06-14-2013 09:49 AM
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  1. sinime's Avatar
    If the digital download price is the same as buying a disc, why would anyone download a game? With digital, you have no means possible of reselling the game, which is still up to the games developer to enable/handle.
    06-07-2013 10:52 AM
  2. ncxcstud's Avatar
    If the digital download price is the same as buying a disc, why would anyone download a game? With digital, you have no means possible of reselling the game, which is still up to the games developer to enable/handle.
    I thought I heard a rumor that you could sell it back to Microsoft if you wish... You couldn't 'gift/sell it' to a friend, but you could give it back to MS for a stated fee. Not sure if that one was true.. but you never know...

    Some people just don't sell their games back so it wouldn't matter either way. Doesn't seem to be that big of a deal on the PC front with Steam and Origin... since I don't believe you can sell those games either...
    06-07-2013 10:55 AM
  3. Reflexx's Avatar
    But, costs are also higher because they get no piece of the pie with resells... now they do...
    We'll see if that's enough.
    06-07-2013 10:58 AM
  4. ncxcstud's Avatar
    I'd hope/love it to be Winning Guy. It could go a long way to appease potential buyers...

    Though, I think the actual amount of people 'angered' by these new things are fewer than the people excited about things like the family share stuff.. (which is awesome btw...)
    06-07-2013 11:01 AM
  5. theefman's Avatar
    I think there are going to be a bunch of upset Sony fans when they announce similar restrictions. At this point all Sony has said is no constant online required....same could be said about the One. And drm left up to publisher, which is the same as the One.
    I think its wishful thinking. Unless Sony has basically lied in its statements it wont have the same DRM restrictions the X1 has for lending games which is a key point for gamers and they definitely seem to not be requiring any online connectivity to play games. These are going to be the headline features people see and what will turn people away from the X1.
    06-07-2013 11:09 AM
  6. HeyCori's Avatar
    I'd hope/love it to be Winning Guy. It could go a long way to appease potential buyers...

    Though, I think the actual amount of people 'angered' by these new things are fewer than the people excited about things like the family share stuff.. (which is awesome btw...)
    Yes, I think the impact of this is being seriously underestimated. Having access to 10 people's games expands my "collection" TREMENDOUSLY. Why Buy Halo 5 when I can just wait until my friend is done playing his copy and then I can play? A shared collection will dramatically change people's buying habits.
    06-07-2013 11:11 AM
  7. martinmc78's Avatar
    I think its wishful thinking. Unless Sony has basically lied in its statements it wont have the same DRM restrictions the X1 has for lending games which is a key point for gamers and they definitely seem to not be requiring any online connectivity to play games. These are going to be the headline features people see and what will turn people away from the X1.
    What would be typical of Sony though is to say one thing then 6 months after the launch remove the feature once people start exploiting it.

    If I were to ever buy a PS4 I would get a lawyer to read through the SCEE terms of use.
    06-07-2013 11:19 AM
  8. ncxcstud's Avatar
    I think its wishful thinking. Unless Sony has basically lied in its statements it wont have the same DRM restrictions the X1 has for lending games which is a key point for gamers and they definitely seem to not be requiring any online connectivity to play games. These are going to be the headline features people see and what will turn people away from the X1.
    Haven't they already (technically) said the exact thing that Microsoft has said? That the DRM stuff is up to the publisher? Which is essentially what MS is doing. The only thing Sony has unequivocally said is that the PS4 isn't 'always connected.' But, then again.. the XBOX One isn't technically 'always-connected' as well. Sure, there is the 24 hour check, but Sony could have that too. Who knows. They haven't said either way.

    Sony is getting a pass for not saying ANYTHING and letting Microsoft take the heat. But, I have a hard time believing that Sony isn't doing something similar to Microsoft....
    06-07-2013 11:26 AM
  9. theefman's Avatar
    What would be typical of Sony though is to say one thing then 6 months after the launch remove the feature once people start exploiting it.

