[mister2d]

So, I recently bought an N8. Why, do you ask? After purchasing the Lumia 900 on day one, and then the 920 on day one, I was left with this feeling that Nokia is the most interesting company I was never exposed to before. To me now, Nokia means great user innovations, deep sense of individuality, and style. I've heard of Nokia before my stints with Apple and Motorola phones, but they didn't have much of a presence here in the US despite being the #1 phone maker for a long time.

Ok, about the 920 to N8 transition. I'll cover the first 3 days. Thanks to Amazon I received my new in box N8 the next day. The particulars of the unboxing I'm sure are well documented. Nokia gives you all the cables you need (hdmi out, usb on the go cable, headphones, a charger, and usb cable). Judging just by what comes in the box, I can't help but feel stiffed by the last two AT&T Lumias. The only thing useful included there are SIM door keys.

For the first 6 or so hours, the N8 is charging since the battery appeared to be thoroughly depleted as it was sitting on a shelf somewhere for years unopened. After about half a day I come back to check the progress and the battery is less than 25% charged. Pretty disappointed at this point as I was using the wall charger and not USB. Eventually I get it charged and all is good.

My first impression of Symbian as I fired it up was that, wow I'm in the stone age! This was mostly because everything was so pokey and slow. But I didn't let that deter me, I knew what I was getting into. With ease I was able to connect up to my Gmail migrated Outlook calendar, email, contacts, and todo's without a hitch. Not too shabby for an old phone with Microsoft cloud sync capabilities. To be honest, I really wanted to experience why Symbian lovers gnashed their teeth at Nokia's Windows Phone direction. On the outside, Symbian appeared to me as a tired soul.

Using Symbian on the N8 didn't help its case. The browser, way too slow, and scrolling pages were a lag fest. Browsing on the Lumia 920 is one thing I enjoy. I never feel the need to get a desktop/tablet grade browser to view what I want. So what were the things I liked about the Nokia N8? It turns out I don't like anything physically about the phone. I thought I would, but no. About Symbian? It's seemingly unending customization of user preferences and flexibility. Among my first looks, FM Radio, FM Radio broadcast, built-in tethering, built-in mass storage mode, useful widgets, etc. I love all this about Symbian! I can REALLY see now how those who love legacy Nokia phones scoff at anything that smells of Elop. In my opinion, Symbian could have still been built upon and greatly improved. Maybe not so much for us US folk, but for the rest of the world, and really for anyone else who has an open mind and hasn't lost objectivity by buying only Apple products.

To conclude on this post, how does my few days of Symbian and N8 experience fair?

I returned the N8. It's just too slow at performing tasks. Symbian however sparked more curiosity as I don't think the N8 presents it well, or itself. I took some pictures and compared them with my 920. I liked the 920 more. Perhaps I didn't thoroughly give the N8 camera a run through, but I couldn't get anything good out of it. I've posted some beautiful pics from my 920 in the pictures thread. I couldn't get it done with the N8. So, yeah, back it goes.

What do I do now. I still want to play around with Symbian. I was always intrigued with physical keyboards. Maybe the Nokia E7? Nope. After reading the specs on the E7, it's the same as the N8. In other words, SLOW.

Enter the 808 PureView. I've had it for two days. Maybe I'll post on my experience with it coming from a 920 if you guys care.

[WorzelGummage]

I had an N8 for two years as a main daily driver (I've still got it for its HDMI output capabilities) and will agree that Symbian can make you want to throw the phone up the wall when it decides to lag. However, with the latest version of Symbian Belle Refresh it's not so bad anymore. But it is still prehistoric compared to other OS's on the market. By the way, I've taken some brilliant shots with the N8 and an older Nokia 5800 Xpress Music.

[mister2d]

That's what I feared. I didn't give the N8 a full run of the camera. I took about 5 pics along with my 920 and decided it was not good enough to keep.

[Coreldan]

I used the N8 for over two years as my main phone too and I loved that thing. I love WP and L920 too, but if I could have the N8 with modern hardware with enough punch, I wouldn't really hesitate.

[Nick_1020]

The N8 was my last but one phone, previous was the 808 PureView and I'm currently using the 920 (as my username suggests).

I liked the N8 but it wasn't without its pitfalls. It would be interesting to know what firmware you had when you took it out of the box and used it for the brief period you had it. The older firmwares were absolutely dreadful in most areas, but the latest available brought in quite a few improvements in stability and performance. I disagree with your comments on the camera. I feel the N8 blows the 920 away in all areas except for low light. Some of the photos I have taken on the N8 still impress me now. Now on to the pitfalls. The browser, whilst improved in more recent firmwares is still one of the weakest areas for Symbian. Flash support is nice but web pages lag and it crashes regularly. There is a real lack of oomph in the phone as well. The processor and amount of RAM are sub-standard for a phone with the features that it has. I feel the N8 should have been blessed with the 808's CPU/RAM and the 808 could have been improved further.

