[Mallguvner]

This was just one of the guys that's worked there for a few years. I asked him again about the no show of the HTC One for Windows in their selection despite them having 3 phones in the back. He had mentioned once again that no one else has ever come in asking for the HTC One besides me. (I was visiting because my glass screen protector decided to come away from the phone.)

Today he gave me an answer instead of blowing me off. He said that they get a lot of grief over phones returned within the 14 day period and him and his store felt it was mostly Windows phones and mostly because they had failed to warn them about the lack of apps, an unusual operating system compared to what they were used to and a few other issues. He said that was their main problem with the Windows phone. I asked if any of the other manufacturers gave any phones away as promotions to the employees and he just gave me a big... "Are you kidding?"...

Just something to think about...

MG..

[Microsoftjunkie]

So he admit that they "failed" in explaining things which led to returns and to rectify it, they push the phones to the back? That makes zero sense. Obviously they would actually learn the OS and what it offers so that they can explain and possibly teach customers.

That's really sad.

[tgp]

So he admit that they "failed" in explaining things which led to returns and to rectify it, they push the phones to the back? That makes zero sense. Obviously they would actually learn the OS and what it offers so that they can explain and possibly teach customers.

That's really sad.

But would an educated explanation help? Probably it would result in the WPs not being bought in the first place, rather than bought and later returned.

[Microsoftjunkie]

But would an educated explanation help? Probably it would result in the WPs not being bought in the first place, rather than bought and later returned.

Yes, an educated explanation would help tremendously. The same issue like Chromebooks, many returns because they thought it would run some of their favorite programs or other PC features.
If these so called reps would learn what they are selling, and actually sale the product, there wouldn't be a problem for most. Most of these reps are lazy and incompetent. I love going to some of these stores sometimes and ask for wps. Ask for specific apps and functionality, and u know what? 100% of them completely fails. That's beyond unacceptable. MS needs to do something about that.

[spaulagain]

Wow, he actually admitted it's their fault. They just don't know what users to sell them to. My mom a perfect example of a customer that would be and is a viable WP user.

I really hope W10 blows all these issues away.

[theefman]

Not only the sales reps are to blame, how about whoever in the upper ranks makes the deals to carry WP, they should be making sure that proper training is done at the point of sale but they too don't give a toss so any WP is bound to fail on such a carrier.

Sent from my Surface Pro 3 using Tapatalk

[Nicholas Maguire]

I find it hard to believe that that many Windows Phones are returned. I actually know many people with Windows Phones these days, and multiple of them actually love them. Heck, there's one person I had never talked to, then I noticed she had an HTC 8XT, so I started a conversation with her about it. She absolutely LOVES the phone.

[Adrynalyne]

I find it hard to believe that that many Windows Phones are returned. I actually know many people with Windows Phones these days, and multiple of them actually love them. Heck, there's one person I had never talked to, then I noticed she had an HTC 8XT, so I started a conversation with her about it. She absolutely LOVES the phone.

I don't. The first couple times someone tries to get their favorite app and its not there...it goes back. That is how most consumers will treat it.

That and the interface isn't very friendly. Nobody in my family (and I have a big family) enjoys using my phone because they find it difficult.

[Nicholas Maguire]

That and the interface isn't very friendly. Nobody in my family (and I have a big family) enjoys using my phone because they find it difficult.

Now, that's just ignorance of not knowing something. Its interface is more simple than Android. You scroll and click big tiles, what's so hard about that? Lol, I find "Windows Phone is too overly simple" more reasonable than "Windows Phone is too difficult". I swear, sometimes I don't understand the ignorance of people. They declare something too difficult before even giving it a chance. Maybe people aren't good enough for Windows Phone, maybe Windows Phone is too good for the world. They don't deserve it.

[Adrynalyne]

Now, that's just ignorance of not knowing something.

The majority of consumers are ignorant about such things. Knowing that doesn't change anything though. Why do you think Apple is so popular? The UI doesn't get any simpler. Sure their settings are a mess, but most people don't fiddle with the settings enough for it to matter.

How many people do you know who have the attitude of, "you know, I really want to go out there and learn how to use this new and unknown (to me) interface"? Those I do know, use Windows Phone. Those people also (and probably not coincidentally) are software developers and network engineers. Those that "geek out" over something new are not the majority of consumers.

