Long Time Verizon Windows Phone Users Cheated By Microsoft.

[Adam Frix]

Shouldn't you be mad at Verizon, since they were actively complicit in this decision? Unlike T-Mobile, for example, VZW decided they wanted to control updates. When MS said no, what did VZW do?

That's right--they screwed YOU.

How's this for a course of action: tell VZW to pound sand and change providers to someone who doesn't make such anti-consumer choices, choices against YOUR will?

 

[Adam Frix]

Thanks for the feedback. All very fair remarks. I realize I take it all a little personal but that's just the way I am.

Are you posting similar "take it personal" opinions over on various Verizon Wireless web boards as well?

'Cuz they're not without fault here, not at all.

They will continue to make choices FOR you that are in THEIR best interests, regardless of what you want. If you stay with VZW, you are in for more of the same.

On the other hand, if you move carriers then you are free from that baloney.

It looks like you have some choices available to you:

1) stay with VZW, take their crap now and forever, and move to Android or iPhone--and keep looking over your shoulder for the next VZW decision that doesn't suit your needs

2) don't take VZW's crap and leave them--set yourself up for longer term control of your own destiny and stay with Windows Mobile

3) don't do anything, and stay where you are today

 

[vovakyan]

The way I see it it's more Verizon fault. Verizon never really carried to support windows. Delayed launches and updates, putting window phones and tablets in the back corner, stop selling them few months after release, just to put another android in its spot that's basically the same as the rest of there phones, trying there hardest to get people to not buy a windows phone. So I can understand why MS didn't put versions networking band in the phones, but I also think Microsoft should of did it anyway and told Verizon off. If they had CDMA networking in them, we would most likely have a whole other problem getting them activated.

This is not true, as we saw with the Google Nexus 6. It was not approved by Verizon, but it worked on the network. People would just take their SIMs and put it in the new phone. This is also the case with the 5X/6P. Not Verizon approved, not Verizon sold but will work.

 

[psiu_glen]

Mmmm

Verizon pushing Denim out first in the US.

How is the AT&T 830 doing?
How about the AT&T 1520 with Qi pulled and storage halved?
How about AT&T going after legacy unlimited data customers making the sin of using an non-approved OS on their network...W10M preview.

T-Mo 810 owners, feel free to chime in about the loooove.

From MS own words in this case, all the carriers expressed interest. MS went with AT&T only.

They have a niche product that barely anyone knows about, cares about, or wants. Best way to get it out there is definitely limiting it's availability.

As for "Verizon testing" - take the universal radios built into the SOC's, don't gimp them, and sell truly unlocked. If current Verizon customers want them then, they can have them. No Verizon approval needed. Could even help when VZW sees more of them showing on the network purely through interested users/corps.

 

[willied]

What I don't get is why they couldn't have included the bands to make it work with Verizon. I mean, they don't need permission from Verizon to include those bands, do they?

 

[gordonfink]

How do iPhone and Galaxy users on Verizon get their OS updates? Do they come from manufacturer, or Verizon?

 

[vovakyan]

Technically, there is no reason these devices can't work on Verizon. Other devices with the same internals do. These have just been prevented from doing so.

That being said, I doubt we'll ever get an honest explanation as to why. Maybe ATT wanted the devices for themselves in return for other favors (advertising, agreeing to special displays in stores, higher subsidies, etc). Maybe MS demanded the ability to update their devices directly which Verizon just refused (while also clarifying that MS updatable devices would not be activated on Verizon's network, even if they are compatible). We'll probably never know.

What we can be 100% sure of is that this has nothing to do with MS wanting to "teach Verizon a lesson". MS will not willingly limit the channels through which they can sell their devices without reason. No company is that stupid, not to mention that such a move would hurt MS more than Verizon.

We need to get everyone to understand the facts you stated. One thing I was under the impression was if you buy Unlocked from Manufacturer, then they were responsible for support. They could push updates as they wanted. Consumers would have to understand that if they had an issue they would have to go to MSFT and not Verizon. Again in this case it seems that somehow MSFT screwed the pooch.
This is what Google did with the Nexus. the best example is the Nexus 6. Verizon said it was not supported, but it worked on the network with the SIM. Also, Google pushed the updates they wanted directly to the phone.
MSFT has been bypassing carriers in terms of updates with Preview for Developers, and now Windows Insider. Something doesn't add up, it seems that MSFT could have made this work, but chose not to.

 

[vovakyan]

Mmmm

Verizon pushing Denim out first in the US.

Why do people forget this fact?

 

[Krystianpants]

http://i.imgur.com/slKZfUr.png

See that. 930 on the list. Icon not on the list. Exact same hardware. Differentiator is Verizon logo and BS.