Another benefit is that Symbian is hackable and the CFWs for both the N8 and 808 bring further improvements and root access so if you decide to stick with the 808, it's worth bearing this in mind. It's fairly straight forward to put a CFW together yourself for that extra personalisation plus you can integrate and remove any apps you wish. I would love to hear your comments on the 808's camera compared to the 920. Even in automatic mode (5MP), the 808 is noticeably better than both the N8 and 920 imho.

My 808 is currently on eBay and it'll be very sad to see it go when it sells. I could keep it for nostalgia and as a decent camera option but it just doesn't make sense to carry two phones around everywhere.

[nokia3660]

I am one among the few who moved to L920 from an N8.Other than the occasional lag and lack of apps I absolutely loved my N8. It was built like a tank and I lost count of how many times I had dropped it. Symbian do have its own tricks up its sleeves which still make me feel left out on my L920.

I still have my N8 and carry it around for trips as a camera/music player since the battery on my L920 sucks big time.

[WanderingTraveler]

Damn, I wanted that N8 badly (._.)

Since you still have the 808 PureView (and it's massive 41 MP camera), here are some things you should read:
One year on and the 808, the 'ultimate' Symbian smartphone is... even better
How to make jaws drop in 20 seconds with your Nokia 808 PureView
10 under-appreciated design features of the Nokia 808 PureView

All written by Steve Litchfield. (Who, I must say, is a great writer)
Good luck with the ultimate camera phone!
P.S. If you somehow don't have a use for it anymore, could you give it to me?

Oh, and some 808's have a hardware defect that has something to do with 3G. A broken capacitor.

[WorzelGummage]

The N8 was my last but one phone, previous was the 808 PureView and I'm currently using the 920 (as my username suggests).

I liked the N8 but it wasn't without its pitfalls. It would be interesting to know what firmware you had when you took it out of the box and used it for the brief period you had it. The older firmwares were absolutely dreadful in most areas, but the latest available brought in quite a few improvements in stability and performance. I disagree with your comments on the camera. I feel the N8 blows the 920 away in all areas except for low light. Some of the photos I have taken on the N8 still impress me now. Now on to the pitfalls. The browser, whilst improved in more recent firmwares is still one of the weakest areas for Symbian. Flash support is nice but web pages lag and it crashes regularly. There is a real lack of oomph in the phone as well. The processor and amount of RAM are sub-standard for a phone with the features that it has. I feel the N8 should have been blessed with the 808's CPU/RAM and the 808 could have been improved further.

Another benefit is that Symbian is hackable and the CFWs for both the N8 and 808 bring further improvements and root access so if you decide to stick with the 808, it's worth bearing this in mind. It's fairly straight forward to put a CFW together yourself for that extra personalisation plus you can integrate and remove any apps you wish. I would love to hear your comments on the 808's camera compared to the 920. Even in automatic mode (5MP), the 808 is noticeably better than both the N8 and 920 imho.

My 808 is currently on eBay and it'll be very sad to see it go when it sells. I could keep it for nostalgia and as a decent camera option but it just doesn't make sense to carry two phones around everywhere.

I usually carry two phones around with me because I feel that there isn't a phone around (yet) that fulfills all of my needs. When my N8 was my main phone I also had the original Galaxy S but neither phone stood out as being better than the other. The N8's camera, HDMI port, FM Transmitter, notification light and Sleeping screen saver meant that I used it as my main phone. The SGS though was faster and had miles more apps available so I had the best of both worlds.

It's the same story today with me owning a Galaxy S 3 and a 920. Also, I can't bear to part with any of my old phones and I've even got my old 5800 XM still knocking around and occasionally used for internet radio.

[mister2d]

Damn, I wanted that N8 badly (._.)

Since you still have the 808 PureView (and it's massive 41 MP camera), here are some things you should read:
One year on and the 808, the 'ultimate' Symbian smartphone is... even better
How to make jaws drop in 20 seconds with your Nokia 808 PureView
10 under-appreciated design features of the Nokia 808 PureView

All written by Steve Litchfield. (Who, I must say, is a great writer)
Good luck with the ultimate camera phone!
P.S. If you somehow don't have a use for it anymore, could you give it to me?

Oh, and some 808's have a hardware defect that has something to do with 3G. A broken capacitor.

