How much does it cost Microsoft mobile?

psoham777

New member
Aug 23, 2014
4,145
0
0
Visit site
Nokia was losing money increasingly ever since Eflop took over and they just got worse the moment he went with WP instead of Android. From there on, the path would always be down. Which was Eflops plan. Now that the exclusivity deal with Microsoft was ending, Nokia was prepared to counter-rule Eflop and move to Android. So Microsoft attacked pre-emptively to avoid Nokia ditching Windows Phone.

Now Nokia has no phone division but they also are not losing money on Windows Phone since they completely abandoned the platform with the exception of HERE maps. All of Nokia's efforts are now directed to Android. When will we see Nokia return with an Android phone, we don't know. But they can't do it before 2016 anyway...however, they're not prevented to launch smartwatches, smartbands, cameras or other kinds of consumer products before 2016. And you'll see those sooner than you expect. Except they WON'T be aimed at Windows Phone.

See, I know many people consider its all due to Stephen Elop, because he took some wrong decisions, like when Meego was introduced(as Nokia CEO, he didn't allow it to spread), so many phones which had Meego, eventually went on with Symbian updates(even when meego was a hell lot better). Also when Nokia came up with wp, it was still running into loses. I know that he came from MS to Nokia, but why plan his own company to go in loses, because that could destroy reputation of both MS as well as Nokia(if wp went into loses). Whatever it is Nokia is in profit now & at least wp isn't that bad, just that it needs more time to evolve in a market dominated by Android
 

fatclue_98

Retired Moderator
Apr 1, 2012
9,146
1
38
Visit site
Ya, exactly. It's better to make $20/phone off those remaining devices than to make $0/phone for them. When you have old stock, it's usually hard to sell because there are newer comparable models. So to get them to move off the shelves, you have to sell super cheap. Even if that technically means you sell each of those devices at a loss.

Retail stores will do that sometimes as well. It's a common method to move old stock.


To a certain point. The GS3 is a very old (in tech circles) device that is still selling well. BB is still selling Curves in emerging markets as well. Tooling and development costs for those devices has been paid for many times over so I'm sure there's some profits being made.
 

ChinuKabi

New member
Jun 18, 2014
59
0
0
Visit site
Simple: Nokia still exists. They're still a company. The only thing that was sold to Microsoft was their devices and services business. Think of it like this: you had 4 houses. You sold one of them. That's what Nokia did. They sold to Microsoft one of their houses. They didn't sell the entire company.

In that contract by which Microsoft bought Nokia's phone division, Nokia is restricted to release phones themselves or lend their name to other OEMs to do it for them, until 2016. That means that until December 2015, Nokia can NOT release phones.
However, starting 1st of January 2016, Nokia can again sell their own phones running the OS they so wish (Android,WP, iOS, Sailfish, Ubunto, WebOS, MeeGo, whatever they want).

The phones that have been announced since 25th of April (Lumia 530, 730, 735, 830) were NOT released by Nokia. They were already released by Microsoft Mobile which means, altough they have the "Nokia" logo on them, they are NOT Nokia phones.

Come 1st January 2016, Nokia can return to the phone business if they so wish. Since Nokia owns all the patents needed to produce the phones, they just need a new "phone division" to do it. Which can be easily done through the acquisition of Jolla, for example.

I think 2015 will be a good year to see exactly where Nokia is aiming to go. After all, nothing in the deal prevents Nokia from, for example, presenting a phone in September or October 2015 to go on sale on 1st of January 2016. We'll have to wait and see what happens.
Meanwhile Nokia is working on other stuff for Android which we will see way before that.
It's live giving your house on rent. Got it DJCBS.
 

psoham777

New member
Aug 23, 2014
4,145
0
0
Visit site
What was the problem if Nokia continued selling the Symbian is phones. They had a good marketplace for it too.

No, due to Android, Symbian was losing its place, hence they needed to come up with something, lets say WP in this case. Symbian always used to lag, the apps would crash, your phone would hang etc, Symbian had many problems, hence not only Nokia but also other companies running Symbian eventually turned to Android or some other OS
 

AR2186

New member
Dec 18, 2012
754
0
0
Visit site
Nope that's not the case. Nokia was running into huge losses as it kept on losing its market share. Even initially when wp came, people were hesitant to but it. & now, after MS bought Nokia, its running in profit, so much that it could re open its own new company & make profits out of it. Still I don't like MS removing Nokia's brand name off the phones
Its not profitable under Microsoft, which you can clearly see from Microsoft's financial reports. It was a cash drain that would have killed Nokia if they kept it. They couldn't make the hard decisions to close down factories, product lines, etc because of the hit to volume and what that would have looked like on a go forward basis with the gives cost base they had.
 

tgp

New member
Dec 1, 2012
4,519
0
0
Visit site
Ya, exactly. It's better to make $20/phone off those remaining devices than to make $0/phone for them. When you have old stock, it's usually hard to sell because there are newer comparable models. So to get them to move off the shelves, you have to sell super cheap. Even if that technically means you sell each of those devices at a loss.

