Used games, a fee ?

[Coreldan]

Remember, there will be no difference at all between physical and digital. It's simply a different delivery method. Buying a used game at GameStop will be no different from buying a used game in the marketplace.

You will buy a used game from GameStop if you don't want to download it. Technically, there doesn't even need to be any to prevent people from copying and burning the disc. The physical disc is only for delivery. You can not use the physical disc to exploit the system at all anyways. If you alter the files on the disc, the console is going to compare the files with the latest game files in the cloud. If the files don't match, they will update/patch them.

No serial number is going to be on the physical disc or tied to it. It will simply be whether you have the game registered to your account or not. If someone takes your disc, and then puts it in their system, it will prompt them to purchase the game. If they purchase the game, it will not affect you at all.

If you want to get money for the game, you need to give up your registration. Simple as that. Otherwise, give the game away. It won't affect anyone. It just simply give someone else an easier delivery method.

My post was more about the "offline fallback" rather than the whole DRM stuff in general.

 

[Robert Carpenter]

My post was more about the "offline fallback" rather than the whole DRM stuff in general.

I know. I was trying to explain everything because it also answers that question. There is no offline fallback. This system is designed around an internet connection. You need to be online to register a new game. You need to be online regularly to continue playing that game. And you need to be online to sell/trade that game.

 

[Coreldan]

Probably, but it was more so brainstorming how could the need for constant online checking be "bypassed". There are still handful of scenarios where having the X1 offline is a viable idea, such as internet outages, vacations in location with electricity but no internet, etc.

Although nowadays when just about all phones can tether internet, it shouldn't really be a problem either

 

[tk-093]

I know. I was trying to explain everything because it also answers that question. There is no offline fallback. This system is designed around an internet connection. You need to be online to register a new game. You need to be online regularly to continue playing that game. And you need to be online to sell/trade that game.

I don't think all of that is set it stone yet. We don't know for a fact that there is no offline fallback. I'm sure they would like to avoid it, but let's face it, there is a still a good chunk of people who are not online.

This is how I would do it... I think the disk will be important. As I mentioned on a Blu-Ray you can encode a specifc ID number on each disk you create. When you install that disk it pretty much ties your Live account to that specific disk. If for some chance you are unable to get to the internet for the spot check, the game could pause and say to continue please enter the install disk. That way offline people are covered.

As for rentals, they could stamp special disks with a range of ID numbers that the One reads as rental disks and requires they be in the drive even after install.

That's what I would do anyway.

 

[Robert Carpenter]

Probably, but it was more so brainstorming how could the need for constant online checking be "bypassed". There are still handful of scenarios where having the X1 offline is a viable idea, such as internet outages, vacations in location with electricity but no internet, etc.

Although nowadays when just about all phones can tether internet, it shouldn't really be a problem either

I think the optimal solution is to do exactly what they are doing, but increase the "online DRM checks" to a 1 week interval. I think 1 week without internet is a very reasonable timespan that would cover most vacations and scenarios.

Couple this with a way to authenticate your game DRM using a cell phone, and that should be more than enough for modern times.

 

[tk-093]

I think the optimal solution is to do exactly what they are doing, but increase the "online DRM checks" to a 1 week interval. I think 1 week without internet is a very reasonable timespan that would cover most vacations and scenarios.

Couple this with a way to authenticate your game DRM using a cell phone, and that should be more than enough for modern times.

One week seems like a long time. You could rent a game and install it on you and your 5 buddies X1s and play the heck out of it in one week.

 

[SnailUK]

I think the optimal solution is to do exactly what they are doing, but increase the "online DRM checks" to a 1 week interval. I think 1 week without internet is a very reasonable timespan that would cover most vacations and scenarios.

I'd disagree.

With your model, you can easily buy a game, install/activate it, then sell it the same day, and have a week to complete it.

In my mind, i'd keep the one day rule, and if that fails, then revert back to a disk check. Which allows a genuine user to keep using the game indefinitely, as long as you have a disk.

 

[Bicpug]

A lot of AAA games cost so much because the devs have gotten used to pissing the money away hiring hollywood actors for cut scenes,i goto the movies to see hollywood actors; If you must have cut scenes use unknowns who can act.

 

[Robert Carpenter]

One week seems like a long time. You could rent a game and install it on you and your 5 buddies X1s and play the heck out of it in one week.

That is why you need to be connected to install/register a game. The one-week period is after a connection has been established.

I don't think game rentals are going to be possible with Xbox One. The only way for game rentals to work is if they have a "rental code". You need to enter the rental code to install/register the game. If you use the code, your friends won't be able to use it because the code is already used.

Therefore, the scenario you described is not possible.

 

[Robert Carpenter]

I'd disagree.

With your model, you can easily buy a game, install/activate it, then sell it the same day, and have a week to complete it.

In my mind, i'd keep the one day rule, and if that fails, then revert back to a disk check. Which allows a genuine user to keep using the game indefinitely, as long as you have a disk.

