[savagelizards]

@savage,

Honest questions here. It sounds like you do a lot of work from home. I'm curious as to why you use your phone so much when you should be using a computer? If you're out that much and need to do that much work, you should probably be using the Internet Sharing on your phone, so that you can use a tablet. Honestly, I think of my phone as a.... phone. If I'm out and I need to make a note on a document or a quote, I have OneNote and Office365 for simple, quick updates or notations. If I need to get some serious work done, I have my Surface for that.

As far as the proximity sensor on your phone, yeah it sounds like it is bad. Or, you have the call volume cranked up so loud, you tilting the ear speaker away from your face and allowing the screen to come back on. Even then, that's stretching it. If your ear is touching the End button, disconnecting your call, the sensor is bad. Your ear should not get close enough to the screen to disconnect the call.

Fair point, and I do use WiFi and Internet sharing with my Surface Pro quite a bit. Still, I spend a lot of my time at different properties, and maybe my tablet is in my car or in my bag.

I guess also expectations are based on what I had before. If I know that I already have done something, it's okay for me to expect that I can do it now, only better.

Two of my favorite things about the Icon are the screen and the keyboard. I like the screen because it allows me to read documents wherever I am. I like the keyboard because I can type much more quickly than I used to with my Razr Maxx. I am posting this from my phone rather than my SP, which is in the other room charging.

Of course, if I am not going to use the phone for more of what I used to use a computer for, then I don't need a bigger screen and roomy, speedy keyboard. I could just carry an iPhone. It makes calls and has apps.

I am looking for more out of my mobile device then for it to simply be an iPhone. I want my phone to be a junior version of my SP. I want the compromise on device size to be offset by convenience. The power is there in the hardware side. This is a true mobile computer. It's the software side that's lacking.

Hopefully WP 8.1 will be the game changer...

[jleebiker]

I didn't say it was useless, I was pointing out an example of an app that they went to the trouble of writing, but then didn't add the same features as the other OS's.

[Markham Ranja]

Of course, if I am not going to use the phone for more of what I used to use a computer for, then I don't need a bigger screen and roomy, speedy keyboard. I could just carry an iPhone. It makes calls and has apps.

I am looking for more out of my mobile device then for it to simply be an iPhone. I want my phone to be a junior version of my SP. I want the compromise on device size to be offset by convenience. The power is there in the hardware side. This is a true mobile computer. It's the software side that's lacking.

Hopefully WP 8.1 will be the game changer...

Such devices already exist, in the form of Android phones. Now bear with me... I did see the post where you said you want to get away from Google and I sympathise, having bought my L920 (full price even) for much the same reason. I was similarly disappointed by the lack of core OS functionality and some apps. I don't care about having any of these Candy Crush or whatever apps, but no Uber? Come on!

So I got a Nexus 5. You have the option of getting a custom ROM if you really want to make sure all ties with Google are cut, but that's not really necessary because stock Android is quite good now. So what I did was create a throwaway Google account, especially for the phone. That is used ONLY so I can download apps from the Play Store. That account has never received email or been used anywhere else. I don't use Google Drive or Gmail or any other Google service on the phone, except for Google Maps, and I turn off GPS and Location Services when I'm not using them. For email and other things, there are plenty of apps, even the Outlook app. I have my own domain and email. I use the MS Office 365 app which is very good, since I am an Office customer.

I think this keeps me away from Google while allowing me to attach whatever I want to an email. Not really perfect, but it'll have to do. Hoping that 8.1 will finally make WP usable for me.

[Kashan Osama]

I guess WP must allow devs APIs to fully expand their apps functionalities,and integration with atleast basic apps like calender mail messages reminders etc just like iOS,in iOS apps can virtually do anything in their "closed" sandbox,that is why iOS has some extremely groundbreaking apps
​

[savagelizards]

Such devices already exist, in the form of Android phones. Now bear with me... I did see the post where you said you want to get away from Google and I sympathise, having bought my L920 (full price even) for much the same reason. I was similarly disappointed by the lack of core OS functionality and some apps. I don't care about having any of these Candy Crush or whatever apps, but no Uber? Come on!

