03-22-2015 03:33 AM
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  1. Chris_Kez's Avatar
    My point or fear is once ms joins WP and RT you will have a situation like android where the only thing different between the 2 is the ability to make phone calls and text.
    I think "RT" as a name will die, but the idea of a touch-first OS that puts a premium on security and ease of use will live on. My hope is that you have a situation more like iPhone/iPad, where you can use lots of the phone apps on the tablet without too many issues but there are also plenty of high-quality tablet-specific apps. Having a 10" or even 8" screen just makes for a qualitatively different experience. Someone earlier referenced Office vs. Office Mobile, and that is a great example. Using Office Mobile on a phone isn't the same. Even if you had a new, feature-rich touch-optimized Office for WP it wouldn't be the same as using a larger tablet. The extra real estate does make a difference- and after having a Dell Venue 8 Pro for a few weeks I'm finding that is true in most circumstances. The smaller phone screen either shrinks everything down or limits you to a small viewable slice.

    I think iOS and Android, and now to some extent Windows RT have shown that you can do a lot with an 8"-10" device; things you can't do or would find more difficult/less enjoyable on a small screen.
    03-26-2014 04:24 PM
  2. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    I think "RT" as a name will die, but the idea of a touch-first OS that puts a premium on security and ease of use will live on. My hope is that you have a situation more like iPhone/iPad, where you can use lots of the phone apps on the tablet without too many issues but there are also plenty of high-quality tablet-specific apps. Having a 10" or even 8" screen just makes for a qualitatively different experience. Someone earlier referenced Office vs. Office Mobile, and that is a great example. Using Office Mobile on a phone isn't the same. Even if you had a new, feature-rich touch-optimized Office for WP it wouldn't be the same as using a larger tablet. The extra real estate does make a difference- and after having a Dell Venue 8 Pro for a few weeks I'm finding that is true in most circumstances. The smaller phone screen either shrinks everything down or limits you to a small viewable slice.

    I think iOS and Android, and now to some extent Windows RT have shown that you can do a lot with an 8"-10" device; things you can't do or would find more difficult/less enjoyable on a small screen.
    In a previous thread I mentioned that such a convergence would severely limit the Surface.

    My hope is that we DON'T have a situation more like the iPhone/iPad. The iPad is nothing more than an iPhone with a larger display. It is just as limited as the iPhone. Compare that to the differences between the Surface RT/2 and Lumia Windows Phones. There is a world of difference between those two devices. I have an iPad 4. If all I wanted was a smartphone with a 10" screen, I would've stuck with the iPad. The Surface RT/2 offers far more than that.

    I still have my iPad 4 and it is still my primary tablet. If Microsoft thinks again that they can out-Apple Apple, then they will learn again that they are wrong.
    03-26-2014 06:01 PM
  3. Chris_Kez's Avatar
    I think we just have different assumptions about where a convergence would lead. I assume we'd end up with a more fully featured RT that includes all of the current strengths and more, but with some of the design and UI elements that make WP so enjoyable, as well as some level of app compatibility or easy porting of apps from WP.
    If they just wanted WP on a tablet, or planned to seriously deprecate RT and actually roll back its existing features, they could have just made a WP tablet instead of the Surface- or licensed it for use on 7"+ screens.

    My comment about iPhone/iPad was just to note that I hope we'll see a range of apps that target a larger screen device, not that we'll see an OS that runs identically on all devices.
    CyberAngel_777 likes this.
    03-26-2014 06:45 PM
  4. T Moore's Avatar
    It is no secret that the phone and WinRT store will soon be one after the Blue update. Phone apps will change to support more screen sizes.
    03-26-2014 06:58 PM
  5. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    It is no secret that the phone and WinRT store will soon be one after the Blue update. Phone apps will change to support more screen sizes.
    I thought that they were uniting the store as of Threshold?
    03-27-2014 12:27 PM
  6. Reflexx's Avatar
    I think a convergence will start with what is currently RT and add more robust mobile functionality. That same OS will run on ARM based tablets and phones. However the consumer might not really even notice. The UI will still be different on both devices.
    CyberAngel_777 likes this.
    03-27-2014 12:57 PM
  7. T Moore's Avatar
    I bought an app last week. This note popped up concerning future updates of the app.
    Attached Thumbnails wp_ss_20140326_0001.png  
    03-27-2014 01:16 PM
  8. a5cent's Avatar
    It is no secret that the phone and WinRT store will soon be one after the Blue update. Phone apps will change to support more screen sizes.
    While true, such statements confuse a lot of people who take that to mean that a single app will run on both RT and WP. That is not true.

    I bought an app last week. This note popped up concerning future updates of the app.
    The message provided by the app is just plain wrong, or at least most of it is. What is true is that large parts of the WinRT API will be available to developers on WP and Windows/RT, although it will be neither complete nor identical across platforms. Developers still must build separate apps for WP and Windows.

