MS responds to internet requirements: Get a 360

[sueha]

I dont care, I'm getting the XBOX, cause I love technology (the One looks more innovative to me) and I can make use of the TV features. Having an Internet Connection 24/7 is no Problem for me as I live in 2013. Dont understand your Problems. If I have temporary Internet issues (which actually never happens), I shut off the Systems and go out lol. It will be my first non-nintendo device lol (I even work for Nintendo).

If you decide to buy a PS4/XBOX One for your Kids, you shouldnt complain too much about having Access to the Internet. If you really want your Kids to play adequate games, you should buy them a Nintendo anyway I'm not sure, but I guess there will be something like a Kids Zone on the One.

 

[DavidinCT]

Have you ever heard of Diablo 3, SIm City, Simpson's Tapped Out, Curiosity? These are all games that you need an internet connection to function. This idea is nothing new.

Yep, and these types of games are designed to use ONLINE and ONLY ONLINE multi-player. I am only talking about single player games, Every heard of Black Ops 2 ? Ever heard The Last of US ? God of War ? Modern Warefare 1, 2 or 3 ? I'm talking about almost EVERY GAME FOR EVERY CONSOLE.

Some people buy systems/games to play online only and that is cool, nothing wrong with it, therefore needing a internet connection. A lot of people like myself, enjoys games for their story and the designers made the game BEFORE any mulitplayer content. Yep, I got Black Ops 2 and did not even try the Muti-player game till I fully completed the single player game and I do that with every game I buy.

No matter what everyone here thinks, I still stand by the fact that I should be able to play the NON-Cloud based single player game even if Xbox live or my ISP is down for a long term. 10 years from now when I want to play this game that I paid for, now that the X3 is out and MS servers do not suppor the system, I still think I should have the right to play the game that I paid for and not be forced to be limited by the status of MS's Xbox live OR my ISP.

The rule should be there still, Phsical disk in a console rules if a connection is not availabe. PERIOD. I know 100%, I am not the only one who feels like this (more like millions of people).

I wouldn't be surprised if more advanced parenting controls allowed the system to check-in and nothing else.

Agreed on this but, it does not take away the fact of non-techy old school parents who would never let a internet connection in a childs room for any reason will still be there and makes up a LOT of console buyers. A lot more than you think.

At least some of the kids steal the person's next door open wi-fi or got the key from his friend, I have seen that a lot too but, the parents never even know about it...

 

[Vallos]

I wouldn't be surprised if more advanced parenting controls allowed the system to check-in and nothing else.

Good call, there. People are assuming way too much.

 

[tk-093]

Agreed on this but, it does not take away the fact of non-techy old school parents who would never let a internet connection in a childs room for any reason will still be there and makes up a LOT of console buyers. A lot more than you think.

Something else to think about. Those parents who were too scared to have kids online.. well their kids have grown up and now there is a newer generation of parents who are more likely to allow that sort of thing. Not all parents, obviously, but that "tech" gap is closing very fast. Hell my school gives every middle school kid an iPad to do homework on, many other schools do laptops. We are all just speculating of course, and I would assume MS did some research into it, but the days of "old-school" parents not letting their kids get online is probably about over.

P.S. Since Microsoft has only sold about 77 million XBox 360's, it's probably safe to say they didn't "write off" 50 million sales. :wink:

 

[jlzimmerman]

I have never seen a more heated subject than this Xbox One. I have my opinions (which aren't all pro Microsoft and are just as valid by the way). But at the end of the day, its just a overpriced box no one really needs, keeping things in perspective.

It's $100 more than when the 360 was released EIGHT years ago. BFD when you consider that will spread over the life of the console (7-10 years).


And it requires a short authentication ONCE every 24 hours. If your internet connection is out for 24 hours or more you have bigger problems. I would bet the percentage of gamers who play without an internet connection that lasts more than 24 is hours would be very small. And folks screaming about used games haven't looked outside their comfort zone to READ other sources which states M$ will not charge a fee, will allow selling and buying of used games through retailers, and will allow you to lend a game to a friend.

From one article:

In a post on the Xbox Wire website, Microsoft said that in terms of trading in or reselling their Xbox One disc games to retailers such as GameStop,"We designed Xbox One so game publishers can enable you to trade in your games at participating retailers. Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers for enabling transfer of these games."

And what about just giving an Xbox One game disc to a friend? Microsoft said that this is allowed, but also put in two restrictions: " ... you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once." Microsoft said no fees would be charged for these actions.

