06-14-2013 02:37 PM
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  1. WasteSomeTime's Avatar
    No it shouldn't. It would demolish the whole point MS is trying to do. Nobody (excluding fitness, dance, children games) will try to invent anything new on Kinect knowing the target audience most likely don't have the device. Now that everyone has it, situation is completely different. We might actually get some really cool stuff in future when devs really start to think outside the box.

    I (almost) understand that people want that cool stuff be there ready and just then purchase the Kinect, but in this case you have to break some eggs to make omelet.

    Only thing that could be done in this case from MS side is to increase the length of the pole in **** and decrease the price of the complete unit. But I am guessing, that they already take some hit with this price tag.
    It should be optional. All the people i know that have the Kinect don't use it. They used it for a week and now it's collecting dust. Nobody uses it. You have no idea how many times i told others, don't waste your money. Your not going to use it. And i can't count how many times they just plain out say I'm right. Its a waste of money. And incapacitates the 360 at start up.
    06-12-2013 07:16 PM
  2. LeLee092's Avatar
    It should be optional. All the people i know that have the Kinect don't use it. They used it for a week and now it's collecting dust. Nobody uses it. You have no idea how many times i told others, don't waste your money. Your not going to use it. And i can't count how many times they just plain out say I'm right. Its a waste of money. And incapacitates the 360 at start up.
    Im trying to stick to the rules from the first post :P
    I disagree..If you watch the XboxOne reveal you can see that you'd be able to use the Kinnect a lot more than on the 360, from things like turning the xbox on, to being able to change screen and pull up snap mode by a quick hand motion
    Again, im not bashing, but from my perspective the kinnect is integrated to the One in a way that it wasnt (and couldnt) in the 360
    Just because it was a 'waste' of money for some of your hardcore gamer friends (i always enjoyed the kinnect equivalent on the Wii,im a casual gamer, that likes playing fitness games :P) doesnt mean it wont work on the One, or that Devs wont develop for it
    06-12-2013 08:38 PM
  3. theeboredone's Avatar
    One problem many people have not talked about is the fact MS is using a locked in HD for their X1 whereas the PS4 is something you can switch out for expandable storage. It's no big deal for the most part, but let's say your HD crashes, you're gonna have to spend a lot of time re-downloading all your games, whereas having some physical copies of the PS4 or even a back up location on another HD or something can give you a sense of relief.

    I'm also worried about X1 being potentially hacked. While it wasn't hacked to the level of PSN, didn't Live have a few outages? What if they **** off Anonymous or some hacker group? I hope they have potential workarounds for that.
    06-12-2013 09:19 PM
  4. WasteSomeTime's Avatar
    Im trying to stick to the rules from the first post :P
    I disagree..If you watch the XboxOne reveal you can see that you'd be able to use the Kinnect a lot more than on the 360, from things like turning the xbox on, to being able to change screen and pull up snap mode by a quick hand motion
    Again, im not bashing, but from my perspective the kinnect is integrated to the One in a way that it wasnt (and couldnt) in the 360
    Just because it was a 'waste' of money for some of your hardcore gamer friends (i always enjoyed the kinnect equivalent on the Wii,im a casual gamer, that likes playing fitness games :P) doesnt mean it wont work on the One, or that Devs wont develop for it
    You can control it faster with a controller. And I never said that my my friends were hardcore gamers, you just assumed that. The ones that own one are the ones with a family and kids. The kids don't care about it. It collects just as much dust as the Wii in their entertainment center.
    06-12-2013 09:19 PM
  5. WasteSomeTime's Avatar
    One problem many people have not talked about is the fact MS is using a locked in HD for their X1 whereas the PS4 is something you can switch out for expandable storage. It's no big deal for the most part, but let's say your HD crashes, you're gonna have to spend a lot of time re-downloading all your games, whereas having some physical copies of the PS4 or even a back up location on another HD or something can give you a sense of relief.

