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blzr409

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>The thing is, the DRM is really really similar to steam... You can login anywhere and play your games, anyone in your house can play with the family xbox. The only diff is steam you have to sign in before playing, and Xbox does it automatically at night for you (once per 24 hours)
That's not really true. I've left Steam in offline mode for weeks without having to sign in to play offline games.

>Think about it, on steam you get a game for the true cost of the game, 5$-30$. On a console you have to pay for that PLUS any additional licenses for when you sell / trade / borrow / etc. If the developer / publisher can't get it on additional licenses (like steam), then they charge the first person more. [...] If we say "Hey publishers, you limit game to 39.99, we ensure every license transfer you get 10$, gamestop gets 20$" that is a decent model... Microsoft gets a license fee on first and subsequent game purchases, compared to just first now? That's a revenue increase.
Again not quite true. Steam does often have crazy sales, but when games launch they're generally $5-10 cheaper than the console version at most. Often they're the full $60 price.
 
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That's not really true. I've left Steam in offline mode for weeks without having to sign in to play offline games.


Again not quite true. Steam does often have crazy sales, but when games launch they're generally $5-10 cheaper than the console version at most. Often they're the full $60 price.

Tradeoffs my friend. Xbox One would be identical to steam, and allow an offline mode, but people complained about used games. Steam doesn't have used games, so it allows them to implement an "offline mode". If Xbox One gets rid of used games completely, then they can get rid of the 24-hour online check.
 

vertigoOne

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There is literally no logical reason to require a Kinect to be plugged in, beyond the ability to watch users. My unplugging my Kinect does not take money out of anyone's pocket, nor does it hamper the experience of others. Therefore, the only interpretation for "their vision" that fits that action is that their vision is to be able to spy on users. I don't want to see that implemented.

Is it logical for Microsoft to design the ENTIRE interface of the Xbox One around voice and gesture controls and then not require the Kinect to be attached?

Nobody complains that you cannot remove the HDD while you play...because THAT would be illogical. Kinect is as integral as the HDD in the Xbox One, simple as that.

I hear a lot of people saying that they are not even going to use the Kinect...but I would like them to return in a few years and say that they are still not using the Kinect. Honestly, I have tapped d-pads and thumb sticks around on virtual keyboards for far too long already, it is time for technology to make the experience more convenient.
 

ncxcstud

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I have a Kinect, and I don't use it all the time and I don't play all the Kinect games for it.

However, I see the potential, and have seen the potential since MS showed it off a few years ago at E3.

I will say this - it is a lot easier to say XBOX Bing __________ than it is going to the bing search page on the 360 and typing _________ in. Or saying XBOX Netflix or HBO Go.

Even in the games, it has been fun to see the addons they've put in there in an attempt to supplement the game. Its kind of neat that Forza Horizon and Forza 4 track my head movement. But, the current Kinect is so imprecise that its just a gimmicky feature and is more obnoxious than its worth - though it is neat. With Kinect 2.0, it appears that it'll be able to track my actual EYE MOVEMENT so it will be more lifelike if I want to look in the rearview mirror.

Keith - you may not believe in MS's decision to require the Kinect itself, but I think Mystic's point is spot on. I think the pros far out weigh the cons with Kinect integration (and the One in general). I'm excited to see the future MS is gearing for. It should be fun.
 

ninjaap

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The point is that it is what it is. There's a reason and purpose behind it.

You dont have to like it. You dont have to understand. You dont have to agree.

You can get something else.

I, for one, look forward to seeing their vision implemented. And I hope that they don't bow down to pressure from people that want to gimp that.

I like the part where the engineer says:

...If you always want to stay with what you have, then keep current consoles, or a PS4. We?re TRYING to move the industry forwards...

It reminds me of what Windows 8/RT is going through right now. They are trying to move the PC forward, but people just won't budge. Stick with Windows 7 then! Stick with PS4 or 360 then!
 

