Will an "unlocked" 950XL work on Verizon?

[createdforsuccess]

We should all tweet we hate Verizon has anyone got their twitter handle.

I tweeted them asking questions about the phone and had another friend retweet it.

 

[falconrap]

I hear ya but, you and everyone here seems to be 100% that it's just a firmware that could unlock CDMA. When I am saying it's not. So this is why I said, get internal images of a 929(CDMA) and a 930 (GSM) and we will clear this up 100%. There is more hardware than just a CPU that does CDMA, as I understand.

How ever at this point, the odds of this phone (or the 950) coming to Verizon is very slim... if even possible at this point due to how Verizon took on WIndows Phone in the past and how they handle updates.

It will be interesting if Verizon changes their tune but, for a phone that holds about 3% of the marketplace, I would not get hopes up too high.

DavdinCT, as an Electronics Engineer, let me tell you that you are incorrect. Period. I don't have the Qualcomm 810 datasheet, but they do have their logic diagrams out and I've reviewed exactly how their system works. The antennas have to be shaped to pull in the frequencies in question. They are, as WCDMA has bands 2 and 5 operating in about the same range. These antennas will pull in the signal regardless of the modulation that is in the wave. The signal is then presented to the RF360 front end transceiver which electrically shapes the antennas and amplifies the signals via mosfets. The amplified signal goes to the X10 modem which separates the modulated signal from the base signal, presenting the data/voice stream to the Hexagon V56 DSP (Digital Signal Processor) which then decodes the signal and transfers the data/voice to the appropriate modules in the 810. All of these components, save the antennas, are integrated into the 810. They are inseparable from the device, and Qualcomm doesn't have a model with CDMA BC0/BC1 bands, nor LTE Band 13, disabled. What determines whether a band can be used is whether or not the firmware allows the particular modulation to be decoded or not. If this is not enabled, then the signal is just white noise.

I'm not claiming that the 950/950XL's will be enabled to use CDMA & LTE Band 13. Any band and cellular protocol that MS wants these phones to be able to use most be certified for EMI and SAR ratings in each of those modes via the FCC. Testing these bands, then sending them for certification by the FCC, costs money. MS might choose not to do so to save costs on the phones and headaches with customers trying to enable their phones on unfriendly networks; i.e. Verizon (Sprint can lock phones out since they aren't beholden to an FCC agreement for spectrum like Verizon is). When someone can produce the FCC cellular certifications, we'll know if MS could allow the devices on VZW, whether unlocked or via a later firmware update should Verizon cave and give MS what they want. If they didn't certify them, then they'll need to go back and do so, which would likely mean another model, due to the ramifications with phones already sold (assuming this occurred after phones started selling). The 929 and 930 were certified with different sets of bands and protocols enabled, which was probably a demand from Verizon at the time. In fact the 929 was certified with only Verizon's LTE bands, and with slower WCDMA modem capability (probably a slower modem revision of the Snapdragon 800 - they do have various models that have improved modem speeds as well as CPU speeds).

In a nutshell, if MS wants these phones to work on VZW's bands, they could enable and certify them. Only money, certification, and customer support costs are in the way. I don't think they will have the bands enabled, but you never know until the phones actually hit. MS could be ginning up desire for the phone and backlash against VZW to get the phones on their network under MS's conditions. Or MS could truly be done with VZW, middle finger style. In any case, barring a sudden announcement in the next month or so, AT&T it is, and VZW WILL hear from me.

 

[Generalheed]

Bottom line is, the Lumia 950 and 950 XL are physically compatible with Verizon. The Qualcomm chipset supports CDMA as well as Verizon's LTE bands and the radio antenna is tuned to receive the same frequencies as Verizon. There's no physical reason why these phones won't support Verizon.

I don't know if it'll make a difference, but perhaps a petition is in order? Try this?

 

[NOLATechy]

And given the p155-poor treatment Microsoft got from Verizon with the previous Windows phones, I don't blame Microsoft one bit! Verizon treated the Lumia Icon like 5h1t. Not only did they not support it, but I actually witnessed Verizon salesman trying to sway people away from Windows phones. When I went to trade in my Lumia 928 for my Lumia Icon, I was told by the salesperson, "You should really try the iPhone, it's so much better than the Windows phone." My response to him won't be repeated here. So, in short, Microsoft had no choice but to go this route because carriers (especially Verizon) were trying to destroy Windows phones. Personally, I believe payoffs were happening from Google and Apple, but have no proof of this.

