04-24-2013 04:36 PM
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  1. MobileVortex's Avatar
    I don't see the PR disaster. Look at mobile devices.. huge, huge, huge gaming market. No used games. Steam... no used games.. Most modern PC games... no used games... It's the direction everything is going. Nobody is blazing a trail here.
    Very good point. Physical games are going away. I was always on the side of I want the disc and the case and the book. Now im like: i dont want to get up to switch disc, the box takes up space, what book? The always-on thing doesnt bother me either, I would prefer a way to play if offline since the internet does go out from time to time, but I'm annoyed when i dont have internet anyway.
    04-10-2013 04:44 PM
  2. tk-093's Avatar
    Very good point. Physical games are going away. I was always on the side of I want the disc and the case and the book. Now im like: i dont want to get up to switch disc, the box takes up space, what book? The always-on thing doesnt bother me either, I would prefer a way to play if offline since the internet does go out from time to time, but I'm annoyed when i dont have internet anyway.
    Now, just to play devil's advocate, PC games generally tend to drop in price quicker then XBox or console based games. I don't know what the reason is, but maybe it could be attributed to the lack of used games sales? I think game publishers that are against used game sales have spoke about that..... I would hope that means that we see similar things on the next gen of XBox. If not, then I might be kinda irked.... I'm still getting one anyway cause I'm a fanboy. :)
    04-10-2013 05:23 PM
  3. TonyDedrick's Avatar
    I preface this by saying I understand these are all rumors at this point and may not have any truth to them. But on the off chance there is some grain of truth to them, here are my thoughts.

    I call shenanigans about used games not being a big deal. Every time I go to a GameStop for sh*ts and giggles, there are plenty of people buying used for whatever reason. I also come from an area where gaming is more a luxury for some families and when a parent has some little money to spare for their children on gaming, its sure as heck will be used. So their is a market their. Otherwise, gaming developers and publishers wouldn't be going BSC devising tactics to combat it.

    Also, this will become a bigger issue if/when developers continue to offer experiences' that surely are not worth $60 (or even the rumored $70). Couple that with a recent article I read not to long ago where some study came to the conclusion that demos aren't good for the gaming industry. You can probably figure out why they would come to that conclusion.

    As for the always on the internet thing, its not a big deal for someone who is a heavy online gamer and actually has access to the internet. Hard to believe, but there consumers who don't have internet access for whatever reason. And god forbid you happen to be an area where for whatever reason you lose internet services from some natural disaster. You might have power, but no no cable or internet. My console would just be a useless, overpriced paper weight.
    04-11-2013 08:40 AM
  4. Robert Carpenter's Avatar
    Ummmm every company is out to make money first. the customer comes second.
    Very wrong. Every company is out to make money, but that doesn't make money the top priority. The customer is always top priority because without them there is no money to be made. Do you honestly believe there are companies that are successful out there who constantly upset their customers and manipulate them? No one runs a business like that.

    You act like the people who run companies are a different kind of human being.... They make the same choices any other person would make when making decisions.
    04-11-2013 11:43 AM
  5. martinmc78's Avatar
    Very wrong. Every company is out to make money, but that doesn't make money the top priority. The customer is always top priority because without them there is no money to be made. Do you honestly believe there are companies that are successful out there who constantly upset their customers and manipulate them? No one runs a business like that.

    You act like the people who run companies are a different kind of human being.... They make the same choices any other person would make when making decisions.
    Apart from maybe Activision and EA.
    Robert Carpenter likes this.
    04-11-2013 11:48 AM
  6. Robert Carpenter's Avatar
    Here's an interesting thought that hasn't been discussed yet:

    People buy used games for cheaper prices. If they block used games, they get more direct sales instead of losing them to Gamestop. Has anyone thought of how that might affect how a game's value decreases over time?

    For those of you against the blocking of used games: What if this resulted in games being half price a couple months after release?

    What if games are just cheaper all together on release day?

    These are all possibilities that need to be considered...
    04-11-2013 11:51 AM
  7. spyderzWPC's Avatar
    Sorry I just don't get the issue with the always online thing. My Pc at home is always on and always online so I can remote desktop my RT from wherever. If the xbox has to be always online its not going to be a deal breaker for me, would be good to get access to it somehow if its always there ready in cyberspace. As for the used game thing the first and last used game I purchased gave me the ring of death so seeing the back of them wouldn't matter. Just don't change the controller layout and I will be happy.
    Always online isn't a problem unless we forget the diablo release and the sim city release. People paid for games and couldn't play them. This is the issue with always online.
    04-11-2013 12:01 PM
  8. spyderzWPC's Avatar
    Here's an interesting thought that hasn't been discussed yet:

    People buy used games for cheaper prices. If they block used games, they get more direct sales instead of losing them to Gamestop. Has anyone thought of how that might affect how a game's value decreases over time?