Keith Wallace

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sigh... really, why dont you just wrap with foil the Kinect after you make your awesome tin foil hat, so you would be sure to block any magical spying power?

when will you stop your.......behaviour? for all your posts you have written, you are not even getting Xbox One, so why are you so worried about it having Kinect? you don't even know what it does, how it will do it. but hey the engineer says you can turn the system off completely, so at least none would spy you while the xbox is off *sarcasm*

why are you even in Internet if you are so afraid of someone spying on you? (well you are the one making this stupid "spying theory" not me) you know.. internet = make it easier for someone to spy you and know about you. but but... you know what is this site about? about windows PHONE. you know... phones have cameras, or are you using a non existent consumer windows phone with no camera? or maybe you cover the camera with a tape or something? wow.. just start to sell your tv, your computer, your cameras, your phones because EVERYONE is and will spy you!!. you are so interesting everyone wants to spy you *sarcasm again obviously.*

the vision with Microsoft and Kinect is one.. if you don't like it, just don't get it. if you cant even see (and they showed it) why Microsoft wants Kinect on it, in every xbox one sold, then you are really blind and you have no vision for an innovative future. there is no proves or anything to back up your amazing spying theory anyway... or do you have one? oh well, I know you have nothing to back it up. next retard story/rumor/complain theory please?
but have a good day! :)

Well, I think we can answer your ridiculous question of why I am on the Internet VERY easily. My concern with that is related to the Kinect. It functions like a webcam in that respect. I do not possess a webcam, so there is no camera on my computer for anyone to watch what I do.

See, what I don't get with all of these people disagreeing with my opinion on plugging the Kinect in is that most seem to just want to say "it's not a big deal to do it." They're not saying (with the exception of Mystictrust, who seems to be the only one who cares to actually UNDERSTAND what I am saying and have an intelligent discussion) WHY I am wrong. I mean, Winning Guy say it's because they want it to function as a "personal assistant," and that's fine. That doesn't explain the 100% requirement of usage. You want to sit can call me "paranoid," and "retarded," simply because I don't want to plug in my Kinect. You say I'm overblowing the intent here, but it's more that I don't want to support the OPPORTUNITY to spy in the future (be it with the Xbox One's Kinect or other household visual hardware, like a webcam). I'm not saying that it WILL happen, just that I don't like the thought of having it happen. Call it something out of 1984 that can never happen all you want, but the thought of a camera that must be given power for the console to work has the POTENTIAL to be used for the purpose of spying. Oh, and for all of the thoughts of safety in the Terms of Use, remember that this government forces the collection of people's phone records without telling them and that we've had illegal wiretapping scandals. The American government loves to work outside of the law as much as possible, and they could certainly call out "national security" or "Patriot Act" to attempt to justify spying with the Kinect, if they wanted. Again, it's not a matter of I'm saying something WILL happen, just that I don't like the possibility of it.

You're also failing to read the entirety of my posts, it seems, which is how you jump to the conclusion of my not getting an Xbox One. I've stated that based on the current, concrete evidence present at the time ($500 price tag, Kinect purchase required, 24-hour check-in, Kinect present to run, only letting someone who is friends on LIVE for 30 to borrow a game, and only ONCE, etc.), I would not be interested in purchasing an Xbox One. That is not a statement that there is no way I would buy one, only a statement that the then-current information would keep me from buying the console.

Now, if you were to actually read all of my posts (not that I expect you to, as that's a stupid request), you'll see that I've liked some of the newer information available. That this guy claims that the Kinect can be 100% powered down is a plus, though my legitimately-paranoid (not even trying to hide that fact) curiosity there is if Microsoft can override that powered-down command and start it up, or if they'll just have so many things require the Kinect to be running that shutting it down isn't an option for many features.

