05-29-2013 02:21 PM
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  1. Reflexx's Avatar
    And that's all well and good. I'm not knocking or suggesting the Kinnect not be taken seriously in general. I think it has it place. Heck, I have one myself (found it used on $50 on Amazon and its another way for me to see my nieces in California. Dance Central is fun too). I chose to wait til it made sense to buy something that wasn't really living up to its potential.

    Granted, no one has to use it if they choose not to. But I also think it should be something that can be included at the consumers discretion, especially IF the inclusion of an additional peripheral affects the price or not. Just my opinion as a potential buyer.
    If it's not ALWAYS included, then devs won't develop for it because they won't know if someone has it.
    05-24-2013 11:43 AM
  2. Storl's Avatar
    Walk in scream xbox on, do blah.. i mean seriously this amount of convience alone makes the Kinect wothwhile to have on the X1, you do not have to pickup your controller, press your xbox button and then navigate to whathever you want, instead it just does whatever you tell it so while you are still picking up your controller it can already show you something, instead of nothing! It's a huge boost of added convienence completely worth it.
    Also about gaming, if the Kinect is a requirement then games can have ridiculous simple options like "Pause game when walking away", it's pretty simple and you can even use your controller to pause it but it's a step you might not even need if it's just pausing on it's own, there are many simple scenarios where the Kinect can be useful even without weird hand movements.
    05-24-2013 01:21 PM
  3. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Walk in scream xbox on, do blah.. i mean seriously this amount of convience alone makes the Kinect wothwhile to have on the X1, you do not have to pickup your controller, press your xbox button and then navigate to whathever you want, instead it just does whatever you tell it so while you are still picking up your controller it can already show you something, instead of nothing! It's a huge boost of added convienence completely worth it.
    Also about gaming, if the Kinect is a requirement then games can have ridiculous simple options like "Pause game when walking away", it's pretty simple and you can even use your controller to pause it but it's a step you might not even need if it's just pausing on it's own, there are many simple scenarios where the Kinect can be useful even without weird hand movements.
    Convenience doesn't always defeat awkwardness, though. It might be easier to tell the Xbox to do things, but I simply wouldn't want to do so in a room of people, even by myself. I just don't like talking to inanimate objects like that. It's the same reason I've never used voice search on my smartphones, or things of that nature.
    05-24-2013 01:56 PM
  4. Coreldan's Avatar
    Convenience doesn't always defeat awkwardness, though. It might be easier to tell the Xbox to do things, but I simply wouldn't want to do so in a room of people, even by myself. I just don't like talking to inanimate objects like that. It's the same reason I've never used voice search on my smartphones, or things of that nature.
    It's also a cultural/generational thing. The next generation of gamers 10-15 years from here might have zero issues with talking to inanimate objects like the Kinect or Google glass.

    I'm pretty sure people felt awkward talking to mobile phones when they came with others around etc as well. But yes, I agree, for the same reasons I wouldnt consider products like Google glass or which is why I don't use any of the voice recognition stuff on smartphones as well. Kinect might be different if I'm home alone or with people close to me (like family, wife and kids kinda thing), I probably wouldn't feel too awkward saying Xbox on and a few other simple commands but most things I'd still just do with the controller. But if I can just say "xbox on" and have both the xbox and my TV go on with the right channel/input etc, I'm definitely gonna do that rather than messing around with power buttons and several remotes :D
    05-24-2013 02:03 PM
  5. Mystictrust's Avatar
    And that's all well and good. I'm not knocking or suggesting the Kinnect not be taken seriously in general. I think it has it place. Heck, I have one myself (found it used on $50 on Amazon and its another way for me to see my nieces in California. Dance Central is fun too). I chose to wait til it made sense to buy something that wasn't really living up to its potential.

    Granted, no one has to use it if they choose not to. But I also think it should be something that can be included at the consumers discretion, especially IF the inclusion of an additional peripheral affects the price or not. Just my opinion as a potential buyer.
    You might be interested in an article by Ars Technica, where they interviewed the "general manager of Redmond Game Studios and Platforms" Matt Booty. I'll provide a quote, but the article shows their perspective and is a good read (primarily, the article is about offloading processing-intensive tasks to the cloud):

    "On the gaming side, Booty argued that packing a depth-sensing camera in with the system could help get controller-free, full-motion gaming out of the small niche it currently occupies. "Because it is known to always be there, because it is a fixed performance spec, because it is something you can depend on, I think developers are going to find all kinds of new things to do with it because they don’t have to worry about it being a unique accessory or something that only a small portion of the user base has," he said."

