Tap to Pay

[runninsmooth]

I set up my credit card in the Wallet app and turned on Tap to Pay in my settings the other day, and I couldn't wait to go to the grocery store that supports Tap to Pay. Well, today was my first attempt at paying with my phone, but it didn't work. The scanner said there was an error reading the card, please insert the card. Am I missing a step to be able to use my phone as payment?

USA, ATT Network, Lumia 640 XL Dual Sim (RM-1096).

 

[Derausgewanderte]

I set up my credit card in the Wallet app and turned on Tap to Pay in my settings the other day, and I couldn't wait to go to the grocery store that supports Tap to Pay. Well, today was my first attempt at paying with my phone, but it didn't work. The scanner said there was an error reading the card, please insert the card. Am I missing a step to be able to use my phone as payment?

USA, ATT Network, Lumia 640 XL Dual Sim (RM-1096).

From reading the below it sounds like you need a special SIM through ATT to do that. Also, from what I see the scanner needs NFC as well?

this is from MS' FAQ:
Credit or debit cards – Purchase apps and games in the Windows Phone Store, or simply keep track of your card account info. And if your service provider and phone support it, you can even set up credit or debit cards to make NFC purchases in stores. (This requires a special, secure SIM card.)

and more here:

• ▼What is Tap to pay, and how do I use it?
  Tap to pay is a feature for Windows Phone that allows you to set up a credit or debit card, then tap your phone to an NFC (near field communication) reader to make wireless transactions. Not all phones support NFC, and even fewer support making NFC transactions. Here's what you'll need to use this feature:
  • A phone with a built-in NFC chip – Many Windows Phones have one. To find out if your phone does, go to the App list and tap Settings
    
    . If you see NFC in the Settings list, then your phone has a chip inside it.
  • A mobile operator that supports NFC transactions – At the moment, only a small number of mobile operators offer phones that support this feature. However, we're working hard to get additional mobile operators on board, and we expect the number of Windows Phones that support NFC transactions to grow.
  • A payment SIM card in your phone – This is a special, secure SIM card that you can only get from your mobile operator. If your phone supports multiple SIM cards, the payment SIM must be in SIM slot 1.

 

[runninsmooth]

Thanks for the find. I am currently chatting with AT&T to see if I have a secure SIM.

 

[runninsmooth]

AT&T said they do not support payment SIMs at this time. Here's to hoping Windows 10 fixes this issue.

 

[jhoff80]

This information is all wrong. Pretty much every SIM that AT&T gives out these days is a secure / payment SIM, but the only company/service that used secure SIMs doesn't exist any more.

The real answer though is that Microsoft doesn't support NFC payments at this time.

Yes, there was one carrier in France that supported NFC payments with WP 8.0, and then in WP8.1 Softcard had an app for a month or two that let you use your phone for payments in the US... but Softcard is completely defunct now, and Microsoft still has no solution.

It's rumored that sometime soon Microsoft will have a system ready to go for W10M (using Host Card Emulation, basically the same technology that Google Wallet uses), but nothing has been announced. And then, only a small handful of W10M devices actually have an NFC implementation that allows for HCE. (How to write an NFC Host Card Emulation (HCE) app with Windows 10 for Mobile - NFC Team Blog - Site Home - MSDN Blogs)

The 640XL though is specifically called out as supporting HCE, so really it's just a matter of waiting for Microsoft to actually roll out their system.

 

[Byrese]

This information is all wrong. Pretty much every SIM that AT&T gives out these days is a secure / payment SIM, but the only company/service that used secure SIMs doesn't exist any more.

The real answer though is that Microsoft doesn't support NFC payments at this time.

Yes, there was one carrier in France that supported NFC payments with WP 8.0, and then Softcard had an app for a month or two that let you use your phone for payments in the US... but Softcard is completely defunct now, and Microsoft still has no solution.

It's rumored that sometime soon Microsoft will have a system ready to go for W10M (using Host Card Emulation, basically the same technology that Google Wallet uses), but nothing has been announced. And then, only a small handful of W10M devices actually have an NFC implementation that allows for HCE. (How to write an NFC Host Card Emulation (HCE) app with Windows 10 for Mobile - NFC Team Blog - Site Home - MSDN Blogs)

The 640XL though is specifically called out as supporting HCE, so really it's just a matter of waiting for Microsoft to actually roll out their system.

