04-02-2016 05:42 AM
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  1. kristalsoldier's Avatar
    While I may be wrong about MS, saying Google locks you to their platform is just absurd. The majority of their services are available across all platforms, and have been since before Android came to be. Remember, they weren't always in the OS business so with no platform of their own, they had to make their services available across the board. I use both OSX and Windows, iOS and Android, and all my Google stuff is easily accessed no matter what platform I'm on. The only reason why some of their stuff is limited on Windows Phone, is the same reason why everybody else's stuff is limited- WP just isn't that popular and doesn't have much market share at all, so developing for WP isn't a top priority.

    Edit: Just wanted to add that on WP, you can't even change your search provider from Bing, just like Google is the default for Android. The only problem with that is who the hell uses Bing?? And on Windows 8, if you set a different browser as your default, Microsoft won't let you use the metro UI for IE. It's their browser or nothing.



    Yeah well the mining is how Google makes their money so it comes with the territory. All of their services are free to the end user, so they have to make their money somehow, and that's through mining and subsequently, targeted ads. But the nice thing is you can opt out of a lot of it. And yeah, Android does have some really, REALLY nice phones. I'm using the 2014 Moto X and it's probably the nicest smartphone ever made. I've had 20+ smartphones since 2009 and the Moto X is easily my favorite. I really wanted to love the Lumina 830, but Nokia cut the wrong corners. It is just way too underpowered. If the 930 was available for AT&T I would probably still be using WP. But I am glad the 830 ended up being a dud, because I returned it, and put the money towards a Surface Pro 3 which is the coolest thing ever. Typing on it now, I'm in love :)
    Yeah well, I have had the SP3 since June 20th, which I use everyday for over 12 hours per day and it goes with me wherever I go! I recently bought the L830 and I am quite happy with it. And, for the record, I also have an iPad Air (though I only use it as an e-reader) and the Nexus 10 (which I never take online - unless it is to install OS updates), which I use a dedicated video player.

    Edit: I quite like Google's search engine, which I used to use all the time till recently. Currently, I am using Bing and its all right though I still think Google is better. I do use Google's search engine from time to time. At other times, I use DogPile.
    01-03-2015 12:23 AM
  2. a5cent's Avatar
    All of Google's services are available on literally every platform that has an internet browser. From Gmail, to Drive, to Docs, etc... all available online.
    This is not quite correct. WP is a platform with an internet browser, but Google deliberately serves crippled HTML (stuff from the early 2000's) to any device identifying as WP. Try and use Google search or maps on WP. You'll feel you've been transported back in time by at least a decade.
    01-03-2015 12:24 AM
  3. alacrityvirtue's Avatar
    UPDATE: I did a hard reset and most of the issues are now ok, except the awful reception, which is a deal breaker for me, so now I need to try and find another phone that I will be happy with. Is there a site or list of phones that have really good reception, or is there something that I need to look out for in the spec's?
    01-03-2015 12:26 AM
  4. D M C's Avatar
    Well, for one, MS just open sourced a decade's worth of .NET research & development, while also contributing to its reference implementation on Linux, which I think has around 2% desktop market share.
    That's a billion dollars+ worth of effort they gave away for free to anybody that wants it.
    That will also further strengthen ongoing efforts like Mono or Xamarin, which already do a god job of leveraging Microsoft's development technologies (C#, xaml) on competing platforms... oh yeah... all of that will also be coming to Chrome OS... a platform with even less market share than Linux.
    When was the last time Apple or Google contributed anything to the developer community, that wasn't focused specifically on there own ecosystems? Did they ever? Sun did it. IBM does it. MS has done a lot of it...
    You need look no further than these company's business models and culture to recognize that they can't possibly all behave identically. IMHO those differences matter, or at least they matter to me.
    Aren't you forgetting Android here sir.
    Open source Android to Developers community.

    I don't know what Apple did but MS didn't contributed more than Google to Developers community.

