I Don't Understand the Backlash Against Xbox One and Praise for PS4

[Huime]

Let me try.
Freebies and pirate is good?

 

[Keith Wallace]

I can handle most of what MS is doing, but am firmly in the camp that hates the 24hr check-in aspect of the DRM.

MS has made a monumental PR error -- they have failed to consistently and repetitively explain to customers a clear vision of the Xbox One experience. This has resulted in people debating features and policies, rather than understanding the new paradigm for gaming being created and how these features and policies are necessary to enable it. Now MS is essentially saying once you have the console you'll understand. Not a very compelling sales pitch.

The check-in is probably at the bottom of my list. I put the need to plug in the Kinect at the top of the list, with the requirement to pay an extra $100 (or so) for the console as a result of its inclusion second. While the check-in can cause problems for some, the quantity of people affected is likely to be small, unless you're deliberately negligent. Internet penetration to rural areas has MOSTLY gotten good enough to where the vast majority (I'd put it at over 90%) of users can get Internet to work once per day.

 

[michfan]

The check-in is probably at the bottom of my list. I put the need to plug in the Kinect at the top of the list, with the requirement to pay an extra $100 (or so) for the console as a result of its inclusion second. While the check-in can cause problems for some, the quantity of people affected is likely to be small, unless you're deliberately negligent. Internet penetration to rural areas has MOSTLY gotten good enough to where the vast majority (I'd put it at over 90%) of users can get Internet to work once per day.

I cleared those hurdles when I paid $150 for Kinect on my 360. We've had a lot of fun with it. I only caught it secretly tracking me once .

 

[vertigoOne]

MS has made a monumental PR error -- they have failed to consistently and repetitively explain to customers a clear vision of the Xbox One experience. This has resulted in people debating features and policies, rather than understanding the new paradigm for gaming being created and how these features and policies are necessary to enable it. Now MS is essentially saying once you have the console you'll understand. Not a very compelling sales pitch.

Maybe MS' intent is not 100% certain even to themselves yet. They have said that they will release more details in the coming months, which to me says that they cannot set anything in stone as of now aside from what we have already seen and heard from them. If you stop to think about it, this digital revolution in the console space is unprecedented. It took steam years to catch on, and valve is still reluctant to release a console dedicated to what has proven to be a successful service.

And you can certainly figure in this negative public perception into what will be the ultimate 'set in stone' terms of these services. But it is not just MS we are waiting on for that info, the publishers and developers have to be on board with it as well or the whole effort, including the weathering of this barrage of negativity, would be futile.

Ultimately, when day one comes, we will know everything we need to know to make an informed decision.

 

[Mystictrust]

I cleared those hurdles when I paid $150 for Kinect on my 360. We've had a lot of fun with it. I only caught it secretly tracking me once .

Did it nod in approval of what it saw or something?

I was a bit taken aback to see the Kinect at a friend's house physically adjust automatically.

 

[DavidinCT]

This thread alone shows we will all use or need different things in our systems. Can we just agree to disagree here ?

Everyone's system location is different, everyone's uses is different, just because you dont like something does that give you the right to give them a hard time about it ?

We should all agree on the DRM, 24 hour checks and a eye watching you all the time is the advantage of what the PS4 offers....

 

[vertigoOne]

This thread alone shows we will all use or need different things in our systems. Can we just agree to disagree here ?

Everyone's system location is different, everyone's uses is different, just because you dont like something does that give you the right to give them a hard time about it ?

We should all agree on the DRM, 24 hour checks and a eye watching you all the time is the advantage of what the PS4 offers....

Or disadvantage, if UNO what I mean.

 

[Bicpug]

A couple of years ago it would have been the ramblings of a conspiracy nut to suggest that kinect2 may end up as a camera in every home spying on you, but given the way governments (especially the US) are lying to us about how much surveillance they now do with little to no oversight i'm not so sure.

 

[coip]

What is not to understand here ? Have you read the complants of people ? DRM is one of those evil bastards that has been created over the years that just make honest users have to feel like a crook to use their own content they paid for the right to use. Look up history on it. I even know a handfull of people who picked up a ton ($100's worth) music from a company with DRM, the company went under, all their music was unplayable with not way to get their music or money back. This has happened to a lot of people, so when DRM comes up, everyone gets upset. Same here, I hate it too as I have issues with it in the past.

