06-17-2013 08:12 PM
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  1. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    sigh... really, why dont you just wrap with foil the Kinect after you make your awesome tin foil hat, so you would be sure to block any magical spying power?

    when will you stop your.......behaviour? for all your posts you have written, you are not even getting Xbox One, so why are you so worried about it having Kinect? you don't even know what it does, how it will do it. but hey the engineer says you can turn the system off completely, so at least none would spy you while the xbox is off *sarcasm*

    why are you even in Internet if you are so afraid of someone spying on you? (well you are the one making this stupid "spying theory" not me) you know.. internet = make it easier for someone to spy you and know about you. but but... you know what is this site about? about windows PHONE. you know... phones have cameras, or are you using a non existent consumer windows phone with no camera? or maybe you cover the camera with a tape or something? wow.. just start to sell your tv, your computer, your cameras, your phones because EVERYONE is and will spy you!!. you are so interesting everyone wants to spy you *sarcasm again obviously.*

    the vision with Microsoft and Kinect is one.. if you don't like it, just don't get it. if you cant even see (and they showed it) why Microsoft wants Kinect on it, in every xbox one sold, then you are really blind and you have no vision for an innovative future. there is no proves or anything to back up your amazing spying theory anyway... or do you have one? oh well, I know you have nothing to back it up. next retard story/rumor/complain theory please?
    but have a good day! :)
    Well, I think we can answer your ridiculous question of why I am on the Internet VERY easily. My concern with that is related to the Kinect. It functions like a webcam in that respect. I do not possess a webcam, so there is no camera on my computer for anyone to watch what I do.

    See, what I don't get with all of these people disagreeing with my opinion on plugging the Kinect in is that most seem to just want to say "it's not a big deal to do it." They're not saying (with the exception of Mystictrust, who seems to be the only one who cares to actually UNDERSTAND what I am saying and have an intelligent discussion) WHY I am wrong. I mean, Winning Guy say it's because they want it to function as a "personal assistant," and that's fine. That doesn't explain the 100% requirement of usage. You want to sit can call me "paranoid," and "retarded," simply because I don't want to plug in my Kinect. You say I'm overblowing the intent here, but it's more that I don't want to support the OPPORTUNITY to spy in the future (be it with the Xbox One's Kinect or other household visual hardware, like a webcam). I'm not saying that it WILL happen, just that I don't like the thought of having it happen. Call it something out of 1984 that can never happen all you want, but the thought of a camera that must be given power for the console to work has the POTENTIAL to be used for the purpose of spying. Oh, and for all of the thoughts of safety in the Terms of Use, remember that this government forces the collection of people's phone records without telling them and that we've had illegal wiretapping scandals. The American government loves to work outside of the law as much as possible, and they could certainly call out "national security" or "Patriot Act" to attempt to justify spying with the Kinect, if they wanted. Again, it's not a matter of I'm saying something WILL happen, just that I don't like the possibility of it.

    You're also failing to read the entirety of my posts, it seems, which is how you jump to the conclusion of my not getting an Xbox One. I've stated that based on the current, concrete evidence present at the time ($500 price tag, Kinect purchase required, 24-hour check-in, Kinect present to run, only letting someone who is friends on LIVE for 30 to borrow a game, and only ONCE, etc.), I would not be interested in purchasing an Xbox One. That is not a statement that there is no way I would buy one, only a statement that the then-current information would keep me from buying the console.

    Now, if you were to actually read all of my posts (not that I expect you to, as that's a stupid request), you'll see that I've liked some of the newer information available. That this guy claims that the Kinect can be 100% powered down is a plus, though my legitimately-paranoid (not even trying to hide that fact) curiosity there is if Microsoft can override that powered-down command and start it up, or if they'll just have so many things require the Kinect to be running that shutting it down isn't an option for many features.

    (Example: Microsoft was shown filing a patent for a system in which the Kinect was used to watch for how many people were in a room while a video rental was being watched. The rental cost was based on a per-person attendance, and if more people entered the room, the Kinect would see that and stop the movie to require another license be purchased to support more viewers. In that case, it might be that they would not allow video rentals to be played with the Kinect turned off.)

