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  1. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    Looking back at this thread, I'm actually laughing at Nokia converting their Symbian users to WP.

    The OP (and a lot of others) did the exact opposite.
    Of course, it has something to do with that massive camera on the 808.
    04-30-2013 01:52 AM
  2. vlad0's Avatar
    I had the N8 for about two years, and the 808 for a year... the 808 is the better phone by far.. in fact, its the best Symbian phone out there. If you want to experience the platform, that is the only device I would recommend doing that with.

    Also.. I suggest visiting All About Symbian - news, reviews and software for Symbian and S60 phones .. they have current information, tips, and pretty much everything you need to know regarding Symbian.

    Personally, I will probably use my 808 as my main phone for another year, or until EOS 2 comes out.. and even then, I will still keep it. Its not just another smartphone.. it was way ahead of its time a year ago, a technological marvel is what I call it :)

    As far as support, the 808 had bunch of updates in past year.. 3rd party and from Nokia, so the platform is not "dead" .. its kind of in "zombie" mode

    Steve wrote a good article on it:

    http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/featu...ultimate_S.php
    mister2d likes this.
    04-30-2013 11:19 AM
  3. mister2d's Avatar
    Uh, the USB modes are a Symbian tradition.
    That's why I'm not leaning on that.

    If you really wanted to pull off all USB modes on WP, you'd have to:
    1. Make Nokia Suite work with WP (or a suitable replacement)
    2. Allow USB Tethering
    3. Make the OS compatible with USB devices
    4. Add a file system (mass storage)
    It's a Symbian tradition for Nokia phones, but Android phones can do this as well (with custom firmware of course).

    All those things you numbered are doable from a Microsoft software perspective.
    04-30-2013 01:18 PM
  4. mister2d's Avatar
    Looking back at this thread, I'm actually laughing at Nokia converting their Symbian users to WP.

    The OP (and a lot of others) did the exact opposite.
    Of course, it has something to do with that massive camera on the 808.

    It is ironic isn't it? Going backwards. I admit, I was curious about Nokia's heritage. The internal corporate structure must have been a complete mess. It might still be that way but just less of it. From what I can see there was no reason to dump Symbian off such a steep slope. Especially when they are pushing out low cost Ashas with the S60 mobile OS. The good news is Symbian will still be supported in some fashion until 2016.


    I had the N8 for about two years, and the 808 for a year... the 808 is the better phone by far.. in fact, its the best Symbian phone out there. If you want to experience the platform, that is the only device I would recommend doing that with.

    Also.. I suggest visiting All About Symbian - news, reviews and software for Symbian and S60 phones .. they have current information, tips, and pretty much everything you need to know regarding Symbian.

    Personally, I will probably use my 808 as my main phone for another year, or until EOS 2 comes out.. and even then, I will still keep it. Its not just another smartphone.. it was way ahead of its time a year ago, a technological marvel is what I call it :)
    I agree!
    04-30-2013 01:27 PM
  5. vlad0's Avatar

    All those things you numbered are doable from a Microsoft software perspective.
    Ya.. the NT kernel is very powerful, as we all know from out desktops, and its pretty much up to Microsoft and the available hardware for them to unlock it's full potential.

    For example, NT can multitask as well as Symbian, but it needs more powerful hardware to achieve that. I think as soon as we get to 4GB ram and 3000+ mah batteries (or equivalent tech) MS should be able to unlock the multitasking. Also, don't forget that Windows Phone 8 is technically 1.0 .. or .. if you go by the kernel number.. 6.2 but I think they are different enough to where it doesn't correspond directly, so.. MS will be working on further optimization of the kernel anyway.

    I believe that there can be an equilibrium between software and hardware.. in other words, hardware than can allow for the software to fully shine. I think we are just now hitting that mark in the Android realm, and they are at 4.0 / quad core 2gb ram.. I am pretty sure that iOS hit that mark with the iPhone 4s / iOS5.. dual core/1gb ram

    Windows CE is at 7.5 I believe, and its very good.. it runs very well on single core/512 ram, much better than Android, and probably a bit better than iOS.