MS should offer the option for icon users to get an app for the update. It will then flash the unit to no longer rely on Verizon servers and a factory reset would simply put it back to windows 10 clean version that they flash. But Verizon could fire back and disable these phones. Either way, Ms should take Verizon to court for anti-trust practices. All Carriers should be brought to court for allowing android units in the field to stay on older versions that are obviously a security risk. Carriers have to stop this nonsense with controlling updates. That is not their job. Their job is to provide a service that any phone can use.

 

[Krystianpants]

We need to get everyone to understand the facts you stated. One thing I was under the impression was if you buy Unlocked from Manufacturer, then they were responsible for support. They could push updates as they wanted. Consumers would have to understand that if they had an issue they would have to go to MSFT and not Verizon. Again in this case it seems that somehow MSFT screwed the pooch.
This is what Google did with the Nexus. the best example is the Nexus 6. Verizon said it was not supported, but it worked on the network with the SIM. Also, Google pushed the updates they wanted directly to the phone.
MSFT has been bypassing carriers in terms of updates with Preview for Developers, and now Windows Insider. Something doesn't add up, it seems that MSFT could have made this work, but chose not to.

It's definitely supported by the antennas. The only thing keeping them from using the CDMA2000 bands is firmware/software. My guess is that MS could do it but verizon could fire back in some way. AT&T is already attacking windows 10 insider customers on older unlimited plans and claiming that they are using tethering even though they are not. They say they are running "unsupported software which could be buggy and doing it even if they aren't aware". This is just a scheme targeting only the unlimited customers who they want to switch to newer plans. They want to get rid of these plans and are using this as leverage. They haven't even been able to provide proof, but they don't care. This is how these carriers work. It's disgusting.

 

[Sedp23]

These aren't going to be the only high end phones for windows 10 mobile. Verizon just got a LG phone so maybe HTC or LG or another manufacturer may make a high end phone for CDMA users. If u want these phones simply switch from the outdated CDMA carrier. There's always been and will always be more phones available for gsm carriers. That's one of the reasons I left Verizon they are over priced and limited on phones

 

[Acejax805]

What you fail to realize is you are being cheated by Verizon. It's time to face your big red dog is just that, a dog. Raising prices on unlimited grandfathered plans. Real great company you got there.

 

[DavidinCT]

It's not Microsoft that is cheating you, it's Verizon.... Verizon screwed over Microsoft, not pushing or showing customers the option for Windows Phone, then forcing Microsoft to delay upgrades/updates to phones. This has been said in blogs and even in videos, It was clearly stated "Verizon" would not have access to these phones.

Now, CDMA is locked to a key, I wish Microsoft just included the bands for Verizon, making it a true any carrier phone, then let the users pick them up and decide.

When it comes down to it, Microsoft should get over themselves and if Verizon wants the phone, let them have it. I know Microsoft does not have the time to work on companies like Verizon but, when your holding at a 3.5% of the marketplace and Verizon is the largest carrier in the US, they should not limit the options.

One would think, letting this innovative phone to every carrier possible would be the BEST attack for this. The 950/950XL could be the phone that gains Microsoft share in the marketplace. This is EXACTLY what Microsoft needs.

It does not take a business major to see this....

 

[Williaml99]

Greetings Everyone
Happy Sunday

I have learned a lot by starting this thread. Technically and emotionally.

Technically > About what a it takes to actually get a phone on the Verizon network plus some insider information that was enlightening. Some of us came to different conclusions about what that meant. That is OK.

Emotionally > A lot of passion (no surprise on Windows Central) about Verizon's fault vs. Microsoft's. Also some seemed to scold me personally about whining. OK.

Opinion and response.

Whining > OK guilty. I had my say and I am over it. We can close the thread if we can't get past that.

Fault > 15 year Verizon customer on Windows phone since the Thera Audiovox Thera Pocket PC Phone Information Center - Verizon Wireless & Sprint PCS

Well documented Verizon's treatment of windows phone, I was there.

What I will do as far as my feeling about Verizon. I will go to their online windows phone area and post that I would like these phones. My experience is they are pretty fair about leaving highly critical posts up for all to see as long as you keep it clean. I will call because I have to change some account stuff anyway. I will express my interest in the new phones. I will also say I am very interested in AT&T because they support the new Windows phone. The company probably knows better than I that Verizon blows AT&T away in my area. I personally am going to investigate this further because AT&T may have improved in my area although I highly doubt it.

What I will do as far as feelings about Microsoft. I am not certain about this. I have tried a critical post on the windows store about my Surface Pro 3 and it was not accepted. I will have to think about this.