So I got a Nexus 5. You have the option of getting a custom ROM if you really want to make sure all ties with Google are cut, but that's not really necessary because stock Android is quite good now. So what I did was create a throwaway Google account, especially for the phone. That is used ONLY so I can download apps from the Play Store. That account has never received email or been used anywhere else. I don't use Google Drive or Gmail or any other Google service on the phone, except for Google Maps, and I turn off GPS and Location Services when I'm not using them. For email and other things, there are plenty of apps, even the Outlook app. I have my own domain and email. I use the MS Office 365 app which is very good, since I am an Office customer.

I think this keeps me away from Google while allowing me to attach whatever I want to an email. Not really perfect, but it'll have to do. Hoping that 8.1 will finally make WP usable for me.

There is a lot of truth in what you just said... If I am Microsoft, am I responding to it?

[crystal_planet]

There is a lot of truth in what you just said... If I am Microsoft, am I responding to it?

Am I missing something here? He likes his Nexus because he can strip down the o/s and use his Microsoft services? Or is it all about email attachments? Is that what you want Microsoft to respond to?

I'm going to give some free advice: run, don't walk to the store and trade your Icon in on a Nexus or Galaxy. I don't think 8.1 is going to do it for you - I may be wrong, but just based on what you've said in this thread, you're bound to be disappointed. Even if 8.1 has some sort of file manager, it may not be exactly what you want, and you may leave anyway.

Just like the Netflix app someone was complaining about. Because you can't use multiple accounts, it's somehow vastly inferior to the other o/s versions.

[savagelizards]

Am I missing something here? He likes his Nexus because he can strip down the o/s and use his Microsoft services? Or is it all about email attachments? Is that what you want Microsoft to respond to?

I'm going to give some free advice: run, don't walk to the store and trade your Icon in on a Nexus or Galaxy. I don't think 8.1 is going to do it for you - I may be wrong, but just based on what you've said in this thread, you're bound to be disappointed. Even if 8.1 has some sort of file manager, it may not be exactly what you want, and you may leave anyway.

Just like the Netflix app someone was complaining about. Because you can't use multiple accounts, it's somehow vastly inferior to the other o/s versions.

Hmmm... I may have misquoted myself then. I believe that I was asking why Microsoft hadn't built a competitive mobile OS, when they have business units that already solve the same problems.

I believe Microsoft is fully capable, but they have not yet done so, and in a way that I couldn't fully appreciate until I was living with the product.

There are many good things about this phone, but I am not wrong for expecting a flagship phone to have competitive features? After all, I am not being hard on a group of overachievers who almost got it and deserve my respect. This is Microsoft.
This is more like if you're a Canadian and your Olympic hockey squad only got a bronze medal. You would want to know why, right? Microsoft invented this game. They have been building mobile OSes longer than any of their competitors. Why is it wrong to expect them can build the best product? Or that I should expect that they should?

I don't want another phone, just that this phone does what other phones do well.

[tgp]

Hmmm... I may have misquoted myself then. I believe that I was asking why Microsoft hadn't built a competitive mobile OS, when they have business units that already solve the same problems.

I suspect that Microsoft purposely left a lot of these features out of WP, thinking that they weren't necessary. Obviously they are perfectly capable of including them in WP, and because of market demands they are now doing exactly that. Look at all the new features in GDR 3 & the upcoming WP8.1. Microsoft discovered that whether or not these features are necessary, the users are asking for them.

[mariusmuntean]

I suspect that Microsoft purposely left a lot of these features out of WP, thinking that they weren't necessary. Obviously they are perfectly capable of including them in WP, and because of market demands they are now doing exactly that. Look at all the new features in GDR 3 & the upcoming WP8.1. Microsoft discovered that whether or not these features are necessary, the users are asking for them.

Correct

[Markham Ranja]

Am I missing something here? He likes his Nexus because he can strip down the o/s and use his Microsoft services? Or is it all about email attachments? Is that what you want Microsoft to respond to?