    Windows NT (mobile), which is what we have in WP8, is surprisingly very, very good.. considering that its a desktop kernel that wasn't meant to run on cell phones. If someone told me that we will see NT run on mobile phones couple of years ago, I would've laughed at them. So.. just give it time.. I would say once they get to 3.0 - 3.5 we will have a pretty solid platform on our hands. At that time, the hardware will be much stronger as well..

    .. the balance for WP8 might be a potent dual core/3-4gb RAM/3000 mah battery

    Symbian is at version 10.5.. which technically makes it the most mature smartphone OS out there, and if you actually use one, you will see why, but still.. it never got that "equilibrium" point because Nokia mismanaged the whole project.. they would always under power their phones to the point where the software engineers were pretty much helpless.. ehm..the N97 fiasco. And bunch of other crap along in terms of where sym was going.

    Even the 808 runs on a CPU architecture from .. 2002 .. lol .. so overall if you look at the history, the emphasis for Nokia was to optimize the OS to run on cheap hardware, and focus on convergence, rather than on the actual software user experience.. and by time they realized that people actually cared about the UI.. Apple stole the show.

    .. the balance for Symbian would've been some dual core with faster 1gig of ram and a potent GPU. That would've solved their web browser issues for sure.

    Still.. running 40 applications in real time on slow 512 ram and an ARM11 cpu.. good stuff



    The internal corporate structure must have been a complete mess.
    Indeed a mess.. here is some informative reading on the subject:

    http://taskumuro.com/artikkelit/the-...of-nokia-meego

    and this one regarding their relationship with Microsoft over the years...

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02...osoft_history/
    Last edited by vlad0; 04-30-2013 at 05:26 PM.
    04-30-2013 05:06 PM
  6. ZiiimZooon's Avatar
    Hey! I'm thinking of buying a Nokia 808 PureView as my second phone and I have one question..

    How is the audio (speaker and headphone) compared to Nokia Lumia 920? :)
    04-30-2013 05:35 PM
  7. mister2d's Avatar
    Hey! I'm thinking of buying a Nokia 808 PureView as my second phone and I have one question..

    How is the audio (speaker and headphone) compared to Nokia Lumia 920? :)
    I'm going to try to answer while laughing out loud. The speaker is a joke in comparison. The 808's speaker is pretty freakin loud and clear. The 920, not so much. It's a toy speaker in comparison.

    The headphone jack on the 920 is actually pretty good. I hooked it up directly to my external headphone DAC/AMP and the sound quality does not distort or degrade at full volume. So, someone did a good job there building the 920.

    The 808's headphone jack? Excellent. It gets really loud, and the quality is great. Better than the 920.
    ZiiimZooon likes this.
    04-30-2013 06:26 PM
  8. Nick_1020's Avatar
    Less than a day left on my 808 eBay auction....

    Starting to have second thoughts!!!!!
    mister2d likes this.
    04-30-2013 07:47 PM
  9. vlad0's Avatar
    Less than a day left on my 808 eBay auction....

    Starting to have second thoughts!!!!!
    That thing is an instant classic... its a keeper, if possible. If you are board.. load up a CFW on it, or.. get a different color back cover, it looks cool:





    How is the audio (speaker and headphone) compared to Nokia Lumia 920? :)
    Not sure on the loud speaker, but the 808 is very similar to the iPhone 5.

    In terms of audio quality, its much better. In fact.. there are very few phones with better output.. the 4s and the new GS4.

    http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_lumia_...view-858p6.php
    Test Frequency response Noise level Dynamic range THD IMD + Noise Stereo crosstalk
    Nokia Lumia 920 +0.13, -0.12 -78.9 79.5 0.0099 0.385 -75.0
    Nokia Lumia 920 (headphones attached) +0.53, -0.03 -78.3 78.7 0.012 0.743 -64.4

    http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_808_pu...view-776p5.php
    Test Frequency response Noise level Dynamic range THD IMD + Noise Stereo crosstalk
    Nokia 808 PureView +0.09, -0.53 -89.7 89.7 0.0054 0.017 -89.0
    Nokia 808 PureView (headphones attached) +0.09, -0.53 -92.5 93.0 0.013 0.345 -54.7

