1. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Long story short, my grandma got a VivoTab RT. She wants to be able to play Wheel Deal and Words With Friends on it. Neither app is in the Microsoft Store. Since Flash does not function properly on Windows RT, she cannot play these games through the browser, either.

    So, it's at a point where I'm going to have to tell her she's better-off just taking the tablet back and getting an Android tablet. That is, unless someone can convince me that Windows RT isn't the worst product that Microsoft has ever created. I mean, it's eating up about 16 GB of space. The Store is barren, really (there isn't even a passable slot machine app). The desktop experience is completely crippled, so that cannot even make up for the lack of Store apps.

    Is there ANY reason to stick with RT over an Android tablet? An Atom-based Windows 8 tablet would be nicer than RT, but even then, the workaround to (potentially) get the games working through the browser is a pain for someone like my grandma to have to tolerate.

    I tried my hardest to convince her that a Windows RT tablet was the answer. It's clearly not. I feel a bit like an *** for having recommended it now, and I'm admittedly pissed at Microsoft for such a half-baked piece or garbage. It's as-expensive as the competition, but it lacks the functionality, and it isn't even more flexible. Can someone PLEASE tell me that the existence of Windows RT is meaningful? If it is, HOW is it meaningful? An Atom tablet will have actual software support, and it will have comparable battery life at a comparable price point. I just can't see where Windows RT fits.

    Sorry for the rant, this experience has just really pissed me off.
    03-09-2013 10:44 PM
  2. jaimeastin's Avatar
    If it doesn't work for her, take it back... It is clear she needs something less productive and more for consuming...

    The surface rt and pro are more productive devices. I love windows rt and pro and do not have problems with either... Now, I am not just searching for and playing games all the time. My use is a mix of consuming and medium to high production of some sort... She can save some bucks with a cheap android tablet...

    This is usually the problem with people and windows in the first place... It is too powerful for people when they only need something really really simple.

    I am kinda of tired of these posts... If it does not work, just switch. No harm. I can't convince you how nice windows rt is... We see the benefits totally different. She could get windows pro, but that still would not be what you need for your grandma... She wants a couple of apps that are not available... Period.


    aaaahhhhhhhh..... Whatever...
    Last edited by jaimeastin; 03-10-2013 at 05:56 AM.
    03-09-2013 10:55 PM
  3. jaimeastin's Avatar
    As much as I love my surface rt over my previous iPad or my brothers android tablet, I know for a fact that most people would not appreciate it. Sounds like your recommendation was good, but the person it was recommended for was not right... You caused your own frustration, as nice as I can say that... Just apologize and tell her to return it.
    Last edited by jaimeastin; 03-10-2013 at 05:59 AM.
    jchapman01 likes this.
    03-09-2013 11:04 PM
  4. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    See, here's my issue: You say "it wasn't right for that person." You don't actually say what its advantages are. It's not so much Windows 8 as a whole, but RT specifically.

    What does an RT tablet offer over an Atom one? They get about the same battery life, cost about the same, and have the same Microsoft Store experience. The difference between the two is that the Atom devices are capable of using legacy software. I get that RT doesn't work for my grandma. What I don't get is who it DOES work for, when compared to Windows 8 on an Atom device. The software has 0 advantages, because it just runs on a stripped-down version of Windows 8--it adds no features.

    To say that Pro wouldn't fix the issue is plain wrong, because Windows 8 will run Flash properly, and it would play those games without issue. The problem is 100% on RT, not Windows as a whole. I have Windows 8 on this PC I am typing from, and I tested the games--they work on Windows 8, but not Windows RT. That's where I'm lost as to the value of RT. It doesn't offer any benefits beyond being a smaller file (though the comparably-priced Atom tablets have twice the storage to more than make up for that).

    I've been as defensive about many things with Windows. When I am, I back up what I like. All I got from these posts was "I like Windows RT." Nothing about what it offers to make it better than Android, let alone Windows 8 on an Atom device. I didn't say "tell me," I said "convince me." I know that this is the Internet, and people on here are rarely willing to, you know, have an actual debate and back up statements, but that's what I was looking for. I wasn't looking for "it works for me," I was looking for "it works for me BECAUSE."