    If I were to ever buy a PS4 I would get a lawyer to read through the SCEE terms of use.
    Its possible but even then its a good strategy because they would have benefitted from the negativity around the X1 but I dont see them doing that. I would imagine anything like whats being discussed would be in place from day one.
    06-07-2013 11:30 AM
  10. martinmc78's Avatar
    Its possible but even then its a good strategy because they would have benefitted from the negativity around the X1 but I dont see them doing that. I would imagine anything like whats being discussed would be in place from day one.
    Didn't work out too well for them on the PS3 though did it. When they removed functions prosecuted Hotz and got smashed by anonymous I know first hand 15 people that dumped their PS3's in favour of 360's

    Doesn't take much to extrapolate my 15 people I know locally into globally to come up with a big drop in users.
    06-07-2013 11:34 AM
  11. theefman's Avatar
    Haven't they already (technically) said the exact thing that Microsoft has said? That the DRM stuff is up to the publisher? Which is essentially what MS is doing. The only thing Sony has unequivocally said is that the PS4 isn't 'always connected.' But, then again.. the XBOX One isn't technically 'always-connected' as well. Sure, there is the 24 hour check, but Sony could have that too. Who knows. They haven't said either way.

    Sony is getting a pass for not saying ANYTHING and letting Microsoft take the heat. But, I have a hard time believing that Sony isn't doing something similar to Microsoft....
    What they said in the linked article is that there is no online requirement to play games so you would be able to play games offline if you want for any amount of time. With the X1 if you dont connect in a 24 hour period you cant even do that. Pretty big difference.

    Then there is the lending/giving of games to friends where Sony has said there are no restrictions. I think there are significant differences in these two scenarios, DRM implemented in the game by the publishers could turn out to be similar but these other two scenarios are the sticking points.

    Didn't work out too well for them on the PS3 though did it. When they removed functions prosecuted Hotz and got smashed by anonymous I know first hand 15 people that dumped their PS3's in favour of 360's
    I think it was the prosecution and espcially hacking that turned more people off the ps3, not the removal of features.
    06-07-2013 11:35 AM
  12. ncxcstud's Avatar
    The reason I see Sony doing something similar is that this appears to be something the publishers/developers have been pushing for, for quite sometime. Is Sony really going to say to developers/publishers, "We can't do that we're going to go another way." and the risk be that the developers/publishers respond with, "That's cool. We won't make games for your platform now. Since the protections for us that MS is willing to offer aren't here with you guys."

    Sony, apparently, lost a ton of money investing into the PS3. I find it hard to believe that they would position themselves in such a way that they WOULDN'T get the blockbuster 3rd party games. Being 'different' from the rest of the industry really hasn't worked into Nintendo's favor (from the 3rd party perspective). I don't see it working here either.

    But, we can moan and complain all we want, but the reality is, wherever the best GAMES are, people will flock to. If the system that Microsoft has put in place benefits the publisher/developers... than that's where the best games will go. The users will follow. Because its the games that matter...
    06-07-2013 11:37 AM
  13. ncxcstud's Avatar
    What they said in the linked article is that there is no online requirement to play games so you would be able to play games offline if you want for any amount of time. With the X1 if you dont connect in a 24 hour period you cant even do that. Pretty big difference.

    Then there is the lending/giving of games to friends where Sony has said there are no restrictions. I think there are significant differences in these two scenarios, DRM implemented in the game by the publishers could turn out to be similar but these other two scenarios are the sticking points.
    Sony said NO CONSTANT INTERNET requirement. The XBOX One doesn't require that either. His words can be interpreted either way.
    06-07-2013 11:43 AM
  14. theefman's Avatar
    The reason I see Sony doing something similar is that this appears to be something the publishers/developers have been pushing for, for quite sometime. Is Sony really going to say to developers/publishers, "We can't do that we're going to go another way." and the risk be that the developers/publishers respond with, "That's cool. We won't make games for your platform now. Since the protections for us that MS is willing to offer aren't here with you guys."

    Sony, apparently, lost a ton of money investing into the PS3. I find it hard to believe that they would position themselves in such a way that they WOULDN'T get the blockbuster 3rd party games. Being 'different' from the rest of the industry really hasn't worked into Nintendo's favor (from the 3rd party perspective). I don't see it working here either.

