05-30-2013 05:03 PM
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  1. DavidinCT's Avatar
    I saw a post saying that the Xbox one will play used games but, they charge a fee. Is this true ? What happends when I have a family member come over my home with a game ? What happens if I rent a game ?

    This is a outrage to me, I shop for a lot of used games, about 80% of the games are used. Why ? Because if I was spending $60 on every game, I could not play as many games (as I buy month old games for around $30).

    If there is a fee, what type of fee are they talking about ?
    05-21-2013 03:34 PM
  2. Courtney S's Avatar
    Yes there are rumors about a fee, but as with the always online speculation, I think we are going to have to wait and see how MS is going to handle this situation. I think many of the gaming questions we have are going to be answered at E3. Until then, I'm not going to worry about it.

    I personally don't believe this huge group of gamers will get screwed over. Then again, there is a big push for a new wave of gaming that won't necessarily rely on buying used games (playing games on the cloud and such). So it's hard to speculate either way. That's why I'm waiting for confirmation.

    If they are going to make people pay a fee for a second hand game, then games are going to be priced cheaper, or the cost to pay to use someone else's game will be lower.
    DavidinCT likes this.
    05-21-2013 03:39 PM
  3. Robert Carpenter's Avatar
    I saw a post saying that the Xbox one will play used games but, they charge a fee. Is this true ? What happends when I have a family member come over my home with a game ? What happens if I rent a game ?

    This is a outrage to me, I shop for a lot of used games, about 80% of the games are used. Why ? Because if I was spending $60 on every game, I could not play as many games (as I buy month old games for around $30).

    If there is a fee, what type of fee are they talking about ?
    I think it's best to let Microsoft provide your answers.

    Look at it how you want, but if they are blocking used games, they are losing less money. This strategy could result in cheaper game releases since more money goes directly to Microsoft and the developers.

    Wait until E3 for the answers.
    05-21-2013 03:46 PM
  4. DavidinCT's Avatar
    Ok, so more rumors, good....ah, I feel better... I saw someone create a post saying it, I thought they read something today.

    My mistake for creating this thread then. Sorry !
    05-21-2013 04:32 PM
  5. Reflexx's Avatar
    MS confirmed that there could be a fee associated with games that were installed on a different account. But they also said that they are committed to the used market and that the details behind it will be released later.

    So, since the details are released later, it would be best to wait for those details before jumping to conclusions and stressing out based on those conclusions.
    05-21-2013 06:13 PM
  6. Courtney S's Avatar
    MS confirmed that there could be a fee
    Haha, "confirming that there could be" a fee is like saying definitely maybe. Still no answer yet. We are just going to have to wait and see how the handle this.
    05-22-2013 10:10 AM
  7. jlzimmerman's Avatar
    Consoles are going the way of PC games in this fashion. One game per machine/account. I would bet moneyz that Sony is going to do something similar with the PS4. Some call it greed, but there's more to it. Developers/publishers are dumping so much money into games now, and there's also more pirating/hacking of games. The latter is what is driving the daily internet connection requirement of the XBox One-hundred pounds (the think is huge, right???)

    I'll be the first to tell you that I don't like this, as almost all of my games are used. This is really going to hurt GameStop and GameFly unless they do something. M$ may partner with stores like this to provide the stores a bucket of registration codes. I go to buy a used game, GameStop provides a registration code with it. Of course, I'm paying more than what I do for a used game now, which is not annoying. Then there's the chance that a new fee and used game may be as much as new. That will drive a lot of the gamer base away Xbox unless PS4 does the same thing.
    Reflexx and DavidinCT like this.
    05-22-2013 01:20 PM
  8. Reflexx's Avatar
    If I were to take a guess, I'd say that there will be a used game marketplace through the XBOX. You'll be able to sell or trade your license.

    However, there will be a commission fee that is given to the developer of the game. And it won't be a percentage, it will be a set fee based on how old the game is.

    So a game that is only a month old might have a $40 fee go to the developers when you sell it to someone else. If you want to sell it for just $40, then fine. If you want to sell it for $50, then you make $10.

    If a game is 6 months old, then maybe only $25 goes to the developer. If it's a year old, then $15. Two years old? Maybe $10.