    So, I'll try to rephrase/repeat the question: What does Windows RT offer over Windows 8 on an Atom tablet? I see nothing. I've heard that 3D gaming is a bit better on the ARM devices, but I've not seen any comparisons, nor do I even know of any Microsoft Store games that take advantage of that, if it's true.
    03-10-2013 01:32 AM
  5. jaimeastin's Avatar
    There are tons of reasons why the surface rt is good. It is light on power usage, has the core functionality of windows, has office preinstalled, has flash that is available to most sites and others can be added to the white list, has a decent app selection, has remote desktop for the times that access to a real computer is needed, has a real file manager compared to other tablets, has VPN and network drive mapping, has printer support out if the box for most network and USB printers, has USB/sd card support, powershell, command prompt, native SkyDrive support, etc...

    Point is... Why convince you how good the surface rt or pro is or why your grandmother really needs an android tablet with the games she wants??? She does not really want to use touch on a Browser flash game nor does she want to use a mouse...

    You having a bad experience is because you sourced and chose the wrong product with little research or consideration. Stop blaming windows rt...

    Someone else can help you
    .. I just don't see the point. I think windows rt runs circles around other tablet os(s)... I mostly use mine for work and productivity. My idea of benefits do not remotely sound like they will be a benefit to you...
    Last edited by jaimeastin; 03-10-2013 at 06:03 AM.
    jchapman01 likes this.
    03-10-2013 03:05 AM
  6. jaimeastin's Avatar
    I chose windows rt because it is less power hungry like most tablets or my iPad. I could just grab it and go... Put it away and not have to worry about telling it to sleep first or otherwise. From its core, it is windows. A full operating system... No other tablet is like this. I can browse a network natively, I can map a network drive if needed, I can VPN to my home or office network and use remote desktop, I can use remote desktop over https, I have a real office suit that others try to emulate, I can use my USB flash or hdd and access, copy, or transfer files which on the ipad a nogo, and a host of other things.

    I also have a lot of computers with various OSs installed... They all range in power and have their on specific tasks... I use my devices for work. My surface can stand alone where my other tablets always had to travel with a laptop.

    I chose the rt over the pro because if I need the pro capabilities, I would just use my ultrabook. I would most likely want a larger screen and such. I used to dream of having the pro or a pro like tablet. Thing is, the heat, the concern of the fan tuning while it is tucked away, the battery life, and the fact that I could not justify it over my ultrabook led me to the rt. What I found out is that the rt worked for me so well that it exceeded my expectations. When I do need pro capabilities, I just remote into one of my computers. used to think that i would want to install all of this legacy software on my tablet, when in reality I don't want to use it touch wise... Legacy software means I need a mouse and keyboard for the most part. Though I carry a touch keyboard and a wedge mouse, i use them on occasion when I need to set my mobile workstation up... If I know that much in advance, why not take my other computer?

    Ultimately, i just could not justify the surface pro over the rt. I think the rt is a perfect tablet and companion to a laptop. I think it is a shame that the rt gets such a bad rap... Until Intel can make a processor that is really mobile friendlily, i will hold off.

    There are things i miss with the rt... I wish I could install an 86x app or two, but i have not found one deal breaker...

    Bottom line is that rt was never meant to be compared to to the pro... It is to be compared to other tablet OSs... There it really prevails over them, except in the app market... Which is not a deal breaker for me.
    Last edited by jaimeastin; 03-10-2013 at 06:10 AM.
    jchapman01 likes this.
    03-10-2013 03:31 AM
  7. aaa6112's Avatar
    I chose windows rt because it is less power hungry like most tablets or my iPad. I could just grab it and go... Put it away and not have to worry about telling it to sleep first or otherwise. From its core, it is windows. A full operating system... No other tablet is like this. I can browse a network natively, I can map a network drive if needed, I can VPN to my home or office network and use remote desktop, I can use remote desktop over https, I have a real office suit that others try to emulate, I can use my USB flash or hdd and access, copy, or transfer files which on the ipad a nogo, and a host of other things.

    I also have a lot of computers with various OSs installed... They all range in power and have their on specific tasks... I use my devices for work. My surface can stand alone where my other tablets always had to travel with a laptop.

