Ideas for upgrading 1020 camera

[BlackZeppelin]

I just replied to another poster in which was suggested upgrading the camera on the Lumia 1020. Which got me thinking-what would you suggest to upgrade the camera? Considering it's the flagship of mobile phone imaging and continues to be, even will new competitor releases. I have 2 ideas:

Low light imaging. The brief time I had with the 1020 I was a little surprised by the noise on low light imaging. Apparently, high MP count is excellent for daylight resolution, but increases noise during low light imaging. I have 2 ideas with that.

The first is similar to a Sony camera I have (20MP). To take a burst series of shots and overlay them for low level imaging. Burst mode is nothing new, but so many manufacturers are using this for gimmicks and frivolous things, like for eg, "best shot" in Nokia's own burst mode app. This would be a really good use of a burst mode. I don't know if Sony has a patent on this type of burst mode, called intelligent auto in their dedicated cameras.

The second, and again, I don't know if this would infringe on any patents by HTC, would be the option to change resolution for low light level. The 5MP setting on the 1020 is not really 5MP, but 34 (or 38MP, I can't remember now) scaled down to 5MP. An oversampled 5MP, still having the same problems of noise. What about an actual 5MP setting with various other paremeter settings to optimise low light shooting?

And here's another idea for a major upgrade. Combining perhaps a revolutionary optical zoom (like the Galaxy Zoom S4 but without the thickness) with Nokia's superior digital zoom. When zooming, the optical zoom is deployed first then digital zoom afterwards. And also like the Sony cameras, different resolution settings would allow different amounts of zooming. So you could choose say a 20MP setting and zoom less but with no loss of information, or choose a 5MP setting and zoom further but suffering just a little loss.

Now, this is me blue skying, as I said in another thread. But instead of a mere low MP front camera, what about if the back of the phone instead had a secondary screen? Not occupying the whole back, maybe just half, and a very low resolution screen (1MP). You could take of course selfies with the rear 41MP camera and then you could easily compose it because you are looking at a screen of what the camera sees looking at you. Trippy I know.

What say you?

 

[Spider-Mic]

If Nokia would care for my oppinion, I would suggest to implement a HDR function in photo and video. And I would like to have a more responsive camera and a real 120 fps video recording option. Thats all

 

[ListenUpGuys]

They'll probably improve the aperture, but I'm not expecting a 1020 successor until at Q3 at the earliest. Hopefully they'll improve write speeds too.

I imagine HDR apps already exist?

 

[RTGent]

BZ, I don't think you spent enough time with the 1020. It's low light performance, indoor and out, is pretty remarkable and there are lots of tips available on optimizing this. According to DxO mobile: "In fact, under low light conditions the Lumia 1020 outperforms rivals, producing still images with low noise and detail preservation that are simply the best we’ve ever seen from a smartphone." I had extracted this for my brother, but you can probably find the source. In their tests, the 1020 did not rank high on video, but ranked second only to the original Pureview, Nokia's 808, for stills. As for your Sony 20mp camera, if you have an rx10 or 100, that has a huge 1" sensor -even for a camera, and I don't even imagine a similar-sized sensor -with the hardware required to optimize such a sensor- in any phone, soon, if ever. Costs are the primary barrier, but size would be next.

I'll welcome your and any improvements, but I don't want any that add to weight or girth. This is still a phone (only), even if a brilliant one. I don't expect this to work like my Fujis any more than I expect my Fujis to ever have 41mps, etc. As others have said on one or more threads, I'd look to the 1520 for a likely upgrade path. Although, again, if I'd have to have a bigger 1020/30/xx to accommodate a 1520 battery, for instance, but I'd take the current marvel in 64gb.

But, if we're imagining: how about 4K video recording. After all, Panasonic has it in their camera. :wink:

 

[mikebodo]

Give me the current 41mp camera on the 1020 with the low-light image capture capability of the 920 and you'll have the most complete camera phone out there.

 

[Bahamen]

Give me the current 41mp camera on the 1020 with the low-light image capture capability of the 920 and you'll have the most complete camera phone out there.