    And since I'm making wild guesses... I'd say that those numbers would be determined by the developer or publisher. And the time spans for when it gets cheaper would be determined by them also.

    I'd also guess that a percentage of the amount that the developer makes from a license transfer would go to Microsoft, or Gamestop, or whatever store, for facilitating the actual license transfer process.
    05-22-2013 03:04 PM
  9. Ridemyscooter86's Avatar
    just remember, most likely this is what will happen, whatever sony decides to do about it, microsoft will follow. It would be idiotic on either side, for one company to have a better used game policy, like if sony said used games, no fee, and then ms said, used games 10$ fee, that would make a lot of people want to buy sony instead, so you can bet that what one company does, the other will follow suit.
    05-22-2013 04:18 PM
  10. JonnieLasVegas's Avatar
    This is exactly why I'm waiting at least 6 months, maybe a year, after release to decide which console to buy. Wait out the inevitable buggy first wave of consoles and find out which company is going to make it easier/cheaper to play used games.
    05-22-2013 04:42 PM
  11. Bicpug's Avatar
    If there's a fee even when the original dvd is in the drive, a lot of people will ignore the xbox1 and buy ps4. Requiring the original disc for a validity check is simple to do and any other system would just be MS fleecing the customers.
    05-22-2013 04:54 PM
  12. DavidinCT's Avatar
    I'm a huge Microsoft supporter, I have spend many of thousands of dollars on their products from my PocketPC 1.0 all the way up to every version to WP8 and every game system, PC too (plus tons of games)

    You wana know what ? I never hacked any of my Xbox systems, my PS3 is modded like crazy. If Microsoft blocks used games like they are planning to, I will mod my xbox and buy used games to play on it. Sure I will lose my achievements and wont be able to play on line but, I can play the games I want, with out being robbed. It wont be on day one, I know that but, give it 6-8 months, the hackers always find a way, they always do. I don't want go that route but, I will, if I have to.

    If the fee is like $5 for used games, that is understandable because they already made money off the game when it was sold. There is very high chance, the game I buy used, I would not of gotten at full price anyway and would not be willing to pay $60 for a game that I don't MUST HAVE. So, By Microsoft being greedy (is where I see a full retail cost for a month old used game), they will lose sales. I know I am not the only one who buys a lot of used games and for the reason of value in game.

    I can live with a small fee but, a used game costing the same price of retail after fees, then I guess I will be playing a lot less games for the "one" or spend more on a PS4 (if they are not doing this). I will be buying both.

    PC market, is different if you buy retail games, If you uninstall the game, and resell it, it will reinstall and play, I believe the license says you can do this as long as you do not keep any part of the program on your PCs. Kind of how Microsoft's licenses are for Windows (retail copies) where you CAN resell as long as you keep none of the software on your systems.

    I guess this will have to go back to a government case, just like Music CDs.. Microsoft is trying to own the media you pay for, you should have a right to do with the media (your copy) as you choose. When you buy something, it's worth money to a point (a dollar value used, like todays market), you know if you buy a game and you don't like it or don't want to keep it, you can sell it to a friend, eBay or get ripped off by game stop. The point I am making is what Microsoft is doing is taking the Media that you own and make it worthless or worth very little.

    Maybe it's me, I just think it's wrong and should be illegal. That is something for the courts to decide. I don't think this will last very long as there will be a lot of people battling this one. Say 6 months after release, a large class action lawsuit will appear, I would almost bet on it.
    05-22-2013 07:31 PM
  13. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    It doesn't have to be a small, $5 fee. We're talking about the GAME LICENSE ITSELF. It would actually benefit consumers if they made it even a $40 license. You could get 2 copies of a game from the disc purchase for $50 that way ($60 for the disc, $40 for the second license). I actually would support Microsoft in THAT endeavor, but they have to allow for releasing a license so used games and borrowing still exist.
    05-22-2013 11:48 PM
  14. smoledman's Avatar
    I'm pretty sure Microsoft will be reasonable.
    05-23-2013 01:24 AM
  15. Reflexx's Avatar
    MS has a used games plan that they will announce.