You really wanted my N8? :) That phone is god awful slow. I even updated it to the latest firmware. I admit, while it was an improvement, the browser just drove me bonkers.

Now that I've survived a few days with the 808. Let me say this. The 808 PureView is one fantastic phone! From the moment I unboxed it. Just oozed quality. I picked up a new red one. The back texture feels like the mildest grit sandpaper you can find. Perfect! What the heck happened Nokia?? :( I'm still picking up on Nokia's heritage, but they are pretty DUMB for not pushing this phone more. Even just a little bit more, and I haven't even gotten to testing the camera yet.

My Lumia 920 will have to wait a good bit longer before I put the sim card back.

I'll go through those links to get more of an experience and report back.

[Mark Potts]

The reviewer is being unkind to the N8 and so I want to play devil's advocate here. He would barely have had time to set the phone up. I bet it was still on pre-Anna Symbian. The N8 became a much slicker user experience with Belle. The built-in browser is known to be a bit basic. That's why experienced users go for the Opera browsers. Okay, I'll grant that you will be used to a slicker browsing experience on a decent Android phone etc. However, with the N8 camera, once you know how to use it and are aware of it's limitations, you can take some pretty decent shots. The obligatory flower shot. A depth of field shot. Another one. Self portrait. No post-processing. Those shots are typical of what you get with the N8 camera. It's not DSLR quality but I'd bet that there are very few phones that can compete.

Also, it takes about an hour to fully charge and that will easily last a working day on full-power or a couple of days or so on power-save mode. And let's not forget what a rugged beast it is. It feels like a real sturdy piece of kit in the hand. Very nice. However, not only didn't the reviewer like the 12MP camera but he claims that he didn't like anything physical about the phone. Presumably he doesn't like expandable memory, HDMI output, transfer of files direct from USB (via the small cable connector) in and out of the phone's 16Gb internal memory or whatever SD card is inserted, fantastic sound quality through the headphone jack, or even the small strap-hole that is missing from the Lumia phones? What about the fact it's actually a damn good phone with very clear sound both in and out?

If I said that the reviewer is being unkind then it's because I've been using my N8 for over two years and I feel that it's been one of the most reliable (it never crashes) and useful devices I've ever bought. So, put that in your pipe and smoke it! hehe

[Loco5150]

"My first impression of Symbian as I fired it up was that, wow I'm in the stone age!"

Made me laugh

[JustToClarify]

The reviewer is being unkind to the N8 and so I want to play devil's advocate here. He would barely have had time to set the phone up. I bet it was still on pre-Anna Symbian. The N8 became a much slicker user experience with Belle. The built-in browser is known to be a bit basic. That's why experienced users go for the Opera browsers. Okay, I'll grant that you will be used to a slicker browsing experience on a decent Android phone etc. However, with the N8 camera, once you know how to use it and are aware of it's limitations, you can take some pretty decent shots. The obligatory flower shot. A depth of field shot. Another one. Self portrait. No post-processing. Those shots are typical of what you get with the N8 camera. It's not DSLR quality but I'd bet that there are very few phones that can compete.

Also, it takes about an hour to fully charge and that will easily last a working day on full-power or a couple of days or so on power-save mode. And let's not forget what a rugged beast it is. It feels like a real sturdy piece of kit in the hand. Very nice. However, not only didn't the reviewer like the 12MP camera but he claims that he didn't like anything physical about the phone. Presumably he doesn't like expandable memory, HDMI output, transfer of files direct from USB (via the small cable connector) in and out of the phone's 16Gb internal memory or whatever SD card is inserted, fantastic sound quality through the headphone jack, or even the small strap-hole that is missing from the Lumia phones? What about the fact it's actually a damn good phone with very clear sound both in and out?

If I said that the reviewer is being unkind then it's because I've been using my N8 for over two years and I feel that it's been one of the most reliable (it never crashes) and useful devices I've ever bought. So, put that in your pipe and smoke it! hehe

+1, you also forgot radio transmitter, you can listen to songs in your car(or anywhere) and transmit all the sound to the radio, very very useful, also navigation is good and the phone will silent the music when navigation is active and bring it back later, neat

[WanderingTraveler]

You really wanted my N8? :) That phone is god awful slow. I even updated it to the latest firmware. I admit, while it was an improvement, the browser just drove me bonkers.

Now that I've survived a few days with the 808. Let me say this. The 808 PureView is one fantastic phone! From the moment I unboxed it. Just oozed quality. I picked up a new red one. The back texture feels like the mildest grit sandpaper you can find. Perfect! What the heck happened Nokia?? :( I'm still picking up on Nokia's heritage, but they are pretty DUMB for not pushing this phone more. Even just a little bit more, and I haven't even gotten to testing the camera yet.