I'm going to give some free advice: run, don't walk to the store and trade your Icon in on a Nexus or Galaxy. I don't think 8.1 is going to do it for you - I may be wrong, but just based on what you've said in this thread, you're bound to be disappointed. Even if 8.1 has some sort of file manager, it may not be exactly what you want, and you may leave anyway.

Just like the Netflix app someone was complaining about. Because you can't use multiple accounts, it's somehow vastly inferior to the other o/s versions.

Both, actually. It gives me the best of both worlds - a phone using Microsoft services while not compromising on core OS functionality. Something which Nokia (and MS), with the X series, have also settled on.

Also, if you don't understand the utility of Netflix user profiles (profiles, not accounts), you've clearly never used Netflix before (or at least never shared a Netflix account with friends and family).

[bayanii]

I didn't say it was useless, I was pointing out an example of an app that they went to the trouble of writing, but then didn't add the same features as the other OS's.

The limitation is from the developer. Right? Not the OS.

[savagelizards]

I suspect that Microsoft purposely left a lot of these features out of WP, thinking that they weren't necessary. Obviously they are perfectly capable of including them in WP, and because of market demands they are now doing exactly that. Look at all the new features in GDR 3 & the upcoming WP8.1. Microsoft discovered that whether or not these features are necessary, the users are asking for them.

I hope you are correct. I went into the Icon knowing that there was an update on the way, and that's what I am waiting for.

Why they would have thought some of this stuff is unnecessary is beyond me.

[savagelizards]

The limitation is from the developer. Right? Not the OS.

Sometimes that's true, but sometimes limitations are due to a lack of integration with the OS that Microsoft is responsible for.

That said, the end user doesn't care who is to blame. They just know their
phone doesn't do what they want it to.

Apps are like children. If the son breaks the shop window, the father is responsible to pay for it. Bad apps reflect poorly on the OS, and on the curator of the app store - both of which are Microsoft.

Don't get me wrong, I think Microsoft knows they are screwing up here. Hopefully the new team and the One Microsoft plan will be the solution.

[tgp]

The limitation is from the developer. Right? Not the OS.

Not necessarily. Did you see this thread? Sometimes the developers don't include features because it's not possible.

And like savagelizards said, it doesn't matter whose fault it is. The user gets the shaft.

[bayanii]

Not necessarily. Did you see this thread? Sometimes the developers don't include features because it's not possible.

And like savagelizards said, it doesn't matter whose fault it is. The user gets the shaft.

Thank you.

[savagelizards]

Icon T + 1month.

This phone is like a toxic relationship. Devastatingly beautiful, my Icon continues to seduce me with the promise of what she can be while continually letting me down with what she does and what it fails to do.

Well-meaning friends are telling me I can't keep living this way. They point out that I have stopped doing so many of the things that I liked to do. They have invited me to get out and try a new app, but my Icon will not allow me to do so.

I try and tell them that we have some tender moments together, and they all understand when they gaze at Icons' delicate figure and beautiful display.

Then they remind me that she refuses to carry an SD card, and that she is lazy, and has to take a nap by the afternoon and recharge or she will nag me incessantly and finally leave me alone when all I want is to be out having fun. I shouldn't even bother to take her out at night, I know, but secretly I want to show her off and have everyone understand.

I try and rationalize that Icon didn't have a good upbringing. She had one good parent and one that... Well, lets just Icon didn't learn all that she should have from Microsoft.

She says that she will learn. She wants to go back to school and get her 8.1, but I don't know if I believe her rosy predictions. She was originally thinking April, but that seems sketchy, and it could be late summer before the material is available to her.

And even then, 8.1 might not be enough. I want to leave her, but Icon always convinces me to stay. She is a beautiful underachiever, and I know I am giving her time I might never get back. My friends are all passing me by, and I am afraid I will end up alone with Icon, just the two of us, and she will never do anything unless she wants to do it.

And yet, I still feel I will follow Icon and ignore my instincts. I want so badly to believe in all she promises me.

[freestaterocker]

Icon T + 1month.

