Do not ignore this feature: Wifi-Direct

[Robert Carpenter]

If you look at my thread in the Windows 8 forums, I was able to find some hidden files and features in a leaked build of Windows 8.1

Window 8.1 has native Wifi-Direct integration. The new Xbox One has Wifi-Direct integration. The new Xbox One Controller has Wifi-Direct integration.

I cannot express enough how important Wifi-Direct is going to be with the Microsoft ecosystem. The Playstation 4 is already outdated.

 

[Courtney S]

This is fantastic. I was sure that MS made a mistake once I heard the new controllers would not be using bluetooth. I am much happier know that they are using a new system that will allow exchange between these devices. I am particularly looking at how the controller will interact with tablets and phones. I was hoping for a proprietary controller to use with Xbox games on my Lumia. Glad to know this is still possible!

 

[unstoppablekem]

The PS4 is a joke already.

 

[Robert Carpenter]

The PS4 is a joke already.

100% agree. There isn't a single reasonable argument that can be made to say that the Playstation 4 is better in ANY way. Anything the Playstation 4 does, the Xbox One does better. Then add in all the things the Xbox One does that the Playstation 4 can't.

Anyone that buys a Playstation 4 for a reason other than the exclusives, does not know how to make a smart purchase.

 

[jhoff80]

100% agree. There isn't a single reasonable argument that can be made to say that the Playstation 4 is better in ANY way.

Except for, you know, the specs themselves. :wink:

(Yes, I realize Microsoft didn't announce their specs, but it's clearly because the PS4 is more powerful. Otherwise, they wouldn't be touting things like the improved transistor count. The two systems will be close, but it seems likely that the leaked specs for the One were accurate, and so it's probably using DDR3 RAM instead of the GDDR5 of the PS4, etc.)

 

[Robert Carpenter]

Except for, you know, the specs themselves. :wink:

(Yes, I realize Microsoft didn't announce their specs, but it's clearly because the PS4 is more powerful. Otherwise, they wouldn't be touting things like the improved transistor count. The two systems will be close, but it seems likely that the leaked specs for the One were accurate, and so it's probably using DDR3 RAM instead of the GDDR5 of the PS4, etc.)

jhoff80, stop following me. I come here to escape the verge and here you are....

Microsoft has to be using GDDR ram of some sort for graphics, there's no way around that. I think we have to wait for an officially statement before continuing this debate. But remember, it's all about how it's used.

It relates to the whole Android quad-core argument. An android phone with a quad-core processor is still less responsive than my dual-core Windows Phone. Theoretical advantages are irrelevant

 

[onysi]

does this mean wifi direct controller can be used for windows phone games?

 

[HeyCori]

Someone explain how WiFi direct works, please.

 

[Keith Wallace]

100% agree. There isn't a single reasonable argument that can be made to say that the Playstation 4 is better in ANY way. Anything the Playstation 4 does, the Xbox One does better. Then add in all the things the Xbox One does that the Playstation 4 can't.

Anyone that buys a Playstation 4 for a reason other than the exclusives, does not know how to make a smart purchase.

Untrue entirely. Though PSN has suffered from security issues over the past couple of years, the offering of both free online multiplayer and occasional free GAMES is a superior incentive to $60/year (or less, if you buy from some retailers) to access things you already pay for, like Netflix. THAT paywall is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've seen Microsoft do. Also, the pure power of the PS4 tops the Xbox One, same as the PS3 did with the Xbox 360 (the military was even buying them in bulk and stringing them together as supercomputers). Oh, and Sony's managing a LEVEL of backwards compatibility through GaiKai's online gaming service, something Microsoft is lacking completely, and they have a unified payment system of sorts between the PS3 and the Vita, so there are plenty of things the PS4 can and should have on the Xbox One. This, coming from someone who has never bought a Sony product at launch (got a PS2 WELL into its life cycle), and who isn't interested in the PS4.

 

[Keith Wallace]

Someone explain how WiFi direct works, please.