    I'm also worried about X1 being potentially hacked. While it wasn't hacked to the level of PSN, didn't Live have a few outages? What if they **** off Anonymous or some hacker group? I hope they have potential workarounds for that.
    Well they did say that you can connect an external HDD, so maybe you could back something up. Clearly 500 GB is nothing. As far as being hacked, this is a pay to play service. You are paying for security.
    06-12-2013 09:25 PM
  6. theeboredone's Avatar
    Just because it's pay to play, doesn't mean it isn't free from hacking. Diablo 3 (not necessarily pay to play, but uses an auction house) has had accounts hacked. World of Warcraft has as well. And like I said, Xbox Live has had some outages as well.
    06-12-2013 09:32 PM
  7. LeLee092's Avatar
    You can control it faster with a controller. And I never said that my my friends were hardcore gamers, you just assumed that. The ones that own one are the ones with a family and kids. The kids don't care about it. It collects just as much dust as the Wii in their entertainment center.
    True, that was an assumption of mines, I'll take it back.
    But again, just because its collecting dust on the 360, doesnt mean it'll collect dust on the One. It's not like theres a choice anyways ,if your getting the One, your getting the kinnect, so might as well use it to the fullest (which im sure will be more now that its require, the Kinnect has improved and does a lot more, and the Devs will be want to work with it more now that its mandatory).
    It's like saying you want to buy a WP8 but you want it $50 cheaper because you dont want office on it because you dont use it. Sorry buddy, whether you use it a lot or a little, you're stuck with it. If anything it'll make your life easier the few times you'll use it. Same for the kinnect
    06-12-2013 10:42 PM
  8. TeknoBlast's Avatar
    In case some of you have forgotten, while the game is downloading to the hard drive, you can start playing that same game. So you don't have to wait for the entire game to redownload to the hard drive to play it. I don't think having a locked in HD will be a big deal since you can hook up an external hard drive and be able to install games to that external hard drive.
    06-12-2013 11:00 PM
  9. Reflexx's Avatar
    You can control it faster with a controller. And I never said that my my friends were hardcore gamers, you just assumed that. The ones that own one are the ones with a family and kids. The kids don't care about it. It collects just as much dust as the Wii in their entertainment center.
    Kinect is integrated throughout the system for more than just games.

    You may not like it, and that's fine. But for how the ONE functions, it is a NECESSARY component. Without it, it's a completely different machine.
    06-12-2013 11:03 PM
  10. CaptDjob's Avatar
    It should be optional. All the people i know that have the Kinect don't use it. They used it for a week and now it's collecting dust. Nobody uses it. You have no idea how many times i told others, don't waste your money. Your not going to use it. And i can't count how many times they just plain out say I'm right. Its a waste of money. And incapacitates the 360 at start up.
    Exactly. Like I said, there hasn't been business case for devs to create any usefull on Kinect (other than games based on Kinect). Now they have. I play only fps online so I have had no need for kinect on xbox360. But still I'm eagerly waiting how they will use kinect in very subtle but still useful ways in fps. I don't want to stand, wave my hands or shout when playing. But for example I could lean slightly to left to see around the corner.
    06-13-2013 12:53 AM
  11. VanillaFrog's Avatar
    So, microsoft need the 24 hour check in because of two reasons.
    1. It needs to verify that you still own a game in your collection as you can transfer and sell your game licenses.
    2. It checks that you and a "family member" are not playing at the same time as you can allow your family access to your games, no matter where they are in the world.

    To solve the internet requirement problem all they need to do is allow you to be online and lock your game collection to your account. This will disable the above features and allow you to play offline indefinitely.

    Fixed.
    Last edited by VanillaFrog; 06-13-2013 at 02:48 AM. Reason: Clarify post
    LeLee092 likes this.
    06-13-2013 02:46 AM
  12. cgk's Avatar
    You are confusing 'wants' with 'needs'.
    06-13-2013 03:00 AM
  13. martinmc78's Avatar

    To solve the internet requirement problem all they need to do is allow you to be online and lock your game collection to your account. This will disable the above features and allow you to play offline indefinitely.

    Fixed.
    Why would I want to play offline? All my recent games I bought for xbox 360 I played exclusively online - campaign modes were done via co-op online with friends - MW2, Gears 3, Halo Reach, Battlefield 3, Forza 4, Halo 4 - All of these games I never spent a single minute playing offline and that's over the course of 4 years.

    This is just my case but im sure im not alone and players like me are probably the majority.

    Forza 5, Battlefield 4, Titanfall, KI these are all my Xbox One launch targets. Im not going to spend a minute playing those offline either. Nothings changed in how I play or how I use my xbox between the two generations. People need to stop making the offline and 24 hour check in such a big deal, the gaming industry is focused towards multiplayer. All the best selling titles from this generation are all online multiplayer games.
    06-13-2013 03:04 AM
  14. KoreyTM's Avatar
    Enough with the stubborn bull****. Xbox One preorders are way higher than 10% of what Sony's preorders are. Stop speaking for everyone else.

    Your lack of intelligence is so annoying...