    But, we can moan and complain all we want, but the reality is, wherever the best GAMES are, people will flock to. If the system that Microsoft has put in place benefits the publisher/developers... than that's where the best games will go. The users will follow. Because its the games that matter...
    Its the online requirement and lending and trading games thats the issue and where Sony has explicitly said there wont be any restrictions. Microsoft's lend once rule is separate from any publisher DRM so if the game does not restrict trading the X1 game can only be given to someone once while PS4 games have no restriction.

    Sony said NO CONSTANT INTERNET requirement. The XBOX One doesn't require that either. His words can be interpreted either way.
    And after 24 hours without internet on both systems which one will still be able to play games? Its stated one way to emphasise "constant" but the functionality actually works out that you do need an internet connection on the X1 to play games.
    06-07-2013 11:45 AM
  15. HeyCori's Avatar
    Its the online requirement and lending and trading games thats the issue and where Sony has explicitly said there wont be any restrictions.
    Sony said they won't support DRM but Sony is still allowing DRM on the PS4.

    Sony Reaffirms that the Playstation 4 will not Utilize DRM
    “At a roundtable this morning, Sony's game studios chief, Shuhei Yoshida, told reporters that any requirement for users to register a game online in order to play it would be left to game publishers. Sony won't require that."
    06-07-2013 11:54 AM
  16. martinmc78's Avatar
    I think it was the prosecution and espcially hacking that turned more people off the ps3, not the removal of features.
    Removal of features led to the prosecution which led to the hacking. Chain of events. Bottom line is Sony didn't care much for the consequences and offered little to nothing for the inconvenience.
    06-07-2013 11:55 AM
  17. ncxcstud's Avatar
    Like I said, there has to be (call me an eternal optimist) a system in place that allows XBOX One users circumvent the 24 hour thing for those occasions that your internet goes down for more than 24 hours. Like I've said before - last week a storm literally ripped out my internet line and I was left without internet access for 4 or 5 days. If they state, "Oh yeah, BTW, in situations where your internet goes down for an extended period of time just use this two step process with your phone, or scan this code on your phone, etc... and all will be good."

    Inconvenient? Sure is. But, hopefully there will be a system in place.

    I love the Microsoft ecosystem (call me a fanboy if you will). But, I also have a PS3 that I really only use for movies. For the most part, I prefer the controller on the 360/XBOX One than I do the controller for the PS1/2/3/4. That and I like the games that Microsoft has as first party more than Sony's. Though, I did love the crap out of the Uncharted series (I own all 3 on the PS3).

    I'm not a doom and gloom person at all. It never is nearly as bad as people make it out to be. We'll see. Monday *SHOULD* explain a lot when Microsoft gets on stage and I look forward to hearing more info from Sony.
    06-07-2013 11:56 AM
  18. _Emi_'s Avatar
    I dont understand all the drama some people are making over this. especially when they are like "get a PC"... when PC has this kind of stuff all the time with examples like steam and origin, and well... you cant even resell those games! well... just look smartphones and tablets, you cant resell those games either, so why cant big publishers have a system to protect their games and business in consoles as well? I know its not the best thing, but you know some people pirate games or only buy used games, so a publisher doesn't get money from that. money in theory they should get specially when someone pirates the game.

    some people would say "but this sucks because some people don't have internet" but this is a modern console!! MODERN!!!! and just like other devices, like a smartphone, or tablet. it will not be a good experience with no internet! (im sure of that). because internet is required in today technology for a lot of things. so saying this shouldn't exist because some people wont have internet, its like saying, why is there so much technology when some people don't have electricity or my electricity sucks so technology shouldn't exist because I wouldn't enjoy it when my power is gone...
    but and too many things need internet today! its not like internet its unknown anymore. and people have access to it like really easily and cheap in a lot of cases (people commenting clearly have, because they need internet to do it)

