06-21-2013 11:39 AM
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  1. Blu3V3nom07's Avatar
    I'm quote IGN's Ryan McCaffrey

    Ryan McCaffrey @DMC_Ryan
    Again, not defending MS, but theyre not afraid to drag people kicking &screaming into the future. Remember XBL being broadband-only in 2002?
    That's all I got really. I have gripes on Infamous looking angsty, but that's my only favorite Sony exclusive. Everything else is gobs of gravy for me on XONE. :)
    06-18-2013 01:18 PM
  2. Reflexx's Avatar
    I'm quote IGN's Ryan McCaffrey

    That's all I got really. I have gripes on Infamous looking angsty, but that's my only favorite Sony exclusive. Everything else is gobs of gravy for me on XONE. :)
    And kicking and screaming they are.

    But seriously, not everyone is ready for the future. And that's OKAY.

    People need to stop thinking that they have no choice. They do have a choice. If they aren't ready for pure digital content, then they can get a PS4. It's perfectly fine.

    But I wish they would stop trying to ruin it for the rest of us that ARE ready.
    06-18-2013 02:07 PM
  3. DavidinCT's Avatar
    Will all the limits of the X1, I will end up with both but, if PS4 does not put as much DRM on games and the game come out for both systems, I will buy the game for the PS4. Then I know I can go on ebay or other place and buy a used game. When it comes down the real life, I cant blow $60 on every game that comes out, so a game for the PS4 every once and a while a month old for $30 seems good to me. It's just less money in MS's pocket and it's their own fault for forcing DRM on all games when not all devs want it.

    In the real world, after all the bad press and reaction from gamers worldwide on this DRM issue, How many companies do you acutally think will force DRM on their games?

    Personally, I'll end up with both at some point because after all, it is ALL ABOUT THE GAMES...

    People need to stop thinking that they have no choice. They do have a choice. If they aren't ready for pure digital content, then they can get a PS4. It's perfectly fine.

    But I wish they would stop trying to ruin it for the rest of us that ARE ready.
    Just because your ok with it, does not mean about 50% of the global gamers dont have an issue with it. Anyway about it, a lot of people should have an issue with Microsoft telling you when and how you can play your game after spending $500 on a system and $60+ on a game.
    06-18-2013 02:08 PM
  4. martinmc78's Avatar
    Will all the limits of the X1, I will end up with both but, if PS4 does not put as much DRM on games and the game come out for both systems, I will buy the game for the PS4. Then I know I can go on ebay or other place and buy a used game. When it comes down the real life, I cant blow $60 on every game that comes out, so a game for the PS4 every once and a while a month old for $30 seems good to me. It's just less money in MS's pocket and it's their own fault for forcing DRM on all games when not all devs want it.

    In the real world, after all the bad press and reaction from gamers worldwide on this DRM issue, How many companies do you acutally think will force DRM on their games?

    Personally, I'll end up with both at some point because after all, it is ALL ABOUT THE GAMES...
    Sorry man. That post is just all kinds of wrong. Buying your used games for PS4 at half price wont be putting money in MS pocket but it wont be putting money in the developers pockets either and seriously there isn't a developer out there that doesn't want some form of DRM - they all want paying and none of them want ripping off or being pirated - yeah theres a handful that will always find ways to hack and bend the rules to be cheap, petty criminals. But if the Xbox One follows Steam but adds the bonus of the used game format with money back to devs and it works... how many developers aren't going to want to use what MS are pushing. Steam format but with a resale value that puts the money back in the pockets of the people that should have it. Either PS4 will follow suit in some form or they just wont have any devs making games for them.
    06-18-2013 02:22 PM
  5. DavidinCT's Avatar
    Sorry man. That post is just all kinds of wrong. Buying your used games for PS4 at half price wont be putting money in MS pocket but it wont be putting money in the developers pockets either and seriously there isn't a developer out there that doesn't want some form of DRM - they all want paying and none of them want ripping off or being pirated - yeah theres a handful that will always find ways to hack and bend the rules to be cheap, petty criminals. But if the Xbox One follows Steam but adds the bonus of the used game format with money back to devs and it works... how many developers aren't going to want to use what MS are pushing. Steam format but with a resale value that puts the money back in the pockets of the people that should have it. Either PS4 will follow suit in some form or they just wont have any devs making games for them.
    I never said I buy all my games used, I dont. Most I will run to the store to buy and never sell them. I DO time to time buy a used game that I would not be willing to pay $60 for. Out of 10 games I buy, maybe 2-4 are used but, normally less. If Microsoft follows a Steam type model, where a 30ish day old game drops to $30-45, I would not see a need for used games any more.

