06-17-2013 07:12 PM
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  1. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Ok then Keith, like a few of us have said. Wait till release, then check out an X1, perhaps give it a few months and then decide what your going to do.
    That's the logical thing to do.
    Perhaps you can let us know at that time how you got on as its pointless having post after post on something that you ain't 100% sure what it will turn out like.
    See you in 6 months or so...
    Yes, because if I am not 100% sold on buying the Xbox One on June 17th, 2013, I should completely avoid reading about or discussing the console for 6 months. I shouldn't speak up against what I don't like. I shouldn't point out what I do like. I shouldn't discuss how I think Microsoft could improve the console.

    If people took this ridiculous route of never discussing things that they didn't like, nothing would ever improve. If there wasn't that backlash about the initially-theorized always-on requirement for the Xbox One, it might have ended up becoming a real feature (not saying that I think or know it would, just speaking hypothetically).
    06-17-2013 04:19 PM
  2. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Keith. Lots of people have been trying to tell you this. NO ONE is making you buy the Kinect. It does come with the Xbox One. If you don't want the Kinect, you shouldn't buy the Xbox One. Repeat NO ONE is making you buy the Kinect. You want a product that isn't being offered. Sorry about that, but that's what it comes down to.
    Oh, shut up. You act as if I do not know what the hell is going on, but that is not even close to the case. Reading these kinds of comments makes me want to punch someone, really.

    I KNOW THAT I DO NOT HAVE TO BUY THE CONSOLE.

    You have to learn some darned reading comprehension or something. I've stated that I would prefer to buy the console without the Kinect. I've stated I would prefer multiple things changed. I've never once said, "if I am unable to buy this without the Kinect, I won't buy it at all." I've stated that the combination of things I do not like as of now is what would keep me from buying the console. I've never said that I had a gun to my head about buying the Kinect. I said that IF I DECIDE TO BUY THE CONSOLE, I HAVE TO BUY THE KINECT. Whether or not I actually DO buy the console is not relevant to the matter, really. Whether or not I buy the console or not, it IS required to buy the Kinect if you buy the console. Whether or not I buy the console, I'd prefer to not have to buy the Kinect with it.

    I can voice my opinion without having people like you spew stupid assumptions about what I am saying and thinking, and you're completely wrong about what you are saying on all accounts. I don't want to buy the Kinect with the console, but that does not mean that I should not buy the console whatsoever. If I determine that the pros are greater than the cons (one of which being the included Kinect price), then I will have determined that I still SHOULD buy the Xbox One, Kinect or not.

    Shut up about the whole "don't buy the console if you don't like the Kinect," all of you. Seriously, I've never said it was an end-all dealbreaker that 100% had to change to have me interested in purchasing the console, so don't treat my statements as if I hold that belief.
    06-17-2013 04:26 PM
  3. Reflexx's Avatar
    Oh, shut up. You act as if I do not know what the hell is going on, but that is not even close to the case. Reading these kinds of comments makes me want to punch someone, really.

    I KNOW THAT I DO NOT HAVE TO BUY THE CONSOLE.

    You have to learn some darned reading comprehension or something. I've stated that I would prefer to buy the console without the Kinect. I've stated I would prefer multiple things changed. I've never once said, "if I am unable to buy this without the Kinect, I won't buy it at all." I've stated that the combination of things I do not like as of now is what would keep me from buying the console. I've never said that I had a gun to my head about buying the Kinect. I said that IF I DECIDE TO BUY THE CONSOLE, I HAVE TO BUY THE KINECT. Whether or not I actually DO buy the console is not relevant to the matter, really. Whether or not I buy the console or not, it IS required to buy the Kinect if you buy the console. Whether or not I buy the console, I'd prefer to not have to buy the Kinect with it.

    I can voice my opinion without having people like you spew stupid assumptions about what I am saying and thinking, and you're completely wrong about what you are saying on all accounts. I don't want to buy the Kinect with the console, but that does not mean that I should not buy the console whatsoever. If I determine that the pros are greater than the cons (one of which being the included Kinect price), then I will have determined that I still SHOULD buy the Xbox One, Kinect or not.

    Shut up about the whole "don't buy the console if you don't like the Kinect," all of you. Seriously, I've never said it was an end-all dealbreaker that 100% had to change to have me interested in purchasing the console, so don't treat my statements as if I hold that belief.
    Okay. You understand that you don't have to buy it.

    But when you say that MS forces a Kinect on you, it can easily be misinterpreted.