Do you think MS partnership with PayPal will help with this?

 

[runninsmooth]

jhoff80

I trust your information over what the AT&T rep told me...it amazes me that they do not understand their own products and services...

Byrese

I have the same question!

edit: also found it odd that I couldn't quote you two in my post since I don't have 10 posts on the forum yet...

 

[Arizona Willie]

My 640 XL appears to be all set for NFC.

It does have NFC enabled and turned on but no app to be conneced to.

Looks like all it needs is an app from some credit card company that know how to communicate with a Windows 10 phone and we should be in business.

This was one of the things that tempted me to abandon my old flip phone and finally update to a " smart " phone ... and then it didn't work because no companies are writing apps to do that for Windows.

Grrrrr.

 

[Arizona Willie]

I've got the Pay Pal app but when I got to NFC and the section where to tell it what card to use nothing happens. I can touch the button 100 times and nothing. No apps show up in the app list of supported cards either.

No default app shows up and no default payment card shows up.

 

[Derausgewanderte]

read jhoff80's post above to get your answer. nothing has changed. You'd see this on the front page of Windows Central if there was a way to pay with your phone.

 

[Mesbah]

Go to a Microsoft Store, pick up couple of $1000s items and at cashier tap to pay claiming you only can pay by Tap-To-Pay :smile:

 

[Derausgewanderte]

Go to a Microsoft Store, pick up couple of $1000s items and at cashier tap to pay claiming you only can pay by Tap-To-Pay :smile:

let's all do that. maybe we can move something

 

[Arizona Willie]

We should all message Microsoft and tell them we will NOT buy another Windows Phone until they give us Tap To Pay.

 

[Mesbah]

Tap-To-Pay can be very risky until first million people are robbed off their savings by crooks

 

[Guytronic]

We should all message Microsoft and tell them we will NOT buy another Windows Phone until they give us Tap To Pay.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/contactus?forceorigin=esmc&wa=wsignin1.0
Have at it...
...or:
You can always use the feedback feature on your phone to suggest something also.

 

[Arizona Willie]

It should be quite secure if using 256 bit encryption and done through a credit card too.

 

[Arizona Willie]

Just sent Feedback from my Lumia 640 XL

The discussion has been interesting because they have obviously left places in the programming to hook into NFC and places for Credit Card info etc. etc. Everything necessary for Tap to Pay seems to be there except for enabling it. I'm sure much more programming would have to be crammed in, but if Samsung can do it --- why can't Microsoft?

 

[jamie_j_m_uk]

The story is much more complicated that you'd think just from looking at it as an app. There are several moving parts in the payment process and the HCE app on the phone is just one end. The POS Terminal is configured to "talk to" different types of contactless cards / devices. MasterCard, Visa, Amex all have slightly different programs (kernels) on the POS terminal so the HCE app in the phone must have the correct emulation for the type of card. The messaging from the card to the terminal includes digitally signing, the keys must have been supplied by the bank issuing the card or the card scheme. The signatures can be checked at the terminal, acquirer, scheme and bank.

So to pay with hce you need to:
1) Write the app to the correct specification
2) Issue keys (get the bank / scheme to issue schemes)
3) Sign the messages
4) Communicate with the NFC terminal

Tap-to-pay gives you 4)

 

[mikepalma]

We should all message Microsoft and tell them we will NOT buy another Windows Phone until they give us Tap To Pay.

@gabeaul @Satyanadella @tmeyerson

 

[jamie_j_m_uk]

It is not something that Microsoft can just do. Apple used their market share to get every one lined up (Apple uses Secure Element and has a slightly different set of concerns). Google with HCE has only just managed to get enough of the involved parties together. Major issuing banks ask for several million pounds to develop their HCE app and the back-end provisioning system. If there isn't improved security (hence lower fraud) there is no incentive to use NFC , tokenisation, so the credit card number is not stored on the phone, costs money to use. Key management and issuing has to be developed and implemented.

Microsoft has implemented the NFC messaging between the phone and POS terminal but they can not build the "right" content into the messages.

I should declare an interest here. I work as a the Product Development Manager on a project to use HCE for cardless / direct from bank account payments in the UK. There is a lot less support for W10 than Android in this area.