


N95


One


920


One

[buxz777]

ive been a Symbian user since the 6630 , I recently took a 808 on a journey to Thailand for a month and to be honest as a basic smartphone it is ok , as a fully fledged smartphone for my needs it was pretty poor , Skype only supports voice calling , the web browser is so poor I couldn't book hotels through agoda on it where as android and windows etc it is no problem , the facebook and social networking aspect is also poor , gaming was poor , youtube not great , no soundcloud app for streaming my fave music etc etc

now the camera is good , very very good but there was times when I needed more then 3/4x zoom to get closer to great views , there was times when there wasn't enough manual control over my shots , the video recording on the other hand was simply superb , also nokia maps come in very handy for travelling Thailand and the coverage was excellent as was the gps signal , the tv out feature was also very handy for hotel rooms etc

for me I would rather have a proper smartphone with great web browser and nice app selection with a high end , high zoom point and shoot camera , I am currently using the 920 and a cannon sx 240hs with 20x optical zoom , its a nice camera , offers full manual mode , great zoom and I find it offers more versatility then the 808 , I also find the 920 to be more of a modern smartphone then the 808 with better app selection and web browser that offers again more versatility , there were times in Thailand when the 808 just let me down as a smartphone and havinga windows/ios/android device plus a decent point and shoot would have offered me much more

I am not knocking the 808 , it will be nice to have the sensor and lens on a windows phone and I hope they get it out sooner rather then later but when you chose the 808 as your smartphone then you simply have to make compromises and some of them suck , the web browser is sooooo poor in my eyes are things like social networking , gaming , usefull apps really let it down :-/

cmon nokia pull your finger out and lets get a windows pureview phase1+2 out there and show the sgs4 users what a true convergence device really is

am I excited about pureview phase1 coming to windows phone .... yes I am as it will offer a better convergence device then the 808 as for my needs the 808 just doesn't cut it as a smartp

[anon(5370748)]

The first dedicated camera which would have noticeably better IQ is Sony RX100, it's double the price of 808 and 50% more weight. Also I'd rather combine 808 + surface or android tablet than some modern smartphone + dedicated camera. Costs less, takes less space and is a lot more convenient.

I use the 920 as my "camera that's always on me". Going to the 808 wouldn't be enough of a step up to warrant a second device, and the RX100 isn't good for what I like to shoot. I'd take my GH2 with the ultrawide or macro or both. Maybe throw the fisheye in there for fun. The screen on the 920 is big and nice enough that I don't need a small tablet for general purpose smartphoney stuff (browsing, social networking, checking this forum, OneNote, etc), and if you've ever tried wrangling RAW images on Android or iOS, you know what an utter PITA it is. If I'm going to be sorting on the go, I have the Surface Pro which I like a lot. It's pretty amazing how well that runs Lightroom.

*edit* - just saw buxz777's post - that's pretty much how I feel too. I'd upgrade in a second to something with the 920's specs, but with a true PureView camera like the one in the 808. I just wouldn't carry a second device just for that camera.

[Huime]

He should crop in respect to global size not the taken picture of each phone. The fuq that each phone takes pictures in different dimension, how is this even a comparison?

[JustToClarify]

ive been a Symbian user since the 6630 , I recently took a 808 on a journey to Thailand for a month and to be honest as a basic smartphone it is ok , as a fully fledged smartphone for my needs it was pretty poor , Skype only supports voice calling , the web browser is so poor I couldn't book hotels through agoda on it where as android and windows etc it is no problem , the facebook and social networking aspect is also poor , gaming was poor , youtube not great , no soundcloud app for streaming my fave music etc etc

now the camera is good , very very good but there was times when I needed more then 3/4x zoom to get closer to great views , there was times when there wasn't enough manual control over my shots , the video recording on the other hand was simply superb , also nokia maps come in very handy for travelling Thailand and the coverage was excellent as was the gps signal , the tv out feature was also very handy for hotel rooms etc

for me I would rather have a proper smartphone with great web browser and nice app selection with a high end , high zoom point and shoot camera , I am currently using the 920 and a cannon sx 240hs with 20x optical zoom , its a nice camera , offers full manual mode , great zoom and I find it offers more versatility then the 808 , I also find the 920 to be more of a modern smartphone then the 808 with better app selection and web browser that offers again more versatility , there were times in Thailand when the 808 just let me down as a smartphone and havinga windows/ios/android device plus a decent point and shoot would have offered me much more

I am not knocking the 808 , it will be nice to have the sensor and lens on a windows phone and I hope they get it out sooner rather then later but when you chose the 808 as your smartphone then you simply have to make compromises and some of them suck , the web browser is sooooo poor in my eyes are things like social networking , gaming , usefull apps really let it down :-/

cmon nokia pull your finger out and lets get a windows pureview phase1+2 out there and show the sgs4 users what a true convergence device really is

am I excited about pureview phase1 coming to windows phone .... yes I am as it will offer a better convergence device then the 808 as for my needs the 808 just doesn't cut it as a smartp

Nokia factory browser is pretty bad, have you tried Opera Mobile/Mini maybe? Or CuteTube for YouTube? There are also some nice apps for social networking and very good games for a phone(=to kill some time).