I agree with you that the 'just because others are doing it' argument doesn't mean gamers have to like it, and I agree that there are problems with it, as you pointed out. All I was saying is that I find it odd that gamers are surprised by this when they've already been doing it for years on their smartphones. If they want to be mad, they should be mad at Apple. Where was the uproar 6 years ago when the iPhone launched and they were granting 24/7 access to every stupid app they downloaded on their phones, or the fact that they purchased dozens of apps that are tied to that device? If anything, Xbox One's policy is much more lax (static check-ins, ability to share, lend, or sell games, ability to access your games on other devices, etc.). Sure, I think that smartphones users accepted all the shenanigans, because they had no basis of comparison. On the other hand, console gamers remember "good old days" -- it is much easier to get upset when something gets taken away from you.

Nevertheless, the part that vexes me is all of it is directed at Microsoft while Sony is being praised for maintaining the status quo. Sony isn't maintaining the status quo. If they were doing so, they would say explicitly, "No DRM on PS4!", and that would be praiseworthy. Instead, what they're doing is just deflecting blame: "Oh, it's not our fault; we're just leaving it up to the developers, so blame them". They're still allowing it to happen, and they're pretending that they aren't and misleading the masses. That's what irks me. Time will tell, but anyone who is choosing the PS4 over the Xbox One for these reasons is likely to be very disappointed: PS4 games will not be DRM-free either.

I commiserate with people who don't have regular Internet access (rural folk, people in less wired nations, military members, etc.) and I hope that Microsoft comes up with a solution to that dilemma, but I don't understand the majority of "hardcore gamers" who are spouting off on the Internet how draconian it all is when, in reality, they've already been doing it for years.

 

[coip]

Also, the check in isn't so much the problem; its the penalty for now doing it. Yes, put a hold on my account if I sign on through a hacked system. But don't do it just because I didn't let you know where I was for a day or two.

There's no app that'll brick your phone if you don't show it your location...

One of us is mis-interpreting the check-in policy. You seem to be interpreting to mean that if you don't check-in every 24 hours your Xbox is going to explode. I interpret it to mean that you can check-in, then you can play the game for up to 24 hours. But, if you want to take a 3-week break from that game, that's no problem (people go on vacation, after all). Then you just re-log in after 3-weeks, check-in, and pick up where you left off.

 

[Bicpug]

coip: Human nature; it's one thing to do it voluntarily but being told to submit to unnecessary DRM it triggers an automatic rebel response.

 

[Only Mama Knows]

I don't get the uproar over Xbox One and the hardcore gamer's preference for Sony's strategy of physical disc sharing. On Xbox One, with everything digital, you can lend games to ten friends, digitally and remotely, and you can access your entire game library at a friend's house just by logging in. That is way more convenient.

Online check-ins
I understand this sounds creepy, but everyone already does this with their cell phones. They download a bunch of apps from dozens of different companies and give authorization for those companies to track their location data 24/7. And now they are freaking out about having to 'check-in' for a second on Xbox. It doesn't make sense to me, but it wouldn't surprise me if Microsoft softened it a little bit, but I get why they are doing it: it's good for the developers and if you do what's good for developers, the exclusive games will come.

I just find it amusing that people largely don't fuss about the smartphone stuff and are suddenly all upset about this. It suggests to me they don't really understand what they are already doing, which is scary, and how the Xbox One is better about it. Cell phone users give apps 24/7 access to their location--everywhere they go, everything they do. Xbox One is nowhere near as Orwellian: it's requiring you to check in (which most 360 users already do) from a static location, periodically. On top of that, they're all freaking out about the used/rental games, but these same people have tons of games and apps on their smart phones that are tied to those smart phones: they can't rent them, they can't sell them, they can't lend them. But, with the Xbox One, you can still sell them and you can lend them to up to 10 people.