(Example: Microsoft was shown filing a patent for a system in which the Kinect was used to watch for how many people were in a room while a video rental was being watched. The rental cost was based on a per-person attendance, and if more people entered the room, the Kinect would see that and stop the movie to require another license be purchased to support more viewers. In that case, it might be that they would not allow video rentals to be played with the Kinect turned off.)

I've also liked the fleshing out of the ten "family member" groups that has received some clarity. If it's true that a single license can be shared fully among 10 users, and multiple users can access the game simultaneously, that's a big deal in lowering software costs for users. If they follow the Steam model of big, frequent sales to keep game costs low, that's a plus as well. That kind of stuff is what I'm reading up on still, because those kinds of features can change my mind on getting the Xbox One.

Where you seem to be mistaken is that I've got this concrete decision to never purchase an Xbox One. However, I'm still here discussing it because I'm, in fact, trying to get more information on how it works, because additional information is what will decide if I ultimately purchase the system or now.
 

ninjaap

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There is literally no logical reason to require a Kinect to be plugged in, beyond the ability to watch users. My unplugging my Kinect does not take money out of anyone's pocket, nor does it hamper the experience of others. Therefore, the only interpretation for "their vision" that fits that action is that their vision is to be able to spy on users. I don't want to see that implemented.

I don't see people trying to rip out PC or mobile cameras? The Kinect can be turned off, just like PC and mobile phone cameras.
 

Mystictrust

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I don't see people trying to rip out PC or mobile cameras? The Kinect can be turned off, just like PC and mobile phone cameras.
On that note, it makes me think of a surprising number of people that I see at my university and elsewhere with sticky notes and tape covering up the webcam built-in to their laptops. It doesn't matter that there is actual hardware that will turn on a tiny white dot light next to it that shows when video is being recorded (note: no such rule about audio recordings, which is why recording lectures is invisible to anyone who looks at my laptop). The built-in webcams are significantly harder to rip out than, say, a tethered Kinect would be.

I do trust that it can and will be fully shut off, as they say, but not everyone will. There will always be people with sticky notes on cameras.
 

MFmonster

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.............He's very blunt, but I do like what he is saying. Truly Microsoft or not, it makes sense to me, pulling a Steam-like gaming business model. For the console world, it's kind of pushing everyone kicking and screaming into the next generation, driving innovation, etc. We have no idea if prices will drop like crazy, or if Microsoft can (or will) offer crazy Steam-like price sales, but it certainly CAN be a possibility that prices in the mainstream console gaming industry could DROP as a result of this - at least for titles on the Xbox. Maybe physical discs, maybe digital-only versions, maybe only for the non-powerhouse publishers (*ahem* no way would it ever be Electronic Art$)... it could happen

I truly hope this is the direction the console goes. I rarely sell my games and I have a large collection. It takes up space and my youngest loves to destroy the order I create and I spend time reorganizing the cases instead of playing games at times. :) I LOVE the idea of my games in the cloud and saving space and having access to them quickly. At first I did not like the idea of not owning the physical copy, but I have changed when the last year Xbox Live began offering some games for cheap. Picking up Games on Demand for $5-20 dollars is great. When I would buy used I usually look for the $10-20 range for most games and it can take months to get at that price point. I am still waiting for DMC to hit $20 New. It wasn't until this past year MS really began putting great sales on Games on Demand and it I get the feeling Steam and it's pricing will translate to Xbox One.
 

sinime

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Where you seem to be mistaken is that I've got this concrete decision to never purchase an Xbox One. However, I'm still here discussing it because I'm, in fact, trying to get more information on how it works, because additional information is what will decide if I ultimately purchase the system or now.

It's not going to be streaming you sitting on the couch in undies to the peeps on the interwebs while you watch TV, unless your on Skype ;)

Unless your on skype or a "social" type game which brodcasts users pictures to each other (for some reason UNO comes to mind... you had the option to display a video feed of yourself or your static gamer tag - Your choice BTW), the voice and image data will only be used localy.