    I imagine they will be HEAVILY subsidizing it this time around to clock the console in at a good price point. The Xbox One can't operate without it and must be bundled, so, if they allowed it to skyrocket the price then consumers would be more turned off by a high price than anything else. There's even market speculation that both Xbox One and PS4 will clock in at cheaper prices than their predecessors launched with. I'll believe it when I see it, but I highly doubt either will be going with the $600 disaster that Sony did with the PS3.
    05-24-2013 02:05 PM
  6. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    It's also a cultural/generational thing. The next generation of gamers 10-15 years from here might have zero issues with talking to inanimate objects like the Kinect or Google glass.

    I'm pretty sure people felt awkward talking to mobile phones when they came with others around etc as well. But yes, I agree, for the same reasons I wouldnt consider products like Google glass or which is why I don't use any of the voice recognition stuff on smartphones as well. Kinect might be different if I'm home alone or with people close to me (like family, wife and kids kinda thing), I probably wouldn't feel too awkward saying Xbox on and a few other simple commands but most things I'd still just do with the controller. But if I can just say "xbox on" and have both the xbox and my TV go on with the right channel/input etc, I'm definitely gonna do that rather than messing around with power buttons and several remotes :D
    Basic command, I agree. However, I don't see the Kinect ever working out for online play and such. I mean, who wants to be in party chat yelling at A.I. teammates to attack a target? One thing I would enjoy myself, though, is if they implement sports strategies. I'd love for the next MLB game to have the ability to change a baseball team's defense. It's an annoyance to do with the D-Pad in MLB 2K games now. Simply saying "Double Play," would be nice, rather than hitting the D-Pad, then cycling through a bunch of infield alignments.
    05-24-2013 03:42 PM
  7. Steven Garrigus's Avatar
    Microsoft's secret weapon over Sony is the Azure Cloud. They will be able to provide unique game experiences with Azure computing that Sony won't be able to match.
    And what about gamer's who don't have access to Azure? Maybe they don't have high-speed internet. Maybe they are stuck on dial-up or satellite. I guess they are just F!cked? What about when developer-X decides to end support for a game? I guess all those games that required Cloud-processing become expensive coasters? Sports games where support ends when the next annual release comes out? No man, any way you slice it-this sucks.

    Microsoft: Selling one Playstation 4 at a time through each nonsensical decision.
    05-26-2013 04:24 PM
  8. Coreldan's Avatar
    And what about gamer's who don't have access to Azure? Maybe they don't have high-speed internet. Maybe they are stuck on dial-up or satellite. I guess they are just F!cked? What about when developer-X decides to end support for a game? I guess all those games that required Cloud-processing become expensive coasters? Sports games where support ends when the next annual release comes out? No man, any way you slice it-this sucks.

    Microsoft: Selling one Playstation 4 at a time through each nonsensical decision.
    Maybe PS4 should operate on a battery.. not all residences have stable electricity.
    05-26-2013 04:53 PM
  9. Reflexx's Avatar
    And what about gamer's who don't have access to Azure? Maybe they don't have high-speed internet. Maybe they are stuck on dial-up or satellite. I guess they are just F!cked? What about when developer-X decides to end support for a game? I guess all those games that required Cloud-processing become expensive coasters? Sports games where support ends when the next annual release comes out? No man, any way you slice it-this sucks.

    Microsoft: Selling one Playstation 4 at a time through each nonsensical decision.
    You could wait until E3 when there is at least the chance your questions could be answered.
    05-26-2013 04:54 PM
  10. Steven Garrigus's Avatar
    Maybe PS4 should operate on a battery.. not all residences have stable electricity.
    Well, 77 million Xbox 360 consoles sold. Around 42 million registered Xbox Live accounts. It doesn't take a genius to see that a SIGNIFICANT portion of the Xbox 360 userbase is either unable or unwilling to go online. Do you think it wise to alienate (roughly) 40% of your current userbase by excluding them from the ability to buy & use your new console?