    Also keep in mind that MS has stated multiple times that the Kinect is a part of the console. It's not separate. So maybe people believe you don't understand because you keep repeating that you want it separated.
    06-17-2013 04:47 PM
  4. someoneinwa's Avatar
    So, Keith. I am glad to see you know that no one will make you buy an Xbox One. My reading comprehension is just fine, and it was pretty clear that you were the one having difficulty explaining your position clearly because I wasn't the only who wasn't getting your point. And I don't recall any of the posters who have politely engaged you on the thread to threaten to punch someone or get insulting as you have now done.
    06-17-2013 05:03 PM
  5. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    But when you say that MS forces a Kinect on you, it can easily be misinterpreted.

    Also keep in mind that MS has stated multiple times that the Kinect is a part of the console. It's not separate. So maybe people believe you don't understand because you keep repeating that you want it separated.
    It only gets misinterpreted by zealots who cannot use common sense and basic comprehension skills. If they think that anyone believes there to be a legal obligation for everyone to buy an Xbox One, then that's an issue of stupidity that I'm not going to account for. I don't want to speak in 4,000 words to make everything 100% clear to people without basic cognitive functions. Of course I don't think that EVERYONE is being forced to get a Kinect, but those who buy the console are forced to get a Kinect, like it or not. Yeah, I get it's not 100% clear what I said, but some things are implied so blatantly that they might as well be.

    Oh, and just because the two are intertwined doesn't mean that I don't understand in the slightest. If you get a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, and I see that and want just a peanut butter sandwich, it doesn't mean that I don't get that it's unrealistic to expect someone to take a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and get every bit of the jelly out for me. It just means that I'd like to be able to make a sandwich without jelly. In that same respect, just because I want to be able to remove the Kinect requirement, it does not mean that I do not understand that it is there. That I want the two separated doesn't mean that I don't get that they aren't separate, only that the combination isn't my preferred method of delivery.
    06-17-2013 05:04 PM
  6. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    So, Keith. I am glad to see you know that no one will make you buy an Xbox One. My reading comprehension is just fine, and it was pretty clear that you were the one having difficulty explaining your position clearly because I wasn't the only who wasn't getting your point. And I don't recall any of the posters who have politely engaged you on the thread to threaten to punch someone or get insulting as you have now done.
    No, it's not clear that people didn't get my point. It was clear that people wanted to take my statements to the extreme and make assumptions about what I do and do not like. I've stated that I do not like the Kinect requirement. I have stated that I do not intend to get an Xbox One right now, in the form that we know it to exist today. I've never said that the two are 100% related to each other and nothing else once.

    Also, I never threatened anyone. I stated that I am pushed to a level of frustration that punching would help alleviate, not that I would do it. The reason I say this is because you are probably the fifth person (at the minimum) to regurgitate the statement that you did to me, and each and every time, it's an insult to act as if I do not know something as simple as the fact that I am not required to buy the console.

    The reason no one's responded to my statements in the manner that I just did is because I have not openly insulted anyone's intelligence or reasoning capabilities as the statement you made did. I'm not offended, but I hate reading the same statement over and over, especially when I have already responded to it several times already.
    06-17-2013 05:10 PM
  7. spaulagain's Avatar
    So Keith, can you buy a new Xbox 360 without the hand controller? Last I checked, you can't. Because it's an integral part of the console. The same goes for the Kinect with the X1.

    This isn't complicated. In fact, keeping it separate is more complicated. So either accept the fact it is required, or don't buy it.

    There really is nothing to discuss. Microsoft's requirement for Kinect is logical and will not change. At this point stating otherwise is just another frivolous attempt to b!tch about Microsoft and how they are forcing me" or "screwing me over" yada yada yada.
    06-17-2013 05:18 PM
  8. Mystictrust's Avatar
    But you know Keith, the truth of the matter is, Microsoft has made the jelly a permanent part of your peanut butter and jelly sandwich - its so mixed in that they can't scrape it off. Right now, they've advanced your sandwich so that you have the option of making it taste better by saying, "Sandwich, enhance!". And future sandwich makers know that everyone must have this jelly and have all this power to make your sandwich glow in the dark so you can eat easily while watching a movie, or maybe it jumps into your hand when you make a particular wrist motion. That's the new sandwich, love it or leave it.