Retail stores will do that sometimes as well. It's a common method to move old stock.

Yes that's true. Another factor they have to consider is how many customers buy a discounted device rather than the new replacement. In some cases, it might be more profitable to throw the old model away if a customer would buy a new model were the discounted one not available. It's just another educated guess they have to make.

Here is a recent news article about new vehicles that don't sell. I cannot vouch for its accuracy, but it brings up an interesting theory. Basically, it says that if the manufacturers sold these vehicles at a discount, it would take away from new vehicle sales.
 

AR2186

New member
Dec 18, 2012
754
0
0
Visit site
Simple: Nokia still exists. They're still a company. The only thing that was sold to Microsoft was their devices and services business. Think of it like this: you had 4 houses. You sold one of them. That's what Nokia did. They sold to Microsoft one of their houses. They didn't sell the entire company.

In that contract by which Microsoft bought Nokia's phone division, Nokia is restricted to release phones themselves or lend their name to other OEMs to do it for them, until 2016. That means that until December 2015, Nokia can NOT release phones.
However, starting 1st of January 2016, Nokia can again sell their own phones running the OS they so wish (Android,WP, iOS, Sailfish, Ubunto, WebOS, MeeGo, whatever they want).

The phones that have been announced since 25th of April (Lumia 530, 730, 735, 830) were NOT released by Nokia. They were already released by Microsoft Mobile which means, altough they have the "Nokia" logo on them, they are NOT Nokia phones.

Come 1st January 2016, Nokia can return to the phone business if they so wish. Since Nokia owns all the patents needed to produce the phones, they just need a new "phone division" to do it. Which can be easily done through the acquisition of Jolla, for example.

I think 2015 will be a good year to see exactly where Nokia is aiming to go. After all, nothing in the deal prevents Nokia from, for example, presenting a phone in September or October 2015 to go on sale on 1st of January 2016. We'll have to wait and see what happens.
Meanwhile Nokia is working on other stuff for Android which we will see way before that.
You realize they sold all of their technological know how, supplier relationships, carrier relationships, customer service, etc with the devices and services business, right? Its a pipe-dream that they will launch another phone. Additionally it appears Microsoft has licensed the name for longer than the original deal now that new smartphones are still being released with the Nokia name
 

ChinuKabi

New member
Jun 18, 2014
59
0
0
Visit site
You realize they sold all of their technological know how, supplier relationships, carrier relationships, customer service, etc with the devices and services business, right? Its a pipe-dream that they will launch another phone. Additionally it appears Microsoft has licensed the name for longer than the original deal now that new smartphones are still being released with the Nokia name
Can anyone clarify this thing. Please, it seems very interesting. Two different views are here. Which one to follow?
 

psoham777

New member
Aug 23, 2014
4,145
0
0
Visit site
Its a contract, that Nokia could use their name only for 2 years, so soon after some months Nokia name would be removed
 

AR2186

New member
Dec 18, 2012
754
0
0
Visit site
The contract was that Microsoft could use Nokia on dumb phones for 10 years (think Asha, etc) and that Nokia couldn't reenter the market until 2016.
 

DJCBS

New member
Nov 19, 2012
719
0
0
Visit site
You realize they sold all of their technological know how, supplier relationships, carrier relationships, customer service, etc with the devices and services business, right? Its a pipe-dream that they will launch another phone. Additionally it appears Microsoft has licensed the name for longer than the original deal now that new smartphones are still being released with the Nokia name

That's actually false. Nokia retained ALL the technological know how as not only the R&D division that created the tech remained at Nokia, but all the patents remained at Nokia. They maintain supplier relationships and carrier relationships through their other businesses. Nokia Networks works closely with European and Japanese carriers.
The only thing they have to build again is the customer service, something that isn't as hard to do as it would be if they actually had to rebuild all you said.
No, it's not a pipe-dream. Actually Nokia is even scheduled to return to consumer products before 2014 is out, early 2015 at best.

Regarding the branding, Microsoft is only going around the terms to extend the use of the name. They've made it so that phones that were started by Nokia, still get the Nokia branding. That's why the 830, 730 and 530 all come with the Nokia branding. If Goldfinger hadn't been cancelled, because it was started by Nokia, it would still carry the Nokia branding.
However, you should not see many more SMARTPHONES (remember, dumbphones can still use Nokia's name for 10 years) with the Nokia branding. Actually, notice that Microsoft has already started to phase out the name. Not only are the apps being rebranded, on the 4th September event they haven't mentioned Nokia's name at all when presenting the phones. They always talked about "Lumia, Lumia, Lumia, Lumia". They never said "the Nokia Lumia" etc.
I think come 2015 you should see the Nokia name gone from Microsoft Mobile products. The only question I have is if the 1030 will arrive in 2015 under the Nokia brand. I have a feeling it won't as Microsoft will probably want to use it as the first MM flagship device to launch with WP9.
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
322,911
Messages
2,242,885
Members
428,005
Latest member
COME ON WIN ANDROID (ADI)