"Wi-Fi Direct device connections can happen anywhere, anytime - even when you don't have access to a Wi-Fi network. Your Wi-Fi Direct device will signal to other devices in the area that it can make a connection. You can view available devices and ask them to connect, or you might receive an invitation to connect to another Wi-Fi Direct device. When two or more Wi-Fi Direct-certified devices connect directly, they have formed a Wi-Fi Direct Group, using Wi-Fi Protected Setup™ and the latest Wi-Fi security. Now you can get started doing all the exciting things that Wi-Fi Direct enables!"

Wi-Fi Direct

From the way it sounds when I read it, there are two ways to kind-of explain it:

1. It's the functionality of Wi-Fi without the Internet. Instead of needing a wireless access point to connect the two devices, they handle themselves.
2. It's Bluetooth, with the range and speed of Wi-Fi. That means the easy connection, but faster and more flexible.

The intent here would be to allow something like a phone to link to a Wi-Fi Direct controller, for the purpose of these controllers, I'm hoping.

 

[spaulagain]

Untrue entirely. Though PSN has suffered from security issues over the past couple of years, the offering of both free online multiplayer and occasional free GAMES is a superior incentive to $60/year (or less, if you buy from some retailers) to access things you already pay for, like Netflix. THAT paywall is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've seen Microsoft do. Also, the pure power of the PS4 tops the Xbox One, same as the PS3 did with the Xbox 360 (the military was even buying them in bulk and stringing them together as supercomputers). Oh, and Sony's managing a LEVEL of backwards compatibility through GaiKai's online gaming service, something Microsoft is lacking completely, and they have a unified payment system of sorts between the PS3 and the Vita, so there are plenty of things the PS4 can and should have on the Xbox One. This, coming from someone who has never bought a Sony product at launch (got a PS2 WELL into its life cycle), and who isn't interested in the PS4.

I'm sorry, am I missing something, what exactly makes the PS4 a powerhouse over the X1?

From what I've read they're pretty damn close, and definitely closer in spec than the current generation systems are.

Pretty dam close here...
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/156273-xbox-720-vs-ps4-vs-pc-how-the-hardware-specs-compare


And you don't think MS will have some online gaming platform for older games? Hell, they already do.

PS4 might have a couple advantages but when you look at the big picture, PS4 just can't hold up in comparison. X1 is sooooo much more in so many ways.

At least Forza 5 will be out day one of release. Do you think Gran Turismo will take 5 years to develop again?

Sounds like it...
http://m.gamespot.com/news/sony-considering-gran-turismo-6-for-ps4-6408412

PS4 version of GT6 "may not be for some time. "

 

[Robert Carpenter]

"Wi-Fi Direct device connections can happen anywhere, anytime - even when you don't have access to a Wi-Fi network. Your Wi-Fi Direct device will signal to other devices in the area that it can make a connection. You can view available devices and ask them to connect, or you might receive an invitation to connect to another Wi-Fi Direct device. When two or more Wi-Fi Direct-certified devices connect directly, they have formed a Wi-Fi Direct Group, using Wi-Fi Protected Setup™ and the latest Wi-Fi security. Now you can get started doing all the exciting things that Wi-Fi Direct enables!"

Wi-Fi Direct

From the way it sounds when I read it, there are two ways to kind-of explain it:

1. It's the functionality of Wi-Fi without the Internet. Instead of needing a wireless access point to connect the two devices, they handle themselves.
2. It's Bluetooth, with the range and speed of Wi-Fi. That means the easy connection, but faster and more flexible.

The intent here would be to allow something like a phone to link to a Wi-Fi Direct controller, for the purpose of these controllers, I'm hoping.

Wifi-Direct can also be integrated with Bluetooth or NFC for some cool scenarios.

Examples:

-You establish a wifi-direct connection and a Bluetooth connection simultaneously. All data goes through Wifi-Direct, but the Bluetooth is used to limit the range of the connection. When the Bluetooth connection drops, so does the Wifi-Direct connection.