    For those of you against the blocking of used games: What if this resulted in games being half price a couple months after release?

    What if games are just cheaper all together on release day?

    These are all possibilities that need to be considered...
    Rob I find these arguments coming from developers as excuses. If we blocked used games they wouldn't reduce the price. (another excuse would come up to keep the price high) look at blizzards pc store, how much is a new game through their service...the price hasn't gone down, and you cant buy them used.

    Currently the fight to block used games has been taken up by dlc. Look at the games coming out with dlc already on the disc but you have to pay to open it. EA's attack on used games to me seemed fair with the online code. If you got it used you had to pay another 10 to get online, online servers cost money to support os I have no issue with. The issue I do have was used game stores were not very upfront about that with most of the games. and I saw people buying a game used and not even knowing they had to pay more to play it.
    04-11-2013 12:05 PM
  9. martinmc78's Avatar
    Always online isn't a problem unless we forget the diablo release and the sim city release. People paid for games and couldn't play them. This is the issue with always online.
    No that was playing the games always online and saving games back to the servers of EA and Blizzard. The same thing happens with all the AAA titles we have on Xbox now - you can guarantee the latest COD, Battlefield or Halo game are unplayable online the first 2-3 days after release until the servers can catch up. The multiplayer portions of those games are already always online and have been for years so why start complaining now? Im referring to the rumour that to get the most from all the services the new xbox will give you it has to be permanently online.
    04-11-2013 12:16 PM
  10. Robert Carpenter's Avatar
    Rob I find these arguments coming from developers as excuses. If we blocked used games they wouldn't reduce the price. (another excuse would come up to keep the price high) look at blizzards pc store, how much is a new game through their service...the price hasn't gone down, and you cant buy them used.

    Currently the fight to block used games has been taken up by dlc. Look at the games coming out with dlc already on the disc but you have to pay to open it. EA's attack on used games to me seemed fair with the online code. If you got it used you had to pay another 10 to get online, online servers cost money to support os I have no issue with. The issue I do have was used game stores were not very upfront about that with most of the games. and I saw people buying a game used and not even knowing they had to pay more to play it.
    I see your point, but the situation has some twists when there is a company in charge of the others, like Microsoft being in charge overall. If this becomes a standard, all of the confusion with people requiring additional purchases to play the uses game will be gone. Microsoft can control prices. We can never understand their reasons for making the choice until we can see the big picture.

    All we can do is make assumptions based on the past history. Right now everything Microsoft is doing is new and different. They are trying to get away from the last and look at things in new ways. So really no matter what, we can't predict anything lol.

    Also, Blizzard does actually drop prices, but it doesn't make sense. If you played WoW from the beginning, you had to pay 40-50$ for the game and then 40-50$ for each expansion. Now you can buy the game and every single expansion for 60$ total. 200$ turned into 60$. That's a pretty big discount lol.
    04-11-2013 12:56 PM
  11. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Except what you pay for with the old World of Warcraft expansions is content that is no longer supported by the developers--that stuff's all obsolete. They are basically charging you money to get to a point to pay for the expansion to play the current content. I would argue that you're basically paying $40 for Mists of Pandaria, while paying another $30 or so for a bunch of stuff you won't want to mess with. I started that game right when Wrath of the Lich King released (well, a few weeks before it), and I never did ANY of the pre-Wrath raiding or dungeons, really. However, I still had to pay for the original game and the first expansion, meaning I basically had to buy 3 games to play the one expansion I was interested in, the current one.

    As for cheaper games on consoles, I call crap. Used games have existed for a decade, and prices have just gone up. The gaming industry thrived during the previous generation at $50 for a game. The Wii worked out (initially) with $50 games. They saw a chance at higher profits at $60, and they seized it (much like Microsoft with Xbox LIVE subscriptions). PC games don't offer a used solution, but we've watched several big-name titles hit the $60 mark there as well. It's a simple matter of economics of cost, not something where they HAVE to charge $60 to make up for a used game market older than the prices themselves.
    04-12-2013 02:56 AM
  12. tk-093's Avatar
    Always online isn't a problem unless we forget the diablo release and the sim city release. People paid for games and couldn't play them. This is the issue with always online.
    People are getting 'Always Online' confused with 'Online Required.' The only thing we know for sure is the new XBox will be always online. Which means it could pull updates or download demos if you want it to. Heck, the current XBox can be "always online' if you set it that way. The Wii was "always online" it would tell me when there was a new update to download.