    I've also liked the fleshing out of the ten "family member" groups that has received some clarity. If it's true that a single license can be shared fully among 10 users, and multiple users can access the game simultaneously, that's a big deal in lowering software costs for users. If they follow the Steam model of big, frequent sales to keep game costs low, that's a plus as well. That kind of stuff is what I'm reading up on still, because those kinds of features can change my mind on getting the Xbox One.

    Where you seem to be mistaken is that I've got this concrete decision to never purchase an Xbox One. However, I'm still here discussing it because I'm, in fact, trying to get more information on how it works, because additional information is what will decide if I ultimately purchase the system or now.
    06-14-2013 09:55 AM
  2. ninjaap's Avatar
    There is literally no logical reason to require a Kinect to be plugged in, beyond the ability to watch users. My unplugging my Kinect does not take money out of anyone's pocket, nor does it hamper the experience of others. Therefore, the only interpretation for "their vision" that fits that action is that their vision is to be able to spy on users. I don't want to see that implemented.
    I don't see people trying to rip out PC or mobile cameras? The Kinect can be turned off, just like PC and mobile phone cameras.
    mister2d likes this.
    06-14-2013 09:58 AM
  3. Mystictrust's Avatar
    I don't see people trying to rip out PC or mobile cameras? The Kinect can be turned off, just like PC and mobile phone cameras.
    On that note, it makes me think of a surprising number of people that I see at my university and elsewhere with sticky notes and tape covering up the webcam built-in to their laptops. It doesn't matter that there is actual hardware that will turn on a tiny white dot light next to it that shows when video is being recorded (note: no such rule about audio recordings, which is why recording lectures is invisible to anyone who looks at my laptop). The built-in webcams are significantly harder to rip out than, say, a tethered Kinect would be.

    I do trust that it can and will be fully shut off, as they say, but not everyone will. There will always be people with sticky notes on cameras.
    ninjaap likes this.
    06-14-2013 10:16 AM
  4. MFmonster's Avatar
    .............He's very blunt, but I do like what he is saying. Truly Microsoft or not, it makes sense to me, pulling a Steam-like gaming business model. For the console world, it's kind of pushing everyone kicking and screaming into the next generation, driving innovation, etc. We have no idea if prices will drop like crazy, or if Microsoft can (or will) offer crazy Steam-like price sales, but it certainly CAN be a possibility that prices in the mainstream console gaming industry could DROP as a result of this - at least for titles on the Xbox. Maybe physical discs, maybe digital-only versions, maybe only for the non-powerhouse publishers (*ahem* no way would it ever be Electronic Art$)... it could happen
    I truly hope this is the direction the console goes. I rarely sell my games and I have a large collection. It takes up space and my youngest loves to destroy the order I create and I spend time reorganizing the cases instead of playing games at times. :) I LOVE the idea of my games in the cloud and saving space and having access to them quickly. At first I did not like the idea of not owning the physical copy, but I have changed when the last year Xbox Live began offering some games for cheap. Picking up Games on Demand for $5-20 dollars is great. When I would buy used I usually look for the $10-20 range for most games and it can take months to get at that price point. I am still waiting for DMC to hit $20 New. It wasn't until this past year MS really began putting great sales on Games on Demand and it I get the feeling Steam and it's pricing will translate to Xbox One.
    mister2d likes this.
    06-14-2013 10:29 AM
  5. sinime's Avatar
    Where you seem to be mistaken is that I've got this concrete decision to never purchase an Xbox One. However, I'm still here discussing it because I'm, in fact, trying to get more information on how it works, because additional information is what will decide if I ultimately purchase the system or now.
    It's not going to be streaming you sitting on the couch in undies to the peeps on the interwebs while you watch TV, unless your on Skype ;)

    Unless your on skype or a "social" type game which brodcasts users pictures to each other (for some reason UNO comes to mind... you had the option to display a video feed of yourself or your static gamer tag - Your choice BTW), the voice and image data will only be used localy.

    Have you looked at this article yet?...