    As I said in the end both Google and MS are doing same thing.
    It's just the fan who think of evil but both are doing business.
    01-03-2015 01:09 AM
  5. Noahma's Avatar
    As I said in the end both Google and MS are doing same thing.
    It's just the fan who think of evil but both are doing business.
    Not quite. Microsoft is a Software company, they are there to sell their software, services and devices to customers. Google is an Advertising company. Their purpose is to mine data to SELL to companies wanting to sell their products, and push advertisements to potential customers for there products.

    I trust Microsoft more than I do Google for the simple fact that Microsoft's main purpose is NOT to sell my data to companies, but to sell their products and services to me.
    01-03-2015 03:12 AM
  6. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    Not quite. Microsoft is a Software company, they are there to sell their software, services and devices to customers. Google is an Advertising company. Their purpose is to mine data to SELL to companies wanting to sell their products, and push advertisements to potential customers for there products.

    I trust Microsoft more than I do Google for the simple fact that Microsoft's main purpose is NOT to sell my data to companies, but to sell their products and services to me.
    Google doesn't sell your data. It is in Google's best interest to NOT sell your data. This is a huge misconception thrown around casually
    techiez likes this.
    01-03-2015 03:26 AM
  7. kristalsoldier's Avatar
    Google doesn't sell your data. It is in Google's best interest to NOT sell your data. This is a huge misconception thrown around casually
    And you know this how?
    01-03-2015 03:40 AM
  8. Noahma's Avatar
    Google doesn't sell your data. It is in Google's best interest to NOT sell your data. This is a huge misconception thrown around casually
    They may not sell your data directly to companies, but they do sell their services to direct advertise to you using the data they collected. I personally am sick and tired of advertisements. If I want a product, I do the research and decide if I want it. I do not need it spoon fed to me everywhere, with everything you could possibly slap an advertisement on.

    My personal hate for this has to do with a Christmas present I was researching for my wife. I made the mistake of using Google to do the research on it, well for a few weeks I had advertisements popping up on EVERY website I visited in regards to the present I had been researching. It almost ruined the surprise because my wife does use my computer, and does google occasionally to search as well. Had she been paying attention, she would have figured out the present weeks before I even ordered it. It took me a long while of searching for a few other things for the advertisements to roll over to the new "interest"
    bsbharath1987 likes this.
    01-03-2015 03:48 AM
  9. D M C's Avatar
    And This thread change to Google is evil, untrustworthy company who sell users personal data and MS not because we are the fan(with half info) of MS.
    Same thing Again & again.

    Lets back to topic
    Dissatisfaction from L830.
    01-03-2015 04:15 AM
  10. FAHMI BASSEM's Avatar
    I'm confused, should get it, or wait for a new Lumia??
    01-03-2015 04:18 AM
  11. a5cent's Avatar
    Aren't you forgetting Android here sir.
    Open source Android to Developers community.

    No. I'm not forgetting. Android is not what I was asking about. If Google would contribute their ART runtime for all Java developers to use on all platforms, or very notably improve upon fundamentals of the Java language constructs and language spec, then it would be comparable. Those would be the type of things on par with MS contributions to the advancement of the software engineering profession as a whole. I specifically asked about the contribution of technologies that are of utility/value beyond just one company's own ecosystem. All we can mention in Google's favor is Android, which is no longer really open source, nor of relevance to anything beyond Android itself.