I really don't care who is the most at fault at this point. I was pissed at first but I'm over it. As far as Verizon is concerned I am just used to that Windows Phone situation like the Sun coming up in the East. With Microsoft I was already aware that Verizon would not sell these devices or at least that was my understandings from what i had read but I was totally surprised they would disable those bands and protocols in firmware. I am not sitting around crying about this or complaining any more on this forum. I am just disappointed.

Thanks again for the thoughtful replies.

Bill

 

[Ralf Southard]

"I would have been angry in your position too but no one is forcing you to stay on windows. There are many androids to choose from . You can come back to windows when its more mature."

Damn, that was harsh and a bit condescending. Suggesting a happy windows phone user move to android is not an answer to the problem. What if Williaml99, just as I, spent a good amount of money on apps from the windows store that are not available on android? Are we supposed to start over from scratch?

 

[JaySeeDoubleYou]

Greetings Everyone
Happy Sunday

I have learned a lot by starting this thread. Technically and emotionally.

Technically > About what a it takes to actually get a phone on the Verizon network plus some insider information that was enlightening. Some of us came to different conclusions about what that meant. That is OK.

Emotionally > A lot of passion (no surprise on Windows Central) about Verizon's fault vs. Microsoft's. Also some seemed to scold me personally about whining. OK.

Opinion and response.

Whining > OK guilty. I had my say and I am over it. We can close the thread if we can't get past that.

Fault > 15 year Verizon customer on Windows phone since the Thera

Well documented Verizon's treatment of windows phone, I was there.

What I will do as far as my feeling about Verizon. I will go to their online windows phone area and post that I would like these phones. My experience is they are pretty fair about leaving highly critical posts up for all to see as long as you keep it clean. I will call because I have to change some account stuff anyway. I will express my interest in the new phones. I will also say I am very interested in AT&T because they support the new Windows phone. The company probably knows better than I that Verizon blows AT&T away in my area. I personally am going to investigate this further because AT&T may have improved in my area although I highly doubt it.

What I will do as far as feelings about Microsoft. I am not certain about this. I have tried a critical post on the windows store about my Surface Pro 3 and it was not accepted. I will have to think about this.

I really don't care who is the most at fault at this point. I was pissed at first but I'm over it. As far as Verizon is concerned I am just used to that Windows Phone situation like the Sun coming up in the East. With Microsoft I was already aware that Verizon would not sell these devices or at least that was my understandings from what i had read but I was totally surprised they would disable those bands and protocols in firmware. I am not sitting around crying about this or complaining any more on this forum. I am just disappointed.

Thanks again for the thoughtful replies.

Bill

So, Bill. You say you're from southern Iowa, 20k-ish population, and in a location where you make frequent trips to Iowa City, the Quads, and St Louis....I'm guessing you're from Ottumwa. My back-up guess is Burlington. Super-proud Des Moines'r here, so I'm only an hour or two away. I've been to Ottumwa a handful of times, but I don't think I've ever been to Burlington. I was just in Fairfield for the "Twin Galaxies" thing which would've had me skirting right outside Ottumwa.

Anyway, I can related with your pain. I had been soooooo excited for the 950XL, and was very impressed by what I saw in the press event, and I'm also a Verizon user who is barred from having it. Only, for me, rather than being a long-time Windows Phone supporter, my pedigree is as an iPhone user secondarily (and currently), and historically, an Android user primarily. However, I'm trying to go multi-platform now, with two or three phones that I switch between at [TBD] intervals, and REALLY wanted to include Windows in all that!

I have been a part of the Windows Insider program since day one, more or less. With my main computer being a Mac, the insider thing started out as just a curiosity and a novelty for me, but over the course of the program, I had become totally sold on the vision, the power and beauty of 10, the universal Windows apps, "one Windows" universal OS core, Continuum, and all the rest. Not that I was prepared to go "Windows-only" nessecarily, but of the three, Windows was definitely the one I was the most passionate and enthusiastic about.

Apple, on the other hand, was my lowest priority (and the most expensive). I could get one of these three now on monthly installments, and buy the other two outright at tax time. So I opted to start off with the iPhone6+. I was also okay being on last year's iPhone model so that I could be free for the latest and greatest form Google and Microsoft.

So, you can imagine how I felt when I found out guys like you and I were getting shut out. You felt it yourself! Like you, I was initially really fired up over it and took to the forums to voice my intense frustrations! I was pretty whiney too! I was even talking about walking away from Microsoft altogether once I found out that it was MS deciding not to go with VZW, not the other way around.

