Should we expect a major camera improvement with Denim update?

[maverick786us]

Lumia 830 is a mediocre smartphone with....
1) Mediocre Camera
2) Mediocre sensor size
3) Mediocre lens
4) Mediocre processor
5) Mediocre RAM

Overall not even closer to Lumia 930, and still it produces better images than Lumia 925, Whether its daylight or low light, because it has Lumia Denim. Once Lumia 930 starts Denim roll-out, will we see this kind of camera improvement with this device. As of now its low light images and videos are crappy, when compared to Lumia 920/925.

 

[Pranshul Sood]

Boy, do you even know your phones. It's not a mediocre phone. And a mediocre camera? You're definitely not near. Dont look at the specs as they can be confusing. Look at the user experience. And yes, Nokia Camera will be improved a lot after denim update

 

[N_LaRUE]

Boy, do you even know your phones. It's not a mediocre phone. And a mediocre camera? You're definitely not near. Dont look at the specs as they can be confusing. Look at the user experience. And yes, Nokia Camera will be improved a lot after denim update

It's perspective. If you want a 'real' flagship than the L830 is a mediocre phone by all accounts. It's middle of the range phone with higher than mid range price.

 

[maverick786us]

Boy, do you even know your phones. It's not a mediocre phone. And a mediocre camera? You're definitely not near. Dont look at the specs as they can be confusing. Look at the user experience. And yes, Nokia Camera will be improved a lot after denim update

Your comment is irreverent. My 920 was a high end device 2 years ago when I purchased it.

 

[psoham777]

That all depends on what phone you're using, it'll have a lot of camera improvements for pureview phones & atleast a minor update for the rest Lumia series...
Sent from whichever device I happen to be using today.

 

[maverick786us]

You all are shifting focus from my original post. My point is when a 830 with mediocre camera can produce such a good images because of Denim. Will 930 generate similar results? We all were bit disappointed with the low light images of Lumia 930

 

[psoham777]

You all are shifting focus from my original post. My point is when a 830 with mediocre camera can produce such a good images because of Denim. Will 930 generate similar results? We all were bit disappointed with the low light images of Lumia 930

830 doesn't have a mediocre camera, you just cant say a camera is better just because denim is too good. 930 has sd 800, surely denim would improve its camera to a good extent.

 

[N_LaRUE]

How about we don't know but we can only assume it will be better?

Denim is supposed to improve the camera software. That's all we know.

 

[psoham777]

How about we don't know but we can only assume it will be better?

Denim is supposed to improve the camera software. That's all we know.

I agree

 

[arnark]

As a former 920 user which has now 930 your post should say this: 920 beats 930 in low light with "AUTO" mode. 930 crushes 920 in low light any day of the week period(posted some in the "Post your 930 pictures sections last night for those who want to see). Not that I would ever use auto mode for that matter in low light but I understand that people just want to shoot in auto mode. Hope Denim will tweak it to not push the iso so high in auto mode.

 

[maverick786us]

How about we don't know but we can only assume it will be better?

Denim is supposed to improve the camera software. That's all we know.

Not just a software its the camera firmware that should do the trick. Nokia / MS promised a whole lot camera improvement with Lumia Cyan. But it didn't deliver the promise with Lumia 930.

As a former 920 user which has now 930 your post should say this: 920 beats 930 in low light with "AUTO" mode. 930 crushes 920 in low light any day of the week period(posted some in the "Post your 930 pictures sections last night for those who want to see). Not that I would ever use auto mode for that matter in low light but I understand that people just want to shoot in auto mode. Hope Denim will tweak it to not push the iso so high in auto mode.

I hope they implement a good night mode or low light settings that should do that trick

 

[maverick786us]

Not only this. I read an article in Nokiapoweruser.com and saw video comparision between 830 and 808 PureView and 830 have such a crisp details. When Denim can do a magic for 830. Why can't it do for a device, which is twice as good as 830?

 

[realwarder]

Not only this. I read an article in Nokiapoweruser.com and saw video comparision between 830 and 808 PureView and 830 have such a crisp details. When Denim can do a magic for 830. Why can't it do for a device, which is twice as good as 830?

Some of it may simply be more capability in the CPU. The SnapDragons have dedicated image processing DSPs and it's likely those get more powerful and flexible each CPU generation... which can equate to better quality and higher performance.

Also, I saw a review of the 830 against 1020 and the 830 photos for the most part really surprised me. Nokia image processing algorithms are definitely amazing these days making up for smaller sensor size.

 

[msirapian]

" My point is when a 830 with mediocre camera can produce such a good images because of Denim."

This assumption is probably wrong and here is why, according to me.

maverick786us, I get your point even if I think your words are not exactly the most appropriate. The 830 camera is not mediocre, it's maybe a smaller sensor than the 920/930, but it also integrates Nokia's experience and, somehow, they're able to do more with less (which doesn't mean a 830 is as good as a 930, it means they have decreased the cost of good mid-range quality).