While I can sort of see the "They don't deserve it" stance, it only hurts market share.

[Jas00555]

But would an educated explanation help? Probably it would result in the WPs not being bought in the first place, rather than bought and later returned.

Yes it would help! Enormously help. Lets say you educate the consumers and they buy another phone, fine. Lets say that because of this, the Icon only sells 20,000 instead of 40,000 (guesses). Well, lets say that there are 10,000 people who come into the store later and don't need the latest and greatest of apps and would actually enjoy Windows Phone, well, the problem is that the stores have created their own perceptions of Windows Phone and will now push those 10,000 customers to other devices, when they would've been perfectly happy with a Windows Phone. By scaring off potential customers, you're hurting the platform. Obviously those are arbitrary numbers, but you see my point.

[Penny_1]

It's all about managing expectations guys. A customer who knows what he is getting into is more willing to accept any necessary sacrifices and focus on the positives of the experience for which they made their choice. A customer who doesn't know what he is getting into will have a series of unpleasant experiences when they run into deficiencies or idiosyncrasies that they didn't think they were signing up for. They will regret their decision and likely return the device, going next for what is popular among the people with whom they mostly interact. They'll be able to accept any sacrifices in the second choice, because their expectations are now better managed.

[kencaz]

Yes, an educated explanation would help tremendously. The same issue like Chromebooks, many returns because they thought it would run some of their favorite programs or other PC features.
If these so called reps would learn what they are selling, and actually sale the product, there wouldn't be a problem for most. Most of these reps are lazy and incompetent. I love going to some of these stores sometimes and ask for wps. Ask for specific apps and functionality, and u know what? 100% of them completely fails. That's beyond unacceptable. MS needs to do something about that.

MS had a similar issue when the original surface came out. Best buy employees did not even know what RT was and were telling customers that it was windows and they could run all their programs on it. Boy were they surprised when they got it home. Then they right a neg review because they don't understand it. It's sad but true that some great tech get's a bad rap because of ignorance.

[troylytle]

My store only carries Nokia windows phones. We just sell the camera. I can even sell a 635 because it is stupid cheap and easier than anything else to use.

[colinkiama]

Well if you think about there is little to no tutorial system when you start the phone. You have to find your way to the help and tips. It is actually not that easy to learn straight away.

[jonnaver]

But would an educated explanation help? Probably it would result in the WPs not being bought in the first place, rather than bought and later returned.

I agree, you can't sit and blame store reps for a market situation that rests more on Microsoft's shoulders. Even with the gains android has made in the last few years, it was the iPhone 6 that everyone was waiting to see before it came out, not the next Samsung. Everyone still views the iPhone as the standard for comparison. You can't blame a store rep for that.

[jlzimmerman]

..an unusual operating system compared to what they were used to and a few other issues.

I might agree about lack of certain apps, but this is BS. They have no problem selling an Android to someone coming off iOS or vice versa. The unusual operating system excuse is one of convenience because they don't know anything about it and want to try to minimize their phone tech incompetence.

[Nogitsune Micah]

I don't. The first couple times someone tries to get their favorite app and its not there...it goes back. That is how most consumers will treat it.

That and the interface isn't very friendly. Nobody in my family (and I have a big family) enjoys using my phone because they find it difficult.

Noticed the Poster of this post and I just shook my head and laughed as I am not surprised.

The interface is perfectly fine. While it looks different, a Live tile and resizing it and setting it up on your start screen is no different than setting up a widget on Android. Given the fact that in our store, a lot of Windows Phones owners are senior citizens who are looking for their first smartphone and go for phones like the 520, 530 and 630....just because your family struggles with it(poor them) doesn't mean it is not user friendly.

Now, that's just ignorance of not knowing something. Its interface is more simple than Android. You scroll and click big tiles, what's so hard about that? Lol, I find "Windows Phone is too overly simple" more reasonable than "Windows Phone is too difficult". I swear, sometimes I don't understand the ignorance of people. They declare something too difficult before even giving it a chance. Maybe people aren't good enough for Windows Phone, maybe Windows Phone is too good for the world. They don't deserve it.

Exactly I can see someone saying "it is too simple it feels dumbed down" vs "It's complicated to use."
Anyone who struggles to use a Windows Phone, I have to question what other things they struggle with. We may not have a tutorial but if a tile says "Phone" common sense would tell you that is the phone option. The live tiles are even more self-explanatory in what they do than the Widgets/icons of android.