But now that I've had a few days to simmer down, listen to other input, and think about things more clearly, I'm not gonna give up on MS. VZW is likely every bit as much at fault, and possibly even more so. Yeah, I'm out for this round, as even here in the Des Moines metro, which is about 30 times more populous than where you are, Verizon is so night and day better with coverage than the others (especially inside my office building in West Des Moines) that I can't justify leaving them for this phone ESPECIALLY when according to plans, it'd be just one of three for me.

Add to that the fact that my wife has been wanting to get back on VZW ever since we left them for Sprint that she would NEVER agree to leave it again just so I can dazzle my friends with Continuum. So yeah, I'm circumstantially bound to Verizon.

Instead, I'll just keep my fingers to the pulse on the matter, and when something more opportune arises, I'll jump on then. If MS and VZW can play nice and make that soon, I'll join soon. If not, then it'll have to be later. Meanwhile, instead of getting the Nexus and the Lumia at tax time, I can get the Nexus and the Pixel C, and double down on Android. I already have an iPad and a Mac, and I'll be getting a JiDe Remix mini Android desktop this month sometime, so with the tax time goodies, I'll be more or less fully immersed in both ecosystems and can start really pitting them off against each other - which is really what I want!

Shoot me a message if you're ever gonna be here in the city, Bill, and maybe we can catch a coffee or something (you wouldn't believe the food options downtown these days) and chat tech some more!

Cheers!

-John

 

[skt_diaz]

"I would have been angry in your position too but no one is forcing you to stay on windows. There are many androids to choose from . You can come back to windows when its more mature."

Damn, that was harsh and a bit condescending. Suggesting a happy windows phone user move to android is not an answer to the problem. What if Williaml99, just as I, spent a good amount of money on apps from the windows store that are not available on android? Are we supposed to start over from scratch?

Every platform has its own advantages and disadvantages. You have to decide for yourself whats best for you. I have been a long time android user. Lumia 640 is my first wp. had spent a lot of money on playstore too( clash of clashs ) still i switched to wp. I knew exaclty what i would be missing. If you dont like a service its better to move on instead of complaining all the the time

 

[noirsoft]

I saw the writing on the wall back when the Touch Pro came out, and dumped Verizon for AT&T (okay, it was the Fuze on AT&T) -- while I sympathize if you live in an area where AT&T doesn't get good coverage, if you can, speak with your wallet and move to the carrier that supports the devices you want. IMO, it's easier to switch carriers than to switch phone ecosystems. Heck, I switched banks (from BofA to Wells Fargo) when BofA dumped their Windows apps.

 

[7a2eer]

I think that everyone should at the very least assign equal blame to Microsoft. The delayed updates are after all their fault.

Try to recall the delayed denim update that affected L925 users on T-Mobile. Microsoft camp blaming T-Mobile, T-Mobile blaming Microsoft. Well the truth was Microsoft did not even get the updates certified until a few days after T-Mobile pushed the OTA update, signifying that it was indeed Microsoft's fault.

I am not saying the carriers are innocent. There are obvious cases such as the original Xperia Z where the firmware has been certified yet there is 0 response from T-Mobile. What I am trying to say is that Microsoft needs to put more effort into getting carrier specific features and certifications passed on time. If Microsoft was prompt in sending updates, and did not invoice carriers for phones that did not sell well then we'd have more Windows Phones running the latest software.

 

[JaySeeDoubleYou]

Every platform has its own advantages and disadvantages. You have to decide for yourself whats best for you. I have been a long time android user. Lumia 640 is my first wp. had spent a lot of money on playstore too( clash of clashs ) still i switched to wp. I knew exaclty what i would be missing. If you dont like a service its better to move on instead of complaining all the the time

That's fair! Actually, speaking for myself, it's those unique advantages of each platform that is compelling me to work towards being "multi-platform" and multi-device. I want the advantages of all of them! See my reply to Bill a few posts ago for more details.

While I've had a chance to calm down quite a bit since it was revealed that we Verizon folks would be left out of the 950/950XL action for the indeterminate future, I'm still really disappointed that I'm not going to be able to be a part of what is probably the coolest phone I have ever seen!

A great many people have stated the obvious as if it were profound that I "could always switch carriers". While that may be technically true, it's not that simple. If I can use a few analogies to illustrate my point, they make the suggestion as if it's like "I didn't like this tube of toothpaste, so I threw it out and bought another one", when the reality of the situation is more like "My landlord didn't let me build a bar in the basement so I moved out", or, "they built a grocery store, rather than the movie theatre I wanted, so I moved to a different city."

There are just all kinds of entanglements involved with switching carriers, some are contractual, and universal to everyone patronizing the given company. But most are circumstantial and vary from individual to individual. Most people find themselves in the "'can', but really can't" kinda spot I'm in. I laid out my particulars in my afore mentioned reply to Bill if you're interested.

Cheers!