    I chose the rt over the pro because if I need the pro capabilities, I would just use my ultrabook. I would most likely want a larger screen and such. I used to dream of having the pro or a pro like tablet. Thing is, the heat, the concern of the fan tuning while it is tucked away, the battery life, and the fact that I could not justify it over my ultrabook let me to the rt. What I could is that the rt worked for me so well that it exceeded my expectations. When I do need pro capabilities, I just remote into one of my computers. U to think I would want to install all of this legacy software on my tablet, when in reality I don't want to use it touch wise... Legacy software means I need a mouse and keyboard for the most part. Though I carry a touch keyboard and a wedge mouse, i use them on occasion when I need to set my mobile workstation up... If I know that much in advance, why not take my other computer?

    Ultimately, i just could not justify the surface pro over the rt. I think the rt is a perfect tablet and companion to a laptop. I think it is a shame that the rt gets such a bad rap... Until Intel can make a processor that is really mobile friendlily, i will hold off.

    There are things i miss with the rt... I wish I could install an 86x app or two, but i have not found one deal breaker...

    Bottom line is that rt was never meant to be compared to to the pro... It is to be compared to other tablet OSs... There it really prevails over them, except in the app market..
    This ^ 1000.
    03-10-2013 03:35 AM
  8. ninjaap's Avatar
    Just return it.
    Dadstar0410 and despertador like this.
    03-10-2013 03:35 AM
  9. jaimeastin's Avatar
    The rt when compared to the pro is similar except of the app support... But, what other tablet can you install a real desktop application???

    So, if you are looking for an app store, look at android or IOS, but for a tablet that gets what a computer and tablet can and should be, then there is no better choice than windows. Your next decision has to be what will its use be... There you have to ask yourself if you want a tablet or a PC, in a sense. Tablet with the limited functionality of a tablet, especially compared to other tablets or a full pc that can so everything with respect to power.

    Hope I did better this round... ,;)
    despertador likes this.
    03-10-2013 03:36 AM
  10. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    There are tons of reasons why the surface rt is good. It is light on power usage, has the core functionality of windows, has office preinstalled, has flash that is available to most sites and others can be added to the white list, has a decent app selection, has remote desktop for the times that access to a real computer is needed, has a real file manager compared to other tablets, has VPN and network drive mapping, has printer support out if the box for most network and USB printers, has USB/sd card support, powershell, command prompt, native SkyDrive support, etc...

    Point is... Why convince you how good the surface rt or pro is or why your grandmother really needs an android tablet with the games she wants??? She does not really want to use touch on a Browser flash game nor does she want to use a mouse...

    You having a bad experience is because you sourced and chose the wrong product with little research or consideration. Stop blaming windows rt...

    Someone else can help you
    .. I just don't see the point. I think windows rt runs circles around other tablet os(s)... I mostly use mine for work and productivity. My idea of benefits do not remotely sound like they will be a benefit to you...
    You completely missed what I said, though. I keep asking why RT has a purpose against an Atom-based Windows 8 tablet. I did not ask how it is better than Android or iOS (my grandma ended up getting an iPad, by the way). I asked why Windows RT is worth a damn when Windows 8 is available on Atom-based tablets.

    All of those things you talked up? Those are on the Atom-based tablets as well. They run full, 32-bit Windows 8 though, so you get the ENTIRE Windows RT experience, plus the proper desktop experience. Windows RT will only run SOME Flash content, and a lot takes whitelisting. Full Windows 8 (which is on those Atom tablets) runs all Flash content, no whitelisting needed (unless the 32-bit version is somehow different from the 64-bit, which I have).

    The Surface RT is rated around, what, 8-10 hours? That is EXACTLY what you get with the Atom tablets. The Atom tablets have the core functionality AND the desktop experience. It has the desktop and the Modern UI. It has a file manager. I imagine it has VPN, since it's RT but more. It has all of those things you tout about the Surface RT and 100 times more.

    Again, I'm asking where Windows RT fits in when Atom-powered Windows 8 tablets have comparable battery life, plus all of the software support of Windows RT and the full Windows 8 experience. When the Surface RT is a 32GB device for $500 and the ATIV Smart (I think it's the one I am thinking of) sells for the same price WITH cellular Internet at AT&T, I ask what the benefit of the RT operating system is. That's what I want convincing on--where RT fits in when full Windows 8 is available at the same price, with the same battery life, and with the full software compatibility.
    03-10-2013 03:21 PM
  11. HeyCori's Avatar
    Doesn't sound like you want to be convinced. Thread closed.
    03-10-2013 03:57 PM

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