Have you looked at this article yet?...

Don't flinch: the new Kinect could be the end of motion gimmicks | The Verge
 

Reflexx

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People simply want to hv something to fuss about. I'm excited n can't wait for Xbox one. Like I told someone on the Xbox forums... Be thankful you hv MS building such machines... If it wasn't for these guys and others we would b outside throwing rocks in a pond... Counting the ripples and keeping score.

Hey! That can be fun!
 

Keith Wallace

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I don't see people trying to rip out PC or mobile cameras? The Kinect can be turned off, just like PC and mobile phone cameras.

The reason for that being:

1. I don't have a PC camera. That doesn't apply to me, so I can't answer that.
2. A mobile camera doesn't have the viewing angle of a Kinect. When I've got my phone pointed at anything, it's when I am reading or playing a game. All that can be seen is my face. With a Kinect, it could see a whole room, from what I own to what I'm wearing.
3. I wouldn't be as annoyed with the issue (nor would I expect as much complaining) if the Kinect was a built-in piece of the console, and not an accessory. I guess the simple solution there is to THINK of it as part of the console, but I still don't like it. I just think it's that the Kinect has a greater chance at receiving lots of information about its surroundings than the others, so people have more of a problem with it.
 

Keith Wallace

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It's not going to be streaming you sitting on the couch in undies to the peeps on the interwebs while you watch TV, unless your on Skype ;)

Unless your on skype or a "social" type game which brodcasts users pictures to each other (for some reason UNO comes to mind... you had the option to display a video feed of yourself or your static gamer tag - Your choice BTW), the voice and image data will only be used localy.

Have you looked at this article yet?...

Don't flinch: the new Kinect could be the end of motion gimmicks | The Verge

I don't really get the point of the article, honestly. It just seems to say "the Kinect can read and react to more-subtle movements." That just tells me I won't have to flail AS spectacularly as I did trying to get Kinect Disneyland Adventures to figure out what I was trying to do. It doesn't seem to really offer anything to what we're discussing.

Also, the UNO example...its was the WOOOOORST. For starters, people liked to show you their butts with the camera and such, which was annoying. Secondly, people would boot you from games for NOT using a camera. All that does is offer me an example of the negatives of image-based gaming, because UNO was one of the worst social experiences I've had in gaming.
 

MFmonster

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Keith- You are entitled to your opinion and to believe what you want to believe. You can decide with your wallet or with your voice what you want as a consumer. Having options and the ability to make choices is a wonderful thing. You have concerns, and that is alright.

I am not a patent expert, but the patent topic is not new. People are hired by MS, Apple, Google, Nokia, Samsung, etc to think up patents. Currently patents are huge for these companies and not unlike any other company they think of the future, beat others to the 'patent race'. The concept of tracking the number of people for movie rentals for example is one of those concepts. It has been fleshed out a while ago and explained this is not the plan, but simply a patent. There are probably a great deal of patents that never were used, or will be used. I remember reading on several Sony patents that never have been utilized. But, look at the money Nokia makes because of their patents.


Here is an interesting tid bit. I think everyone here knows the facts released, but like me mentioned the majority of people are passing on inaccurate information. http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/1g8t5e/lets_clear_up_the_issues_used_games_kinect/
 
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Mystictrust

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"social" type game which brodcasts users pictures to each other (for some reason UNO comes to mind... you had the option to display a video feed of yourself or your static gamer tag - Your choice BTW)
omg, lol... "for some reason" indeed. UNO in particular was NOTORIOUS for gatherings of people with their little Xbox 360 cameras displaying video feeds of their junk. If you didn't go in and specifically turn off the ability to get video in-game (or restrict it to friends list) then you were in for a treat. Those were tough calls when I worked Xbox support (back before they outsourced us all to the Phillipines years ago), particularly when parents would scream about their kids being exposed to that kind of stuff. I think Microsoft learned their lesson with video in games, ahahaha.

