05-29-2013 02:21 PM
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  1. jonathan sink's Avatar
    Just going to throw a "what if" in here.

    What if the constant monitoring and tracking helps to improve the user experience for all of us. What if they pick up that people start saying commands for things that the Xbox One cant do. I mean the guys at MS are pretty smart but they wont have thought of everything. What if they pick up on little nuances like you always go back to the start screen when you take a break from the game. Pretty soon when you get up from the sofa and go to do something the Kinect picks up your leaving its field of view and returns to the home screen itself without a command. There are so many possibilities which is what I find quite exciting rather than worrying.
    we meet again lol!
    I think that they can do it the way its always been done user feedback. Lets be honest we haven't needed to "spy" on people to get this far and we have come very far in a short amount of time.

    On a side note I do like the idea of getting away from the Kinect and it doin an auto pause/save. If that's straight from your imagination I thank you for sharing it.
    05-23-2013 01:29 PM
  2. martinmc78's Avatar
    we meet again lol!
    I think that they can do it the way its always been done user feedback. Lets be honest we haven't needed to "spy" on people to get this far and we have come very far in a short amount of time.

    On a side note I do like the idea of getting away from the Kinect and it doin an auto pause/save. If that's straight from your imagination I thank you for sharing it.
    Yes - Xbox One is a hot topic. There's a few of us commenting on multiple threads at the moment.

    Hmm user feedback has its pros and cons, can honestly say I've never given feedback to MS on any of my consoles. I'm looking at it as an instant consumer use meter rather than spying. If they can pick up that I am using my Kinect the same as 5000 other people and its not a way they've thought of a quick update can solve it. Maybe it would be a simple thing such as regional accents or a fix for peoples tones of voice. I don't know... Just think the fact that there's a chance MS have a bank of servers just waiting to flag up issues and solve them on the spot rather than people taking to the internet and bashing MS for a fix can only be a good thing. It could all be complete speculation however as were all just going off rumours.

    Yeah I think it would be a nice touch - Kinect currently pauses games if you leave field of view but its only on Kinect enabled ones - technically if Kinect is always on it may just do the same but with all games and movies.
    05-23-2013 01:45 PM
  3. Robert Carpenter's Avatar
    we meet again lol!
    I think that they can do it the way its always been done user feedback. Lets be honest we haven't needed to "spy" on people to get this far and we have come very far in a short amount of time.

    On a side note I do like the idea of getting away from the Kinect and it doin an auto pause/save. If that's straight from your imagination I thank you for sharing it.
    You will never have the efficiency and audience using the user-feedback method.

    We haven't "needed to", does that mean we shouldn't pursue new ways of thinking in order to improve upon ourselves? This is how the tech world works. This is what gives the tech world its "exponential" rate of growth. Your methodology forces that back to a "linear" rate of growth.

    Microsoft can spy on you to gain data. They can either use it for good or for bad. But if the intent is good, then why not?
    Everything that can be used for good can also be used for evil. Does that mean we should be able to use those things at all?

    I completely understand your concerns, I'm just trying to make open up and let your mind wander. :)
    05-23-2013 01:45 PM
  4. jonathan sink's Avatar
    You will never have the efficiency and audience using the user-feedback method.

    We haven't "needed to", does that mean we shouldn't pursue new ways of thinking in order to improve upon ourselves? This is how the tech world works. This is what gives the tech world its "exponential" rate of growth. Your methodology forces that back to a "linear" rate of growth.

    Microsoft can spy on you to gain data. They can either use it for good or for bad. But if the intent is good, then why not?
    Everything that can be used for good can also be used for evil. Does that mean we should be able to use those things at all?

    I completely understand your concerns, I'm just trying to make open up and let your mind wander. :)
    ok the problem here is you stated that the tech world has exponential growth. Now to my knowledge the tech world isn't spying now, and yet they achieve that already. So why would they need to "spy" to achieve what's already happening?