Valid point, but it raises another question. What is the difference between selling the game the day you bought it, or waiting a week to sell it?

In the gaming world, an open box is an open box whether it was purchased last week or yesterday.

What are you gaining by doing this?

 

[tk-093]

That is why you need to be connected to install/register a game. The one-week period is after a connection has been established.

I don't think game rentals are going to be possible with Xbox One. The only way for game rentals to work is if they have a "rental code". You need to enter the rental code to install/register the game. If you use the code, your friends won't be able to use it because the code is already used.

Therefore, the scenario you described is not possible.

With my idea rentals would work. When the game disk is burned it gets a unique ID. You burn a range of disks with a range of IDs that are a "rental" range. Those games will still install but the X1 will require the disk stay in the machine.

This is all assuming I'm correct about that Blu-ray ID thingy.... I can't remember where I read about that....

Either way it's fun talking about this stuff, no?

 

[tk-093]

Ahh, it's called the "Pre-recorded Media Serial Number" it can be burned into the burst cut area of the disk.

 

[Reflexx]

If people whine enough, they'll be left with a solution that they REALLY don't like.

Development costs are increasing. That's just a fact.

If people want to to get rid of these solutions, then how about this?

Imagine if developers decided to sell their digital copies for $60, but their physical copies for $90?

 

[Villain]

the general public and media most have/are probably blowing most of this topic out of proportion. Micosoft already debunked most of the rumors surrounding it as well and said details are not close to being finalized.


how I think the whole Used games / Always Online will work.

- your game installs to your HDD and you won't need to insert the game disc.

- the network checks every 24 hours for verification... without the network checking and not needing the disc you could buy one copy and share it with as many people as possible.

- network sees the disk being installed and played on another system so it would disable the game on your HDD.

- If you have no internet then you will be required to have the game disc in the drive for validations (same way the current 360 and installs work)


simple, easy and makes sense.

 

[Reflexx]

A lot of AAA games cost so much because the devs have gotten used to pissing the money away hiring hollywood actors for cut scenes,i goto the movies to see hollywood actors; If you must have cut scenes use unknowns who can act.

That's a tiny portion of expenses. A really tiny portion.

A lot of times, these Hollywood actors are working at low rates just because they want to be in the game.

 

[Reflexx]

With my idea rentals would work. When the game disk is burned it gets a unique ID. You burn a range of disks with a range of IDs that are a "rental" range. Those games will still install but the X1 will require the disk stay in the machine.

This is all assuming I'm correct about that Blu-ray ID thingy.... I can't remember where I read about that....

Either way it's fun talking about this stuff, no?

It is fun.

And best of all, it's not whiny like you find in some places.

WPCentral... where people can be level headed and brainstorm solutions!

 

[CaptDjob]

the general public and media most have/are probably blowing most of this topic out of proportion. Micosoft already debunked most of the rumors surrounding it as well and said details are not close to being finalized.


how I think the whole Used games / Always Online will work.

- your game installs to your HDD and you won't need to insert the game disc.

- the network checks every 24 hours for verification... without the network checking and not needing the disc you could buy one copy and share it with as many people as possible.

- network sees the disk being installed and played on another system so it would disable the game on your HDD.

- If you have no internet then you will be required to have the game disc in the drive for validations (same way the current 360 and installs work)


simple, easy and makes sense.

I think you are correct. Only addition to be made would be games that could be played fully in offline. Those games need to have disc in the drive all the time. Then everything is covered. Because if not, then you could install the game to your console (with internet connection) and give the game to your friend who plays offline and both could play the same game.

 

[ncxcstud]

And, for all the naysayers out there, Sony is rumored to be implementing a similar used games system... This is the movement of the industry as a whole.

How Sony didn't initially get flak for it is beyond me since they gave just as much information about it as Microsoft (which isn't a whole lot)...

Though, I am hopeful (and expecting) an offline mode to play games, this week does make it more 'real.'

We had a huge storm in my area yesterday. The only 'damage' done to our house was that a tree fell on the cable that provides us access to the internet through our provider. Our ISP can't come out until Friday to have it repaired and get us back on the network.

As long as the discs don't become useless coasters, all will be good.

Coreldan - the internet sharing through phones isn't ideal - at least not in my area - as I would have to pay even more money to AT&T to allow my phone to do that per month. Stinks... especially as I'm in that situation right now

 

[Coreldan]

Yeah, I've heard you US peeps have it a bit meh with that. Well, I guess something positive out of living in Finland for once!

 

[Robert Carpenter]

Coreldan - the internet sharing through phones isn't ideal - at least not in my area - as I would have to pay even more money to AT&T to allow my phone to do that per month. Stinks... especially as I'm in that situation right now

Internet Sharing is not needed.

Sign into your account on your phone.
Select the game you want to play.
A special QR Code is generated and displayed on your phone.
Show your phone screen to your Kinect
QR Code is scanned by Kinect.
Algorithms/Verification is checked.

Verified. Game starts.

Just one example of how this can be achieved without tethering. This method would work with any device that has a screen and internet access.