It was also a reason they never allowed custom avatar pics taken with the Xbox 360 cam to be shown to anyone outside of your friends list: people are crude
 

odoggyfresh

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I loved the engineers comments, real or not. They all made sense to me and I think Microsoft should be trying to sell the idea that they can be like steam with lower prices. Also I agree that if you have any interest in stuff other than gaming, Xbox one is for you. Will be a great gaming console and more
 

bjd223

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There is literally no logical reason to require a Kinect to be plugged in, beyond the ability to watch users. My unplugging my Kinect does not take money out of anyone's pocket, nor does it hamper the experience of others. Therefore, the only interpretation for "their vision" that fits that action is that their vision is to be able to spy on users. I don't want to see that implemented.
What? they require a Kinect so developers don't need to code things twice. Otherwise they would have to detect whether you have a Kinect and then give you a particular experience based on this. This is a lot of work. Also right now the Kinect is a big differentiator compared to the useless PS Eye or whatever they are calling it.

I hope the xbox games are a little bit cheaper, entire internet would go ape **** saying its not fair
 

Reflexx

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On that note, it makes me think of a surprising number of people that I see at my university and elsewhere with sticky notes and tape covering up the webcam built-in to their laptops. It doesn't matter that there is actual hardware that will turn on a tiny white dot light next to it that shows when video is being recorded (note: no such rule about audio recordings, which is why recording lectures is invisible to anyone who looks at my laptop). The built-in webcams are significantly harder to rip out than, say, a tethered Kinect would be.

I do trust that it can and will be fully shut off, as they say, but not everyone will. There will always be people with sticky notes on cameras.

Those people really shouldn't get the XBOX ONE.

It's not really that complicated.
 

Reflexx

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Keith- You are entitled to your opinion and to believe what you want to believe. You can decide with your wallet or with your voice what you want as a consumer. Having options and the ability to make choices is a wonderful thing. You have concerns, and that is alright.

I am not a patent expert, but the patent topic is not new. People are hired by MS, Apple, Google, Nokia, Samsung, etc to think up patents. Currently patents are huge for these companies and not unlike any other company they think of the future, beat others to the 'patent race'. The concept of tracking the number of people for movie rentals for example is one of those concepts. It has been fleshed out a while ago and explained this is not the plan, but simply a patent. There are probably a great deal of patents that never were used, or will be used. I remember reading on several Sony patents that never have been utilized. But, look at the money Nokia makes because of their patents.


Here is an interesting tid bit. I think everyone here knows the facts released, but like me mentioned the majority of people are passing on inaccurate information. http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/1g8t5e/lets_clear_up_the_issues_used_games_kinect/

I think that patent might be used one day. But it won't happen without the consumer knowing about it. It would be clearly explained.

The reason I think this is that new movies are having trouble competing with home theatres. People are waiting for BluRay.

So movie studios are playing with the idea of releasing movies digitally for home viewers at the same time they are released at theatres.

So far, they've been charging $50-$80 per viewing because they assume you have a party in the room.

If it's just two people, it may be $30.
 

sinime

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omg, lol... "for some reason" indeed. UNO in particular was NOTORIOUS for gatherings of people with their little Xbox 360 cameras displaying video feeds of their junk.

Nice!

I remember playing and I had my static gamer tag up... Anyhow, this one guy was going on about how he had this special gamer tag pic and it was so rare, yada, yada, yada... Anyhow, I positioned my camera over his gamer tag and switched to using a video feed, so I temporarily had the same gamer tag ;)

Also reminds me of an off topic story, i was introducing my wife, well GF at the time, to IIRC and some guy started messaging her, wanting to know more about her. Well he wound up sending her a pic of himself with his junk hanging out and wanted a pic of her... I quickly took the pic he sent of himself and photoshopped feminine parts over his junk and sent it back to him as a photo of her... He stopped pestering her after that.
 
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