    The reason I take concern with this is because as history shows us. Power corrupts, so what may be used for good today will rest assured be used for evil another day.
    05-23-2013 02:05 PM
  5. jonathan sink's Avatar
    Yes - Xbox One is a hot topic. There's a few of us commenting on multiple threads at the moment.

    Hmm user feedback has its pros and cons, can honestly say I've never given feedback to MS on any of my consoles. I'm looking at it as an instant consumer use meter rather than spying. If they can pick up that I am using my Kinect the same as 5000 other people and its not a way they've thought of a quick update can solve it. Maybe it would be a simple thing such as regional accents or a fix for peoples tones of voice. I don't know... Just think the fact that there's a chance MS have a bank of servers just waiting to flag up issues and solve them on the spot rather than people taking to the internet and bashing MS for a fix can only be a good thing. It could all be complete speculation however as were all just going off rumours.

    Yeah I think it would be a nice touch - Kinect currently pauses games if you leave field of view but its only on Kinect enabled ones - technically if Kinect is always on it may just do the same but with all games and movies.
    I agree that it could be easier then user feedback but as I sated a few post down to another person there can be huge problems with such "power" if you will. I for one do give feedback, I grew up in a small business (by small my dad and 2 other employees) so I know how important it is to tell the company the truth as often and respectful as possible. So it does pain me to see as you say bashing in any review for any company, that doesn't help. I would also say that in this day and age user feedback is at a high and probably growing due to all the outlets in which to communicate.
    05-23-2013 02:14 PM
  6. Robert Carpenter's Avatar
    ok the problem here is you stated that the tech world has exponential growth. Now to my knowledge the tech world isn't spying now, and yet they achieve that already. So why would they need to "spy" to achieve what's already happening?

    The reason I take concern with this is because as history shows us. Power corrupts, so what may be used for good today will rest assured be used for evil another day.
    The tech world spies on everything. Every major platform has this type of stuff built it natively. Every app you use, every button press you make inside of an app, everything. It's existed for years.

    Telemetry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Just because companies extract and use this data doesn't mean their are identities to it. This data can be completely anonymous and still provide all of the benefits. As long as they can associate data to the same user.

    It's not: John Doe played Angry Birds. John Doe searched "motorcycles". John Doe sent an email.
    It's this: User-1484z4f played Angry Birds. User-1484z4f searched "motorcycles". User-1484z4f sent an email.

    This data helps them on extreme levels. And most of the time it's completely safe.

    What's scary is when it comes to search results, which is why I fear Google. AOL released the search queries of thousands of anonymous users in order to promote and help scientific studies, publically. It was all for good reasons, to improve research. Turns out, a group of researchers found out that over 95% of these anonymous users were able to be re-identified using only their search results. As a result AOL was forced to remove the public data, but as we all know you can delete things from the internet.

    To this day, you can browse all of that data here: AOL database scandal and keyword tool

    (Take a look if you have time. It's very interesting.)
    Vallos likes this.
    05-23-2013 02:24 PM
  7. AaHaa's Avatar
    Changed the name of the thread. This isn't about my comic anymore :P
    05-23-2013 03:23 PM
  8. Funky Cricket's Avatar
    Here's the deal, I haven't bought a console since dreamcast because of all this crap. I don't want to have my account tied to a game or a console, or have to be online to play a racing game against a computer, or play halo single player. I want to buy a single player game, play it in my bedroom with no internet on an old crappy tv, or take it on vacation where I don't have internet. How many RV's have PS's or Xbox's in them just for that reason, you can play madden or GTA without having to be online. It's getting to be you can't BUY anything, you are just paying for permission to use. F that. It's why I don't have an e-Reader, I want to BUY a book, not f'ing rent one. Same with DVD's. I work as a network engineer, i'm all about tech, but this grabby hands into my wallet is getting to be an over reach.
    05-23-2013 03:29 PM
  9. Robert Carpenter's Avatar
    Here's the deal, I haven't bought a console since dreamcast because of all this crap. I don't want to have my account tied to a game or a console, or have to be online to play a racing game against a computer, or play halo single player. I want to buy a single player game, play it in my bedroom with no internet on an old crappy tv, or take it on vacation where I don't have internet. How many RV's have PS's or Xbox's in them just for that reason, you can play madden or GTA without having to be online. It's getting to be you can't BUY anything, you are just paying for permission to use. F that. It's why I don't have an e-Reader, I want to BUY a book, not f'ing rent one. Same with DVD's. I work as a network engineer, i'm all about tech, but this grabby hands into my wallet is getting to be an over reach.
    A network engineer who hates being online DEFINITELY gave me a good laugh. And I don't mean that with any disrespect, just pointing out the irony.