    PS4 might not have a 24 hour checking, but do people really think PS4 wont have a system like this? or do you think publishers would be happy to hear Microsoft "cares" about them, but Sony doesn't care/help them? no!
    Publishers would probably tell sony to start doing the same and if they don't agree (pretending ps4 doesn't already have that, which I doubt they don't) publishers could go to Xbox One, and that means more games for Xbox One, and then more sales because its not like people will say "I wont get my favorite game in PS4, but I wont buy xbox one which has it now, because it requires me to connect to internet which I already plan to do anyway".
    06-07-2013 12:18 PM
  19. thed's Avatar
    Anyone who plays PC games could've seen this coming a long time ago. I think the PS4 is definitely going to have a system like this. Developers and publishers have been clamoring for a system like this for a long time and if Sony doesn't do something similar then the PS4 will be an afterthought for a lot of developers.

    The only thing I don't understand is why there's a need to check in every 24 hours. Why not just require a check when you're installing and then you're good to go after that? This is the way it works on Steam, and I think it works pretty well. I can't think of a reason to require a check in after the game's already installed. Am I missing something?
    06-07-2013 12:48 PM
  20. theeboredone's Avatar
    ...and I'm betting that Sony will give the publisher the ability to use DRM. I doubt that a publisher will make a game with DRM on one platform, but not another.
    ...Isn't that what I just said O_o?

    "Edit: I knew I read it somewhere. Sony will not be doing "Always Online" and any DRM issues will be left to the publishers."
    06-07-2013 12:51 PM
  21. theefman's Avatar
    Sony said they won't support DRM but Sony is still allowing DRM on the PS4.

    Sony Reaffirms that the Playstation 4 will not Utilize DRM
    “At a roundtable this morning, Sony's game studios chief, Shuhei Yoshida, told reporters that any requirement for users to register a game online in order to play it would be left to game publishers. Sony won't require that."
    This is separate from Microsoft's 24-hour online check in & lend once rule.
    No online check in to play offline: http://attackofthefanboy.com/news/ps...ed-mark-cerny/
    Last edited by theefman; 06-07-2013 at 01:06 PM.
    06-07-2013 12:52 PM
  22. HeyCori's Avatar
    This is separate from Microsoft's 24-hour online check in & lend once rule.
    The difference is that Microsoft has an official rule in play. Sony is saying they won't stop it. Even if Sony doesn't have a 24-hour online check, publishers can still limit/stop gamers from lending games out.
    06-07-2013 01:09 PM
  23. theefman's Avatar
    The difference is that Microsoft has an official rule in play. Sony is saying they won't stop it. Even if Sony doesn't have a 24-hour online check, publishers can still limit/stop gamers from lending games out.
    If a game is delivered with no restrictions for offline play Sony has no requirement to be online, the X1 does. If the game publisher has no restrictions on lending games, Microsoft has. Its a clear difference. Everyone is assuming game publishers will definitely add some DRM, but if they dont the X1 is more restrictive than the PS4.
    06-07-2013 01:15 PM
  24. sinime's Avatar
    I don't see how Sony can get away without some measure in place... If you can install a game and run it off HD with no disc, than just buy 1 copy of a game and share it with everyone in your city... Or does PS4 require the disc to play?

    I mean, the more I think about it, sounds like people online think the PS4 ships with an illegal mod chip already installed that is fully sanctioned by Sony and allows for you to rent a game for a day and continue playing it after returning the disc. That can't be right.
    Last edited by sinime; 06-07-2013 at 03:46 PM.
    06-07-2013 02:17 PM
  25. SnailUK's Avatar
    Like I said, there has to be (call me an eternal optimist) a system in place that allows XBOX One users circumvent the 24 hour thing for those occasions that your internet goes down for more than 24 hours
    I swear nobody has read the actual Microsoft press release. It says in big fat letters this can be done easily via mobile internet.

    Pretty much every article I've read across all the tech sites misses this vital information, or hides it at the bottom of the article, deliberately to prompt nerd rage.

    I honestly can't remember the last time I went 24 hours without access to the internet via Broadband, Wifi, or mobile broadband. Can't say i'm worried about the 24 hour timer.
    Robert Carpenter likes this.
    06-07-2013 03:33 PM
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