    Source: GSMarena
    On what those numbers mean: GSMArena feature labs: The tests - GSMArena.com

    Just look at the DR..
    Nick_1020 and ZiiimZooon like this.
    04-30-2013 08:13 PM
  10. Nick_1020's Avatar
    That thing is an instant classic... its a keeper, if possible. If you are board.. load up a CFW on it, or.. get a different color back cover, it looks cool:

    http://i.imgur.com/uffHwL6.jpg
    vlad0, I spent years making CFWs for Symbian on Dailymobile and other sites. It's not a question of being bored, but more about moving on but I'm gonna miss it. Symbian does so much more than WP and the 808 was/is the best Symbian phone ever so I'm gonna miss it. There's still a chance it won't sell as it has to reach its reserve first but it's not far out.

    If it sells, I'll probably buy another at some point...I miss it already and it hasn't gone! ;)
    04-30-2013 08:44 PM
  11. mister2d's Avatar

    Test Frequency response Noise level Dynamic range THD IMD + Noise Stereo crosstalk
    Nokia Lumia 920 +0.13, -0.12 -78.9 79.5 0.0099 0.385 -75.0
    Nokia Lumia 920 (headphones attached) +0.53, -0.03 -78.3 78.7 0.012 0.743 -64.4

    Nokia 808 PureView review: Photo Finnish - GSMArena.com
    Test Frequency response Noise level Dynamic range THD IMD + Noise Stereo crosstalk
    Nokia 808 PureView +0.09, -0.53 -89.7 89.7 0.0054 0.017 -89.0
    Nokia 808 PureView (headphones attached) +0.09, -0.53 -92.5 93.0 0.013 0.345 -54.7

    Source: GSMarena
    On what those numbers mean: GSMArena feature labs: The tests - GSMArena.com

    Just look at the DR..
    That chart pretty much confirms what my ears hear of the 920 vs the 808. The thing is, the 920 is no slouch with connected headphones. But if you have both of them side by side playing the same music file, there is a world of a difference between the two.
    ZiiimZooon likes this.
    04-30-2013 09:48 PM
  12. ZiiimZooon's Avatar
    Thank you very much for the answers! It cleared op my decision of buying a Nokia 808 PureView and now I'm sure that I want one! I like the audio on NL920 both the speaker and through headphones and if the Nokia 808 PureView is even better, that's just amazing!! ;)

    Thanks again! :)
    05-01-2013 05:37 AM
  13. how1ard's Avatar
    I had an 808 for 6 months. Correction, I had three. I absolutely loved it and the camera is jaw dropping, the video capacity is even more amazing than the pictures.

    The problem, I had was that with all three as soon as I got the third party apps I wanted on it slowed down, became glitchy and eventually unusable. I had the N8 before it which I also loved but after three 808's I just lost patience with it and accepted Nokia's offer of a 920.
    I miss the amazing camera and Here Drive doesn't have live traffic update which the 808 does (this is pretty unforgivable in my eyes) but all in all as a day to day phone the 920 wins because it works!

    Will pick up an 808 at some point again to use as a camera phone on days out, it really is a brilliant piece of kit but not an everyday phone in my opinion/experience
    05-01-2013 06:15 AM
  14. vlad0's Avatar
    ^ no such problems on mine... the only real issue has been this: Bug in 808 3g mobile data? - Nokia Support Discussions

    But after they rolled out this last week: Belle FP2 devices get a 3G network fix, the 808's 3.5G woes banished

    Its much better.

    vlad0, I spent years making CFWs for Symbian on Dailymobile and other sites. It's not a question of being bored, but more about moving on but I'm gonna miss it. Symbian does so much more than WP and the 808 was/is the best Symbian phone ever so I'm gonna miss it. There's still a chance it won't sell as it has to reach its reserve first but it's not far out.