    Link to source of this statement?
    06-13-2013 09:56 AM
  15. CaptDjob's Avatar
    So, microsoft need the 24 hour check in because of two reasons.
    1. It needs to verify that you still own a game in your collection as you can transfer and sell your game licenses.
    2. It checks that you and a "family member" are not playing at the same time as you can allow your family access to your games, no matter where they are in the world.

    To solve the internet requirement problem all they need to do is allow you to be online and lock your game collection to your account. This will disable the above features and allow you to play offline indefinitely.

    Fixed.

    +you need to have disc in drive.
    06-13-2013 10:07 AM
  16. CoopII's Avatar
    +you need to have disc in drive.
    Are you sure about that? My understanding is the reason for the check in and installing mandatory is so that you can flip from game to game without the use of a disk. They make a point of playing a single player game while a matchmaking online game is being setup and then fast switching to the game.... Can't do that when installing disks for both games.

    As for me if a 24 check it means I can install the game and put the disk on a shelf all safe and switch from game to game from my couch without inserting the media I LOVE THAT aspect.

    My opinion is a lot of the blame on us losing the ability to resale our games is being put on Microsoft. Really the issue is with the publishers, that will or wont allow used games to be registered a second time. I am all for the weeding out this will bring of the kids who JTag and hack the 360 to apply aimbots and cheats to online games. I am sure down the road that some hack will come out but online check ins maybe it will be less.

    CoopII
    06-13-2013 10:32 AM
  17. KoreyTM's Avatar
    Link to source of this statement?
    Enough with the stubborn bull****. Xbox One preorders are way higher than 10% of what Sony's preorders are. Stop speaking for everyone else.

    Your lack of intelligence is so annoying...

    I'm not so sure. Xbox 1 may have a tough uphill battle ahead of it.


    Amazon US best sellers (#1 PS4 Launch Edition - #2 Xbox One - #3 PS4 Standard Edition):
    Amazon.com Best Sellers: Best Video Games

    Amazon UK best sellers (#1 PS4 Launch Edition - #2 "The Last Of Us" video game - #3 Xbox One):
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Best-Sellers...pUvbUpU2008197

    Amazon Xbox One vs PS4 Facebook poll (PS4 is winning by a landslide):
    https://www.facebook.com/AmazonVideo...1317646&rest=1
    Amazon Holds PS4 vs Xbox One Vote, PS4 Winning By Embarrassingly Insane Ratio, Launch Guaranteed Version Sells Out - PlayStation LifeStyle


    Guess we'll just have to wait and see when the dust settles.
    Last edited by KoreyTM; 06-13-2013 at 11:42 AM.
    06-13-2013 10:53 AM
  18. tk-093's Avatar
    It should be optional. All the people i know that have the Kinect don't use it. They used it for a week and now it's collecting dust. Nobody uses it. You have no idea how many times i told others, don't waste your money. Your not going to use it. And i can't count how many times they just plain out say I'm right. Its a waste of money. And incapacitates the 360 at start up.
    FYI: The Kinect that comes with The One is not the same as the crappy Kinect that is on the 360.. Not by a mile. You can't use the previous one to point to future use.
    Mystictrust likes this.
    06-13-2013 10:59 AM
  19. tk-093's Avatar
    +you need to have disc in drive.

    Nope, once you install the disk you'll never need it in the drive again. Heck, once you install it and it's tied to your account you will probably be able to just download it from Live if you ever need to reinstall it.
    06-13-2013 11:02 AM
  20. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    You don't give up on things that quick IRL, do you? :) Only one or two trolls, the rest of the people are keeping it real....
    It's not a matter of giving up because of one or two people. The whole first page after my first post was the exact kind of bickering and complaining I wanted to avoid in the thread. I didn't see anyone making actual suggestions to things that they view as problems.
    DavidinCT likes this.
    06-13-2013 11:25 AM
  21. Mystictrust's Avatar
    Nope, once you install the disk you'll never need it in the drive again. Heck, once you install it and it's tied to your account you will probably be able to just download it from Live if you ever need to reinstall it.
    I imagine that is very much true. If they say you are able to play your game from any console without need for the disc, that tells me you can download from the Xbox servers anywhere you are. Not unlike how Blizzard does it with both StarCraft games.
    06-13-2013 11:49 AM
  22. Mystictrust's Avatar
    The whole first page after my first post was the exact kind of bickering and complaining I wanted to avoid in the thread. I didn't see anyone making actual suggestions to things that they view as problems.
    Okay. I posted in another thread but I'll repost here since it's a possible solution:

    Problem:
    The internet goes out and you can't check-in for more than 24 hours. Your games get locked down whether you have the disc or not, and all you want to do is play video games, not watch TV. You like the ability to share Xbox One games with family members, play from any console, and play without the disc, but you also know your current ISP suffers from frequent long outages. You are unable to switch providers due to either cost or monopoly (or both).