-Same range scenario for NFC. Lay your phone on the NFC pad to transfer 5 gigabyte files. NFC allows instant Wifi-Direct pairing, and the range is extremely limited.

Also, every Bluetooth problem you see is a result of how Bluetooth data transfer works. There are Bluetooth "profiles" and each profile allows you to do certain things. To stream video/audio over Bluetooth, you need to support a specific profile. Same goes for controlling devices and file transfers. That why different Bluetooth devices are capable of different function.

With Wifi-Direct, all those problems are gone.

 

[Keith Wallace]

I'm sorry, am I missing something, what exactly makes the PS4 a powerhouse over the X1?

From what I've read they're pretty damn close, and definitely closer in spec than the current generation systems are.

Pretty dam close here...
Xbox One vs. PS4 vs. PC: How the hardware specs compare | ExtremeTech


And you don't think MS will have some online gaming platform for older games? Hell, they already do.

PS4 might have a couple advantages but when you look at the big picture, PS4 just can't hold up in comparison. X1 is sooooo much more in so many ways.

At least Forza 5 will be out day one of release. Do you think Gran Turismo will take 5 years to develop again?

Sounds like it...
Sony considering Gran Turismo 6 for PS4 - GameSpot.com

PS4 version of GT6 "may not be for some time. "

I'll only reply to this once, as this is not the thread for the discussion.

The article you linked said that the Xbox has a GPU about on-par with a Radeon 7790, while the PlayStation's GPU is equivalent to a 7870. Those GPUs are not in the same class. Look here: AnandTech | AMD Radeon HD 7790 Review Feat. Sapphire: The First Desktop Sea Islands. The review doesn't include the 7870 itself, but it includes the 7850, which would be the 7870's little brother The 7790 never touches the 7850 in tests, so it most-certainly wouldn't touch the 7870, which is a bit better than the 7850 (that's how the naming scheme of AMD's cards works). The PS4 definitely has a better GPU in it.

Now, I'm just doing this quickly and moving on because, again, this is not the thread for this discussion. However, the PS4 has DDR5 memory in it, while the Xbox One is settling for DDR3. While I admittedly do not know their specific comparison, one random article made this statement: "There has been talk that 8GB of GDDR5 RAM is the same as 24GB DDR3 RAM. One of the factors that is key is how much of the RAM developers are able to freely use and if the PS4 will offer faster and better looking game, thanks to it having GDDR5." Basically, we KNOW that DDR5 is a meaningful step up in performance, but not how much it will matter. CNET had an article that also made mention, "The GDDR5 RAM used in the PlayStation 4 is the same type of RAM used by most PC video cards and is optimized for graphical throughput."

CNET also made a small comparison on the GPUs, saying, "Richard Leadbetter at Digital Foundry speculates that the PS4's GPU may have as much as 50 percent more raw graphical computational power than the one in the Xbox One. That, coupled with its faster graphics memory, may translate into prettier games on the PS4."

The PS4's known to have an overall lead in the hardware department the PS3 most certainly did. What my point was intended to be was that the ****** statement that the PS4 has NOTHING on the Xbox One is an overblown falsehood. I love my 360, and I don't care about the raw spec comparison too greatly between the two. However, I know that each console has its strong points, and that someone said otherwise is ridiculous.

 

[Keith Wallace]

Wifi-Direct can also be integrated with Bluetooth or NFC for some cool scenarios.

Examples:

-You establish a wifi-direct connection and a Bluetooth connection simultaneously. All data goes through Wifi-Direct, but the Bluetooth is used to limit the range of the connection. When the Bluetooth connection drops, so does the Wifi-Direct connection.

-Same range scenario for NFC. Lay your phone on the NFC pad to transfer 5 gigabyte files. NFC allows instant Wifi-Direct pairing, and the range is extremely limited.