    If it sells, I'll probably buy another at some point...I miss it already and it hasn't gone! ;)
    Well, in that case you know exactly what Symbian is :)

    and..thanks for you work! I've used numerous CFWs from there for my N8, and my 808...
    Nick_1020 likes this.
    05-01-2013 11:25 AM
  15. JustToClarify's Avatar
    vlad0, I spent years making CFWs for Symbian on Dailymobile and other sites. It's not a question of being bored, but more about moving on but I'm gonna miss it. Symbian does so much more than WP and the 808 was/is the best Symbian phone ever so I'm gonna miss it. There's still a chance it won't sell as it has to reach its reserve first but it's not far out.

    If it sells, I'll probably buy another at some point...I miss it already and it hasn't gone! ;)
    huh, why not keep 808 and buy some Android tablet as those are very cheap nowadays(Nexus is first that comes to mind)? Also browsing gaming and "apping" is a lot more comfortable on a 7/10" screen than on a 4-4.5" phone...if I really needed serious mobile browsing I would do that, Nexus for example would easily fit in a smaller waistbag together with 808...
    Nick_1020 likes this.
    05-01-2013 12:17 PM
  16. vlad0's Avatar
    huh, why not keep 808 and buy some Android tablet as those are very cheap nowadays(Nexus is first that comes to mind)? Also browsing gaming and "apping" is a lot more comfortable on a 7/10" screen than on a 4-4.5" phone...if I really needed serious mobile browsing I would do that, Nexus for example would easily fit in a smaller waistbag together with 808...
    Good point..

    I am actually waiting for a nice Haswell based Windows 8 machine that can last 8-10 hours... and that, together with the 808/EOS should cover the whole spectrum. True.. those will be over $1000 .. but I think it worth it since it will eliminate the need for any other device.. like tablets, cameras, sat nav, laptop, etc. It will be like.. 10 devices into 2..

    Intel's NorthCape design has my full attention... :)

    You could sort of do that now with a Surface Pro/808 combo.. but not quite there yet.
    05-01-2013 01:44 PM
  17. JustToClarify's Avatar
    I know you don't like google adware but we are talking cost-effective here :) So 808 + Nexus would cost ~$600 together and that's the price for only one SGS4, lumia 920, HTC One or IP5...
    05-01-2013 02:03 PM
  18. trinkner's Avatar
    I still use the N8 as my daily phone. With the OS updated to Belle Refresh, it's fast and remarkably stable. Browsing via the Opera browser is extremely fast on my T-Mobile 4G contract or WiFi. The camera and its xenon flash are superb. I do miss the modern apps, though -- although the phone does more or less what I need to do. I'm thinking of switching to WP if an EOS phone comes out this year, but the limitations of WP that I've read about give me a pause.

    Things the N8 does that WP can't (as I understand WP):

    1. Automatically switch from one sound profile to another based on my calendar, time of day, location, etc. As a high-school teacher with different teaching schedules on different days of the week, this is a joy. My phone never rings while I'm teaching, and my ringer is always on while I'm not in class. (I use the "Situations" app for this.) This app also allows me to create a whitelist of acceptable callers, so only important callers (e.g., my family) can wake me up in the middle of the night. It also sends an SMS message to callers when I'm in class, alerting them to my daily schedule of free time. (Well, the whole concept of sound profiles doesn't exist on WP.) This app also puts the phone into non-data power-saving mode at night to save battery charge.

    2. I can print to my HP printer using the HP eprint app. No such app exists yet for WP. Downloading a PDF from the web and printing it via email sounds like a real hassle in WP. From what I gather, you need to use UC Browser to download the PDF to your SkyDrive and then the KumoPrint app to print from SkyDrive to your cloud-enabled printer.

    3. I can download files to my phone and use a file system to manipulate them. I can even attach any file on my phone to an email. I can delete nearly any file on my phone (which of course can be a danger, too).

    4. The N8 slides into my front jeans pocket as if it barely exists. It's rugged, too.

    5. Speed dial. I can call contacts with two "clicks."

    6. The native phone app finds contacts as you type the phone number.

    7. Easily two full days of battery charge, given reasonable phone/web/video/texting use. I generally charge every other night, sometimes every third night.

    The complaints above on this thread about the N8 being slow must be from people who used the first versions of the N8's OS. On Belle Refresh it's very fast.