    Your desire to view all players as behavioural equals is blinding you just as much as those who refuse to see Google as anything but "evil" and MS as anything but good. On a side note: I don't think anybody really agrees with the good vs. evil mindset. Google probably brought that on themselves with their "do no evil" slogan.
    Last edited by a5cent; 01-03-2015 at 05:57 PM.
    link68759 and Noahma like this.
    01-03-2015 06:50 AM
  12. D M C's Avatar
    No. I'm not forgetting. Android is not what I was asking about. If Google would contribute their ART runtime for all Java developers to use on all platforms, or very notably improve upon fundamentals of the Java language constructs and language spec, then it would be comparable. Those would be the type of things on par with MS contributions to the advancement of the software engineering profession as a whole. I specifically asked about the contribution of technologies that are of utility/value beyond just one company's own ecosystem. All we can mention in Google's favor is Android, which is no longer really open source, nor of relevance to anything beyond Android itself.
    Your desire to view all players as behavioural equals is blinding you just as much as those who refuse to see Google as anything but "evil" and MS as anything but good.
    I don't understand why not Android.
    As far as my knowledge goes companies like Cyanogen Mod , Amazon etc using open source Android.

    You can't expect Google will contribute same thing as MS.
    You asked me about Art , I asked you why not WP or Windows?
    01-03-2015 07:01 AM
  13. a5cent's Avatar
    You can't expect Google will contribute same thing as MS.

    You asked me about Art , I asked you why not WP or Windows?
    But it would be fair to expect both companies to make similar contributions, right? What you are doing is akin to comparing two people who contribute 1 dollar and 1 billion to cancer research and then calling the contributions equal because they both contributed.

    And yes... the entire .NET infrastructure and runtime is a huge part of both Windows and WP!

    I don't understand why not Android.

    As far as my knowledge goes
    Like I said, those "contributions" are completely irrelevant to anything outside the Android ecosystem itself. That's not in the same league as contributing things that advance the state of the industry and the software profession as a whole. That's the difference.

    I'll let you have the last word, as you are right that it's off topic. I just completely disagree with the view that these companies are all essentially the same and that it makes no difference what consumers choose. All will strive to become monopoly powers, but how the tech world works and is run is very much shaped by which of these company's is more successful, leading to very different tech landscapes, to which I'm not all equally sympathetic.
    Last edited by a5cent; 01-03-2015 at 08:11 AM.
    link68759 likes this.
    01-03-2015 07:04 AM
  14. link68759's Avatar
    As far as my knowledge goes companies like Cyanogen Mod , Amazon etc using open source Android.

    Yes and no. There's some dirty politics here. Getting a company like Amazon to take Android and use it for their own devices was a huge benefit to a growing Android in the face of iPhone's massive market share. Now that Android has a firm footing, Google sees Amazon not as an ally, but a competitor. So, in order to compete with Amazon, Google has been silently pouring more functionality into their proprietary, closed source play services. The open source part of Android alone is actually rather bare bones, forcing Amazon to implement redundant (also closed source) features to bring parity to their own devices.

    Meanwhile, Google has also added to their SDK a number of hooks that make the lives of developers easier, but if you use them the closed source play services are a required dependency for your app to run... Android's fragmentation problem is not just for OS versions, but increasingly the OS is growing fragmented between different OEMs! Such a mess.
    Ordeith likes this.
    01-03-2015 11:11 AM
  15. D M C's Avatar
    Yes and no. There's some dirty politics here. Getting a company like Amazon to take Android and use it for their own devices was a huge benefit to a growing Android in the face of iPhone's massive market share. Now that Android has a firm footing, Google sees Amazon not as an ally, but a competitor. So, in order to compete with Amazon, Google has been silently pouring more functionality into their proprietary, closed source play services. The open source part of Android alone is actually rather bare bones, forcing Amazon to implement redundant (also closed source) features to bring parity to their own devices.

    Meanwhile, Google has also added to their SDK a number of hooks that make the lives of developers easier, but if you use them the closed source play services are a required dependency for your app to run... Android's fragmentation problem is not just for OS versions, but increasingly the OS is growing fragmented between different OEMs! Such a mess.
    This will be my last comment to this topic.