That's the good news. The bad news is that Microsoft is giving third party game publishers an option to set up their own restrictions on used Xbox One game discs.

And on that last sentance, PS4 is doing the same thing.

 

[Robert Carpenter]

Did I really just get an infraction from calling someone a "crybaby" on this thread?

My post got deleted and my account got an infraction because calling someone a "crybaby" is a personal attack. Most moderators here, like HeyCori, are awesome and respectful people, but some of them are really immature.

Does anyone else think that calling someone a "crybaby" is worth and infraction?....

 

[tk-093]

Good post, dude. Very fair points. I was also thinking having the disk in the drive would be a good backup, but the more i think about it, I don't know if that would work with the way MS is wanting to go.

The XBox One is basically a Steam Box. Sure they have physical disks, but I think it's more of a way to get the digital copy on the machine without having to download a massive file. If I buy a disk, or download it from online, the XBox One treats it the same way.

Sony, and I'm just speculating until we get more details, is staying with the same old method of requiring the disk to be in the drive in order to play. Which is fine, wouldn't bother me. If you download it online, you wouldn't need a disk which makes sense because they don't have any of the cool sharing features that the XB1 has so they don't need online checks.

Now, XB1 lets me toss away the disk after I install but has online checks. If it let me use the disk as a failsafe without internet, I could easily just install the game on an online machine and turn around and sell it to somebody with an offline machine and we could both play which is technically in violation of the software license.

But what happens if that user then goes online and the game tries to register? Does it break your ability to play the game, or does the original license holder have to give permission to transfer the license, or is the user just SOL? It could get messy.

So the online check is there for DRM, no doubt, but it's also there to help facilitate some of the features like sharing games with your family, or actually selling your license back. It also means that there is potential to sell my online only downloads, where in the past once I buy them, I'm stuck with them for life.

Make no mistake, it is a very different world especially since I've been popping physical disks/carts into games since the Atari 2600. Microsoft might not "win" this round, but it's the direction everything is going. I have no doubt they will still be very profitable reguardless of how many consoles they sell.

Hard core or even mid line gamers who are adults or have a good job seem to forget about this. As someone who did custom home theater installs for years in homes, I saw this a lot more than you think. Xbox 360s and PS3s with no internet connections in kids rooms is very common. The parents dont want the kids to have internet access in their rooms, only a computer in a kitchen or main room so they can be montored. A lot of parents feel that way with all the bad press of things happening on the internet these days, I can fully understand. A lot of parents still feel a video game console is a toy to entertain their kids (a modern babysitter).

This is a big point in sales for these consoles, kids under 15 who have systems in their rooms with no internet connections. It's more common than you think.

Microsoft just blacklisted these people. Yea, the Xbox One pre-orders are selling out to the hard core gamers or people well off but, the main sales come later, when everyone picks up the system. With these systems blacklisted and parents who buy a big junk of these systems will have to think about it, or it will end up with a very high return rate because of this factor.

This is a lot bigger amount of sales than you think. This will make a large impact on sales in the long run. I am not talking about when it's released but, over the next year or 2 after release, yea it will be a big deal and sales will show it.

As I sit here and complain about this, because it could effect me at 1 or 2 times a year (that time when Internet is down and I WANT to play a game at that time), I still think it's an issue. Microsoft needs to be 100% clear and honest about the details on this. They have not been, this is what is causing an outrage on the internet.

All they would have to change is when a Physical disk is inside the machine, no internet is needed to use that game (as long as cloud is not needed for a single player game), it would solve this issue, it would make most people happy here and would not blacklist these possable sales.

 

[martinmc78]

Did I really just get an infraction from calling someone a "crybaby" on this thread?

My post got deleted and my account got an infraction because calling someone a "crybaby" is a personal attack. Most moderators here, like HeyCori, are awesome and respectful people, but some of them are really immature.

Does anyone else think that calling someone a "crybaby" is worth and infraction?....

Tell me about it - I got an infraction for saying an obvious troll should go back to his cave after you lambasted him with an awesome response.

Please moderators, moderate. But do so in moderation. :wink:

 

[Vallos]

Did I really just get an infraction from calling someone a "crybaby" on this thread?

My post got deleted and my account got an infraction because calling someone a "crybaby" is a personal attack. Most moderators here, like HeyCori, are awesome and respectful people, but some of them are really immature.

