06-14-2013 08:49 AM
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  1. HeyCori's Avatar
    Info on used games straight from the horses mouth.

    http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license

    Here are our platform policies and capabilities for game licensing – all of which will be made available when Xbox One launches later this year:


    • Buy the way you want—disc or digital—on the same day: You’ll be able to buy disc-based games at traditional retailers or online through Xbox Live, on day of release. Discs will continue to be a great way to install your games quickly.
    • Access your entire games library from any Xbox One—no discs required: After signing in and installing,you can play any of your games from any Xbox One because a digital copy of your game is stored on your console and in the cloud. So, for example, while you are logged in at your friend’s house, you can play your games.
    • Share access to your games with everyone inside your home: Your friends and family, your guests and acquaintances get unlimited access to all of your games. Anyone can play your games on your console--regardless of whether you are logged in or their relationship to you.
    • Give your family access to your entire games library anytime, anywhere: Xbox One will enable new forms of access for families. Up to ten members of your family can log in and play from your shared games library on any Xbox One. Just like today, a family member can play your copy of Forza Motorsport at a friend’s house. Only now, they will see not just Forza, but all of your shared games. You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time.
    • Trade-in and resell your disc-based games: Today, some gamers choose to sell their old disc-based games back for cash and credit. We designed Xbox One so game publishers can enable you to trade in your games at participating retailers. Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers for enabling transfer of these games.
    • Give your games to friends: Xbox One is designed so game publishers can enable you to give your disc-based games to your friends. There are no fees charged as part of these transfers. There are two requirements: you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once.


    I see a lot of good stuff in there like having access to all your games from a friend's house. And trade-ins look like they will work similar to last gen with the added step (or possible annoyance) that games will have to be de-authorized from your account. I'm also glad to see that simply giving the game to a friend still works with the exception that they're on your friend's list. Though I still wonder how this will affect eBay sellers and local used game stores that aren't connected to some major database.

    Here's the rest

    http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/main
    vertigoOne likes this.
    06-06-2013 06:15 PM
  2. Reflexx's Avatar
    The negative is that there is the DRM check where a game has to check-in at least once in the past 24 hrs if you want to play it.

    That means that you can't play offline for more than 24 hrs.

    This won't affect me personally, but I could see how it could affect people with metered connections or people who just don't have internet; though that number is getting smaller and smaller.

    It looks like the Publishers will the ones that decide if their games are resellable. They also decide if they'll make any money off of the sale of the used game.

    I imagine that most Publishers will opt-in to making the game resellable, but they might make it so that you can't sell the game until 3-6 months after launch. Then, they'll want a flat fee for that sale: one that decreases with time.

    From general online news, it appears that MS is getting a fair number of exclusives. I bet that this policy is part of the reason they're getting those exclusives. Well, unless Sony is doing the same thing.

    That leads me to the timing of this announcement.

    They could have waited until E3. However, I bet they're expecting some a negative reception, so they're trying to get that done with before presenting all of the cool stuff on Monday.

    Also, if Sony has a similar policy, then when Sony announces it, it will take much of the wrath because it will be the most recent negative announcement.
    06-06-2013 06:29 PM
  3. theefman's Avatar
    As I said in the article comments, I dont mind these features but i think all this will push hardcore gamers to Sony. I just don't see these restrictions appealing to them, especially the online requirement.
    06-06-2013 06:32 PM
  4. Reflexx's Avatar
    As I said in the article comments, I dont mind these features but i think all this will push hardcore gamers to Sony. I just don't see these restrictions appealing to them, especially the online requirement.
    Most hardcore gamers are online.

    There will be a select few that will choose Sony just because they don't like the idea of DRM. There will also be a tiny amount that select Sony because they don't have an internet connection.

    This, of course, is with the assumption that Sony doesn't have DRM.

    Though, I'm sure that one of Microsoft's main pitches when approaching publishers is that they have greater control of their intellectual property. So MS may end up getting many more exclusives that otherwise would have been multi-platform.
    vertigoOne and a5cent like this.
    06-06-2013 06:35 PM
  5. HeyCori's Avatar
    Most hardcore gamers are online.



    This, of course, is with the assumption that Sony doesn't have DRM.
    I was gonna say that the ball's in Sony's court but really it's up to the publishers. If they decide to support MS because of the new trade in policies then Sony will likely have to follow suit.
    06-06-2013 06:41 PM
  6. ncxcstud's Avatar
    I was gonna say that the ball's in Sony's court but really it's up to the publishers. If they decide to support MS because of the new trade in policies then Sony will likely have to follow suit.
    I have a feeling that Sony has a similar process in mind. They just aren't telling anyone publicly yet because it would make them look bad too...