    That's like saying you want a version of the Xbox (or any console) without a DVD drive - because you don't find it useful at all, and you don't use discs. How about when the 360 came along and forced the broadband connection on everyone? People were pissed they were forced to use broadband. But Microsoft wanted to enhance their next system with a fast experience where there would be a minimum level of service expectation. Kinect 2.0 is part of the Xbox One because that is their vision to improving their system. They would have built it in if it was feasible, but they explained that consoles aren't always out facing the user. Maybe they should have permanently attached it with some sort of modular cabling system so it would be recognized as an actual part of the system? Like not wanting to use discs anymore but still being stuck with the drive, or perhaps like when the systems were forced into broadband... Or heck, now there is only the option of hdmi. They designed the entire system that way.

    Again, they wouldn't pick and choose parts of it to remove because people wouldn't use them. They did give you the option of using the Kinect (unlike the forced HDMI and broadband) just like you have with disc vs digital download, by letting you turn the Kinect features off. But, since it is part of the system and not an accessory, it stays attached. It is part of the system, part of the experience and vision they have and want everyone to experience. The kinect IS the xbox one.

    We all ended up trying and liking digital downloads. Now the industry is headed that way and so many things are digital now. Microsoft's vision for their Xbox One system includes touchless control, that's just how it is.

    Anyway, I've been typing this ridiculously long message from the wpcentral app. And I typed so much that the rest of my text is invisible and I can't see it. I trust my words are coming across. But yeah, you can't disconnect a fundamental, actual part of their new Xbox one design. Hmm, maybe it would have been better if Kinect never came out previously and they just put this out as part of everything from the get go. Maybe that would have worked.

    Still can't see my typing. I'm gonna go now.
    06-17-2013 05:42 PM
  9. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    I agree, it's just like wanting a console without a disc drive. There is even a thread about that here. However, I want to make two points about that comparison, because it's a good one:

    1. I don't believe that in the thread, I ever told the person not to buy a console if he doesn't like the drive, even though I disagree that it should be optional. I didn't tell the guy to go away and stop discussing things because his preference isn't reality. I simply replied with my opinion about how losing the drive would alter the effectiveness of the console. I discussed the opposing view on the usefulness of the drive, while many here decide to take the "if you don't like it, then get out," route.

    2. Again, I think that the comparison is a good one. There are some differences, though. If you take away the inclusion of the Kinect, it does not take away the ability to purchase it as an accessory and use it. If you take out the disc drive and make everything all-digital, it is different because the disc drive is not a standalone accessory that you can purchase if you want it. If there was a direct comparison to where they would lower the price of the Xbox and make the disc drive an optional accessory, I wouldn't even have a problem with that. It's pretty much the biggest benefit of PCs--you can pick and choose what you want. I know that the level of flexibility involved there is part of what makes PC gaming unattractive though, and the simplicity of the single-build nature of a console is a plus. I would support making the concept of lowering the Xbox One's price to make the drive an optional accessory, though I would have to think that there would be an option to have it pre-installed via Microsoft, if you want it, because some people cannot handle such a task.

    There is also one glaring difference between the comparison that I should point out, particularly because I have brought it up before: Familiarity. The disc drive has been the primary form of delivering home console media since, what, 1994 (it released in Japan in '94, '95 for the rest of the world)? Expecting an immediate switch is a bit unreasonable, and that's what I've tried to point out with the Kinect. Prove that it is desirable and capable before you make it a required part of the system. I believe that we're only one (MAYBE two) generations from a no-disc console experience. It might even be that the likely hardware refresh we see with this upcoming generation includes an Xbox One with no disc drive. I've stated that I don't necessarily have an issue with requiring a Kinect purchase with a console, but it should be proven as a premium technology beforehand. Imagine if the first Kinect was a required product for Xbox 360 consumers, and that the original Xbox released at $500 for the 20GB model. The first Kinect was, and is, a sub-par technology for most people. I think that there would have been a big problem with having people find out that they had a $100 accessory thrust upon them, but it's no good. That's my fear with the Xbox One, that the new Kinect refresh isn't proven as a big-enough upgrade from the first to warrant system integration just yet.

    But yes, back to the PB&J analogy. I get that the two are intertwined. That does not make me like it, though I might tolerate it (under the right circumstances). That also does not mean that I can't voice a dissenting opinion without having my intelligence insulted and being told to leave for 6 months, once I have a firm decision made on a purchase.

    Oh, and since that analogy is out there: Peanut butter is great. Jelly is great. Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are great. Very few (and no one I've spoken to) like that nasty jar of crap where they put the two together pre-sandwich. Just because two things work well together doesn't mean that they should be inseparable.
    06-17-2013 06:09 PM
  10. HeyCori's Avatar
    Tempers are a bit out of control. Let's call it a day for this thread.
    06-17-2013 07:12 PM
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