Does anyone else think that calling someone a "crybaby" is worth and infraction?....

I think it's best you bring this up privately to the moderators, instead of publicly questioning their actions. You might get another infraction, or worse because of it.

 

[jlzimmerman]

M$ getting rid of people with shotty internet connection is kind of a Godsend to gamers. No more lag, or time-outs due to switching hosts. LOL.

It's interesting to hear the reaction of console players when PC gamers have been in this (licensing/online connection) realm for years. *shrug*

 

[martinmc78]

M$ getting rid of people with shotty internet connection is kind of a Godsend to gamers. No more lag, or time-outs due to switching hosts. LOL.

That's a damn fine point - I never thought of that and its one of my biggest annoyances with online play - welcome to the future.

 

[Reflexx]

The "disc rules all" idea won't work.

People will just install the game on their hard drive and then give the disc to someone else to play offline.

 

[DavidinCT]

Good post, dude. Very fair points. I was also thinking having the disk in the drive would be a good backup, but the more i think about it, I don't know if that would work with the way MS is wanting to go..

Thanks, that is how I feel about the subject, No internet, no connection, Physical disc would show that I owned the game and I should be able to use it (Physical discs only, I understand digital downloads could not be played in this case)

Now, XB1 lets me toss away the disk after I install but has online checks. If it let me use the disk as a failsafe without internet, I could easily just install the game on an online machine and turn around and sell it to somebody with an offline machine and we could both play which is technically in violation of the software license.
.

No, you could not in this case. Yes, you can install it on another machine and use it but, because you didn't have the disc in the first machine, you could not play it on that machine(needing the disc in the drive to play when off line). So, same as now, you would only be able to use the game on one machine at a time. So by selling this game, you would lose the possablity of playing this game, unless you digital download or buy another copy. Assuming MS would see serial numbers on the disk, after internet was restored, the 2nd system, unless they were family would not be able to play this game (unless it was transftered to their account of some type) depending on the license terms.

Exactly the way it works now. Accept the game is tied to your account...or maybe only playable off line if you already had the game installed before internet goes out.

I see your point but, there has to be a 1/2 way point to make everyone happy...

Tell me about it - I got an infraction for saying an obvious troll should go back to his cave after you lambasted him with an awesome response.

Please moderators, moderate. But do so in moderation. :wink:

Yea, it's happend to me too but, this is off topic and should be taken up with the mod that gave you a warning... You can't call someone a troll but, you have to report them but, that never does anything from what I saw in the past.

 

[tk-093]

No, you could not in this case. Yes, you can install it on another machine and use it but, because you didn't have the disc in the first machine, you could not play it on that machine(needing the disc in the drive to play when off line). So, same as now, you would only be able to use the game on one machine at a time. So by selling this game, you would lose the possablity of playing this game, unless you digital download or buy another copy. Assuming MS would see serial numbers on the disk, after internet was restored, the 2nd system, unless they were family would not be able to play this game (unless it was transftered to their account of some type) depending on the license terms.

Exactly the way it works now. Accept the game is tied to your account...or maybe only playable off line if you already had the game installed before internet goes out.

I see your point but, there has to be a 1/2 way point to make everyone happy...

But in order for it to work the "way it works now" you can't just have the disk as a back-up if you are offline, you need to require the disk 100% of the time otherwise I could install the game and use my online connection to validate and play without a disk and then give you the game and you could play offline with the disk in the drive. The only way to prevent that is to require the disk 100% of the time.

If you require the disk 100% of the time, then I can't allow 9 other people on my family account to also play the game. I have a brother 3 hours away, with the XB1 we can be on the same family plan and each by different games and swap them. You can't do that when you require the disk to play.

 

[Oliver Newell]

People are blowing this WAY out of proportion. People. The device hasn't even hit the shelves yet. I love how people are making up their minds without even trying either of them, just going on rumours and first hand information, you can only take this with a pinch of salt, even if its from Microsoft. They are not stupid. They are moving with the times. The internet is everywhere now and its never ever going to go or decrease. As regards the military, im sure something will be done about that as regards the internet connection requirements. Personally I think the XBOX is going to wipe the PS4 off the ground. Microsoft isn't forcing you to buy the XBOX one when it comes out. You don't like it? Fine, get a PS4 and be disappointed with it or content.

 

[oldpueblo]

But in order for it to work the "way it works now" you can't just have the disk as a back-up if you are offline, you need to require the disk 100% of the time otherwise I could install the game and use my online connection to validate and play without a disk and then give you the game and you could play offline with the disk in the drive. The only way to prevent that is to require the disk 100% of the time.