    Don't flinch: the new Kinect could be the end of motion gimmicks | The Verge
    06-14-2013 10:32 AM
  6. Reflexx's Avatar
    People simply want to hv something to fuss about. I'm excited n can't wait for Xbox one. Like I told someone on the Xbox forums... Be thankful you hv MS building such machines... If it wasn't for these guys and others we would b outside throwing rocks in a pond... Counting the ripples and keeping score.
    Hey! That can be fun!
    Mystictrust likes this.
    06-14-2013 10:36 AM
  7. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    I don't see people trying to rip out PC or mobile cameras? The Kinect can be turned off, just like PC and mobile phone cameras.
    The reason for that being:

    1. I don't have a PC camera. That doesn't apply to me, so I can't answer that.
    2. A mobile camera doesn't have the viewing angle of a Kinect. When I've got my phone pointed at anything, it's when I am reading or playing a game. All that can be seen is my face. With a Kinect, it could see a whole room, from what I own to what I'm wearing.
    3. I wouldn't be as annoyed with the issue (nor would I expect as much complaining) if the Kinect was a built-in piece of the console, and not an accessory. I guess the simple solution there is to THINK of it as part of the console, but I still don't like it. I just think it's that the Kinect has a greater chance at receiving lots of information about its surroundings than the others, so people have more of a problem with it.
    06-14-2013 10:42 AM
  8. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    It's not going to be streaming you sitting on the couch in undies to the peeps on the interwebs while you watch TV, unless your on Skype ;)

    Unless your on skype or a "social" type game which brodcasts users pictures to each other (for some reason UNO comes to mind... you had the option to display a video feed of yourself or your static gamer tag - Your choice BTW), the voice and image data will only be used localy.

    Have you looked at this article yet?...

    Don't flinch: the new Kinect could be the end of motion gimmicks | The Verge
    I don't really get the point of the article, honestly. It just seems to say "the Kinect can read and react to more-subtle movements." That just tells me I won't have to flail AS spectacularly as I did trying to get Kinect Disneyland Adventures to figure out what I was trying to do. It doesn't seem to really offer anything to what we're discussing.

    Also, the UNO example...its was the WOOOOORST. For starters, people liked to show you their butts with the camera and such, which was annoying. Secondly, people would boot you from games for NOT using a camera. All that does is offer me an example of the negatives of image-based gaming, because UNO was one of the worst social experiences I've had in gaming.
    06-14-2013 10:48 AM
  9. MFmonster's Avatar
    Keith- You are entitled to your opinion and to believe what you want to believe. You can decide with your wallet or with your voice what you want as a consumer. Having options and the ability to make choices is a wonderful thing. You have concerns, and that is alright.

    I am not a patent expert, but the patent topic is not new. People are hired by MS, Apple, Google, Nokia, Samsung, etc to think up patents. Currently patents are huge for these companies and not unlike any other company they think of the future, beat others to the 'patent race'. The concept of tracking the number of people for movie rentals for example is one of those concepts. It has been fleshed out a while ago and explained this is not the plan, but simply a patent. There are probably a great deal of patents that never were used, or will be used. I remember reading on several Sony patents that never have been utilized. But, look at the money Nokia makes because of their patents.


    Here is an interesting tid bit. I think everyone here knows the facts released, but like me mentioned the majority of people are passing on inaccurate information. http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comm..._games_kinect/
    Last edited by MFmonster; 06-14-2013 at 11:02 AM.
    06-14-2013 10:49 AM
  10. Mystictrust's Avatar
    "social" type game which brodcasts users pictures to each other (for some reason UNO comes to mind... you had the option to display a video feed of yourself or your static gamer tag - Your choice BTW)
    omg, lol... "for some reason" indeed. UNO in particular was NOTORIOUS for gatherings of people with their little Xbox 360 cameras displaying video feeds of their junk. If you didn't go in and specifically turn off the ability to get video in-game (or restrict it to friends list) then you were in for a treat. Those were tough calls when I worked Xbox support (back before they outsourced us all to the Phillipines years ago), particularly when parents would scream about their kids being exposed to that kind of stuff. I think Microsoft learned their lesson with video in games, ahahaha.