 

[mjperry51]

I hear ya but, you and everyone here seems to be 100% that it's just a firmware that could unlock CDMA. When I am saying it's not. So this is why I said, get internal images of a 929(CDMA) and a 930 (GSM) and we will clear this up 100%. There is more hardware than just a CPU that does CDMA, as I understand.

Never said it, and agree. What I don't appreciate is having my very specific comments being "lumped in" with a group of statements that have little direct connection with what I'm saying. . .

 

[NOLATechy]

I won't sign your petition because your petition is placing blame on the wrong entity. It is NOT Microsoft's fault that Verizon won't receive the Lumia 950 or 950XL, it is Verizon's fault. Microsoft's biggest promotion for Windows 10 sales is the "constant upgrading of the Windows 10 ecosystem for all devices." You can't very well have that experience if Verizon won't let Microsoft update the phones. This is where the disagreement lies between Verizon and Microsoft, and I can't say I blame Microsoft because Verizon doesn't seem to have a problem with Apple being able to control the updates to it's iPhones. Since Microsoft now makes the Lumia line (just like Apple makes the iPhones), there is no reason why Microsoft shouldn't receive the same update/upgrade treatment that Apple receives.

So, my suggestion is that you start a petition to force Verizon to allow Microsoft the same update/upgrade treatment that Apple receives and demand Verizon allow Microsoft to sell the Lumia 950/950XL on their network. That petition, I would sign in a heartbeat!

 

[Eric Chew]

Actually, it sorta is Microsoft's fault. They admitted to it. They're "choosing the carriers that want to work WITH them". Verizon has a long history of not working with Microsoft going way back to the early days of Windows Mobile (WinCE version).

 

[NOLATechy]

Verizon demands control over Microsoft's new Windows 10 phones while not placing this same strict control over Apple's iPhone. So you blame Microsoft for not wanting to cave to the stupid demands that Verizon is unfairly projecting upon Microsoft? I guess it's the old lady's fault for allowing the burgler to snatch her purse huh? Really?!? This is NOT Microsoft's fault, the blame belongs squarely on the perpetrator of injustice - Verizon! I am a Verizon customer, but won't be if I can't get the phone I WANT on their network. I'm not loyal to a carrier, I'm loyal to the Lumia line. I had an iPhone, I had two Android devices, but I choose the Lumia 950XL. If Verizon won't give it to me, I'll go with the carrier that will!

 

[primortal]

This is what perplexes me... If Microsoft doesn't want to deal with Verizon's idiotic demands fine, then just sell the phones unlocked. Can Verizon stop those unlocked devices from connecting to their network if all the proper pieces are in place on the device?

 

[libra89]

This is what perplexes me... If Microsoft doesn't want to deal with Verizon's idiotic demands fine, then just sell the phones unlocked. Can Verizon stop those unlocked devices from connecting to their network if all the proper pieces are in place on the device?

From my understanding and also from what others have explained earlier in the thread, they still can, because they have to be able to recognize the device.

 

[a5cent]

This is what perplexes me... If Microsoft doesn't want to deal with Verizon's idiotic demands fine, then just sell the phones unlocked. Can Verizon stop those unlocked devices from connecting to their network if all the proper pieces are in place on the device?

Yes. They can.

If Verizon wanted to play hardball, they might have told MS that they would not allow any WM device to be activated on or connect to their network, even if the device was fully compatible with Verizon's cellular service. I'm not saying that's what happened. I have no idea what did or didn't happen. At least technically, Verizon does have that capability however.

 

[Eric Chew]

Verizon demands control over Microsoft's new Windows 10 phones while not placing this same strict control over Apple's iPhone. So you blame Microsoft for not wanting to cave to the stupid demands that Verizon is unfairly projecting upon Microsoft? I guess it's the old lady's fault for allowing the burgler to snatch her purse huh? Really?!? This is NOT Microsoft's fault, the blame belongs squarely on the perpetrator of injustice - Verizon! I am a Verizon customer, but won't be if I can't get the phone I WANT on their network. I'm not loyal to a carrier, I'm loyal to the Lumia line. I had an iPhone, I had two Android devices, but I choose the Lumia 950XL. If Verizon won't give it to me, I'll go with the carrier that will!

