[ArcticArrow]

Hi guys, I have been wondering...

That the reason it took MS/Nokia before for a prolong period of releaseing firmware update in the past is that the firmware itself has to be tested etc etc, so for example the Cyan update is basically a wp8.1 + firmware specific update. FINE.

BUW now, the Demim is NOTHING except the new update from MS Phone system, in other words, MS is giving nothing in terms of firmware specific updated; and the update for the OS is already there for a while?

Why does it take so long to have Denim on 1020 then?

[patrikmore]

I'm asking the same. What are they waiting for? If it is going to be just the Preview for Developers already working, why are they pushing so hard putting their image at risk? As we are stuck inside the only flagship and better camera, it's normal we criticize heavily.

[Reddeviluk]

I'm blown away that my Mothers cheap 535 and my wife's new 930 both have Cortana but I don't (UK).... The 930 still shows as Cyan too.... WHERE'S MY CORTANA???

[Marcos Buccella]

Just update using PfD

[Reddeviluk]

Doesn't that risk screwing my phone up though? Is new and my daily use device so I cannot afford to destroy it.

[xandros9]

Doesn't that risk screwing my phone up though? Is new and my daily use device so I cannot afford to destroy it.

Not any more than a normal software update. It's safe enough for me and others to do that. I've done it to friends, they've had no issues.

but of course, the safest way is to not do it. You know, "if it aint broke don't fix it"

[ArcticArrow]

Yes. I have tried preview before for 8.1, but remember those problems for encryption only applying from preview version? Anyway, the point is, if there is no change in firmware, and 8.1 update is already there, why can't they release now? What else do they need to test when there is only nothing to test??

[ArcticArrow]

The only reason I can think of is marketing purpose. They want people to think that denim is such a huge update for 4 phones, so even though there is nothing for the rest, they have to wait otherwise the market will think there is nothing in denim..

[gpgalanis]

PfD is not the answer. Yes it is an option but I expect the official Denim and this huge delay is simply a joke from MS side along with the missing camera features.

[Harrie-S]

PfD is not the answer. Yes it is an option but I expect the official Denim and this huge delay is simply a joke from MS side along with the missing camera features.

If it is a joke than it's not a funny one.

[P_1]

Yes guys even I'm waiting for denim update for Lumia 920 India. It was supposed to be released in first week of January but no news about the update. Still wondering what is holding them back for releasing an update. And top to that there is no communication from the Microsoft about the update. Come on guys don't make us wait.

[msirapian]

I think the OP makes a wrong assumption here: how do we know the FW won't change? Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting NEW features, but bug fixes. I know for sure that an old camera bug (RAW files not being geotagged) is solved in the next FW update (source : Juha Alakarhu). And after all the Finnish 1020 got a minor-but-not-as-minor-as-520 Cyan update in Dec (3051.50009.1424.000x-->3051.50009.1447.0001).

So it's possible that "denim" roll out is delayed because of a FW update (unlike the 520 which didn't get any FW update at all).

Another possibility: they sent "Denim" (only GDR1) to 520 and low ends as they're visible, then the real Denim to 930 1520 830, and now they'll take care of the older Pureviews (which are always mixed together in "others" in all Ad-Duplex charts).

So yes, no new features, but it doesn't exclude a FW update whichm given the specific bugs of the 1020 (freezes, etc) may take more time to validate (including by carriers).

[ArcticArrow]

Hope you are right then

[msirapian]

Well @lumiahelp told me the 1447 FW is only for Finland, to fix "Finnish 1020 instabilities". This sounds as b*llocks. All EU 1020 (32 GB variants) are RM-875, so for the freezes (not limited to Finland), I don't see why the 1447 firmware would be for Finland only.

I've asked if the camera freeze bug (which is different from the freezes of the 1020/925) is fixed to Juha and David Fredh (from MS) ; David thanked me for the helpful input, the issue is that we have ALREADY reported him the bug last summer...

Anyway, "he's checking with the team" what's the 1020 FW is fixing, camera-wise.

[JaniM]

RM-875_eu_finland_208

[KhawarNadeem]

I think the OP makes a wrong assumption here: how do we know the FW won't change?

Because Microsoft pretty much admitted that there is no firmware change for older phones. Sure, MAYBE a few driver tweaks, but considering how long people have waited, it doesn't sit well. Especially considering Microsoft is one of the world's biggest companies with a reputation to uphold, and isn't constrained by things like resources much. This is Cyan all over again, and I'm very surprised as to how at one end Microsoft makes a Windows 10 build available BEFORE the officially announced date, and yet (MAYBE) fixing some phone drivers seems to take months?

[JaniM]

...and isn't constrained by things like resources much. This is Cyan all over again, and I'm very surprised as to how at one end Microsoft makes a Windows 10 build available BEFORE the officially announced date, and yet (MAYBE) fixing some phone drivers seems to take months?

How much resources is actually wise to put upgrading old devices and how much is actually put into developing Win10 and newer phones. Think about that.

[msirapian]

OS is the same for all devices, firmware is not. And if the RF ROM is impacted somehow, then I presume the nightmare of carrier validation is even more reinforced.

Wait & see, maybe I'm wrong, as long as the new FW is not rolled out, my take on this is ALSO an assumption.

[patrikmore]

The best campaign is caring about customers. Think about that.

[KhawarNadeem]

How much resources is actually wise to put upgrading old devices and how much is actually put into developing Win10 and newer phones. Think about that.

I agree with you completely, my friend. It's not a good business decision to invest more resources than necessary in older devices. But Microsoft is rushing ahead and leaving old users in the dust. First it was when Cyan came out, they couldn't even get the Cyan update out on time (it was a mess) but the very stable dev preview for 8.1.1 was already available (and then people on PfD couldn't even get Cyan).
The point I'm trying to make is, MS is moving too quickly and not letting users keep pace. Icon is still on Black, and it's been a year. While I applaud Microsoft's effort to move quickly in this changing mobile landscape, I also wish they would not release new versions in alpha stages until the previous rollouts are done. It's kind of their obligation, if they want to keep users's brand loyalty.

[JaniM]

I totally agree. Somehow I still rather want them to focus to Windows 10 instead. That's a big thing for us customers that we get windows 10 for our older phones too. And I think that every phone that gets Win10 will have to be updated firmware wise also. I just hope that it isn't too late when it's finally released.

[Reddeviluk]

Going by past (and present) experience..... It will be VERY late.

[Mr Lebowski]

Just update using PfD

You won't get the Denim update it's firmware, PfD is only OS updates.

[CSJr1]

Found out how to force Denim on phone and bypass carrier. This is only for 1020, so not sure about other phones! Steps:

1. Go to settings->Phone Update->check for update
2. (Quickly while its checking) Go to settings->About->more info
3. Tap on the "Os version" text 6 times until it says "you are now a developer"
4. SOFT RESET your phone by holding the power button then sliding down the lock screen.
5. Upon reboot, you will see a message that says "Denim is ready to download, click OK to continue"
( may take multiple attempts because the check for update may complete <10 seconds)




If this doesn't work, click your heels three times while chanting "There's no place like Denim" and realize that I used this levity to deal with my impatience.

[xandros9]

If this doesn't work, click your heels three times while chanting "There's no place like Denim" and realize that I used this levity to deal with my impatience.

That post isn't very nice. Someone's going to go on a wild goose chase now.