    It was also a reason they never allowed custom avatar pics taken with the Xbox 360 cam to be shown to anyone outside of your friends list: people are crude
    06-14-2013 10:52 AM
  11. odoggyfresh's Avatar
    I loved the engineers comments, real or not. They all made sense to me and I think Microsoft should be trying to sell the idea that they can be like steam with lower prices. Also I agree that if you have any interest in stuff other than gaming, Xbox one is for you. Will be a great gaming console and more
    06-14-2013 10:58 AM
  12. bjd223's Avatar
    There is literally no logical reason to require a Kinect to be plugged in, beyond the ability to watch users. My unplugging my Kinect does not take money out of anyone's pocket, nor does it hamper the experience of others. Therefore, the only interpretation for "their vision" that fits that action is that their vision is to be able to spy on users. I don't want to see that implemented.
    What? they require a Kinect so developers don't need to code things twice. Otherwise they would have to detect whether you have a Kinect and then give you a particular experience based on this. This is a lot of work. Also right now the Kinect is a big differentiator compared to the useless PS Eye or whatever they are calling it.

    I hope the xbox games are a little bit cheaper, entire internet would go ape **** saying its not fair
    06-14-2013 11:11 AM
  13. Reflexx's Avatar
    On that note, it makes me think of a surprising number of people that I see at my university and elsewhere with sticky notes and tape covering up the webcam built-in to their laptops. It doesn't matter that there is actual hardware that will turn on a tiny white dot light next to it that shows when video is being recorded (note: no such rule about audio recordings, which is why recording lectures is invisible to anyone who looks at my laptop). The built-in webcams are significantly harder to rip out than, say, a tethered Kinect would be.

    I do trust that it can and will be fully shut off, as they say, but not everyone will. There will always be people with sticky notes on cameras.
    Those people really shouldn't get the XBOX ONE.

    It's not really that complicated.
    CoopII and mister2d like this.
    06-14-2013 11:17 AM
  14. Reflexx's Avatar
    Keith- You are entitled to your opinion and to believe what you want to believe. You can decide with your wallet or with your voice what you want as a consumer. Having options and the ability to make choices is a wonderful thing. You have concerns, and that is alright.

    I am not a patent expert, but the patent topic is not new. People are hired by MS, Apple, Google, Nokia, Samsung, etc to think up patents. Currently patents are huge for these companies and not unlike any other company they think of the future, beat others to the 'patent race'. The concept of tracking the number of people for movie rentals for example is one of those concepts. It has been fleshed out a while ago and explained this is not the plan, but simply a patent. There are probably a great deal of patents that never were used, or will be used. I remember reading on several Sony patents that never have been utilized. But, look at the money Nokia makes because of their patents.


    Here is an interesting tid bit. I think everyone here knows the facts released, but like me mentioned the majority of people are passing on inaccurate information. http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comm..._games_kinect/
    I think that patent might be used one day. But it won't happen without the consumer knowing about it. It would be clearly explained.

    The reason I think this is that new movies are having trouble competing with home theatres. People are waiting for BluRay.

    So movie studios are playing with the idea of releasing movies digitally for home viewers at the same time they are released at theatres.

    So far, they've been charging $50-$80 per viewing because they assume you have a party in the room.

    If it's just two people, it may be $30.
    06-14-2013 11:25 AM
  15. sinime's Avatar
    omg, lol... "for some reason" indeed. UNO in particular was NOTORIOUS for gatherings of people with their little Xbox 360 cameras displaying video feeds of their junk.
    Nice!

    I remember playing and I had my static gamer tag up... Anyhow, this one guy was going on about how he had this special gamer tag pic and it was so rare, yada, yada, yada... Anyhow, I positioned my camera over his gamer tag and switched to using a video feed, so I temporarily had the same gamer tag ;)

    Also reminds me of an off topic story, i was introducing my wife, well GF at the time, to IIRC and some guy started messaging her, wanting to know more about her. Well he wound up sending her a pic of himself with his junk hanging out and wanted a pic of her... I quickly took the pic he sent of himself and photoshopped feminine parts over his junk and sent it back to him as a photo of her... He stopped pestering her after that.
    Mystictrust likes this.
    06-14-2013 11:36 AM
  16. CoopII's Avatar
    Those people really shouldn't get the XBOX ONE.