    Possibly, the developer misunderstood the "option" MS is providing to build WinRT and WP apps "at the same time". Maybe the developer just preferred a false but understandable explanation over one that is true but incomprehensible to non-developers. I don't know. Either way, it just means the developer will be holding back further updates for WP8.0, so as to focus their time on a WP8.1 version. That can certainly make sense, if not for the provided reasons.
    CyberAngel_777 likes this.
    03-27-2014 02:42 PM
  9. CyberAngel_777's Avatar
    I hope (as a Developer & a consumer) that the convergence that can already be seen
    (XAP/Silverlight -> RT model) will continue on the Windows 9 RT/Phone
    and that the update to 9 will unite them so that the UI selection will be automated.
    03-30-2014 08:31 PM
  10. anony_mouse's Avatar
    will[/B] get rid of the desktop.
    Why are you so keen to get rid of the desktop? It's can do a lot of stuff that metro can't.
    GizmoEV likes this.
    04-07-2014 08:08 AM
  11. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    Why are you so keen to get rid of the desktop? It's can do a lot of stuff that metro can't.
    I think it'd be better if RT eventually got to the point where the Modern side could do what we need it to, and the desktop wasn't the thing that could do "a lot of things metro can't".
    04-07-2014 10:22 AM
  12. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    I think it'd be better if RT eventually got to the point where the Modern side could do what we need it to, and the desktop wasn't the thing that could do "a lot of things metro can't".
    That's the thing. It is not simply a matter of "things that metro can't". As long as Windows RT can support extended displays then it should support the desktop. Having metro on a larger (>12") display is wasteful.

    Rather than think of the desktop as filling in the gaps that metro has, I think of it this way:

    Desktop = keyboard/mouse, Metro = touch

    The moment Microsoft removes the desktop from RT is the moment I ditch the Surface.
    GizmoEV likes this.
    04-07-2014 11:22 AM
  13. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    That's the thing. It is not simply a matter of "things that metro can't". As long as Windows RT can support extended displays then it should support the desktop. Having metro on a larger (>12") display is wasteful.

    Rather than think of the desktop as filling in the gaps that metro has, I think of it this way:

    Desktop = keyboard/mouse, Metro = touch

    The moment Microsoft removes the desktop from RT is the moment I ditch the Surface.
    I assumed Metro scaled well, regardless of screen size.
    04-07-2014 11:42 AM
  14. a5cent's Avatar
    I assumed Metro scaled well, regardless of screen size.
    Even before Metro was made available to the public, I remember a lot of write ups from Microsoft employees stating that both Metro AND the Desktop were here to stay. Metro is not and apparently was never intended to be a Desktop replacement. Metro's primary focus is touch supported media consumption. In contrast, the Desktop is about high density presentation and flexibility. One can't replace the other, simply because they are optimized for very different and conflicting usage scenarios.

    Windows has long grappled with the impossible task of trying to be all things to all people. IMHO this is one of the reasons Windows has gained a poor reputation. It's simply impossible to make an OS that can be appreciated by both an engineer, and the majority of technically illiterate consumers. Metro is MS' attempt to offer a separate UI specifically for the later group of computer users.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Metro is only for the technically ignorant. Metro is for everyone. The difference to years past is that MS no longer considers the Desktop to be for everyone. That should also provide MS the flexibility to offer Desktop features that it previously couldn't. I remember reading an article somewhere (don't know if legitimate and I don't have a link), where it was stated that supporting multiple desktops was one such scenario, where usability testing showed that it wasn't a viable solution for the average consumer, although computer professionals everywhere would love it. That's just one example. I can think of many more. I don't know if this is what MS is actually planning. Based on everything I've read, I expect it is.
    Last edited by a5cent; 04-07-2014 at 01:57 PM. Reason: slight clarifications
    04-07-2014 12:20 PM
  15. kalo88's Avatar
    The only benefit I see of a full W8 tablet vs RT, Silverlight, full flash (not a whitelist?) and the fact that quite a few apps/games still dont support ARM.
    04-16-2014 11:06 AM
  16. Squachy's Avatar
    RT is merging with WP8 because they handle the exact same thing, just one does it small (WP) and the other does it large (RT). They SHOULD have be the same OS from the beginning.
    Instead the existence of RT just came about because WP was kind of on its own, while MS wanted to take advantage of ARM tech for tablets and I guess they felt they should scale down Win8 x86 to do it as opposed to scale up WP. The scaling up of WP was slowly coming and I think that was the problem, WP progress has been SLOW SLOW SLOW. So now they're at the point that they're combining the two OS's together so in the end the ideal situation would be Win8 desktop (x86) and Win8 tablet/phone (ARM).
    RT isn't dying but at this point we don't know quite know If WP is becoming RT or if RT is becoming WP. I leaning towards the former thought with how Win8.1/WP8.1 is coming. along.
    04-23-2014 09:23 AM
  17. webkrawler's Avatar
    Mustard on corn...love that!
    03-22-2015 02:54 AM
  18. a5cent's Avatar
    ^ You just resurrected a thread that is over a year old. The questions it poses have since been clarified.


    Closed
    Last edited by a5cent; 03-22-2015 at 04:28 AM.
    03-22-2015 03:33 AM
43 12

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