    Always online is not a bad thing at all. Having to be online to play games, that is another thing. Untill they come out and say it, I'm doubting that's gonna happen.
    04-12-2013 04:59 PM
  13. tk-093's Avatar
    Rob I find these arguments coming from developers as excuses. If we blocked used games they wouldn't reduce the price. (another excuse would come up to keep the price high) look at blizzards pc store, how much is a new game through their service...the price hasn't gone down, and you cant buy them used.
    First off I just want to say I am enjoying this discussion.. Nobody is flipping out on anybody. :)

    Those could be excuses, no doubt about it. But that is the trend that I've noticed in the PC world currently. XBox games seem to stay at a higher price when the PC versions drop a lot faster. I do not have any proof that it is because of the lack of used games on PC, I'm just a gamer. It does give me a little hope, but I'm a glass half full guy, which about half the time leaves me disappointed. :)
    04-12-2013 05:05 PM
  14. enthuz's Avatar
    I laughed at this whole "Always Online" bit when it was first in the news. We all seem to forget that Sony first stated this with the PS3 due to its present online features. MS has stated it for the Xbox and 360 online features. Because we are starving for news on the next-gens, we are ripping apart every sentence released by "insiders". I can see why the rep was so put off by the responses. But who are we fooling? MS and Sony is loving all of this talk and speculations, because it keeps the hype and interests up for the release events and first shipments. Either way they will both be in my home and I will be loving life.
    04-12-2013 06:23 PM
  15. spaulagain's Avatar
    Here's an interesting thought that hasn't been discussed yet:

    People buy used games for cheaper prices. If they block used games, they get more direct sales instead of losing them to Gamestop. Has anyone thought of how that might affect how a game's value decreases over time?

    For those of you against the blocking of used games: What if this resulted in games being half price a couple months after release?

    What if games are just cheaper all together on release day?

    These are all possibilities that need to be considered...
    All the games I buy are used games except for Call of Duty. Unless those prices for new games drop below $25 bucks, I simply won't buy them. The used game is a huge issue. MS will be shooting them selves in the foot if they go that route.

    I can buy/sell used books, CDs, DVDs, Blu-Rays, AND software all day long. They are all equally copyrighted material. But I can't do that with a video game? That's BS.

    Hell, I can buy/sell a used XBox.

    I don't see how there is any truth to this used game thing. It kill an entire segment of their user base and royaly **** of even the most devoted gamer fans who can't sell the games they have bought.

    The upfront cost should cover the cost of development. That's how all of these things have been handled for years.
    04-12-2013 06:33 PM
  16. enthuz's Avatar
    Used game blocking would hurt me too. I support the used game market, unless I can find a new copy within $2-5$ of the cost of the used.
    04-12-2013 07:05 PM
  17. Robert Carpenter's Avatar
    We can squash this rumor now.

    "Durango itself will also always be online like any other device (correct with rumors), but it will not be a requirement to play local content and it will not prevent playing used games."

    Microsoft Xbox Roadmap (2013) -

    This is coming from the people who started the original rumor to begin with.
    Mystictrust likes this.
    04-15-2013 01:36 PM
  18. TonyDedrick's Avatar
    We can squash this rumor now.

    "Durango itself will also always be online like any other device (correct with rumors), but it will not be a requirement to play local content and it will not prevent playing used games."

    Microsoft Xbox Roadmap (2013) -

    This is coming from the people who started the original rumor to begin with.
    So essentially, don't get rid of your current 360 if there happens to be games you continue to want to play. Otherwise, you'll be shelling out another $150 for this Xbox Mini?
    04-15-2013 01:43 PM
  19. Robert Carpenter's Avatar
    So essentially, don't get rid of your current 360 if there happens to be games you continue to want to play. Otherwise, you'll be shelling out another $150 for this Xbox Mini?
    Not anything related to this thread at all..... but to answer your obvious question, yes.

    Why would you get rid of your current console if you were interested in playing old games in the first place?....
    04-15-2013 02:38 PM
  20. Mystictrust's Avatar
    "When used with Durango, it offers connectivity with it for backwards compatibility with both disc based and On Demand games, and its no more different than what Sony will be doing with Gaikai for playing PS3 games on PS4, only with Xbox it will be done locally and not through the cloud. "

    1) A local backwards compatibility solution? Oh hell yeah. Place the new Durango side-by-side with the Xbox Mini and you eliminate either needing a big 360 alongside a big Durango or swapping out your old and new console whenever you want to play an old game

    2) So... there will be no connectivity from the current Xbox 360 to Durango for backwards compatibility. That means backwards compatibility (using one primary device for both new and old) would actually COST $150 since you'd need a new Mini to connect.