If you require the disk 100% of the time, then I can't allow 9 other people on my family account to also play the game. I have a brother 3 hours away, with the XB1 we can be on the same family plan and each by different games and swap them. You can't do that when you require the disk to play.

And this right here is awesome. Add to that the fact that I no longer have to worry about physical discs being ruined by my kids and I'm sorry I'll take Internet checks all day long (like Steam) for that advantage and convenience. Steam logs out your account almost immediately when you login to another computer. My Internet almost never goes down. If it did I'd break out the board games. We are coming out ahead with this, not behind. EVERYONE can benefit from these new abilities whereas very few will feel the negative effects only at infrequent times. This is not designed for the few, but the many and the future. There are plenty of alternatives for offline lovers, don't screw the rest of us because of your choices/edge circumstances/stubbornness.

To reiterate, my Internet "might" go down once a year. But I'll be enjoying the online sharing abilities every day of the year. Do the math.

 

[tk-093]

One thing I think we can all agree on is that Microsoft has not done the best sales job on all this stuff.

 

[martinmc78]

One thing I think we can all agree on is that Microsoft has not done the best sales job on all this stuff.

I think they did a perfect sales job so far. Weve been told what the One can do - given demos of all the tv stuff and all the game stuff. Information on some of the finer points is available from xbox.com.

There are things to be decided still but MS are saying more details will come before launch.

Whats made it look bad is Sony with two lines "ON PS4 WE WONT HAVE DRM" & "$399 TO BUY"

 

[Mystictrust]

Now, XB1 lets me toss away the disk after I install but has online checks. If it let me use the disk as a failsafe without internet, I could easily just install the game on an online machine and turn around and sell it to somebody with an offline machine and we could both play which is technically in violation of the software license.

This could easily be solved by adding a setting within the system that allows you to shut off the game DRM for games with the disc in the drive, but at the time you pick the setting, do a quick online check-in to ensure your disc-based games are unique. All your disc-based games are then locked to your console and that information is sent to Microsoft, so if you give someone else your disc, they won't be able to authenticate or install/play the game. If you pop in a new, previously uninstalled game, the system will require you to pop online quickly to check that in, and ensure the game is unique and not belonging to anyone else. This way, there is still only one person able to play offline. If you want to sell your game, there could even be an area where you could unlock particular titles from your console (so, you wouldn't be able to play without checking it back in, but you could sell the disc)

If you're in an area prone to internet outages, or you're paranoid, or you don't like connecting your console online very often... perform the process to check your games in so that they are available to you when internet isn't available. I would say even with this option available you could still connect and play online and do everything else, but if the internet went out, you would still have access to your disc-based games. And if your console couldn't check-in, shared games with your "10 family members" would cease to function, and you wouldn't be able to access your games on any other console without signing in to your own gamertag. Period.


I also say they should keep the same system they have now for purely digital (i.e. XBLA) games: Allow them to be DRM-free on the first console they are downloaded to. Then again, they could have done away with that because there were people abusing that... *sigh*... some people just ruin it for all the honest ones, don't they? Still, it would be nice to have the option of restricting a digital game to one console, so you wouldn't be able to play it on a remote console with your friend (and they couldn't access game sharing of your game either), but it would at least be available for those with frequent internet outages. I take it there are a lot of people with internet outages though, from all the outrage, which is kind of sad in 2013 ISPs suck.

 

[BobLobIaw]

I don't really care if MS loses a certain number of sales--who they want to market to is their own prerogative. If the system had stayed the same, I would have been fine with it even though I subsidize a lot of people working the angles because I actually buy the games and don't resell or give them to others. Now that the new model has been laid out, I support it mildly because it can only help by cutting out the freeloading kids in the basement passing the discs around to all their friends. Once again, I have nothing against those people but I'm not going to fight for their right to be subsidized by people like me. There is a possibility that the price of games will decrease or hold steady longer over the long run as many have observed. There is also the possibility that the fat cats get fatter. I recognize that and will react accordingly based on what happens. For now, I'm fine with it.

As for the internet connection, I wouldn't worry to much. During the heyday of online gaming, a lot of underage youngsters figured out how to have an internet connection that was reliable 24/7. Almost a decade later, I don't really think checking in every 24 hours is as big of a problem as people are making it out to be.