The only advantage the 920 has over the 1020 is the f2.0 aperture. But thanks to the 1020's gigantic image sensor which is 4x larger, the 1020 has lowlight capability that far surpasses any other smartphones in the market. The 1020's image may seem darker than the 920, but this is mostly due to the camera's default exposure preference under auto mode. You can manually adjust ("compensate") this by increasing the ISO or shutter speed if you prefer a brighter image. The 1020 can handle noise quite well at high levels of ISO.

 

[jojoe42]

BZ, I don't think you spent enough time with the 1020. It's low light performance, indoor and out, is pretty remarkable and there are lots of tips available on optimizing this. According to DxO mobile: "In fact, under low light conditions the Lumia 1020 outperforms rivals, producing still images with low noise and detail preservation that are simply the best we?ve ever seen from a smartphone." I had extracted this for my brother, but you can probably find the source. In their tests, the 1020 did not rank high on video, but ranked second only to the original Pureview, Nokia's 808, for stills. As for your Sony 20mp camera, if you have an rx10 or 100, that has a huge 1" sensor -even for a camera, and I don't even imagine a similar-sized sensor -with the hardware required to optimize such a sensor- in any phone, soon, if ever. Costs are the primary barrier, but size would be next.

I'll welcome your and any improvements, but I don't want any that add to weight or girth. This is still a phone (only), even if a brilliant one. I don't expect this to work like my Fujis any more than I expect my Fujis to even have 41mps, etc. As others have said on one or more threads, I'd look to the 1520 for a likely upgrade path. Although, again, if I'd have to have a bigger 1020/30/xx to accommodate a 1520 battery, for instance, I'd take the current marvel.

But, if we're imagining: how about 4K video recording. After all, Panasonic has it in their camera. :wink:

+1 here; you'd think they could at least squeeze in 4K video recording into the next version, given the Qualcomm 800 series processor support it. I'd add to Spider-Mic and say I'd like an HDR mode/video too, but the former is more likely to come in a Nokia Camera update. I think the 41MP sensor will stay, perhaps with a few tweaks to the lenses to get rid of that blurring around the edges and some general improvements to the OIS plus the 4 mics (think 1520). Also they desperately need to switch out the screen which isn't as colour-accurate as it should be, and general faster processing times would be nicer too.

 

[mikebodo]

The only advantage the 920 has over the 1020 is the f2.0 aperture. But thanks to the 1020's gigantic image sensor which is 4x larger, the 1020 has lowlight capability that far surpasses any other smartphones in the market. The 1020's image may seem darker than the 920, but this is mostly due to the camera's default exposure preference under auto mode. You can manually adjust ("compensate") this by increasing the ISO or shutter speed if you prefer a brighter image. The 1020 can handle noise quite well at high levels of ISO.

Thanks for the tip! I'll definitely try this.

 

[anon(8555314)]

The camera grip is awesome as is, but it would be even more awesome if it had the female fitting to attach ND/polarizer filters, with the lens centered in the section that sticks out. A shutter speed of longer than 4 seconds would be nice. (I realize over-heating the sensor is a potential issue, but what if +4 sec shutter speed could be disabled automatically in regular light and enabled in lower light.)

I don't know if the technology can ever be developed to have multiple apertures, but that would be terrific.

And of course, with professional cameras there is a continual advancement to get better quality photos at high ISO setting. The professional photogs that I know say high useful ISO is far more important to them than winning the megapixel war. Pushing the lumia camera in that direction would be useful.

 

[neonspark]

1) aperture diaphragm or at least an ND filter to control daylight shooting. I prefer the former but realize it would be costly. However the optics on the 1020 aren't really good at the corners and I suspect if we could set the aperture to 3.5 or 4.0 or so, it would clean them up a bit so I rather have aperture control. However I'd have to check the diffraction equations to tell if that won't come at the expense of resolution.

2) Larger sensor. I mean really, it has a camera bump already so why not just put the big sensor of the prior pure view. this would dramatically improve image quality given today's sensor tech is far better than it was a few years ago.

3) center the camera on that back metal disk and thread it. This would allow people to mount ND filters, GND filters, Circular Polarizers, etc. It would also allow people to mount dslr lenses. In fact, if nokia was really daring, allow you to just remove the top optical aparatus and expose the sensor so that one can take out the cheap 1020 lenses and replace them with high quality optical glass (FYI, the 1020 uses some plastic elements!!!! this is horrifying if you are used to optical glass, ED glass, or FLD glass).