    You can't create a product that satisfies everyone. The new advances in technology offer amazing benefits too, but you can't always integrate all of them and keep every legacy user happy at the same time.

    There's nothing anyone can say to you besides this. "Don't buy a new console."
    If you feel that strongly about it, invest, start a company, and build your own.

    =/
    Odog4ever likes this.
    05-23-2013 03:52 PM
  10. Carchariax's Avatar
    I will be a proud owner of an Xbox One, Playstation 4 and a Wii U. Everyone else can have fun arguing over which is better while I enjoy all three.
    Odog4ever and MFmonster like this.
    05-23-2013 04:03 PM
  11. Reflexx's Avatar
    I don't like the thought that Microsoft had the POTENTIAL to track me in any way with this thing. It might not be the "Big Brother" spying you're thinking I mean, but they are considering the use of the tech to track what users are doing in some way, and that doesn't sit well with me.

    If you use a smart phone you are being tracked, even if you turn off location, i don't like it either, but we cant get away from this.
    If you're just worried about POTENTIAL, then technology in general is not going to be your friend.
    05-23-2013 04:22 PM
  12. Ridemyscooter86's Avatar
    yeah, if you're worried about the kinect spying on you then you shouldn't use bing, google, yahoo, amazon, ebay, apple, oh wait...pretty much the entire internet....

    Seriously, that has got to be one of the worst reasons not to buy an xbox, I could understand if you said that the kinect was gimmicky and it looked like a childs toy, but to make the excuse that its going to spy on you, what about sony's 4 eye, its the same **** concept, so how can you say that one is going to spy on you and not the other, its a ludicrous argument.

    Also, the way they implemented the kinect on the xbox one looks fantastic, sure it was a demo, but if it even works close to how they showed it, it will be awesome. Also the fact that it integrates as a set top box, while not a feature I would use, would be an awesome thing to have for somebody that does have digital cable. Its one less box to have on your tv stand. Also, I really like the force feedback in the controllers and that the controller is relatively unchanged, if it isn't broken, then don't fix it...
    Odog4ever likes this.
    05-23-2013 04:31 PM
  13. Ridemyscooter86's Avatar
    I will be a proud owner of an Xbox One, Playstation 4 and a Wii U. Everyone else can have fun arguing over which is better while I enjoy all three.
    but you forgot about the best one: PC!!!!!!! :)
    baaahthesheep likes this.
    05-23-2013 04:32 PM
  14. AaHaa's Avatar
    I will be a proud owner of an Xbox One, Playstation 4 and a Wii U. Everyone else can have fun arguing over which is better while I enjoy all three.
    I'm starting my own game company soon (I'll need you guys' help with a Windows 8/Phone game soon!!) so I'm thinking about justifying buying all three as well (you know, say it is because I need to "research every platform"). But, I'll probably use my Xbox One as entertainment/media center device. So the WiiU and PS4 will be empty, except for the games I put in them... And the media-parts of those two machines will seem like barren wastelands... Don't you have a problem with that? To me it feels like you've got three kids and you're spoiling one of them, while giving the last two only scraps :P
    05-23-2013 04:34 PM
  15. enthuz's Avatar
    The funny thing is that none of this has been finalized yet. Of course all of it is on the table so anything is possible, but nothing is known yet...apparently not even inside MS across departments. MS is in the business to make a profit, so they will do what is right for the majority and still push us forward.