I know it's not up to WP8&Android standards but I don't find this particularly bad :

[Dratwister]

Writer of this article said that his 920's having focusing issue. But still don't know, none of his photo is as near detail as what I can get from mine

Tree branches to compare may be? Don't ask me why did I use 3rd photo app viewer, cause picture hub of WP8 is suck at displaying true details of photos. But truth is truth, the photos in that article doesn't serve 920 right at all.
And this's just screenshot


full picture:


I don't say that HTC one isn't good, or N95, 808 aren't great phone cameras. But to say that 920's photos are that bad is plain wrong.

P.S: in case you doubt me: that sharpen edge is from flickr itself.

[vlad0]

^ this is much better... do you have any more in different lighting ? I looked trough your flickr account, great photography!

I think Steve shot the 920 with its built in camera app, just like the rest of the phones, but someone should tell him to use a third party.. seems to be better.

As far as the HTC one... its alright, but to be honest 3Mpix is a bit too small. I was looking at the pics on a 24 inch 1080p display ... you can't even zoom into the pics from the one.

I think the best compromise in terms of sensor size and pixel size would be the system from the N8. Its @ 1.75 microns/12Mpix, the hump is only a few mm, it can be nicely faded into the design.. if they cut that sensor into 8Mpix instead of 12.. we have a winner.

And for Symbian.. it works fine for some, and not for others. But to say that Symbian smartphones are not smartphones is simply not true.

[anon(5370748)]

Writer of this article said that his 920's having focusing issue. But still don't know, none of his photo is as near detail as what I can get from mine

I don't say that HTC one isn't good, or N95, 808 aren't great phone cameras. But to say that 920's photos are that bad is plain wrong.

Totally agree

Unedited 920 images that I shot, both before and after Portico: https://skydrive.live.com/pagenotfounderror

[Dratwister]

^ this is much better... do you have any more in different lighting ? I looked trough your flickr account, great photography!

I think Steve shot the 920 with its built in camera app, just like the rest of the phones, but someone should tell him to use a third party.. seems to be better.

As far as the HTC one... its alright, but to be honest 3Mpix is a bit too small. I was looking at the pics on a 24 inch 1080p display ... you can't even zoom into the pics from the one.

I think the best compromise in terms of sensor size and pixel size would be the system from the N8. Its @ 1.75 microns/12Mpix, the hump is only a few mm, it can be nicely faded into the design.. if they cut that sensor into 8Mpix instead of 12.. we have a winner.

And for Symbian.. it works fine for some, and not for others. But to say that Symbian smartphones are not smartphones is simply not true.

I'm with you about Symbian. Symbian phones are smartphones, that's the fact. And I hate it if someone say the otherwise just because Symbian's old.

About the above picture, at first I thought I captured it using proShot (which's a great shooting app). But then I noticed that the file name is WP default name convention. So that picture's captured purely by default shooting app of WP8 (or is it... I think I need to double check it, BTW. the 3rd app only provide you with additional options and controls, I don't think it can improve anything more than default camera can do). The photo's captured at late noon of day so I think that it has an equally light to article's church photo.

[EauRouge]

Just wanted to say that this has been a very interesting thread. I've enjoyed reading it!

[vlad0]

Just wanted to say that this has been a very interesting thread. I've enjoyed reading it!

Very nice avatar there.. you excited about the race today/tomorrow (depending where you are).. I know I am :)

I'm with you about Symbian. Symbian phones are smartphones, that's the fact. And I hate it if someone say the otherwise just because Symbian's old.

About the above picture, at first I thought I captured it using proShot (which's a great shooting app). But then I noticed that the file name is WP default name convention. So that picture's captured purely by default shooting app of WP8 (or is it... I think I need to double check it, BTW. the 3rd app only provide you with additional options and controls, I don't think it can improve anything more than default camera can do). The photo's captured at late noon of day so I think that it has an equally light to article's church photo.

Well, whatever you did, its one of best 920 pics I've see so far in terms of quality.

Totally agree

Unedited 920 images that I shot, both before and after Portico: https://skydrive.live.com/pagenotfounderror

:) we have the exact same shot from the de Young...

your 920

https://public.blu.livefilestore.com...121230_025.jpg



my 808

https://o1elvq.dm1.livefilestore.com...12-30-0702.jpg