Now this being said, back to your question, which is a good one. So far, we see the "pure" 830 performance, as it has only Denim and not Lumia Camera.

My take on this is that we should expect a major camera improvement, but with Lumia Camera. I don't think that the 830 good quality (compared to the limited HW, what you qualify of "mediocre") is due to Denim, but just to Nokia mastering more and more OIS and WP Imaging.

In other words, the real camera improvement to come unleashed by software is probably more linked to Lumia Camera (still not released, even on the 830) than the underlaying FW (Denim).

To finish, and also to admit I don't know more than you, I had asked Juha Alakarhu why do we still have an old bug in Cyan, camera-wise : the DNG (RAW) files are not geotagged and they contain a "(C) Nokia Corporation 2012" copyright field in EXIF. He told me that for Cyan they hadn't been allowed to "touch that part of the firmware" (and obviously, it's FW related, as they can't fix it by a Nokia Camera update). Denim has probably more camera-related content than Cyan, at its firmware level and could contribute to the general camera improvement.

 

[Compiux]

I wouldn't say it's mediocre. It is targeted to certain public: the midrange public.
Midrange is midrange, not flagship

 

[Bahamen]

I believe it has already been confirmed that the Denim update will bring improvements in the image processing algorithm that will benefit the Icon/930/1520.

On the other hand, I don't think it will try to achieve the same lowlight result as the 920. As mentioned before, this all comes down to the auto default behaviour in lowlight, where the camera tries to juggle between 3 different variables - exposure / brightness (ISO + shutter), noise level (ISO), and potential motion blur (shutter speed). The 920 has tendency of using much slower shutter speed and attempts to achieve a brighter exposure compared to the 1520/930. We cannot say whether one approach is superior to the other, it pretty much depends on each individual. For example, somebody with shaky hands will appreciate the 930's setting, and complains that the 920 gives blurry result. Somebody with steady hands will complain that the 930's image is too dark, more noise, etc. This is easily rectified by using manual controls where you set your own parameters based on your own individual preference.

I have actually done some controlled testing between the 1520 versus 920 in lowlight condition by ensuring that the shutter speed is the same, exposure level is the same, etc. The lowlight results are very close and similar, although if I had to pick one, I would probably prefer the 1520. Where the 1520 really trumps the 920, is in daylight detail and ability to zoom. Perhaps with the Denim update there will be huge improvements, we have already seen this with the 830 so I think there's reason to be optimistic.

 

[broughshane]

Only thing I know about the denim update for the camera, from the Berlin show was a faster camera start up and record in 4k for certain devices and a new feature that will be played with once or twice. I'm hoping that it improves low light shots on the 930 but I'm not holding my breath on it now. We were promised improvements with cyan and it wasn't then.. the 920 carried the lens feature f2.0 which made it the darker shot king and its not really a software address ..

 

[blue1k]

The camera algorithm will improve sharpening and color reproduction. PureviewClub had a great review of this.

 

[maverick786us]

Here is another case where 830 has outperformed 920 in most of the cases, despite having samller sensor, smaller aperture. With this kind of tweaks, we have hugh expectations from 930.

 

[BatteryLife]

I believe it has already been confirmed that the Denim update will bring improvements in the image processing algorithm that will benefit the Icon/930/1520.

On the other hand, I don't think it will try to achieve the same lowlight result as the 920. As mentioned before, this all comes down to the auto default behaviour in lowlight, where the camera tries to juggle between 3 different variables - exposure / brightness (ISO + shutter), noise level (ISO), and potential motion blur (shutter speed). The 920 has tendency of using much slower shutter speed and attempts to achieve a brighter exposure compared to the 1520/930. We cannot say whether one approach is superior to the other, it pretty much depends on each individual. For example, somebody with shaky hands will appreciate the 930's setting, and complains that the 920 gives blurry result. Somebody with steady hands will complain that the 930's image is too dark, more noise, etc. This is easily rectified by using manual controls where you set your own parameters based on your own individual preference.

I have actually done some controlled testing between the 1520 versus 920 in lowlight condition by ensuring that the shutter speed is the same, exposure level is the same, etc. The lowlight results are very close and similar, although if I had to pick one, I would probably prefer the 1520. Where the 1520 really trumps the 920, is in daylight detail and ability to zoom. Perhaps with the Denim update there will be huge improvements, we have already seen this with the 830 so I think there's reason to be optimistic.

Good points you have there.

Personally, I think the camera app should has settings such as minimum auto shutter speed. Or allows us to select a range for the ISO or shutter speed.

At least, the ISO and shutter speed should already be shown without having to set anything. Currently, we have to select either shutter speed or iso before it will show us the other.