Also, every Bluetooth problem you see is a result of how Bluetooth data transfer works. There are Bluetooth "profiles" and each profile allows you to do certain things. To stream video/audio over Bluetooth, you need to support a specific profile. Same goes for controlling devices and file transfers. That why different Bluetooth devices are capable of different function.

With Wifi-Direct, all those problems are gone.

Those Bluetooth and NFC scenarios aren't possible here though, are they? The new controller's not an NFC- or Bluetooth-enabled one, so it's all irrelevant for these purposes, no?

 

[Robert Carpenter]

Those Bluetooth and NFC scenarios aren't possible here though, are they? The new controller's not an NFC- or Bluetooth-enabled one, so it's all irrelevant for these purposes, no?

I was explaining the capabilities of Wifi-Direct technology in general. Nothing relating to the console

 

[Robert Carpenter]

I'll only reply to this once, as this is not the thread for the discussion.

The article you linked said that the Xbox has a GPU about on-par with a Radeon 7790, while the PlayStation's GPU is equivalent to a 7870. Those GPUs are not in the same class. Look here: AnandTech | AMD Radeon HD 7790 Review Feat. Sapphire: The First Desktop Sea Islands. The review doesn't include the 7870 itself, but it includes the 7850, which would be the 7870's little brother The 7790 never touches the 7850 in tests, so it most-certainly wouldn't touch the 7870, which is a bit better than the 7850 (that's how the naming scheme of AMD's cards works). The PS4 definitely has a better GPU in it.

Now, I'm just doing this quickly and moving on because, again, this is not the thread for this discussion. However, the PS4 has DDR5 memory in it, while the Xbox One is settling for DDR3. While I admittedly do not know their specific comparison, one random article made this statement: "There has been talk that 8GB of GDDR5 RAM is the same as 24GB DDR3 RAM. One of the factors that is key is how much of the RAM developers are able to freely use and if the PS4 will offer faster and better looking game, thanks to it having GDDR5." Basically, we KNOW that DDR5 is a meaningful step up in performance, but not how much it will matter. CNET had an article that also made mention, "The GDDR5 RAM used in the PlayStation 4 is the same type of RAM used by most PC video cards and is optimized for graphical throughput."

CNET also made a small comparison on the GPUs, saying, "Richard Leadbetter at Digital Foundry speculates that the PS4's GPU may have as much as 50 percent more raw graphical computational power than the one in the Xbox One. That, coupled with its faster graphics memory, may translate into prettier games on the PS4."

The PS4's known to have an overall lead in the hardware department the PS3 most certainly did. What my point was intended to be was that the ****** statement that the PS4 has NOTHING on the Xbox One is an overblown falsehood. I love my 360, and I don't care about the raw spec comparison too greatly between the two. However, I know that each console has its strong points, and that someone said otherwise is ridiculous.

I want the solid proof that the Xbox One uses DDR3. The best proof I've seen is that DDR3 was spotted on the motherboard of the Xbox One. However, no one visually pointed it out. From what I've seen Microsoft has never said anything about using DDR3 ram.

I'm not saying I don't believe it, but there is no solid proof.

 

[vertigoOne]

I'll only reply to this once, as this is not the thread for the discussion.

The article you linked said that the Xbox has a GPU about on-par with a Radeon 7790, while the PlayStation's GPU is equivalent to a 7870. Those GPUs are not in the same class. Look here: AnandTech | AMD Radeon HD 7790 Review Feat. Sapphire: The First Desktop Sea Islands. The review doesn't include the 7870 itself, but it includes the 7850, which would be the 7870's little brother The 7790 never touches the 7850 in tests, so it most-certainly wouldn't touch the 7870, which is a bit better than the 7850 (that's how the naming scheme of AMD's cards works). The PS4 definitely has a better GPU in it.