    As for your smartass "stable electricity" comment, I'm happy that you live in an area where you have fast, unlimited, reliable high speed internet. Unfortunately, a big chunk of the world's population doesn't have this convenience. High speed internet doesn't come within 10 miles of my home in rural Missouri. Just recently, 4G LTE wireless became available from a local company but as typical with these types of service, there are download caps per month that aren't very gracious or forgiving.
    05-26-2013 09:31 PM
  11. Steven Garrigus's Avatar
    You could wait until E3 when there is at least the chance your questions could be answered.
    I am waiting for E3. If it's anything like the last 3 or 4 E3's, I'm sure we are in for more disappointment from Microsoft. But I am holding out hope. But don't you find it a bit disheartening that every single MS exec has something different to say? That there is no clear-cut answers? That everything they say is vague and shrouded in mystery? I would think that a multi-trilion dollar company would have their plan laid out in stone when the new system is coming out in from 4-6 months from now.

    I believe the reality is Microsoft didn't expect the $hitstorm that has hit and they don't know how to deal with it.
    05-26-2013 09:35 PM
  12. Reflexx's Avatar
    I am waiting for E3. If it's anything like the last 3 or 4 E3's, I'm sure we are in for more disappointment from Microsoft.

    Yeah. Because Microsoft was announcing a new console for each of the last few E3's, right?

    But I am holding out hope. But don't you find it a bit disheartening that every single MS exec has something different to say? That there is no clear-cut answers? That everything they say is vague and shrouded in mystery? I would think that a multi-trilion dollar company would have their plan laid out in stone when the new system is coming out in from 4-6 months from now.
    Then you're not familiar how big business often works.

    Things are likely very much in flux, with detailed not hammerded down. And several proposals are likely floating around.

    High level execs often dont get involved with the small details, but instead, steer a general direction. And then they get involved more later in the process.
    I believe the reality is Microsoft didn't expect the $hitstorm that has hit and they don't know how to deal with it.
    I agree with this. They vastly underestimated the foolishness of people on the internet.
    Odog4ever, enthuz and Vallos like this.
    05-26-2013 11:35 PM
  13. Odog4ever's Avatar

    I believe the reality is Microsoft didn't expect the $hitstorm that has hit and they don't know how to deal with it.
    Thing is Microsoft knew exactly how to handle the situation. SOP for them is to say "We do not comment on rumors and speculation". But for some odd reason MS provided press access to top level execs who completely went of the reservation!!! Pretty sure several PR people are getting fired over this.
    Note Sony did not provide the same access for their top level execs after the PS4 reveal which is looking like a genius move in comparison.

    It is very clear that a lot of this back-end stuff is still in flux because there are parties outside of Microsoft all have to agree (retailers and game publishers). MS execs should have all been coached to either provide a future date were they could provide more concrete answers and give a no comment. But instead we got top-level guys regurgitating the last proposal they read (of several) and how they "think" the system is going to work even though they didn't program/engineer a damn thing.
    05-26-2013 11:52 PM
  14. Reflexx's Avatar
    Thing is Microsoft knew exactly how to handle the situation. SOP for them is to say "We do not comment on rumors and speculation". But for some odd reason MS provided press access to top level execs who completely went of the reservation!!! Pretty sure several PR people are getting fired over this.
    Note Sony did not provide the same access for their top level execs after the PS4 reveal which is looking like a genius move in comparison.
    Very good point.

    MS execs try to be all friendly and chummy with the gaming media and don't realize how cut throat it is. They're not PR people.

    Sony keeps everyone away and you can only talk to PR pros.
    05-27-2013 12:26 AM
  15. enthuz's Avatar
    Yeah. Because Microsoft was announcing a new console for each of the last few E3's, right?



    Then you're not familiar how big business often works.

    Things are likely very much in flux, with detailed not hammerded down. And several proposals are likely floating around.

    High level execs often dont get involved with the small details, but instead, steer a general direction. And then they get involved more later in the process.