    Last year between Xbox 360, PC, PS3, Vita and 3DS, I picked 72 games(yep, I had a spreadsheet), for myself. 85-90% were new. How many did you buy ?

    I stand by my case as I said and there is NOTHING wrong with what I said, I can't spend $60 on every game that comes out. If games come out for both systems, no DRM on that game for PS4, I will pick that game up on the PS4, If it's not a top game, I might try to save a little on it, so a month old game for $30-45 used is the best option, UNLESS MS/Sony does something to bring prices down.

    So, Yes, If I buy more games for the PS4, it will be less Money in MS's pocket..
    06-18-2013 02:38 PM
  6. martinmc78's Avatar
    I never said I buy all my games used, I dont. Most I will run to the store to buy and never sell them. I DO time to time buy a used game that I would not be willing to pay $60 for. Out of 10 games I buy, maybe 2-4 are used but, normally less. If Microsoft follows a Steam type model, where a 30ish day old game drops to $30-45, I would not see a need for used games any more.

    Last year between Xbox 360, PC, PS3, Vita and 3DS, I picked 72 games(yep, I had a spreadsheet), for myself. 85-90% were new. How many did you buy ?

    I stand by my case as I said and there is NOTHING wrong with what I said, I can't spend $60 on every game that comes out. If games come out for both systems, no DRM on that game for PS4, I will pick that game up on the PS4, If it's not a top game, I might try to save a little on it, so a month old game for $30-45 used is the best option, UNLESS MS/Sony does something to bring prices down.

    So, Yes, If I buy more games for the PS4, it will be less Money in MS's pocket..
    Apologies. I think what I wrote came out wrong. I wasn't attacking you for buying a used game every now and then, was more a case of where the money goes from that sale and what the DRM model that MS is going for means to developers. I'm not a fan of what Sony is doing with regards to used games. MS have tried to come up with a way where everyone wins. Sony have stuck to the way that things are just to get a bigger cheer and please the masses, that's just not right in my opinion.
    06-18-2013 03:01 PM
  7. DreadVenom's Avatar
    Apologies. I think what I wrote came out wrong. I wasn't attacking you for buying a used game every now and then, was more a case of where the money goes from that sale and what the DRM model that MS is going for means to developers. I'm not a fan of what Sony is doing with regards to used games. MS have tried to come up with a way where everyone wins. Sony have stuck to the way that things are just to get a bigger cheer and please the masses, that's just not right in my opinion.
    Let me start by saying i totally agree with what you have said, Sony blinded everybody with what they wanted to hear even they are doing exactly the same thing as MS, MS has implemented it better in my opinion. I see Sony's approach being similar to how they went about online play with the PS3. They had no infrastructure and left everything up to the devs. MS' mistake is similar to that of win8 and RT, they didn't explain things properly. regarding the check-in issue, i don't understand the problem. Where else can you install a game entirety and never need the disc to play it?? So of you need a method to verify the legitimacy of the users rights to the content. I think MS has taken the correct approach, making things fully digital(mobile gaming but for consoles) but unlike mobile/tablet games, you can lend these to someone.

    So i say let Sony bask in their cheap victory, time will decide who is the true winner. Hopefully people will also see sense too.

    Finally, the one thing i do hope(naive as this maybe) is that sense these consoles now use a pc like architecture and game dev is now parity for all three platforms, shouldn't the prices for these games see parity too??
    06-18-2013 03:28 PM
  8. Reflexx's Avatar
    Just because your ok with it, does not mean about 50% of the global gamers dont have an issue with it. Anyway about it, a lot of people should have an issue with Microsoft telling you when and how you can play your game after spending $500 on a system and $60+ on a game.
    That's fine.

    You have a choice. It's called the PS4.

    There is a lot of good that comes with this pure digital format. The DRM is necessary because it's not locked down to one console. A digital file can be shared and can be sold.

    If you don't like that, that's fine.

    I like that ability.
    06-18-2013 03:45 PM
  9. DavidinCT's Avatar
    Apologies. I think what I wrote came out wrong. I wasn't attacking you for buying a used game every now and then, was more a case of where the money goes from that sale and what the DRM model that MS is going for means to developers. I'm not a fan of what Sony is doing with regards to used games. MS have tried to come up with a way where everyone wins. Sony have stuck to the way that things are just to get a bigger cheer and please the masses, that's just not right in my opinion.
    You have to remember, just becuase MS says something, does not mean it's true. If your a Windows Phone 8 user, you know that, Think of the New adopter program (test beta updates before release) plus a crap load of apps and a bunch of other stuff over the years from release dates to features that never came to be.