This phone is like a toxic relationship. Devastatingly beautiful, my Icon continues to seduce me with the promise of what she can be while continually letting me down with what she does and what it fails to do.

Well-meaning friends are telling me I can't keep living this way. They point out that I have stopped doing so many of the things that I liked to do. They have invited me to get out and try a new app, but my Icon will not allow me to do so.

I try and tell them that we have some tender moments together, and they all understand when they gaze at Icons' delicate figure and beautiful display.

Then they remind me that she refuses to carry an SD card, and that she is lazy, and has to take a nap by the afternoon and recharge or she will nag me incessantly and finally leave me alone when all I want is to be out having fun. I shouldn't even bother to take her out at night, I know, but secretly I want to show her off and have everyone understand.

I try and rationalize that Icon didn't have a good upbringing. She had one good parent and one that... Well, lets just Icon didn't learn all that she should have from Microsoft.

She says that she will learn. She wants to go back to school and get her 8.1, but I don't know if I believe her rosy predictions. She was originally thinking April, but that seems sketchy, and it could be late summer before the material is available to her.

And even then, 8.1 might not be enough. I want to leave her, but Icon always convinces me to stay. She is a beautiful underachiever, and I know I am giving her time I might never get back. My friends are all passing me by, and I am afraid I will end up alone with Icon, just the two of us, and she will never do anything unless she wants to do it.

And yet, I still feel I will follow Icon and ignore my instincts. I want so badly to believe in all she promises me.

So much win in this post...

But seriously: Developer Preview. DP could be the way to tell if your relationship will last! #seewhatididthere

[Indistinguishable]

Icon T + 1month.

This phone is like a toxic relationship. Devastatingly beautiful, my Icon continues to seduce me with the promise of what she can be while continually letting me down with what she does and what it fails to do.

Well-meaning friends are telling me I can't keep living this way. They point out that I have stopped doing so many of the things that I liked to do. They have invited me to get out and try a new app, but my Icon will not allow me to do so.

I try and tell them that we have some tender moments together, and they all understand when they gaze at Icons' delicate figure and beautiful display.

Then they remind me that she refuses to carry an SD card, and that she is lazy, and has to take a nap by the afternoon and recharge or she will nag me incessantly and finally leave me alone when all I want is to be out having fun. I shouldn't even bother to take her out at night, I know, but secretly I want to show her off and have everyone understand.

I try and rationalize that Icon didn't have a good upbringing. She had one good parent and one that... Well, lets just Icon didn't learn all that she should have from Microsoft.

She says that she will learn. She wants to go back to school and get her 8.1, but I don't know if I believe her rosy predictions. She was originally thinking April, but that seems sketchy, and it could be late summer before the material is available to her.

And even then, 8.1 might not be enough. I want to leave her, but Icon always convinces me to stay. She is a beautiful underachiever, and I know I am giving her time I might never get back. My friends are all passing me by, and I am afraid I will end up alone with Icon, just the two of us, and she will never do anything unless she wants to do it.

And yet, I still feel I will follow Icon and ignore my instincts. I want so badly to believe in all she promises me.

I still think you're not giving her the credit she deserves. Maybe consider that her perceived shortfalls could be in part to your unrealistic expectations and misgivings on what she should be to you. She's beautiful the way she is. Accept her for her current imperfections. And know that she will grow, as will you.

This is such a tear-jerker.

[flackberry]

Icon T + 1month.

This phone is like a toxic relationship. Devastatingly beautiful, my Icon continues to seduce me with the promise of what she can be while continually letting me down with what she does and what it fails to do.

Well-meaning friends are telling me I can't keep living this way. They point out that I have stopped doing so many of the things that I liked to do. They have invited me to get out and try a new app, but my Icon will not allow me to do so.

I try and tell them that we have some tender moments together, and they all understand when they gaze at Icons' delicate figure and beautiful display.

Then they remind me that she refuses to carry an SD card, and that she is lazy, and has to take a nap by the afternoon and recharge or she will nag me incessantly and finally leave me alone when all I want is to be out having fun. I shouldn't even bother to take her out at night, I know, but secretly I want to show her off and have everyone understand.