    What's interesting is that some people are 'all in' on Sony because they haven't said any of the same things that Microsoft has.

    However, Sony themselves haven't said ANYTHING to firmly state that what they're doing is OPPOSITE to what Microsoft is doing. So, they're getting a 'pass' just because they're silent, not that they are actually doing anything different...


    I'd think that if Sony was doing something different, they'd have told us by now.

    But, I could be totally wrong too. Who knows... E3 will (hopefully) explain a lot.
    curseoftheninja likes this.
    06-06-2013 07:01 PM
  7. vertigoOne's Avatar
    I cannot help but think that Microsoft left all of this a mystery on purpose, just to get a reaction so that they could gauge what the populace would and would not tolerate.

    Their solution seems very...middle ground.
    06-06-2013 07:03 PM
  8. MerlotC's Avatar
    For me it sounds like a great solution, especially the family share. I think that is amazing actually if I understand it correctly. So my whole library can be played by my son from his house on his account? I'm assuming not the same game at the same time I access it from my house but still pretty cool. I would guess the original console would take priority on log in if we were both trying to play the same game.
    06-06-2013 07:30 PM
  9. Steven Garrigus's Avatar
    I just have a bad feeling about alienating gamers who don't have dependable high-speed internet. And by alienating, I mean making it where buying a Xbox One would be pointless. I'm not jumping on the "PS4 for me!" bandwagon, but...what was wrong with just letting a buddy borrow a disc to play a game?

    What I'm least happy with is Microsoft being in cahoots with chains like Gamestop, controlling when & where I can get rid of my games. I prefer the eBay method as it allows me to get more than DOUBLE what Gamestop would offer me.
    06-06-2013 07:44 PM
  10. HeyCori's Avatar
    06-06-2013 08:47 PM
  11. dba415's Avatar
    For me it sounds like a great solution, especially the family share. I think that is amazing actually if I understand it correctly. So my whole library can be played by my son from his house on his account? I'm assuming not the same game at the same time I access it from my house but still pretty cool. I would guess the original console would take priority on log in if we were both trying to play the same game.
    I don't think so. If that was true there would be many people taking advantage of it with their friends and splitting the cost of games. Not sure how they will do it but they might require the actual disc in order to play a game that you have shared.
    06-06-2013 10:09 PM
  12. HeyCori's Avatar
    I think the biggest issue I haven't isn't with the policies but with the length of time. 24 hours? That's a bit harsh. A few days to a week would be more reasonable. And why only 1 trade per used game? Some games live and breathe on the used market. Imagine how many times Rock Band gets resold, or Madden. I'd be happier if publishers got a cut every time instead of limiting resells.
    Last edited by HeyCori; 06-07-2013 at 08:19 AM.
    DavidinCT likes this.
    06-06-2013 11:06 PM
  13. theeboredone's Avatar
    Yeah there is a minority of people with bad internet, but my main issue is with the used games aspect. It just irks me the wrong way. So does lending it to a friend.

    If I want to sell a game, it's bad enough that GameStop rips me off these days by giving me 25 bucks for a recent game, then turning it around and selling it for 55. I can't imagine what it would be if GS has to now pay partial fees to publishers. I always sold my games through Craig's List and even bought, because I know I could get the best value for my money. That option seems to have been eliminated, which disheartens me.

    I am also worried about rental businesses, mainly GameFly. MS has stated that there is no plans for immediate support in regards to rental services.

    Edit: I knew I read it somewhere. Sony will not be doing "Always Online" and any DRM issues will be left to the publishers.

    http://www.cinemablend.com/games/It-...One-56264.html
    06-06-2013 11:58 PM
  14. Coreldan's Avatar
    I don't think so. If that was true there would be many people taking advantage of it with their friends and splitting the cost of games. Not sure how they will do it but they might require the actual disc in order to play a game that you have shared.
    I was thinking about the same exploit, but they mention nothing about disc required though, especially when many games will be digital purchases. Most likely the game can't be played by 2 people at the same time, but currently nothing seems to imply that I can't mark my best friend as family and we could share libraries.

    f Sony won't have anything similar as the link above implies, it might get into an interesting chicken-egg'ish dilemma. X1 would be more profitable platform for game developers, but PS4 might sell better cos of the no DRM thing. So, game developers might favor X1 to get more money out of their games, but then again the PS4 might have much more users due to no DRM. However, if many developers will support X1 one cos of the better revenue-per-game, it might leave PS4 a bit more stranded with games and players might be more attracted by X1 cos it might have more/better games. Although, since most games are multiplatform anyways, I guess they'll be on both consoles.