    Microsoft also says there will be fourm where people can buy and sell games but, I can't count 100% on what MS says. If you let them do this, what is next ? I still kind of feel I if I buy a system, and pay for the games, it should be up to me on how I play them and when I play them. I should have 100% control of that but, with the DRM and always online rules, I wont have that type of control with the X1. Things happen, Xbox live DOES go down, Internet connections DO fail, Power DOES go out (I have a home generator for that), Crap happens but, MS does not give a backup plan.

    I wont be happy with the system till there is a work around for things like that. To think, the X1 is sold worldwide, 6 months later Xbox live is hacked, code that goes over all their severs, they are down for 2-3 weeks (remember PSN ?), in that case, NO ONE IN THE WORLD CAN USE THEIR X1 besides watching a movie (from a disc).

    I work on computers for a living and deal with network security, I see the things that happen, I just dont think even a billion servers could solve the problem from a good hacker that would like to make a large impact.

    I'm really in it just for the games but, if this stuff happens, everyone who is on this forum saying "I love it and stop complaining" will join the boat on this...
    06-18-2013 03:59 PM
  10. DavidinCT's Avatar
    That's fine.

    You have a choice. It's called the PS4.

    There is a lot of good that comes with this pure digital format. The DRM is necessary because it's not locked down to one console. A digital file can be shared and can be sold.

    If you don't like that, that's fine.

    I like that ability.

    Truth be told, I too love it. I like the feature set. I know there is a lot of good that come with DRM features. I would love to not change discs everytime I want to change games never mind the stack of games on my xbox 360/PS3 for the "current games" I am playing. No question. I like that I can share games with family, if my brother picks up a game, he can share it and I dont have to buy that game, and the other way around. It could give me more access to games. No question there is a lot of good about it.

    My biggest issue is because I know things dont always work like they say, Internet fails, outages happen, things break. This leaves people unable to use their system IF something happens.

    That is why I have a an issue with it. As there is plenty of good things that could happen with a DRM based system, there is an equal side of negitive things that can happen. Over the years I have seen a TON of issues with DRM based systems. I would hate to be at a point where I cant use a $500 game system because of some dam outage or DRM issue.

    Do you honestly think MS is going to have a flawless release with NO DRM issues ? It's never happend and I dont the X1 will be the first.

    I also know for a fact, that I am not the only one.

    Just a backup plan, able to play games for 5 days after a internet outage, or something. It's not that an issue MIGHT happen, it will happen, just when is the question.
    Last edited by DavidinCT; 06-18-2013 at 04:29 PM.
    06-18-2013 04:15 PM
  11. Highdefjunkie's Avatar
    And kicking and screaming they are.

    But seriously, not everyone is ready for the future. And that's OKAY.

    People need to stop thinking that they have no choice. They do have a choice. If they aren't ready for pure digital content, then they can get a PS4. It's perfectly fine.

    But I wish they would stop trying to ruin it for the rest of us that ARE ready.
    If every company thought that way Apple would never released an all touch phone and put an phone OS on a tablet. Or Apple Air not including a disc drive (or blu-ray drive) and MS having a full-on OS that is for mobile tabs and desktop. Or cloud based products. Or having the 360 and PS3 HD before the majority didn't have HDTV's. When is everyone ready? Nobody knows. I love a company who isn't afraid to drag us into a future vision they have. It takes balls, and I appreciate that over PS4 who wants to keep the status quo. I mean their whole platform is we aren't like them? Is that the kind of product you want to support? Name me one thing that PS4 does that is next generation besides upgraded graphics? Console's are on their way out unless they innovate. You'll see...
    06-18-2013 08:07 PM
  12. theeboredone's Avatar
    A bit random, but just because someone buys a game used, doesn't mean they won't buy DLC or MP (assuming the code was used). Maybe they buy the game for 30 bucks, and put the other "30" into DLC? Compared to buying it new for 60, and then tacking on another 30 for DLC.
    06-18-2013 08:15 PM
  13. Highdefjunkie's Avatar
    Truth be told, I too love it. I like the feature set. I know there is a lot of good that come with DRM features. I would love to not change discs everytime I want to change games never mind the stack of games on my xbox 360/PS3 for the "current games" I am playing. No question. I like that I can share games with family, if my brother picks up a game, he can share it and I dont have to buy that game, and the other way around. It could give me more access to games. No question there is a lot of good about it.