    Since they're saying there will be a future announcement, whatever the plan is, it might be a big deal and worth waiting for.
    05-23-2013 01:37 AM
  16. Coreldan's Avatar
    PC market, is different if you buy retail games, If you uninstall the game, and resell it, it will reinstall and play, I believe the license says you can do this as long as you do not keep any part of the program on your PCs. Kind of how Microsoft's licenses are for Windows (retail copies) where you CAN resell as long as you keep none of the software on your systems.
    But this is not the case, not even close for most games. I guess the "retail" word might sorta make you sort of right (compared to digital downloads), but generally speaking what you are afraid of is very much the reality in PC gaming already
    05-23-2013 04:11 AM
  17. jhguth's Avatar
    And just to clarify for your question about if a friend comes over; they would just need to sign in on their live name to play the game they brought. so, it will work just fine.
    05-23-2013 05:52 AM
  18. DavidinCT's Avatar
    It doesn't have to be a small, $5 fee. We're talking about the GAME LICENSE ITSELF. It would actually benefit consumers if they made it even a $40 license. You could get 2 copies of a game from the disc purchase for $50 that way ($60 for the disc, $40 for the second license). I actually would support Microsoft in THAT endeavor, but they have to allow for releasing a license so used games and borrowing still exist.
    I take it you never sold or traded in a game before ? Now that $60 game you just got(that you decided you didn't want to play after all) is worth $5 because no one will pay more than $45-50 for a used game. So, that new release, you picked up 2 days ago, is worth $5 or less. RIght now, if you pick up a game, say a 360 or PS3 game that is just released, and play it, and deside you hate it, you could turn around and get $45-55 for it, if it's a hot game.

    You never swapped games with your friends or rented a game before ? This breaks all of this and you wont be able to do it, even with the person next door.

    You dont have an issue with that ?

    I see that as a damage to value of my media, licence or not. When you sell the game, you transfter the licence of the Media, Period. That is they way it always worked. If they charge a small fee, then I am ok with it, meaning my value in my media is still there.

    Everyone will have a different thought here but, I stand by how I feel about it. Same happend with me when Music market went into the same thing with Music rights and we won the rights to do with the media as we chose as long as we dont keep a copy for ourselfs if we transfter the product.

    As this not final and MS is going to be clear later on this, it's more of a discussion but, I DO HAVE AN ISSUE WITH IT.

    If this does go main stream and does happen, I do forsee it will end up in court. Wonder what Sony is going to do here ?
    05-23-2013 08:04 AM
  19. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    I take it you never sold or traded in a game before ? Now that $60 game you just got(that you decided you didn't want to play after all) is worth $5 because no one will pay more than $45-50 for a used game. So, that new release, you picked up 2 days ago, is worth $5 or less. RIght now, if you pick up a game, say a 360 or PS3 game that is just released, and play it, and deside you hate it, you could turn around and get $45-55 for it, if it's a hot game.

    You never swapped games with your friends or rented a game before ? This breaks all of this and you wont be able to do it, even with the person next door.

    You dont have an issue with that ?

    I see that as a damage to value of my media, licence or not. When you sell the game, you transfter the licence of the Media, Period. That is they way it always worked. If they charge a small fee, then I am ok with it, meaning my value in my media is still there.

    Everyone will have a different thought here but, I stand by how I feel about it. Same happend with me when Music market went into the same thing with Music rights and we won the rights to do with the media as we chose as long as we dont keep a copy for ourselfs if we transfter the product.

    As this not final and MS is going to be clear later on this, it's more of a discussion but, I DO HAVE AN ISSUE WITH IT.

    If this does go main stream and does happen, I do forsee it will end up in court. Wonder what Sony is going to do here ?
    You know, this is the basis of PC gaming, and has been for YEARS now. People love Steam, and there is no game sharing or used game market on the PC, yet no one throws a fit because the prices are usually reasonable (thanks to constant sales on Steam). Yeah, I've sold games, and you NEVER get $45-55 when you trade them in. Do you pay attention to GameStop? They, on release day, guarantee a new game for $30 in trade-in value. The second you open that game, GameStop depreciates the value by 50%, and it'll drop from there after a few months, if not sooner.