Yes, Microsoft is to blame for disabling the radio. I'm in the same boat as you, and yes I'm pissed about this. My response to Verizon doing what they do is switching to AT&T. Simple.

 

[Eric Chew]

Yes. They can.

If Verizon wanted to play hardball, they might have told MS that they would not allow any WM device to be activated on or connect to their network, even if the device was fully compatible with Verizon's cellular service. I'm not saying that's what happened. I have no idea what did or didn't happen. At least technically, Verizon does have that capability however.

Actually, no they can't - by law. As part of spectrum buy-up, they need to allow any device that supports their technology to work on their service. If they refuse, you can report it to the FCC.

 

[a5cent]

Actually, no they can't - by law. As part of spectrum buy-up, they need to allow any device that supports their technology to work on their service. If they refuse, you can report it to the FCC.

I was speaking only from a technical perspective, and from a technical perspective, they can.

I'm not familiar with U.S. laws on this particular subject, but if they are as you say they are, then those laws at least aren't being enforced:

https://www.google.ch/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=22AeVq3gI4aH8Qfk_4CAAw&gws_rd=ssl#q=verizon+refuse+activate

 

[theefman]

Actually, it sorta is Microsoft's fault. They admitted to it. They're "choosing the carriers that want to work WITH them". Verizon has a long history of not working with Microsoft going way back to the early days of Windows Mobile (WinCE version).

And they made this choice based on how certain carriers have treated WP in the past, and due to Verizon's shoddy treatment of the platform they have rightfully been shut out. Case closed.

 

[djarchow]

PS Dear Satya Nadella = FIX THIS and give us MILLIONS of "Verizon USERS" the 950XL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just to add some perspective, there are not millions of Windows Phone users on Verizon. WP has about 5.7 million users in the US (April ComScore numbers). Verizon has about 12 percent of those users which means about 700,000 users. Also since in the US about 43% of phone sales are high end phones, you really are talking about 300k potential customers. Given how poorly high end Windows phones have historically done on Verizon the number is probably quite a bit smaller than that.

I really want one of these phones myself but it looks like I will have to hang onto my Icon for a while yet.

 

[jcar302]

I'd be curious as to how many people that use Verizon are only under the illusion that Verizon is better than AT&T based on past signal strength, not present.
I hear it all the time by me "you gotta have Verizon it's better". Totally false in my area, even Tmobile has stepped up quite a bit. I have ATT and I can't even remember the last time I dropped a call that wasn't in a basement (I travel around the state for work).

I'm sure there are plenty of people that really can't goto ATT because of coverage, but i'll bet there are also quite a few that could go and are either uneducated about what works for them, just don't like change or it's just too much financially on a family plan to justify the hassle.

I don't have any loyalty to ATT or Verizon for their service, but I do like that ATT does get the good phones and that I can just pull the sim at any time and insert it in another phone.

If there is a 30 day trial, what would be the harm of starting a new account with a new number temporarily and see how it works for a month? You can always just shut it off and return the phone.

 

[KCandSunshine13]

I get my phone through my job. It is on the Verizon network; one of those old unlimited plans. I use a Lumia 928. My wife has an iPhone on AT&T. She has difficulty getting signal at her desk while I do not (we work for the same company). In addition, we have a 2nd home on the coast of NC. I get more bars on my 928 than she gets on her iPhone while there. As they say in the real estate biz: "Location. Location. Location."

 

[mdefran65]

I'm most definitely going to ATT. I've been a Verizon customer for 16 years and I'm jumping if they do not carry the 950XL.

 

[garak0410]

I really want one of these phones myself but it looks like I will have to hang onto my Icon for a while yet.

Agreed...holding on to mine too and I have a new. spare in a box too just in case. The phone is still quite good, camera still near the top of phone cameras...if we can get W10 to not drain the battery down so fast, I'd be happier with the ICON for a longer term.