    The major downside to the N8 are the lack of modern apps. There are some awesome apps, though: Gravity (for Twitter and Facebook), Dorian (epub reader), SkyFiles (SkyDrive access), and ViewRanger (hiking map GPS program that isn't available for WP). There are also good clients for YouTube. The N8's screen is relatively small, but it's still fine enough to watch YouTube videos.

    After hearing yesterday that Sony is coming out with a flagship Android phone with a camera better than the N8's (we'll see...), I may be tempted to jump from the Nokia ship to Sony. On the other hand, if MS can fix some of the weaknesses of WP, I may opt for the upcoming Nokia EOS.
    05-01-2013 02:07 PM
  19. mister2d's Avatar
    Things the N8 does that WP can't (as I understand WP):

    1. Automatically switch from one sound profile to another based on my calendar, time of day, location, etc. As a high-school teacher with different teaching schedules on different days of the week, this is a joy. My phone never rings while I'm teaching, and my ringer is always on while I'm not in class. (I use the "Situations" app for this.) This app also allows me to create a whitelist of acceptable callers, so only important callers (e.g., my family) can wake me up in the middle of the night. It also sends an SMS message to callers when I'm in class, alerting them to my daily schedule of free time. (Well, the whole concept of sound profiles doesn't exist on WP.) This app also puts the phone into non-data power-saving mode at night to save battery charge.
    What you really mean is "Things that Symbian does that WP can't". Let's not confuse the physical device with the operating system. You do bring out an excellent feature point with regards to the power saving. I discovered this yesterday and have been manually toggling power saving mode at night. It saves a bundle of power on my 808. So far I can get 2 days of use which includes bluetooth streaming audio in Car Mode for my commute, traffic gps map on the commute home, and light Facebook checks in the evening.

    I'm interested in using the power-saving mode in the way you are. Time for more fun exploring.

    2. I can print to my HP printer using the HP eprint app. No such app exists yet for WP. Downloading a PDF from the web and printing it via email sounds like a real hassle in WP. From what I gather, you need to use UC Browser to download the PDF to your SkyDrive and then the KumoPrint app to print from SkyDrive to your cloud-enabled printer.
    Yes, one does exist. I have used it to print and to scan physical items (like my driver's license). You used the HP eprint app on Symbian? I used the Brother Print & Scan app on Windows Phone on my 920. Since I don't have an HP Printer, I haven't checked for an app from them.

    The complaints above on this thread about the N8 being slow must be from people who used the first versions of the N8's OS. On Belle Refresh it's very fast.
    No. As I stated more than twice, I updated to the latest N8 OS. It is still too slow overall especially coming from a modern phone (ie the 920 as stated in the title).
    05-01-2013 03:22 PM
  20. trinkner's Avatar
    I think the printer-brand-specific apps (like the Brother app for Brother printers, or the HP app for HP printers) only work for those companies' respective printers. I think the KumoPrint app uses Google's Cloud Print to access any printer configurable to the service.

    But yes, I use HP's eprint app on Symbian. It worked like a charm on Belle v1, but Belle Refresh changed the file system somehow. At first I thought HP's app could no longer navigate the file system because it would only show one folder on my phone's E drive. But then by accidentally screwing around with the app, I learned that you could drill into the one directory shown and then back up the directory structure... and ... voila... all the drive's contents would then be visible. So the HP app does work on Belle Refresh; it only needs a little weird user behavior to use it properly.

    @Mister2D: Would you recommend switching to WP from Symbian Belle Refresh? It seems that you and I have similar attitudes and uses for our phones. I don't yet have experience owning a WP, but my son loves his WP 7.5 HTC Radar and I've fiddled with it a bit (well, as much as a teenager will let his father fiddle with his phone).
    05-01-2013 04:12 PM
  21. mister2d's Avatar
    @Mister2D: Would you recommend switching to WP from Symbian Belle Refresh? It seems that you and I have similar attitudes and uses for our phones. I don't yet have experience owning a WP, but my son loves his WP 7.5 HTC Radar and I've fiddled with it a bit (well, as much as a teenager will let his father fiddle with his phone).
    In your case I don't think it would be a bad switch from Symbian to Windows Phone. You would feel a bit limited at first as you find out that a lot of the flexibility you once had in Symbian is now gone. Especially the power saving features and the volume controls. Windows Phone uses one volume for all things. After that, you would probably get over it in a few months. The browser is useable on any site (I don't count sites with Flash), even Javascript heavy sites like theverge, so that's a big plus.