    The whole tracking thing is funny too, because we have been tracked every since technology came into existence. Heck I used to do it for a living.

    The X1 will not fit everyone's needs nor desires, but it is a major step forward as an entertainment system. Society as a majority is demanding more from their devices and game consoles are no different. I like that if I'm on the X1 playing, then I don't have to manually switch over to catch a show, skype a friend, etc. I can just speak it and it does it instantly.

    I am a Gold member so I will have an internet connection, but when I'm on a camping trip, I'm sure they will allow the playing of non-online gaming. This was addressed by someone at MS, but was still worded vaguely. However they said that more will be revealed/discussed at E3 and then the rest will be released afterwards as the final software policies are signed off.

    Like someone stated, I too will own both the PS4 and X1...sorry I can't join you on the Wii U...so I don't think one system is moving in opposite direction of the other. They are both moving toward the entertainment system market, but with different approaches, which in a couple of years will be even more similar as a lot of this is software based. As for gameplay and graphics, this has yet to be determined. Of course on paper the PS4 should have the edge, but how often have we seen this end up not being the case in real life use? Besides the 2nd SKU releases of both systems will truly show how each will hold up. Remember that both system support 3D and up to 4K, so I think they will each do just fine.
    05-23-2013 06:09 PM
  16. trivor's Avatar
    But the 360 was successful.
    Depends on your definition of successful - even though MS has sold 77 million in 8 years I still don't think they've made money on it.
    05-23-2013 08:46 PM
  17. Ridemyscooter86's Avatar
    Depends on your definition of successful - even though MS has sold 77 million in 8 years I still don't think they've made money on it.
    well on the physical console, no. With the games, I'm sure they have, why would they keep it up for like 10+ years if that weren't the case, only a company with bad business would go into a market segment and not make money, and I'll give you a hint, microsoft is anything but bad at business. Sure they've made a couple missteps along the way with their other products, but overall are a very successful company.
    05-23-2013 09:07 PM
  18. TonyDedrick's Avatar
    I personally feel the mandatory Kinnect is lame. Really should be optional
    05-23-2013 09:15 PM
  19. spaulagain's Avatar
    Depends on your definition of successful - even though MS has sold 77 million in 8 years I still don't think they've made money on it.
    I don't think you understand how these companies make money from game consoles. The consoles almost always cost more to produce then they are sold for. Just like computer retail stores often sell computers for at cost or even below cost. This is/was especially true for PS3 and Xbox 360.

    However, they make their money from the peripherals and games. With each game sold, MS takes a percentage. They also can make money off accessories like controllers. In Microsoft's case, they also make money through XB Live subscriptions and gamer points.

    The Xbox is an extremely successful product for them, it took them a while to get there though.
    05-23-2013 09:16 PM
  20. Robert Carpenter's Avatar
    I personally feel the mandatory Kinnect is lame. Really should be optional
    Completely disagree. As a developer myself, you try to make sure you don't utilize api's and technology that isn't available to everyone. Making it standard is a huge leap forward. It gives much more incentive to use Kinect to create a more immersive experience.

    It allows developers to be innovative. And to be honest, there's a good chance a game is going to come along and introduce a Kinect immersive feature that ultimately becomes a standard feature for it's genre.
    05-24-2013 01:10 AM
  21. TonyDedrick's Avatar
    Completely disagree. As a developer myself, you try to make sure you don't utilize api's and technology that isn't available to everyone. Making it standard is a huge leap forward. It gives much more incentive to use Kinect to create a more immersive experience.

    It allows developers to be innovative. And to be honest, there's a good chance a game is going to come along and introduce a Kinect immersive feature that ultimately becomes a standard feature for it's genre.