    Possible solution:
    Microsoft could add a setting within the system that allows you to shut off the game DRM for games with the disc in the drive, but at the time you pick the setting, do a quick online check-in to ensure your disc-based games are unique. All your disc-based games are then locked to your console and that information is sent to Microsoft, so if you give someone else your disc, they won't be able to authenticate or install/play the game. If you pop in a new, previously uninstalled game, the system will require you to pop online quickly to check that in, and ensure the game is unique and not belonging to anyone else. This way, there is still only one person able to play offline. If you want to sell your game, there could even be an area where you could unlock particular titles from your console (so, you wouldn't be able to play without checking it back in, but you could sell the disc)

    If you're in an area prone to internet outages, or you're paranoid, or you don't like connecting your console online very often... perform the process to check your games in so that they are available to you when internet isn't available. I would say even with this option available you could still connect and play online and do everything else, but if the internet went out, you would still have access to your disc-based games. And if your console couldn't check-in, shared games with your "10 family members" would cease to function, and you wouldn't be able to access your games on any other console without signing in to your own gamertag. Period.

    I also say they should keep the same system they have now for purely digital (i.e. XBLA) games: Allow them to be DRM-free on the first console they are downloaded to. Then again, they could have done away with that because there were people abusing that... *sigh*... some people just ruin it for all the honest ones, don't they? Still, it would be nice to have the option of restricting a digital game to one console, so you wouldn't be able to play it on a remote console with your friend (and they couldn't access game sharing of your game either), but it would at least be available for those with frequent internet outages. I take it there are a lot of people with internet outages though, from all the outrage, which is kind of sad in 2013 :( ISPs suck.
    06-13-2013 12:02 PM
  23. someoneinwa's Avatar
    Microsoft should absolutely NOT make any changes to their vision for the Xbox One. Posters and bloggers (looking at you Thurrott) wanting Microsoft to ditch the Kinect to lower the price are looking to address short term issues and an admittedly poorly executed company performance at E3 by changing a product designed to last several years and catch the next big things: the inevitable move to cloud gaming; continuation of growth of streaming entertainment (and the decline of physical media); and the evolution of natural user interfaces. Including the Kinect in each unit makes developer investment in natural user interfaces much more likely and I happen to think the control of live TV will be not be the killer feature but certainly one people will talk about.

    There is a much better way for Microsoft to recover from E3. Services. Here is how it could play out:

    Sometime in July, Microsoft has a third event and says something like "In May we showed you our new Xbox One and the new Xbox 360. In June we revealed our outstanding game portfolio. Now it is time to talk about how we are evolving our Xbox Live services. First, we are pleased to announce that beginning with the release of Xbox One and the new Xbox 360 dashboard, any subscription services such as Netflix will be available for all Xbox One and 360 owners and will not require an Xbox Gold membership. We've added the following great services to the Xbox Live Gold membership to our best in class current offerings: (list the services and rumored new ones here). In addition, we are pleased to announce that Xbox Live Gold memberships on the Xbox One will now include a free Xbox Music pass. You will be able to share your music with up to 4 devices just as you can today: your PC, your Windows Phone, an Xbox 360, your choice. Xbox Live Gold memberships on Xbox One will also include 60 free minutes of Skype calls each month. We previously announced you would be able to store game highlights in the cloud to share with friends. With Xbox Box Live Gold this service is part of the 10Gb of free SkyDrive storage you will receive as part of your membership. You can also easily watch your personal videos and play back your pictures and your music collections from this storage. If you have other Microsoft services, such as Office 365, this SkyDrive storage is added to your account. We are also pleased to announce that there will be no increase in the annual fee for Xbox Live Gold on Xbox One."

    Something like this....and there are certainly other possibilies such as monthly free games....would quickly add value to the Xbox One that Sony couldn't match and allow Microsoft to leave the product as designed. In a few years, the issues that are bothering a loud group of folks so much now won't even be issues any more. The most important thing Microsoft has said about the Xbox One is that it was designed to be futureproof. I think they are right about that. Today's issues can be dealt with and the "devices and services" company has the ability to overcome the short term issues if it wants to.
    Last edited by someoneinwa; 06-13-2013 at 12:15 PM.
    Mystictrust, Reflexx and Vallos like this.
    06-13-2013 12:05 PM
  24. DavidinCT's Avatar
    OK, lets be real here. Something needs to give... Yea, you might say it's selling out but, from the links above the DRM issues, 24 hour checks and always online is effecting it. People are not happy about it at all.