    I don't find Nokia Drive on WP to be functionally equivalent to the one on Symbian. Things like lane guidance, traffic, and voices are all better on Symbian. For instance on my 920 using Nokia Drive, the nav voice mutes the music then BLASTS its directions. I wish there were separate volume controls but there aren't. There isn't even live traffic on Nokia Drive for WP8. It wasn't there for WP 7.5 either (I had the Lumia 900). What was there on the WP 7.5 was a weird implementation from Nokia that "learned" your commute patterns first, then it would give you traffic data. That sucked! If you wanted to go anywhere else, there wasn't an option for traffic info.

    All in all, my experience tells me that there is nothing to push someone off of Symbian just yet to WP, assuming you are working with the more modern 808.
    05-01-2013 05:42 PM
  22. vlad0's Avatar
    ^ another thing that I find better on sym (in terms of sat nav) compared to all other platforms is that you can run Google Maps and Nokia Maps natively, at the same time, so you basically have the two most complete indexing/navigating systems out there all in your hand.

    yes, I knowthat iOS has "here" maps+ g maps as well.. but they are a far cry from Nokia Maps on Symbian and WP.

    All in all, my experience tells me that there is nothing to push someone off of Symbian just yet to WP, assuming you are working with the more modern 808.
    That would vary depending on what kind of user you are. Some people care about games, fluid UX, fast browser.. or just having a phone that their friends can relate to (in apple's case..) ..

    But others, such as yourself, care more about convergence.. I am on that side of the spectrum as well. I would much rather have an ugly looking swiss army knife, than a pretty single blade.

    Also, you really need to know how to use it.. I've been using Symbian for years, so I know my way around it.. but if you give it to an iOS or WP user, they might struggle a bit.

    I know you don't like google adware but we are talking cost-effective here :) So 808 + Nexus would cost ~$600 together and that's the price for only one SGS4, lumia 920, HTC One or IP5...
    Spot on :)

    @ $400 the 808 is a bargain.. the camera tech alone is worth that much
    05-01-2013 06:30 PM
  23. Nick_1020's Avatar
    Hmmm the 808 didn't sell. Reserve not met..but it wasn't far out. In a quandary now. Do I keep it or relist? I love the 808 but far happier with the app situation and continued improvements for WP8 on the 920. I just can't see myself carrying around two phones even if one of them has an amazing camera.

    May put a thread in the marketplace here and give it another 3 days on eBay. If it doesn't sell, I'll keep hold of it.
    05-01-2013 06:47 PM
  24. Nick_1020's Avatar
    huh, why not keep 808 and buy some Android tablet as those are very cheap nowadays(Nexus is first that comes to mind)? Also browsing gaming and "apping" is a lot more comfortable on a 7/10" screen than on a 4-4.5" phone...if I really needed serious mobile browsing I would do that, Nexus for example would easily fit in a smaller waistbag together with 808...
    Not too keen on anything Android. We bought our daughter a Nexus 7 for Christmas and although I think it's a neat bit of kit with plenty of features for the price, I don't feel comfortable with 'Google' in my pocket as well :) When I'm out and about, I only really want to be taking my phone with me except in circumstances when the laptop is needed.

    Thanks for the suggestion though.
    05-01-2013 06:56 PM
  25. JustToClarify's Avatar
    excuse my curiosity but what's so important to do on the web when you are on the go that Opera Mini/Mobile on 808 can't digest? I do know 808 is a bit slow when opening bloated sites like verge etc. but there is none of those that can't wait me to come home :) all the basic mobile needs are covered IMO, now if you do some spefically web-connected job(not many of those that spring to mind) that's another story...
    05-01-2013 07:12 PM
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