I try and rationalize that Icon didn't have a good upbringing. She had one good parent and one that... Well, lets just Icon didn't learn all that she should have from Microsoft.

She says that she will learn. She wants to go back to school and get her 8.1, but I don't know if I believe her rosy predictions. She was originally thinking April, but that seems sketchy, and it could be late summer before the material is available to her.

And even then, 8.1 might not be enough. I want to leave her, but Icon always convinces me to stay. She is a beautiful underachiever, and I know I am giving her time I might never get back. My friends are all passing me by, and I am afraid I will end up alone with Icon, just the two of us, and she will never do anything unless she wants to do it.

And yet, I still feel I will follow Icon and ignore my instincts. I want so badly to believe in all she promises me.

Its a phone....you're not marrying its ***.

[bayanii]

Icon T + 1month.

This phone is like a toxic relationship. Devastatingly beautiful, my Icon continues to seduce me with the promise of what she can be while continually letting me down with what she does and what it fails to do.

Well-meaning friends are telling me I can't keep living this way. They point out that I have stopped doing so many of the things that I liked to do. They have invited me to get out and try a new app, but my Icon will not allow me to do so.

I try and tell them that we have some tender moments together, and they all understand when they gaze at Icons' delicate figure and beautiful display.

Then they remind me that she refuses to carry an SD card, and that she is lazy, and has to take a nap by the afternoon and recharge or she will nag me incessantly and finally leave me alone when all I want is to be out having fun. I shouldn't even bother to take her out at night, I know, but secretly I want to show her off and have everyone understand.

I try and rationalize that Icon didn't have a good upbringing. She had one good parent and one that... Well, lets just Icon didn't learn all that she should have from Microsoft.

She says that she will learn. She wants to go back to school and get her 8.1, but I don't know if I believe her rosy predictions. She was originally thinking April, but that seems sketchy, and it could be late summer before the material is available to her.

And even then, 8.1 might not be enough. I want to leave her, but Icon always convinces me to stay. She is a beautiful underachiever, and I know I am giving her time I might never get back. My friends are all passing me by, and I am afraid I will end up alone with Icon, just the two of us, and she will never do anything unless she wants to do it.

And yet, I still feel I will follow Icon and ignore my instincts. I want so badly to believe in all she promises me.

Windows phone from the beginning was never an app phone. If you remember the early promotions, they were promoting a phone that allows the necessities quickly, so you can continue on with life.

I'd say stop worrying about getting left behind with applications and comprehend that windows phone is a true phone. A phone that functions more than a phone should and just live. Applications do have their perks, but with most things in life, you can accomplish tasks without it given it to you in a golden Potter.

[savagelizards]

Its a phone....you're not marrying its ***.

I am sorry... I was making an analogy. I should have been more clear. Please forgive me.

[cckgz4]

I think this needs to be understood:
Microsoft is definitely competing but its not, nor will it ever be, for everyone. Just like Android and its multitude of notifications and ios and its narcoleptic inducing layout aren't for me. I see things shaping up to be pretty good for Microsoft in the end and 8.1 only proves that

[jleebiker]

Icon T + 1month.

This phone is like a toxic relationship. Devastatingly beautiful, my Icon continues to seduce me with the promise of what she can be while continually letting me down with what she does and what it fails to do.

Well-meaning friends are telling me I can't keep living this way. They point out that I have stopped doing so many of the things that I liked to do. They have invited me to get out and try a new app, but my Icon will not allow me to do so.

I try and tell them that we have some tender moments together, and they all understand when they gaze at Icons' delicate figure and beautiful display.

Then they remind me that she refuses to carry an SD card, and that she is lazy, and has to take a nap by the afternoon and recharge or she will nag me incessantly and finally leave me alone when all I want is to be out having fun. I shouldn't even bother to take her out at night, I know, but secretly I want to show her off and have everyone understand.

I try and rationalize that Icon didn't have a good upbringing. She had one good parent and one that... Well, lets just Icon didn't learn all that she should have from Microsoft.