4) use optical glass or ED glass instead of plastic optics. Yeah, it is Zeiss but it also has some plastic elements which have a high dispersion and terrible diffraction. When you're used to shooting with lenses that cost 4 figures each, you can tell plastic optics ruin an amazing sensor. In fact, if nokia did nothing on the 1020 but to remove the plastic elements and tweak the formula to use optical or ED glass, the image quality would shoot up significantly and maybe the awful 1020 corners will finally look like the center region.

I love the 1020, but I'm used to shooting with 10K plus worth of imaging power hanging from my shoulder. I realize I can't get there but some minor things could have made the 1020, 10X better.

 

[GloriousGlory]

Not much they can really do to upgrade this camera. After purchasing another one after the Black update I have to say that it has exceeded expectations. Colors are more accurate than before and low light performance is still amazing.

The write speed is the only thing I can really think of.

 

[Bahamen]

1) aperture diaphragm or at least an ND filter to control daylight shooting. I prefer the former but realize it would be costly. However the optics on the 1020 aren't really good at the corners and I suspect if we could set the aperture to 3.5 or 4.0 or so, it would clean them up a bit so I rather have aperture control. However I'd have to check the diffraction equations to tell if that won't come at the expense of resolution.

2) Larger sensor. I mean really, it has a camera bump already so why not just put the big sensor of the prior pure view. this would dramatically improve image quality given today's sensor tech is far better than it was a few years ago.

3) center the camera on that back metal disk and thread it. This would allow people to mount ND filters, GND filters, Circular Polarizers, etc. It would also allow people to mount dslr lenses. In fact, if nokia was really daring, allow you to just remove the top optical aparatus and expose the sensor so that one can take out the cheap 1020 lenses and replace them with high quality optical glass (FYI, the 1020 uses some plastic elements!!!! this is horrifying if you are used to optical glass, ED glass, or FLD glass).

4) use optical glass or ED glass instead of plastic optics. Yeah, it is Zeiss but it also has some plastic elements which have a high dispersion and terrible diffraction. When you're used to shooting with lenses that cost 4 figures each, you can tell plastic optics ruin an amazing sensor. In fact, if nokia did nothing on the 1020 but to remove the plastic elements and tweak the formula to use optical or ED glass, the image quality would shoot up significantly and maybe the awful 1020 corners will finally look like the center region.

I love the 1020, but I'm used to shooting with 10K plus worth of imaging power hanging from my shoulder. I realize I can't get there but some minor things could have made the 1020, 10X better.

It really sounds like you should be lugging around your 5 pound camera gear with you everywhere. For the rest of us, we pray that Nokia/Microsoft would not ruin the phone the way you just described.

 

[Crasstoe]

Cant mount an slr lens directly easily. If they allowed the phone to retract the optical lenses and leave the final protective lens on command (button) a screw on spacer could be added and dslr lenses added. For example an m42 lens has a ffd of 45.46mm (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance) and would need the sensor exosing completely, and it would need to be full frame to get the desired effects.





I would love for this to happen but i have a feeling Nokia wont make this as it would be more slr than phone! Look into DOF adapters. I get 12MP images from the 1020 using mine and love the results.





The change i would make would be being able to focus as close as 1 inch and not 15cm, that would be an absolute god send, as it would allow me to make my DOF adapter substaintially shorter, and also require less zooming from the 1020 and diopters to get the ground glass into focus resulting in higher resolution, sharper images and less noise, not to mention a more compact size and less noise!



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[Spider-Mic]

Can't believe that the camera modul uses plastic lenses. Maybe the protection glass in the housing.

 

[jojoe42]

Can't believe that the camera modul uses plastic lenses. Maybe the protection glass in the housing.

They use Gorilla Glass 3 on the outside. Maybe the used plastic lenses because they found the glass ones too fragile or something...the smaller and thinner the glass, the more fragile it is(???)

 

[Crasstoe]

Glass is also heavier and in some cases the plastic was most likely adequate (not all the internal lenses are plastic).

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