    Again, both consoles can be placed side by side and be always be plugged into the TV... but that's not actual backwards compatibility. So, $150 for the convenience of playing both new and old games on ONE console (connected to a hopefully very small Mini) or $0 to keep both machines hooked up and used independently. Hmmm... I guess it'd depend how much I missed my old games or if I just didn't care to lug out the old machine if I start playing the new one a lot.

    I realize this is all leaked rumor/speculation/whatever, but I am responding in kind (i.e. My response as if the leak were true, or were to come true)
    04-15-2013 03:05 PM
  21. Robert Carpenter's Avatar
    "When used with Durango, it offers connectivity with it for backwards compatibility with both disc based and On Demand games, and it’s no more different than what Sony will be doing with Gaikai for playing PS3 games on PS4, only with Xbox it will be done locally and not through the cloud. "

    1) A local backwards compatibility solution? Oh hell yeah. Place the new Durango side-by-side with the Xbox Mini and you eliminate either needing a big 360 alongside a big Durango or swapping out your old and new console whenever you want to play an old game

    2) So... there will be no connectivity from the current Xbox 360 to Durango for backwards compatibility. That means backwards compatibility (using one primary device for both new and old) would actually COST $150 since you'd need a new Mini to connect.

    Again, both consoles can be placed side by side and be always be plugged into the TV... but that's not actual backwards compatibility. So, $150 for the convenience of playing both new and old games on ONE console (connected to a hopefully very small Mini) or $0 to keep both machines hooked up and used independently. Hmmm... I guess it'd depend how much I missed my old games or if I just didn't care to lug out the old machine if I start playing the new one a lot.

    I realize this is all leaked rumor/speculation/whatever, but I am responding in kind (i.e. My response as if the leak were true, or were to come true)
    The sad thing is that this is no different from when the Xbox 360 came out. The Xbox 360 couldn't play Xbox games unless you had the $99 hard drive. The difference is that the hard drive was included on the more expensive package.
    04-15-2013 03:16 PM
  22. Mystictrust's Avatar
    The sad thing is that this is no different from when the Xbox 360 came out. The Xbox 360 couldn't play Xbox games unless you had the $99 hard drive. The difference is that the hard drive was included on the more expensive package.
    I think it might be different, actually. Depends on their implementation. There was an original xbox game I loved so much that I bought it, intending to use for my xbox 360. It wasn't ever made compatible... since MS needed to code in backward compatibility support and provide it as an update. This was true of the major titles like Halo but not everything came across and eventually they stopped updating games. Their backward compatibility was completely and entirely software based, since both systems used entirely different architectures.

    This seems different. You're attaching a fully functional version of the Xbox 360, minus the disc drive. The Durango gives it a disc drive, and then it can tap into the old architecture of the 360 and use it to recognize the current game. Basically, it's a hardware-based backwards compatibility system, with the hardware being the actual system itself (in a much smaller package)
    04-15-2013 03:48 PM
  23. TonyDedrick's Avatar
    Not anything related to this thread at all..... but to answer your obvious question, yes.

    Why would you get rid of your current console if you were interested in playing old games in the first place?....
    Are you saying my question isn't relevant to this thread? Considering we are discussing the next Xbox and the article you linked to talks about the specs of the next console, I think its highly relevant.

    Further, there could be a number of reasons someone might not part with an old console. For me, its a matter of space, especially with a child on the way. I just purchased a Wii U. It can play my Wii games. So I have no need to keep it.
    Last edited by TonyDedrick; 04-20-2013 at 06:23 PM.
    04-15-2013 04:05 PM
  24. peachy001's Avatar
    In my opinion they wont block used games, unless they have some kick *** alternative solution. Gamestop's top guy (I think) has given the next box glowing reviews. This same company has already gone on record to state that they are opposed to a used game block. For them to be so enthusiastic about the next one there has to be something in it for them. I doubt they would have been that positive otherwise. MS could consider allowing companies to provide online rentals. It is one way to stop the used game market.

    As for always online, that may apply to some features, but would be suicide for it to be mandatory.
    04-20-2013 03:51 PM
  25. enthuz's Avatar
    In my opinion they wont block used games, unless they have some kick *** alternative solution. Gamestop's top guy (I think) has given the next box glowing reviews. This same company has already gone on record to state that they are opposed to a used game block. For them to be so enthusiastic about the next one there has to be something in it for them. I doubt they would have been that positive otherwise. MS could consider allowing companies to provide online rentals. It is one way to stop the used game market.

    As for always online, that may apply to some features, but would be suicide for it to be mandatory.
    Can you provide a link please?
    04-20-2013 05:39 PM
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