    It's not really that complicated.
    I agree Not trying to be an A** but really if the features that most are ok with bother you so much then maybe this isn't the system for you. I find most complaints seem to be that the Xbox one wasn't built and tailored just for me with all the features I need or want to game.

    I remember where I lived having no internet and original Xbox Live just started and several friends where on it and going on about how great it was. Well if I was buying an Xbox to game online with no or flaky internet my beef isn't with the XBOX it's with the Internet. Same thing if you have no internet then maybe the 360 or even PS4 is where it is all for you. Sucks but that's just kind of how it is. The millions of people on Live now shouldn't have to be denied benefits or features so a smaller portion of people can play offline.

    CoopII
    06-14-2013 12:16 PM
  17. Huime's Avatar
    Technically these are all facts, but its a disaster to let an engineer to handle PR.
    DavidinCT likes this.
    06-14-2013 12:37 PM
  18. vertigoOne's Avatar
    I remember where I lived having no internet and original Xbox Live just started and several friends where on it and going on about how great it was. Well if I was buying an Xbox to game online with no or flaky internet my beef isn't with the XBOX it's with the Internet. Same thing if you have no internet then maybe the 360 or even PS4 is where it is all for you. Sucks but that's just kind of how it is. The millions of people on Live now shouldn't have to be denied benefits or features so a smaller portion of people can play offline.

    CoopII
    And who is to say that the strain that this new system creates does not help to reinforce the idea that the current infrastructure needs to improve overall? I say push it till it breaks so that the ISPs get the hint.
    06-14-2013 12:38 PM
  19. onysi's Avatar
    oh my god!!! So Microsoft is doing the Steam model!!! I LOVE THIS!!!
    06-14-2013 12:44 PM
  20. tekhna's Avatar
    sigh... really, why dont you just wrap with foil the Kinect after you make your awesome tin foil hat, so you would be sure to block any magical spying power?

    when will you stop your.......behaviour? for all your posts you have written, you are not even getting Xbox One, so why are you so worried about it having Kinect? you don't even know what it does, how it will do it. but hey the engineer says you can turn the system off completely, so at least none would spy you while the xbox is off *sarcasm*

    why are you even in Internet if you are so afraid of someone spying on you? (well you are the one making this stupid "spying theory" not me) you know.. internet = make it easier for someone to spy you and know about you. but but... you know what is this site about? about windows PHONE. you know... phones have cameras, or are you using a non existent consumer windows phone with no camera? or maybe you cover the camera with a tape or something? wow.. just start to sell your tv, your computer, your cameras, your phones because EVERYONE is and will spy you!!. you are so interesting everyone wants to spy you *sarcasm again obviously.*

    the vision with Microsoft and Kinect is one.. if you don't like it, just don't get it. if you cant even see (and they showed it) why Microsoft wants Kinect on it, in every xbox one sold, then you are really blind and you have no vision for an innovative future. there is no proves or anything to back up your amazing spying theory anyway... or do you have one? oh well, I know you have nothing to back it up. next retard story/rumor/complain theory please?
    but have a good day! :)
    The NSA can't wait for a Google Glass and Kinect in every home in America!
    Mystictrust likes this.
    06-14-2013 12:55 PM
  21. paulxxwall's Avatar
    Not one single game I play uses or implemented Kinect bf4, cod, halo nba14, so why can't I be offers an Xbox with out a Kinect save them for those who use it and like it that's the reason I didn't have one in the first place I want an Xbox one but not the Kinect it would save me 100$ towards more games
    06-14-2013 12:57 PM
  22. CoopII's Avatar
    And who is to say that the strain that this new system creates does not help to reinforce the idea that the current infrastructure needs to improve overall? I say push it till it breaks so that the ISPs get the hint.
    Oh I once again agree the ISP providers are in a profit first mentality as any company should be but what I don't like is amount of profit they feel they need to make. Making 1Billion profit means they may spend 1 Million is updating the infrastructure yet making 999Million means they spend 0 on infrastructure. Drives me nuts I mean how much profit do they really need?