    I don't understand what dirty politics you are talking about?
    Google is doing business not charity.
    Apply this logic where ever you think it is dirty politics. Everything will be crystal clear.
    01-03-2015 11:56 AM
  16. spazzmeister's Avatar
    Why are people so mad at Google? Don't you have third party apps for YouTube now?
    01-03-2015 12:07 PM
  17. link68759's Avatar
    This will be my last comment to this topic.

    I don't understand what dirty politics you are talking about?
    Google is doing business not charity.
    Apply this logic where ever you think it is dirty politics. Everything will be crystal clear.


    The way in which one conducts business is still subject to ethical concerns, despite your implied "business is business" outlook on the matter. There's certainly no scandal here, but the end result of this squabble is decidedly anti consumer, which is really all that I intended to bring up.

    I'd just like to point out that you focused on one rather irrelevant word without addressing or acknowledging the actual content of my post. I don't find that very sporting.
    Ordeith, a5cent and kristalsoldier like this.
    01-03-2015 12:07 PM
  18. Derausgewanderte's Avatar
    I'm confused, should get it, or wait for a new Lumia??
    It depends. If I had the money I would wait another couple months for a top quality phone from MS. I don't and after I purchased the L830 my wife and I are very happy with our L830s. It's a great "call it what you like" or side-grade from the L920 we had before.
    You have to make that decision. My opinion from the posts I've read and the reviews I've seen, the L830 is a good phone.
    01-04-2015 12:04 AM
  19. tooly26's Avatar
    I think its a nice middle range phone + very good camera + SD slot...
    gEtApATaLkEd
    01-04-2015 12:19 AM
  20. techiez's Avatar
    I think the posts deviated a lot from the original discussion, coming back to L830's performance, W8.1 has stutters and lag, ppl with 525 535 730 735 may put up with it but 830 is pricey, and ppl dont expect sub par performance with it, MS branded it as affordable flagship but irony is, its neither affordable nor flagship. I would suggest OP to either take 930 or take 730, with 730 atleast he'll be happy that he's not bought a pricey device and seeing stutters/lags
    01-04-2015 12:26 AM
  21. Nahuel 1988's Avatar
    I think the posts deviated a lot from the original discussion, coming back to L830's performance, W8.1 has stutters and lag, ppl with 525 535 730 735 may put up with it but 830 is pricey, and ppl dont expect sub par performance with it, MS branded it as affordable flagship but irony is, its neither affordable nor flagship. I would suggest OP to either take 930 or take 730, with 730 atleast he'll be happy that he's not bought a pricey device and seeing stutters/lags
    The 730s are nowhere to be found. And they go for 450 on Amazon and eBay, when in stores here, that's what they charge you for a 830. I was looking for a 730 to offer as a gift, ended up just getting a 1020 when they went 50% off on the Microsoft Store.
    01-04-2015 12:31 AM
  22. Nahuel 1988's Avatar
    Forgot to mention by here, I mean Canada haha 😆
    01-04-2015 12:32 AM
  23. Derausgewanderte's Avatar
    back to L830's performance, W8.1 has stutters and lag, ppl with 525 535 730 735 may put up with it but 830 is pricey, and ppl dont expect sub par performance with it,
    alright then. We must be doing something wrong with our L830s here....
    01-04-2015 12:38 AM
  24. Darth litku's Avatar
    I been using 830 for almost 3 weeks... I already used 720 and 1320... My only complaint is that when in wifi/data i feel that my battery drains faster than my previous phone. And when zooming in there is a delay... But other than that i havent experienced problems some of the users experiencing...
    01-04-2015 12:59 AM
  25. nessinhaw's Avatar
    i still have no idea wtf these stutters and lags are lol

    i had a Moto X 1st gen before and i feel the 830 is so much snappier!

    the only times you might notice some lag is when heavy tasking but even then, it's not that bad!

    about choosing another search provider, it is possible through IE! now throw their own search tool, AKA, the surch button down there...ofc not! does Google let you change the provider from the (official) search bar in the main screen? I don't think so!
    01-04-2015 01:46 AM
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