My Lumia 920 will have to wait a good bit longer before I put the sim card back.

I'll go through those links to get more of an experience and report back.

If I was talking to you, the tone of my voice while I was talking about wanting that N8 was somewhat carefree. Then, when I was asking you about giving the 808 when you didn't need it anymore, you'd be able to tell that my tone had changed to desperation.

Ten desires aside, you'd be better off trying a phone with an EDoF camera as a backup. This comes from someone who's used EDoF cameras all his life and misses not having to focus.

And, have you taken advantage of the sleeping screen yet?

[mister2d]

The reviewer is being unkind to the N8 and so I want to play devil's advocate here. He would barely have had time to set the phone up. I bet it was still on pre-Anna Symbian. The N8 became a much slicker user experience with Belle. The built-in browser is known to be a bit basic. That's why experienced users go for the Opera browsers. Okay, I'll grant that you will be used to a slicker browsing experience on a decent Android phone etc. However, with the N8 camera, once you know how to use it and are aware of it's limitations, you can take some pretty decent shots. The obligatory flower shot. A depth of field shot. Another one. Self portrait. No post-processing. Those shots are typical of what you get with the N8 camera. It's not DSLR quality but I'd bet that there are very few phones that can compete.

Also, it takes about an hour to fully charge and that will easily last a working day on full-power or a couple of days or so on power-save mode. And let's not forget what a rugged beast it is. It feels like a real sturdy piece of kit in the hand. Very nice. However, not only didn't the reviewer like the 12MP camera but he claims that he didn't like anything physical about the phone. Presumably he doesn't like expandable memory, HDMI output, transfer of files direct from USB (via the small cable connector) in and out of the phone's 16Gb internal memory or whatever SD card is inserted, fantastic sound quality through the headphone jack, or even the small strap-hole that is missing from the Lumia phones? What about the fact it's actually a damn good phone with very clear sound both in and out?

If I said that the reviewer is being unkind then it's because I've been using my N8 for over two years and I feel that it's been one of the most reliable (it never crashes) and useful devices I've ever bought. So, put that in your pipe and smoke it! hehe

Ah yes, I was definitely "unkind" as you say. You know what really bugged me about this particular N8? I really wanted the E7. Plain and simple. I wanted to try that physical keyboard and admire it's workmanship. But, I couldn't get it as fast as the N8, plus I wanted to see for myself what the camera buzz was about concerning it. Your pictures are excellent by the way.

Also, yes, I did upgrade to Anna. I upgraded every single software piece I could find, as a matter of fact. It was better, but still unacceptable. Now that I've put some real time into Symbian with my 808, I can see that I probably could have sped up the built-in browser by turning off Java AND Flash! I didn't know how to do that, and I'm still trying to figure out how to do it now on my 808.

The rest of your suggestions, HDMI, expandable memory, USB mass storage, etc didn't come into play. Again, the overall performance was too much to bear.


Here's some other things about the N8 that turned me off:
-The first charge took almost 12 hours on the wall charger. (probably tired battery cells)
-Physical home button is off to the bottom left. Probably more practical for a left handed person?
-Physical home button light bleeds when using a third party lock screen clock

Here's what I did like:

-You are correct, the headphone jack is of audiophile quality. I didn't mention it here because I didn't think the audience would appreciate. The headphone jack is superb. It gets loud, the sound quality sticks with driving my 53mm headphone drivers. :)
-The rest of what I liked are Symbian specific.

[mister2d]

If I was talking to you, the tone of my voice while I was talking about wanting that N8 was somewhat carefree. Then, when I was asking you about giving the 808 when you didn't need it anymore, you'd be able to tell that my tone had changed to desperation.

Ten desires aside, you'd be better off trying a phone with an EDoF camera as a backup. This comes from someone who's used EDoF cameras all his life and misses not having to focus.

And, have you taken advantage of the sleeping screen yet?

Not to worry. I picked up on your tone correctly. Hence the smiley.

Concerning the 808, I'm not certain I want to give it up. I like it a lot. Want my 920?

An EDoF camera? If you mean for me to get an E7, then I agree. That's what I wanted to explore legacy Nokia phones with in the first place.

[WanderingTraveler]

Not to worry. I picked up on your tone correctly. Hence the smiley.

Concerning the 808, I'm not certain I want to give it up. I like it a lot. Want my 920?

An EDoF camera? If you mean for me to get an E7, then I agree. That's what I wanted to explore legacy Nokia phones with in the first place.

Not the E7. There's too many compromises involved.
I'd recommend the Nokia 700 or 701.
The 700 for its AMOLED screen.
The 701 for its specs.
They're just as fast as the 808, but have EDoF cameras.