    Take a look at Amazon's Facebook pole... At this writing, 18555 PS4 and 1056 X1. The people are talking...

    ( https://www.facebook.com/AmazonVideo...1317646&rest=1 )

    I guess Microsoft needs to allow used sales and I am not talking about Gamestop or Game (in the UK). There needs to be a way to disable or remove a Physical disk from your account (that can be proven, this disc is removed) so you can sell on ebay or give to someone NOT on your friends list for 30 days. If they want to do something like Sony is saying, make the online pass extra but, still can play the single player version. I think most people would accept that (but notall of them) but, I think I would be OK with that. Selling or trading on Microsoft's site is going to be like getting them at gamestop, where they mark it up to almost new retail and there is no point of that.

    Then they need to kill the 24 hour checks in a way, so people with out a good internet connection can still access and play the signle player game with out a problem as long as they have a disc. I dont know the perfect way to solve this (Microsoft dug themselfes into this hole). But, it needs to work to make everyone happy here.

    The biggest problems on the internet are..
    1.Used games
    2. Needing internet to play single player games

    If Microsoft could find a happy medium here, it could make everyone happy and still move towards their end goal (a total digital based system with no physical media). They can move towards a more digital model by selling new games online for $50-55 and $59.99 in the store, buy online and save $5-10, it will sell a lot more.
    06-13-2013 12:29 PM
  25. Reflexx's Avatar
    Microsoft should absolutely NOT make any changes to their vision for the Xbox One. Posters and bloggers (looking at you Thurrott) wanting Microsoft to ditch the Kinect to lower the price are looking to address short term issues and an admittedly poorly executed company performance at E3 by changing a product designed to last several years and catch the next big things: the inevitable move to cloud gaming; continuation of growth of streaming entertainment (and the decline of physical media); and the evolution of natural user interfaces. Including the Kinect in each unit makes developer investment in natural user interfaces much more likely and I happen to think the control of live TV will be not be the killer feature but certainly one people will talk about.

    There is a much better way for Microsoft to recover from E3. Services. Here is how it could play out:

    Sometime in July, Microsoft has a third event and says something like "In May we showed you our new Xbox One and the new Xbox 360. In June we revealed our outstanding game portfolio. Now it is time to talk about how we are evolving our Xbox Live services. First, we are pleased to announce that beginning with the release of Xbox One and the new Xbox 360 dashboard, any subscription services such as Netflix will be available for all Xbox One and 360 owners and will not require an Xbox Gold membership. We've added the following great services to the Xbox Live Gold membership to our best in class current offerings: (list the services and rumored new ones here). In addition, we are pleased to announce that Xbox Live Gold memberships on the Xbox One will now include a free Xbox Music pass. You will be able to share your music with up to 4 devices just as you can today: your PC, your Windows Phone, an Xbox 360, your choice. Xbox Live Gold memberships on Xbox One will also include 60 free minutes of Skype calls each month. We previously announced you would be able to store game highlights in the cloud to share with friends. With Xbox Box Live Gold this service is part of the 10Gb of free SkyDrive storage you will receive as part of your membership. You can also easily watch your personal videos and play back your pictures and your music collections from this storage. If you have other Microsoft services, such as Office 365, this SkyDrive storage is added to your account. We are also pleased to announce that there will be no increase in the annual fee for Xbox Live Gold on Xbox One."

    Something like this....and there are certainly other possibilies such as monthly free games....would quickly add value to the Xbox One that Sony couldn't match and allow Microsoft to leave the product as designed. In a few years, the issues that are bothering a loud group of folks so much now won't even be issues any more. The most important thing Microsoft has said about the Xbox One is that it was designed to be futureproof. I think they are right about that. Today's issues can be dealt with and the "devices and services" company has the ability to overcome the short term issues if it wants to.
    Microsoft isn't going to over react because of what's going on online right now. They likely still have a few more big announcements that will clarify things or make these "problems" seem smaller, while also making the new benefits seem even more valuable.

    The XBOX ONE isn't just a game console. There's going to be a lot more announced about how all of Windows will work together to create a sci-fi future.
    06-13-2013 01:02 PM
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