She says that she will learn. She wants to go back to school and get her 8.1, but I don't know if I believe her rosy predictions. She was originally thinking April, but that seems sketchy, and it could be late summer before the material is available to her.

And even then, 8.1 might not be enough. I want to leave her, but Icon always convinces me to stay. She is a beautiful underachiever, and I know I am giving her time I might never get back. My friends are all passing me by, and I am afraid I will end up alone with Icon, just the two of us, and she will never do anything unless she wants to do it.

And yet, I still feel I will follow Icon and ignore my instincts. I want so badly to believe in all she promises me.

Best thing I've read all day! LOL!

[Existence_Inc]

Icon T + 1month.

I can't say that I disagree. I am coming from BlackBerry OS7 and there are still features that I miss. I am not terribly interested in the app market side of things: If they are available, great, if not, I work in front of a PC all day. However, things like a notification center, and notification light (no Glance) are greatly missed as these are Core Features that should have been included in the device. I am happy with my choice, as I bought the phone knowing what it could and couldn't do, but I'm not going to hedge my bets on 8.1 fixing everything either.

I think this needs to be understood:
Microsoft is definitely competing but its not, nor will it ever be, for everyone. Just like Android and its multitude of notifications and ios and its narcoleptic inducing layout aren't for me. I see things shaping up to be pretty good for Microsoft in the end and 8.1 only proves that

The problem is that Microsoft IS competing with other devices. They want into enterprise, and the consumer market. They are even trying to remedy the app shortage and when they do land a major app, they announce them like it is a big thing. Microsoft does not and can not operate in a vacuum. Look at BlackBerry. They tried. Like it or not, WP will always be compared to other devices out there, and they NEED to be on par with Android and IOS on paper AND bring their own flair to the show. Nokia/Microsoft understands this. Look at the Icon/1520: Cutting edge hardware specs, despite everyone always touting about saying WP8 doesn't need it. They are TRYING to compete for the high-end market and in order to succeed there needs to be OS feature parity with other devices in terms of USE Features. You may not want them, but Apple and iOS users do, and that is the market WP is operating in: a 2 OS market.

Windows phone from the beginning was never an app phone. If you remember the early promotions, they were promoting a phone that allows the necessities quickly, so you can continue on with life.

I'd say stop worrying about getting left behind with applications and comprehend that windows phone is a true phone. A phone that functions more than a phone should and just live. Applications do have their perks, but with most things in life, you can accomplish tasks without it given it to you in a golden Potter.

If WP devices were only designed to be "true phones" then why the emphasis on imaging (picture/video) superiority? Why the push to minimize the disparity of the app market? Like it or not, the market demands app and feature parity. If that was not the case, BlackBerry would not be where it is today. YOU may not find these things important, but success in the market DOES. I seriously doubt Microsoft wants WP to be a Niche device. It isn't as profitable as being a successful market device. Apple is a prime example of that. If MS wants to be successful in the mobile market, the management needs to understand that they will have to allocate the resources to do so. WP needs to stop playing catch-up, and start looking to jump ahead of the competition. They need to create features and apps that the competition does NOT have and make that a selling point ALONG with creating parity with other devices.

I believe that the Lumia devices would have gained greater mind-share, and market-share as a result, if WP8 had feature/app parity AND cutting edge imaging technology. As it is, the imaging tech isn't much of a selling point on its own to the mass market. The OS missing features that are expected and the Apps either being inferior or absent is hindering growth, period. People who bought into the platform can say it isn't important to them, but they currently represent 3% of the market. The other ~90% of the smartphone market disagrees with you, and that is the pie that Microsoft wants a bigger piece of.

~Ex

[Tom Gjonaj]

im def starting to feel the limitations now that the honeymoon moment is over. Lack of games and apps have been killer. My wife with her iphone blows me away gaming wise. Also the new htc one(M8) and galaxy S5 have me feeling jealous. They have the new snapdragon 801 and a huge ecosystem of games and support. Wp8 is by far the best OS, just OS wise, cant complain there. WP8.1 wont fix any of these issues regarding the apps/games, so I dont see a bright future with the Icon for me personally.