[mister2d]

+1, you also forgot radio transmitter, you can listen to songs in your car(or anywhere) and transmit all the sound to the radio, very very useful, also navigation is good and the phone will silent the music when navigation is active and bring it back later, neat

Not if you are streaming everything with Bluetooth. When using the navigation app while streaming, it first stops the streaming audio, then plays the navigation voice out of the back speaker of the phone. Looks like a bug from my Google searches.

This happens on my 808 as well. Not cool, but not a deal breaker. The speaker gets pretty loud! A plus in my book. Why do so many of these modern phones have wimpy loudspeakers?

[mister2d]

Not the E7. There's too many compromises involved.
I'd recommend the Nokia 700 or 701.
The 700 for its AMOLED screen.
The 701 for its specs.
They're just as fast as the 808, but have EDoF cameras.

Good suggestions, however if I were to continue to explore backwards the phone would have to have an excellent physical keyboard. From what I can tell, the E7 is the only option.

[WanderingTraveler]

Good suggestions, however if I were to continue to explore backwards the phone would have to have an excellent physical keyboard. From what I can tell, the E7 is the only option.

If you want to, you may as well get the E6. Or opt for its predecessors, the E71 and E72.
Want an unusual yet usable design? N70 is the way to go.

Though, the E7 is a good choice.

(If you want to screw around with the N-Gage service, scout around for phones running on S60 3.1 such as the N95 or E71)

[WanderingTraveler]

Why do so many of these modern phones have wimpy loudspeakers?

Uh, maybe because we're so preoccupied with keeping our phones thin that we sacrifice a lot?

[12Danny123]

at least you can wait for the Nokia EOS :-)

[mister2d]

at least you can wait for the Nokia EOS :-)

I'm waiting, but I won't hold my breath. I've been spoiled by Symbian, and it's only been a few days.

Do you think EOS will have:

Stereo HAAC microphones
FM Radio
FM Transmitter
Various USB modes (mass storage, usb on the go, modem)
High MP camera sensor for lossless zoom
AMOLED or Super AMOLED
Car Mode
VOIP built-in client
VPN

[WanderingTraveler]

I'm waiting, but I won't hold my breath. I've been spoiled by Symbian, and it's only been a few days.

Do you think EOS will have:

Stereo HAAC microphones
FM Radio
FM Transmitter
Various USB modes (mass storage, usb on the go, modem)
High MP camera sensor for lossless zoom
AMOLED or Super AMOLED
Car Mode
VOIP built-in client
VPN

All the WP8 Lumias (except 520) have the same microphone as the 808. However, they don't support stereo recording yet.
Okay, what I'm sure of is that Nokia will bring the FM Radio back to WP8. However, I don't think there will be an FM transmitter.
The USB modes, car mode and VPN are stuff you won't see on WP.
As for the lossless zoom thing, what do you expect? This will be (according to rumors) included. Duh.
AMOLED is something we're on the fence on. Should the 928 have an AMOLED screen, there will be no doubt that the EOS will have one.
A built-in VOIP client is something we're waiting for. (SKYPE)

[mister2d]

All the WP8 Lumias (except 520) have the same microphone as the 808. However, they don't support stereo recording yet.
Okay, what I'm sure of is that Nokia will bring the FM Radio back to WP8. However, I don't think there will be an FM transmitter.
The USB modes, car mode and VPN are stuff you won't see on WP.
As for the lossless zoom thing, what do you expect? This will be (according to rumors) included. Duh.
AMOLED is something we're on the fence on. Should the 928 have an AMOLED screen, there will be no doubt that the EOS will have one.
A built-in VOIP client is something we're waiting for. (SKYPE)

I think if Nokia continues their tradition of differentiating their products from the rest I would be OK. There is a trend of removing features that were once there.

The USB modes and VOIP (not Skype) are features I think are very doable for WP. I mean, why not? The closed architecture of an iOS is certainly not one I think Microsoft wants to follow.

[WanderingTraveler]

I think if Nokia continues their tradition of differentiating their products from the rest I would be OK. There is a trend of removing features that were once there.

The USB modes and VOIP (not Skype) are features I think are very doable for WP. I mean, why not? The closed architecture of an iOS is certainly not one I think Microsoft wants to follow.

Uh, the USB modes are a Symbian tradition.
That's why I'm not leaning on that.

If you really wanted to pull off all USB modes on WP, you'd have to:
1. Make Nokia Suite work with WP (or a suitable replacement)
2. Allow USB Tethering
3. Make the OS compatible with USB devices
4. Add a file system (mass storage)