    It will be interesting to see how will this effect the sales. We have to remember though that majority of the people who buy these devices don't read forums like these or Kotaku or whatnot, but word of mouth and whatever friends have is a much bigger thing and something like the used games policy is likely to be something the average Joe is interested in knowing regardless.
    06-07-2013 01:35 AM
  15. Reflexx's Avatar
    I think the biggest issue I haven't isn't with the policies but with the length of time. 24 hours? That's a bit harsh. A few days to a week would be more reasonable.
    I agree with that. I wouldn't be surprised if that part changes in time. MS would first need "buy in" from the publishers though. They likely all worked together to come up with something that they felt was fair.

    Access your games from your friend's house for only an hour? That's not enough time to game with your friends. You're basically showing them a hour demo. At least give us a couple of hours.
    I believe that you can play at a friends house all you want. But they will have to have their console connected to the internet so that it can verify that the game is being played on your account. To me it sound like when you leave the friend's house, they might be able to still play it for up to an hour if they're lucky.

    And why only 1 trade per used game? Some games live and breathe on the used market. Imagine how many times Rock Band gets resold, or Madden. I'd be happier if publishers got a cut every time instead of limiting resells.
    The resells are up to the publisher. I imagine that many will let a game be resold many times, and take a flat fee for every transaction depending on how old the game is.

    As for the one trade or gift limit... it does seem pretty low. Though if it was limited to 1 trade a year, that might work. But MS did say that they might look into the possibility of renting or loaning games. It probably depends on how much they see people finding loopholes and ways to abuse the system. If there's a lot of abuse, they may not want to add the ability to rent or loan games.
    06-07-2013 02:15 AM
  16. Reflexx's Avatar
    Yeah there is a minority of people with bad internet, but my main issue is with the used games aspect. It just irks me the wrong way. So does lending it to a friend.

    If I want to sell a game, it's bad enough that GameStop rips me off these days by giving me 25 bucks for a recent game, then turning it around and selling it for 55. I can't imagine what it would be if GS has to now pay partial fees to publishers. I always sold my games through Craig's List and even bought, because I know I could get the best value for my money. That option seems to have been eliminated, which disheartens me.

    I am also worried about rental businesses, mainly GameFly. MS has stated that there is no plans for immediate support in regards to rental services.

    Edit: I knew I read it somewhere. Sony will not be doing "Always Online" and any DRM issues will be left to the publishers.

    It's Official: PS4 Will Not Feature Used Game DRM Like Xbox One
    ...and I'm betting that Sony will give the publisher the ability to use DRM. I doubt that a publisher will make a game with DRM on one platform, but not another.
    curseoftheninja likes this.
    06-07-2013 02:19 AM
  17. Reflexx's Avatar
    I was thinking about the same exploit, but they mention nothing about disc required though, especially when many games will be digital purchases. Most likely the game can't be played by 2 people at the same time, but currently nothing seems to imply that I can't mark my best friend as family and we could share libraries.

    f Sony won't have anything similar as the link above implies, it might get into an interesting chicken-egg'ish dilemma. X1 would be more profitable platform for game developers, but PS4 might sell better cos of the no DRM thing. So, game developers might favor X1 to get more money out of their games, but then again the PS4 might have much more users due to no DRM. However, if many developers will support X1 one cos of the better revenue-per-game, it might leave PS4 a bit more stranded with games and players might be more attracted by X1 cos it might have more/better games. Although, since most games are multiplatform anyways, I guess they'll be on both consoles.

    It will be interesting to see how will this effect the sales. We have to remember though that majority of the people who buy these devices don't read forums like these or Kotaku or whatnot, but word of mouth and whatever friends have is a much bigger thing and something like the used games policy is likely to be something the average Joe is interested in knowing regardless.
    I wonder if "family" will all have to be on the same credit card for payment. Or at least all have the same financially responsible person.
    06-07-2013 02:20 AM
  18. Coreldan's Avatar
    I wonder if "family" will all have to be on the same credit card for payment. Or at least all have the same financially responsible person.
    Seems possible, although in the long run that will likely cause some issues when family members move out to live on their own etc. Or perhaps not if the details etc can be changed and the "family bond" broken at that point
    06-07-2013 02:24 AM
  19. Reflexx's Avatar
    If Sony doesn't do DRM, I forsee a TON of exclusives for the ONE.
    06-07-2013 02:27 AM
  20. Coreldan's Avatar
    If Sony doesn't do DRM, I forsee a TON of exclusives for the ONE.
    Yeah, this is what I was thinking too above. It's really hard to say how it'll end up, but it reminds me of the app vs. customers dilemma that smartphones for example have. Do the apps go to where customers are or do the customers go where the apps are-kinda thing :D
    06-07-2013 02:45 AM
  21. SnailUK's Avatar
    I think the biggest issue I haven't isn't with the policies but with the length of time. 24 hours? That's a bit harsh.
    I don't get the problem.