    I agree with this. They vastly underestimated the foolishness of people on the internet.
    Why must you be so logical in thought on a forum? I have been explaining the same points on many other forums. It's good to know that the world has people that understand how business R&D goes up to launch. I am an engineer that has worked on many R&D teams on devices many of you have in your home or office today. A lot of things are not settled until weeks before first sale. Also every team/department doesn't know everything about a product release. It was the fault of MS to not send out an internal white paper on what to discuss and what to defer, since they were allowing such open contact with staff.
    05-27-2013 01:02 PM
  16. Steven Garrigus's Avatar
    Thing is Microsoft knew exactly how to handle the situation. SOP for them is to say "We do not comment on rumors and speculation". But for some odd reason MS provided press access to top level execs who completely went of the reservation!!! Pretty sure several PR people are getting fired over this.
    Note Sony did not provide the same access for their top level execs after the PS4 reveal which is looking like a genius move in comparison.

    It is very clear that a lot of this back-end stuff is still in flux because there are parties outside of Microsoft all have to agree (retailers and game publishers). MS execs should have all been coached to either provide a future date were they could provide more concrete answers and give a no comment. But instead we got top-level guys regurgitating the last proposal they read (of several) and how they "think" the system is going to work even though they didn't program/engineer a damn thing.
    I thought that was what the big reveal a week ago was for. The fact is aside from gaming press being cutthroat, internet whiners whining and top-shelf MS executives being clueless and contradicting one another, gaming is a business and a cutthroat one at that. We are going to see Sony and Microsoft going head-to-head with Nintendo in the wings. If Microsoft doesn't bring their A-game and appease the MAJORITY of the gamers, said gamers will leave for greener pastures.

    While we are on the subject of rumors, word is that Sony is planning on changing Playstation Plus for the better while keeping online play and other features that Microsoft charges for free. As Sony lost gamers from the PS2 era to Xbox 360, the chance remains for the same to happen this time from Xbox One to the PS4. As much as people like to rag on the PS3, it has surpassed Xbox 360 in worldwide sales, and that's with Microsoft having a one-year lead uncontested.

    Microsoft needs to have a kick-*** system, a clear path of what they are going to do and the good will of the game buying consumer. Right now, they aren't doing that. They have mass confusion, conflicting stories, a focus on everything besides games and now-TWO governments in Australia and Germany investigating their new system. Even the staunchest Xbox supporter has to see that these are all bad signs.
    05-27-2013 02:21 PM
  17. Coreldan's Avatar
    As much as people like to rag on the PS3, it has surpassed Xbox 360 in worldwide sales, and that's with Microsoft having a one-year lead uncontested.
    Naturally the reasons behind this could be many, personally I think it was largely due to it's off-gaming capability as a blu-ray player. I know more people who bought the PS3 with at least 50% of the reason being the blu-ray player than people who bought it for purely gaming.

    Then again, 360 had considerably more games out there as well as games sold, which could support the blu-ray theory more or less.

    Either way, both consoles were extremely succesful (including Wii, but thats perhaps outside this discussion) and when the competition was that tight, there's not any obvious "console x was obviously more succesful" kinda consensus to be made. It's gonna be an interesting upcoming weeks to see how MS redeems itself with the gaming-side of things and how Sony will redeem itself as something other than just a gaming console, I don't think at this day and age that they would go for no other features than the gaming part :P And more so, it's gonna be an interesting few years to see how each console takes off. I'm pretty sure though that both will be extremely popular and succesful this time around too with each console having the general gaming console feel but also perhaps their more specialized niche market.
    05-27-2013 02:31 PM
  18. Steven Garrigus's Avatar
    Naturally the reasons behind this could be many, personally I think it was largely due to it's off-gaming capability as a blu-ray player. I know more people who bought the PS3 with at least 50% of the reason being the blu-ray player than people who bought it for purely gaming. Then again, 360 had considerably more games out there as well as games sold, which could support the blu-ray theory more or less. Either way, both consoles were extremely succesful (including Wii, but thats perhaps outside this discussion) and when the competition was that tight, there's not any obvious "console x was obviously more succesful" kinda consensus to be made. It's gonna be an interesting upcoming weeks to see how MS redeems itself with the gaming-side of things and how Sony will redeem itself as something other than just a gaming console, I don't think at this day and age that they would go for no other features than the gaming part :P And more so, it's gonna be an interesting few years to see how each console takes off. I'm pretty sure though that both will be extremely popular and succesful this time around too with each console having the general gaming console feel but also perhaps their more specialized niche market.
    Sony's problem was Ken Kutaragi and arrogance. Kutaragi shouting how people should just be grateful for the privelage to own a PS3. Then the outlandish price of $600 at launch, compared to the fully-loaded 360 for $400. Arrogance cost Sony dearly. Microsoft is displaying that smug attitude & arrogance right now.