    And that's all well and good. I'm not knocking or suggesting the Kinnect not be taken seriously in general. I think it has it place. Heck, I have one myself (found it used on $50 on Amazon and its another way for me to see my nieces in California. Dance Central is fun too). I chose to wait til it made sense to buy something that wasn't really living up to its potential.

    Granted, no one has to use it if they choose not to. But I also think it should be something that can be included at the consumers discretion, especially IF the inclusion of an additional peripheral affects the price or not. Just my opinion as a potential buyer.
    05-24-2013 08:36 AM
  22. CaptDjob's Avatar
    And that's all well and good. I'm not knocking or suggesting the Kinnect not be taken seriously in general. I think it has it place. Heck, I have one myself (found it used on $50 on Amazon and its another way for me to see my nieces in California. Dance Central is fun too). I chose to wait til it made sense to buy something that wasn't really living up to its potential.
    Well, I think that new Kinect is completely different from old one because it can really identify you as a certain person (or does present gen Kinect do same, I don't know because I don't have it). All these demos where it can say whether you sit left or right side of your friend and splitting screen always right are really cool stuff. Who wouldn't want these kind of live -easing features.
    When watching film, I really like the idea of auto pause (that of course could be disabled if people don't want it to be used) when going to frigde.

    All small stuff is where I see lots of potential.

    Changing gameplay itself is different story, but why not include for example peek -function to FPS when hiding behind corner? I doesn't mean you have to wave your head like crazy, just leaning left or right slightly. This would be small, but still great addition to gameplay and still you could just sit on a sofa and play the game as usual.

    There could be "shortcut" gestures to go directly where you want without pushing buttons and waiting menus to load. Something simple. Don't like it, don't use it. And I agree that when everybody has Kinect, developers will look the possibilities it creates with new eyes. And assuming the life expectation of xbox one is close to 10years, I think there will be something really interesting features just because they now made Kinect a mandatory accessory for everyone.

    I will buy xbox one as soon as I can.
    05-24-2013 09:10 AM
  23. martinmc78's Avatar
    Well, I think that new Kinect is completely different from old one because it can really identify you as a certain person (or does present gen Kinect do same, I don't know because I don't have it). All these demos where it can say whether you sit left or right side of your friend and splitting screen always right are really cool stuff. Who wouldn't want these kind of live -easing features.
    When watching film, I really like the idea of auto pause (that of course could be disabled if people don't want it to be used) when going to frigde.

    All small stuff is where I see lots of potential.

    Changing gameplay itself is different story, but why not include for example peek -function to FPS when hiding behind corner? I doesn't mean you have to wave your head like crazy, just leaning left or right slightly. This would be small, but still great addition to gameplay and still you could just sit on a sofa and play the game as usual.

    There could be "shortcut" gestures to go directly where you want without pushing buttons and waiting menus to load. Something simple. Don't like it, don't use it. And I agree that when everybody has Kinect, developers will look the possibilities it creates with new eyes. And assuming the life expectation of xbox one is close to 10years, I think there will be something really interesting features just because they now made Kinect a mandatory accessory for everyone.

    I will buy xbox one as soon as I can.
    The current gen Kinect will sign you in by facial recognition but its hit and miss - the lighting has to be just right and if your too close or too far or wearing baggy clothes it wont recognise you. Even when it does pick you up, the sign in can take longer than it should.

    If it works practically instantly as was shown on Tuesday then I will be happy.
    05-24-2013 09:27 AM
  24. enthuz's Avatar
    I think that Sony and MS should bundle their sensors with the systems. That would make it better for all developers. As long as the price is reasonable, then it is all a mute point. They will make up their costs elsewhere like always.
    05-24-2013 11:26 AM
  25. Coreldan's Avatar
    I do hope that Sony does this too with PS4, cos I dont have faith in developers seeing the extra effort for XOne alone if Sony doesn't have a dependable sensor with every system too. That said, even without it, I'm happy with the Kinect being there, but naturally I'd also hope as many games as possible take use of it.
    05-24-2013 11:38 AM
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