    My biggest issue is because I know things dont always work like they say, Internet fails, outages happen, things break. This leaves people unable to use their system IF something happens.

    That is why I have a an issue with it. As there is plenty of good things that could happen with a DRM based system, there is an equal side of negitive things that can happen. Over the years I have seen a TON of issues with DRM based systems. I would hate to be at a point where I cant use a $500 game system because of some dam outage or DRM issue.

    Do you honestly think MS is going to have a flawless release with NO DRM issues ? It's never happend and I dont the X1 will be the first.

    I also know for a fact, that I am not the only one.

    Just a backup plan, able to play games for 5 days after a internet outage, or something. It's not that an issue MIGHT happen, it will happen, just when is the question.
    Right. And MS has taken the precautions by putting it on Azure. By having 300,000 servers pumping out the goods. EVERYTHING is moving towards the cloud. MS knows that OS's installed on a harddrive is going away. They are fully prepared for the future and if there's one company that gets that is MS. Well, throw google in there as well. Will their be hiccups of course! Is technology ever perfect no. But if we have that as a base we'll never ever move forward.
    06-18-2013 08:15 PM
  14. theeboredone's Avatar
    Are search results based on what people are searching on that engine? Otherwise...this is just lame.

    o5dspj5.png
    Blu3V3nom07 likes this.
    06-18-2013 08:27 PM
  15. PhoenixSoul's Avatar
    Are search results based on what people are searching on that engine? Otherwise...this is just lame.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	O5dSpJ5.png 
Views:	10 
Size:	307.3 KB 
ID:	35967
    google-results.png

    bing-results.png
    06-18-2013 08:42 PM
  16. theeboredone's Avatar
    I don't understand search engines then.
    06-18-2013 10:44 PM
  17. Savin Nay Wangtal's Avatar
    The reason that you won't get things like that is:
    1) You're a staunch MS follower. You see their logic, and prize it above all else. We don't. We judged the logic (but mainly the delivery) based on its actual merit.
    2) You're not a gamer. MS insulted gamers over and over and tried to appease the Apple crowd. We don't like getting insulted over and over.
    3) Frankly, they weren't the first to pull something like this. Always-on DRM had been around in many games on PC, as well as a lot of digital distribution services. The difference is those are usually: a.40-60USD games (basically a 40-60bucks discount), or outright freemium b. Online/multiplayer-centric games (so the point is that we wanted to be online). MS disregarded those two very important points, and now they're paying the price.

    PS4 was going to be always online too. You can see it in Sony's attitude. It was going to be the exact same thing as Xbone--that's why the Move light came built in on the controller. Sony didn't have the ball to announce it because they knew there was going to be at least some backlash. MS did (being MS, they were just being dumb and arrogant). And the rest was history.
    06-21-2013 11:16 AM
  18. martinmc78's Avatar
    The reason that you won't get things like that is:
    1) You're a staunch MS follower. You see their logic, and prize it above all else. We don't. We judged the logic (but mainly the delivery) based on its actual merit.
    2) You're not a gamer. MS insulted gamers over and over and tried to appease the Apple crowd. We don't like getting insulted over and over.
    3) Frankly, they weren't the first to pull something like this. Always-on DRM had been around in many games on PC, as well as a lot of digital distribution services. The difference is those are usually: a.40-60USD games (basically a 40-60bucks discount), or outright freemium b. Online/multiplayer-centric games (so the point is that we wanted to be online). MS disregarded those two very important points, and now they're paying the price.

    PS4 was going to be always online too. You can see it in Sony's attitude. It was going to be the exact same thing as Xbone--that's why the Move light came built in on the controller. Sony didn't have the ball to announce it because they knew there was going to be at least some backlash. MS did (being MS, they were just being dumb and arrogant). And the rest was history.
    1) Who's WE? Or are you schizophrenic?
    2) How do you know he's not a gamer? And there's that WE again.
    3) Your point makes no sense. Your referring to DRM that already exists on PC and saying the xbox one was doing the same thing but then they somehow disregarded those two points and are now paying the price. Notice another WE slipped in there too.

    What has the move light on the controller got to do with being always online? Surely the move light is to link it with the eyetoy?
    06-21-2013 11:39 AM
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