    I don't think we need to fear what Sony will offer. The PS3 supports most of the same non-gaming functions as the 360 does. Netfix, Hulu, music, etc. What we have is the PS4 and Sony focusing on games and courting the indies. Meanwhile, Microsoft has thrown out the usual "Hey, we have Call of Duty maps exclusive for a month!" and alienating indie developers. I'm as big a Halo fan as they come, but if Microsoft takes this route and doesn't right their proverbial ship, I'm going to move along.

    Thank you for a well thought-out reply. It was good to talk with you.
    05-27-2013 02:52 PM
  19. Coreldan's Avatar
    I wouldn't say it cost em very dearly seeing the numbers. But I guess it was also offset by the early RRoDs on 360s which I believe haunted a big number of early 360s.

    Just as a disclaimer, I'm not set on buying either one yet, but if I will it would likely be the X1, mostly for the potential integration with my PC, tablet and phone (all Windows 8 of different variations :D). It would also depend if the TV part of X1 would also work outside US with just "normal tuners", but at the very minimum the HDMI-passthru would need to work so that I dont have to switch inputs or cables and can just go "Xbox, TV" and then use the tuners own remote from there, as opposed to having to get the TVs remote and switch input.. It's not a big thing for me, as I watch little TV, but my fiancee does so I do still value the feature.
    05-27-2013 02:57 PM
  20. Reflexx's Avatar
    I don't see the claimed arrogance from MS right now. I see them saying, "We're gamers like you." and "More will be revealed at E3."

    The arrogance I see is from the gaming press and fans, who think they know everything and make assumptions that may not be true.
    Robert Carpenter likes this.
    05-27-2013 03:07 PM
  21. tatotiburon's Avatar
    the answer is push back the advance technology because there will be people that can't get it? why do you bring cloud techonlogy to consoles if there are people without internet?? why do you dare to bring this thing called "internet" if the are millions of cumputers without modems???
    05-27-2013 03:21 PM
  22. Storl's Avatar
    the answer is push back the advance technology because there will be people that can't get it? why do you bring cloud techonlogy to consoles if there are people without internet?? why do you dare to bring this thing called "internet" if the are millions of cumputers without modems???
    Sadly this seems how most people look at it currently and also completely ignore the fact that the PS4 and X1 are once again planned for a plus TEN YEARS lifecycle.
    05-27-2013 03:59 PM
  23. Odog4ever's Avatar
    the answer is push back the advance technology because there will be people that can't get it? why do you bring cloud techonlogy to consoles if there are people without internet?? why do you dare to bring this thing called "internet" if the are millions of cumputers without modems???
    Well it kind how like MS was on the forefront and built a broadband adapter into the Xbox classic. How many people had broadband internet back in 2001? Know its just a given that you can play with friends over the internet and you can download games and other content.

    The cloud focus is the same thing. 10 years from now we are going to look back and think how did we survive without cloud gaming.
    05-27-2013 04:09 PM
  24. smoledman's Avatar
    Sadly this seems how most people look at it currently and also completely ignore the fact that the PS4 and X1 are once again planned for a plus TEN YEARS lifecycle.
    10 years is way too long. At best we're talking about a 5-year lifecycle until the next great hardware design. Probably Intel-based.
    05-27-2013 04:13 PM
  25. smoledman's Avatar
    Well it kind how like MS was on the forefront and built a broadband adapter into the Xbox classic. How many people had broadband internet back in 2001? Know its just a given that you can play with friends over the internet and you can download games and other content.

    The cloud focus is the same thing. 10 years from now we are going to look back and think how did we survive without cloud gaming.
    But don't you know 90% of XBox owners don't have an internet connection? :))))
    05-27-2013 04:13 PM
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