    I don't have much of a problem with this model, I really don't. If Microsoft uses this to LOWER new game sales prices, I'm cool with it. If we see people able to share a disc, then only pay $40-50 for that new game license, I'll give up used games for that, seeing as used games at GameStop (who borderline has a monopoly on the used game market) are $55 for their first few months, at the least.

    This is all about the implementation. If they run it like Steam, putting older games up and on-sale all the time, it'll be great. If they simply use the disc as a quick way to install (instead of slow DSL like mine), and charge the same $60 for the license and make this whole thing a hassle, it'll be terrible. However, I am currently giving Microsoft the benefit of the doubt on this matter, considering how user-friendly they got with Windows Phone, and how they've managed to stay such a big company for so long. They're not QUITE dumb enough to totally botch this. Like it was speculated, the Xbox One might have initially been always-online, but they changed that after hearing the backlash and seeing the SimCity mess. If that's true, then we can (hopefully) trust that they'll hear negative feedback and concerns here and make the small adjustments as they are needed.
    05-23-2013 09:40 AM
  20. DavidinCT's Avatar
    You know, this is the basis of PC gaming, and has been for YEARS now. People love Steam, and there is no game sharing or used game market on the PC, yet no one throws a fit because the prices are usually reasonable (thanks to constant sales on Steam). Yeah, I've sold games, and you NEVER get $45-55 when you trade them in. Do you pay attention to GameStop? They, on release day, guarantee a new game for $30 in trade-in value. The second you open that game, GameStop depreciates the value by 50%, and it'll drop from there after a few months, if not sooner.
    Yes, I very well understand DIGITAL DOWNLOADS. The digial downloads is something different than my point here. I clearly understand if I buy a game off steam or Xbox live, I know I own that game and cant share it or sell it. That is something that I understand and accept. There are great values in games on digital download on Steam and I do use that service too for some PC games. There is nothing wrong with the model where you buy a game that is a month old on sale for like $40-50 that is at retail for $60 and I dont mind that.

    I am disussing retail games(retail box games) and not talking about GameRip off (Gamestop for trade-ins). Yes, I know if you take that new game into gamestop, they will only give you $30ish for it. If it's over a month old, your lucky if they will give you $20 for it. I checked a few times to see their offers and was insulted (a month and 1/2 old hot game they offered $10 for). I am talking about resale. Putting your game on ebay or one of the other 3rd party sites, where you will get close to retail for. I can drive to gamestop and get $10-30 for a newer game or put it up on ebay and get between $30-55. That is the best I can get for used games where people are willing to pay for the games.

    It's very hard, if not impossable to find a sale on a newly released Xbox or PS3 game, so if you want it, your paying $60+tax on it. If Microsoft made the deals fair and only had a low cost to use a used game then it might be acceptable. It all depends on how greedy they get. Time has proven that they could start at one price and just keep raising it.

    I guess we agree to disagree on some of this, I agree with some of your points but, not all of them. I do stand on the fact that if I buy a game for $60, I expect if I want to sell or transfer that game to someone else, my value should still be there but, if MS charges a fee for used games, I lose value in my game and I do and always will have an issue with it.

    I guess we wait to see what MS says, I am sure some people will agree with me and others wont. I have no problems with that.

    Come on Microsoft, your turn.
    05-23-2013 12:47 PM
  21. vertigoOne's Avatar
    I rarely trade in my games, and find digital distribution to be the way forward for me in order to retain the value in my purchases. I also rarely buy used games because I know that this does not support the creator of the game, and if it is a game that I like, I want them to be able to make more like it.

    I feel that the reason that new games are $60 is in part to blame on the used games market. Steam is a good example of new game costs lowering due to digital distribution. I hope that the used game market's days are numbered as a gamer that wishes to see the industry thrive.
    curseoftheninja likes this.
    05-23-2013 01:01 PM
  22. omniusovermind's Avatar
    Here's what Cnet has to say about it and I totally agree:

    It's no secret that every major video game company would like used games to go away, largely because they don't get a cut of any of those resale dollars. The Xbox One gives Microsoft a chance to reboot the idea of how game sales work.
    The problem the publishers face is that games are simply too expensive at $60, particularly for a digital download. Often, you get no discount for downloading the digital version, so there's no incentive to buy it when you can pick up the hard copy instead and later trade it in, sell it, or simply swap with a friend for another game. You'd think that if publishers wanted to tamp down the used copy sales, they'd push people toward digital downloads with pricing incentives. But that would also upset the relationship they have with retailers, so you're left with a backward-looking market.
    The long and short of it is that if publishers, Microsoft, and presumably others want to do away with the used-games market as we know it, the pricing for games is going to have to change. At this time, we don't know exactly how much new games for the next-gen systems will cost -- prices could very well go up for AAA next-gen titles -- but they ultimately need to go down, not up.
    Somehow I doubt that will happen. But if it doesn't, fewer people will buy games when they're first released. Some will wait till the price drops (as the price for Bioshock Infinite did).
    But many more will gravitate toward spending their time --and money -- playing cheap mobile games. Or maybe not getting a new console to begin with
    DavidinCT and curseoftheninja like this.
    05-24-2013 01:13 AM
  23. Terrin's Avatar
    Okay first off alot of people do not understand sony will need the same system or something similar to it as they plan the same thing that you do not need the disk after installing it that is the problem, Think if you rent a game say from gamefly install it and send it back hey I have the game it would destory game sales in general.

    So the 2 theorys, polygons top one is say when I put the disk in it registers to my profile *why it needs a internet connection* then when I loan the game to my friend or trade it in to gamestop when that disk hits another console it would deregister from my account.

    Second and most popular theory is the fee as this gives money back to developers and it isn't to bad say I buy a game for 60 and say my friend wants it he can just get a license for X dollars *sense after its installed he dosn't need the disk*


    I am not really happy with the second option but it makes sense,

    Yes a microsoft rep did say this but its still all up int he air as the offical statement is we will learn alittle before e3 of all the small details of how it works *I assume right around the sony confrence when they announce the same system* (most likely a back door deal)
    05-25-2013 05:04 PM
  24. ncxcstud's Avatar
    Microsoft seems to be setting about a system that continually supports the developers through the recouping of funds through used sales and also in curbing piracy.

    My hope, is that the offset to any of these systems is that the INITIAL COST of the games will DECREASE this generation. One of the reasons the costs of games has increased by $10.00 every generation since the SNES is to combat used games and piracy. They have to sell it higher knowing that they won't get the funds from the sales of used games or from pirated games...

    If the this generation sees games around the $45-50 dollar range. I'd be happy as can be...
    DavidinCT likes this.
    05-25-2013 05:15 PM
  25. DavidinCT's Avatar
    Okay first off alot of people do not understand sony will need the same system or something similar to it as they plan the same thing that you do not need the disk after installing it that is the problem, Think if you rent a game say from gamefly install it and send it back hey I have the game it would destory game sales in general.
    With all the complaining I do about games and values here, I will admit I would love that feature. I would love to be able to just install the game and put my media on the shelf and never need to pick it up, unless I want to read the manual or something. I always have a stack of "current" games on my xbox, right now that sits at 7, to be able to play a game with out putting in a disk would be epic in my case.

    With that being said, There also should be a way to "uninstall" a game, this would allow you to sell or buy a used game but, have a printout (like from your live account) saying it has been removed from your account (Proof that a game is removed from the past system and able to be played/sold to a 2nd owner).

    The rental agreement could be that the game just expires after the rental time. If you rented a game for a week, it's in their system that the game could be used for 7 days then expires on your system. It will do like it does on WP when a app expires or it's license is revoked from the marketplace, you could have it installed but, when you run it, it tell you your only option is to buy the game or uninstall it.

    Microsoft has been crafty with DRM in the past, WHEN IT WORKS RIGHT, IF they make it work where it will make games easier, I can buy a used game for a good value with out worrying if it can be played AND I could still keep the value if I chose to sell the game.

    Now if games where $60 on release, 3 weeks later $50, and a month and 1/2 from then $35 I might not even think about buying used games. At $60 a pop for everything, they are too much to play everything out there but, if I know I wait a moth and 1/2, I could get the game for around the price I want to pay for it, it's a win win for everyone.

    Blocking used sales is just a bad things for video games for gamers but, if there is a reasonable workaround, it might just work...
    05-26-2013 11:59 AM
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