The only thing I could probably see someone struggling with is the hot mess of our settings menu(I still have a hard time finding certain settings when I need them).

[Nogitsune Micah]

Given I work in sales, I don't full know Android or IOS but I do know Windows Phone. I can easily push and sell a Windows Phone over an android and IOS device simply because every customer I've sold one to who wanted this particular app or that particular app, I gave them an alternative.

Vine= 6 sec
Instagram- 6tag
Snapcaht= 6snap
tinder= 6tin
youtube= mytube(my preferred one), Metrotube, toib, etc etc

When asked why there is no official youtube app, I explain to them that at this time that Google is not supporting the WP platform and that while they don't, there are a lot of good alternatives and hidden gems in the OS that a lot of people don't know about.

It's how I sell Windows Phones and educate people. I let people know also about the shortcomings of our OS and I also then talk about the integration within their lives(A lot of these people use Microsoft products already such as Xbox, Office, etc etc) and the integration the OS has presently and is moving towards in Windows 10.

I don't always manage to sell Windows phones. Sometimes, I lose and that saddens me. But I then manage to sell an Android or IOS by doing the same exact thing.

I personally hate android but I am able to keep my bias aside to give the customer what they need. Although, yesterday I did try and push hard for the user to get a Lumia 928 and support Microsoft/Nokia products over the M8.

Sigh, while they didn't get the M8, they did at least walk out with a SE :P I'll call that a draw :D

[tgp]

Yes it would help! Enormously help. Lets say you educate the consumers and they buy another phone, fine. Lets say that because of this, the Icon only sells 20,000 instead of 40,000 (guesses). Well, lets say that there are 10,000 people who come into the store later and don't need the latest and greatest of apps and would actually enjoy Windows Phone, well, the problem is that the stores have created their own perceptions of Windows Phone and will now push those 10,000 customers to other devices, when they would've been perfectly happy with a Windows Phone. By scaring off potential customers, you're hurting the platform. Obviously those are arbitrary numbers, but you see my point.

Got ya! Your explanation makes sense. However, we'll probably never know if it plays out this way in real life!

I might agree about lack of certain apps, but this is BS. They have no problem selling an Android to someone coming off iOS or vice versa. The unusual operating system excuse is one of convenience because they don't know anything about it and want to try to minimize their phone tech incompetence.

It's relatively simple to switch from iPhone to Android or vice versa. They're quite similar in both UI and in capability. WP is completely different in both areas. WP for the most part doesn't have "must-have" features over iPhone & Android, or at least features that users care about. For the vast majority of users there's not a compelling reason to switch.

[Loco5150]

Lol I had a better look at the discussion here and thought I should edit my post…

The app gap and everything is real. There is no way around that. The market share is so low, that even to the stores it does not make big sense to keep the devices on display. I don’t think there is a conspiracy here anywhere, that’s market economy.

With Windows Phone you will be missing many of the apps iOS and Android has, or at least the apps lack features and are rarely updated. WP Instagram is in BETA for god sakes! One of the most used app FACEBOOK was few months ago so horrible, that Im sure hell is something where people are forced to use it over and over again... Even though its better now it still lacks features and does give the occasional "cant get data right now" or whatever it is.

Even operators have costs on supporting devices and pushing OS updates to them. Im sure Verizon for example didn’t make any money from ICON when you take out all costs that went in to the support and promotion.

[Tepid]

Anyone that finds a WP to complicated, also thinks a Keurig is overly complicated, guaranteed. Ignorance is a blissful sleepwalk through life.

[colinkiama]

The interface is actually very easy to use but people are ignorant against it due to windows 8. They always say it's so complicated until they actually try it out

[Loc Ngo]

Here is my story:
With WPs: 5 minutes to get used to the navigation and 10 minutes to use the OS like a boss. (without user manual and any guide)
With iPhones: 5 hours to just figure out a way to close all the apps and open the Siri because somehow it was turned off. (without user manual and any guide)
With Android Phones: still no luck till this day. I can never try all the features of the damn OS. (again without user manual)
So, it's the laziness of people, not the fault of Windows.

[realwarder]

Windows Phone is an easy sell to anyone over 50. It's light years ahead of any feature phone and those providing it has Facebook and Skype for the grandkids they're happy. They also feel safe with Windows.