Now, I'm just doing this quickly and moving on because, again, this is not the thread for this discussion. However, the PS4 has DDR5 memory in it, while the Xbox One is settling for DDR3. While I admittedly do not know their specific comparison, one random article made this statement: "There has been talk that 8GB of GDDR5 RAM is the same as 24GB DDR3 RAM. One of the factors that is key is how much of the RAM developers are able to freely use and if the PS4 will offer faster and better looking game, thanks to it having GDDR5." Basically, we KNOW that DDR5 is a meaningful step up in performance, but not how much it will matter. CNET had an article that also made mention, "The GDDR5 RAM used in the PlayStation 4 is the same type of RAM used by most PC video cards and is optimized for graphical throughput."

CNET also made a small comparison on the GPUs, saying, "Richard Leadbetter at Digital Foundry speculates that the PS4's GPU may have as much as 50 percent more raw graphical computational power than the one in the Xbox One. That, coupled with its faster graphics memory, may translate into prettier games on the PS4."

The PS4's known to have an overall lead in the hardware department the PS3 most certainly did. What my point was intended to be was that the ****** statement that the PS4 has NOTHING on the Xbox One is an overblown falsehood. I love my 360, and I don't care about the raw spec comparison too greatly between the two. However, I know that each console has its strong points, and that someone said otherwise is ridiculous.

This really deserved it's own thread so that it could be properly torn apart.

I will only mention one point in this thread...is Sony capable of harnessing all of this power in a way that developers could actually utilize it to the full? We are four generations into the Playstation hardware now, and yet the potential within their hardware rarely bears any significant difference over the competition. And don't think for a second that you will not be paying dearly for that 8GB of GDDR5 RAM as it is rolled into the console's price.

 

[Keith Wallace]

This really deserved it's own thread so that it could be properly torn apart.

I will only mention one point in this thread...is Sony capable of harnessing all of this power in a way that developers could actually utilize it to the full? We are four generations into the Playstation hardware now, and yet the potential within their hardware rarely bears any significant difference over the competition. And don't think for a second that you will not be paying dearly for that 8GB of GDDR5 RAM as it is rolled into the console's price.

Good job on "tearing it apart." I never said that the hardware would give it an advantage. I said that the hardware is better, and that is a selling point, whether you like it or not. I never said the console wouldn't cost more as a result, it certainly did last time. You're basically trying to invalidate my argument with points I never made or disputed. He asked what made the hardware better, and I replied with the fact that the hardware is better. I didn't say what it would or wouldn't mean for the respective consoles, beyond that the superior specs on the PS3 didn't save it in the US, when it came to sales.

So talk about "tearing it apart," all you want, because you didn't offer a single statement that proved what I said false. Better GPU, plain and simple. RAM that is (expected to be) of a higher quality. The last generation showed that Sony will put better hardware into their stuff, even if it means a big loss on hardware sales. I don't see what there is to dispute my statements, because all I did was reply with factual statements about components.

 

[HeyCori]

This really deserved it's own thread so that it could be properly torn apart.

?????

:grin:

 

[banghaymo]

Wow this is a Wifi-Direct thread not a specs war.
But you sir Robert Carpenter thank you every so much for your post.
This info has got me really excited on the Xbox One since the possibilities are truly next gen with Wifi-Direct. Guys, this is a direct competition to Airplay, and supports more things that will blow you away.
Over 1400 different devices have been certified for Wi-Fi Direct as of 31 October 2012 according to Wikipedia.
Wi-Fi Direct is to provide a wireless connection to peripherals. Wireless mice, keyboards, remote controls, headsets, speakers, displays and many other functions can be implemented with Wi-Fi Direct.
Wifi Direct is becoming increasingly common in file sharing applications on Android devices, with most Android Version 4.1 (Ice Cream Sandwich) supported. Android version 4.2 (Jellybean) includes further refinements to Wifi Direct including persistent permissions enabling two-way transfer of data between multiple devices.

Also Miracast is supported with Wif-Direct, hence smartglass will finally become useful. This is like Bluetooth but next gen hehe.

Since Windows 8.1 will share more API's with Windows Phone Blue I surely hope Wifi-Direct will be added to the list.

But can someone answer me this, is it possible to add Wifi-Direct to a device with a firmware update or is that impossible?