    My own case is right outside my House there is a fiber optics line right next to where my telephone lines come into my house. Since Cable internet isn't an option in my area I am stuck with 6-7Mbps DSL. Phone company says no Fiber in my area I am like then what hell am I looking at. A phone tech said ya that's fiber but to terminate it and run it into your home they are looking at least two years to turn a profit from me to do the work even if I sub to the highest package. So they wont do it but the new subdivision going in down the road has it because once again no cable option so if they want internet then They pay for fiber so they see a quicker higher profit margin to the cost of work being done. This is from a smallish town with really only one Cable Provider that does not go to where I live and then only three or 4 ISP's offering DSL and one offering Fibe.

    CoopII
    06-14-2013 01:00 PM
  23. Robert Carpenter's Avatar
    Oh I once again agree the ISP providers are in a profit first mentality as any company should be but what I don't like is amount of profit they feel they need to make. Making 1Billion profit means they may spend 1 Million is updating the infrastructure yet making 999Million means they spend 0 on infrastructure. Drives me nuts I mean how much profit do they really need?
    They could also spend 500 billion dollars on infrastructure and make 501 billion dollars in return. That equals 1 billion dollars in profit also.
    06-14-2013 01:03 PM
  24. CoopII's Avatar
    I'd like to save $100 plus too. But you wont get the programmers to make any advancements in game play if only a small percentage of the installed Base owns the equipment. Why would you waste dev cycles on Kinect if only 10% to 50% own one. I like the eye tracking they are talking about. I can see how in a FPS you running into a battle something catches your eye to the right you slightly turn your head and boom the screen moved right to where you are looking and all this while still pressing only forward. Talk about being immersed in a game and feeling more a part of the environment. I am excited to see what they can do with this not as the sole control of the game but as added function to how I already play.

    Even with all the negative press I am really excited to get my new Xbox and see what it can do and then 2 years from now say OMG has this ever got better and better.

    CoopII
    06-14-2013 01:06 PM
  25. Mystictrust's Avatar
    It just seems to say "the Kinect can read and react to more-subtle movements." That just tells me I won't have to flail AS spectacularly as I did trying to get Kinect Disneyland Adventures to figure out what I was trying to do.
    LMAO... Just place one of those wacky waving inflatable arm flailing tube men in front of Kinect and get 100% of the achievements in Kinect Disneyland Adventures in 10 minutes. LOL!!



    Seriously though, the new Kinect has finger tracking. You can use your finger as a cursor. I saw a demo of some game that followed their finger accurately and precisely on the screen as they were making a movement. I knew the old Kinect had some potential but it also had a ton of its own limitations, therefore not a bunch of uses in games "augmented" by the Kinect. One of the more "accurate" uses of Kinect v1 augmentation was showcased on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon, where you could angle your foot as if stepping on a gas pedal and it would accelerate a vehicle. Maybe that was also shown at a few other places as well. But it never took off or got incorporated into any actual uses - it was a tech demo, at any rate, using a racing game not built with Kinect in mind.

    While some of the games coming out will have you flailing your arms about, tracking finger movements, etc... other games will be shaking off Zombies if you move your body around slightly while still holding the controller. Or tracking your eye movement to look in rearview mirror of a car. Or tracking the natural leans you may do in a game where you are turning or excited and translate that in-game. And imagine the potential for the Fitness games... probably the only games that really took advantage of the Kinect (along with Dance Central)... the accuracy will be incredible. I want the system to be able to tell that I am twisting my body just a little too far, or rotating my arm the wrong direction, or what have you. And actually, Keith, have you seen the demonstrations that came out before E3 - with the people standing in the room and actually showing both on and off screen how the Kinect was tracking each individual movement (twists, turns, etc) of a person's body? And being able to see them not only in the dark, but in a wide variety of super bright lighting situations, thanks to the variety of different cameras and camera technologies built in to the new Kinect. If you haven't seen it, I will gladly go search up a link for you to watch, because it's fairly incredible. Even if you personally will never use it, you've got to at least respect the technology.

    Either way, I'm just responding to a small portion of your post that I missed on my Windows Phone browsing through the forums. I know you have a lot of other concerns.
    Last edited by Mystictrust; 06-14-2013 at 01:24 PM.
    DavidinCT likes this.
    06-14-2013 01:08 PM
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