    Microsoft have already said the callback will be tiny, and available via broadband or mobile.

    24 hours makes reasonable sense. They've already said you won't require the disk for anything other that installation. Therefore it'll be really easy to buy a disk, install it, and sell it, all within an hour. I bet there will be plenty of gamers that can complete games within 24 hours. Make that timing any longer, and it just makes it easier and easier for people to abuse the system.

    Personally, i LOVE the idea that i'll never need disks, other than for installation. Having young kids, within 2 seconds of them finding a disk, its scratched. No more worrying about that. No more worrying about finding that game that i havn't played in months.

    The code thing also gives lots of options. Resale of digital downloads may be possible. I may be able to purchase games cheaper, buy opting for no resale option. Rentals should still be possible, by timing the code out after a period of time.

    Make the smart glass app do the authorisation, that means WP, iOS & Android can all work perfectly, even with no console broadband. Sorted.
    06-07-2013 03:20 AM
  22. HeyCori's Avatar
    I don't get the problem.

    Microsoft have already said the callback will be tiny, and available via broadband or mobile.

    24 hours makes reasonable sense. They've already said you won't require the disk for anything other that installation. Therefore it'll be really easy to buy a disk, install it, and sell it, all within an hour. I bet there will be plenty of gamers that can complete games within 24 hours. Make that timing any longer, and it just makes it easier and easier for people to abuse the system.
    I don't think there's much abuse happening in that scenario since there's little incentive to rush. Games get unauthorized from your account as soon as you sell them. Even if the time limit was 72 hours, few people would be in a rush to buy a game, install it and then try to burn through it in 3 days. Plus it's not really a profit situation for the gamer because the trade-in policy remains the same whether he trades it within two days or two weeks. Granted, resell value falls overtime but it doesn't plummet within 24 hours.

    The code thing also gives lots of options. Resale of digital downloads may be possible. I may be able to purchase games cheaper, buy opting for no resale option. Rentals should still be possible, by timing the code out after a period of time.

    Make the smart glass app do the authorisation, that means WP, iOS & Android can all work perfectly, even with no console broadband. Sorted.
    I would like to see game rentals go digital. Let Gamefly have their own Xbox app and just install the game to the HDD. Set it to auto-delete after X amount of days.
    Last edited by HeyCori; 06-07-2013 at 08:04 AM.
    06-07-2013 06:02 AM
  23. HeyCori's Avatar
    Also, if you don't like the new policies, remember to let your voice be heard by contacting Microsoft directly through email, phone, or even Twitter.
    06-07-2013 06:03 AM
  24. DaveGx's Avatar
    The digital game age will come, sadly, eventually. Why pull this garbage now? With physical media still in play, leave it the hell alone. Anyone who thinks this isn't going to hurt XboxOne sales is fooling themselves.
    Requiring an internet connection and putting rules on lending/trading/selling your games is absolutely ludicrous. MS needs to learn, sometimes it doesn't pay to be stubborn. This decision will guarantee an easy victory for Sony in the next Gen console war. Mark it down, if MS follows through, the Xbox One will struggles and lag far behind the PS4 from day one and will never recover.
    06-07-2013 06:13 AM
  25. Robert Carpenter's Avatar
    The digital game age will come, sadly, eventually. Why pull this garbage now? With physical media still in play, leave it the hell alone. Anyone who thinks this isn't going to hurt XboxOne sales is fooling themselves.
    Requiring an internet connection and putting rules on lending/trading/selling your games is absolutely ludicrous. MS needs to learn, sometimes it doesn't pay to be stubborn. This decision will guarantee an easy victory for Sony in the next Gen console war. Mark it down, if MS follows through, the Xbox One will struggles and lag far behind the PS4 from day one and will never recover.

    This is your opinion. I personally have no problem with ANYTHING they are doing. In a year, it will all be irrelevant. If Xbox One doesn't work for you, that's your problem. Families will not be buying a PS4 for the living room. Families will be buying an Xbox One. That will make up for any lost sales to gamers.
    06-07-2013 07:26 AM
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