Restrictions on lending and selling:
Again, people already put up with this whether they are playing games on their PC (mandatory installs, no sharing or re-selling) or on their smartphones and tablets (they buy games, those games are tied to the device, and they cannot sell them or lend them at all). But with the Xbox One strategy, you can lend them: digitally or you can re-sell the disc. Sure, there will be some restrictions, but there has to be or the industry will implode.

DRM in general:
This is the way it's going because piracy was destroying game developers' incentives to make games. Microsoft looks like the bad guy here, but Sony has already said that they are leaving DRM decisions up to the third-party developers on PS4, which means games on PS4 will likely have the same restrictions anyway, except instead of them being standardized, they'll be all over the place which will create confusion

Benefits of digital:
There are also a lot of potential benefits do going completely digital that may leave PS4 behind. Xbox One is embracing the ability to do cloud computing to aid the console, which means that in a few years down the road, while the PS4 is trapped with its current hardware specs, the Xbox One will be getting more powerful.

Kinect vs. Eye:
Including the Kinect explains the higher price tag, but it's the right decision. If you bundle the Kinect, developers have an incentive to develop for it because everyone with an Xbox One has one. Sony, by not bundling the Eye is essentially killing it by limiting it to a side peripheral that only a small minority of PS4 users will have, giving little incentive for developers to innovate with it. Hardcore gamers may not care about voice and movement integration, but I'd rather see how developers can innovate with it

1. Home consoles are NOT the same as cell phones. Apples and oranges. What if my internet goes down at home, or I don't need it? I'd like to still be able to use my console.
2. I don't play PC games, so it doesn't currently affect me. I'd like to be able to whatever I want with the physical media I have purchased, whether that's lending to someone else or selling it to a 2nd hand retailer.
3. Yea, DRM is coming for everyone so no way to get around this. However, I view mandatory DRM for all games on a console different than leaving it up to the publisher, but not a big difference.
4. We'll see. Benefits of digital are really just promises right now. Whatever the new SimCity is promised all of the benefits of cloud computing and that seems to have turned into a complete disaster.
5. Couldn't care less about the eye or Kinect. I think forcing it on consumers or publishers is a mistake.

These are just my reasons for purchasing a PS4 to start. I'm sure the Xbox One will be a great system, and when it eventually drops in price I may pick one up. For now, I just don't see the added benefit to justify the extra 100

 

[_X_]

What I don't get is this thread supporting MS for their actions. I also don't get why this site is so MS fanatical. One thing is to like MS products but it's another level to pretend MS can do no wrong.

The step MS is proposing is a big deal, but even a bigger deal when you see the direction their heading to. If you recall they proposed denying all used games after an outcry they revered that decision but still implemented some DRM. What's to stop them from implementing this in the future via a software update?


Going to your phone analogy. Yes there are many parallels. If an app requires internet access for it to work(but is not a network app) It gets uninstalled. I also do not willingly give my information out to any app, it must justify the need else it will not be installed. However there is one major difference in your analogy not all apps have DRM. I use Android and I can backup my apps and have them work on any future Android device. Also the average App cost a few dollars while these console game cost $60.

I own all three consoles and I will say this if MS does not change their direction I will only support the WII and PS.

=X=

 

[DavidinCT]

I agree with you that the 'just because others are doing it' argument doesn't mean gamers have to like it, and I agree that there are problems with it, as you pointed out. All I was saying is that I find it odd that gamers are surprised by this when they've already been doing it for years on their smartphones. If they want to be mad, they should be mad at Apple. Where was the uproar 6 years ago when the iPhone launched and they were granting 24/7 access to every stupid app they downloaded on their phones, or the fact that they purchased dozens of apps that are tied to that device? If anything, Xbox One's policy is much more lax (static check-ins, ability to share, lend, or sell games, ability to access your games on other devices, etc.). Sure, I think that smartphones users accepted all the shenanigans, because they had no basis of comparison. On the other hand, console gamers remember "good old days" -- it is much easier to get upset when something gets taken away from you.

The difference here is, Apple started as a digital download, so did Windows Phone, and other types of devices, Android, etc. Digital downloads are the way they are and I, with most people accept that. This is totally different from the issue at hand.

The issue is with PHYSICAL MEDIA. When you buy a disc, you should have a right to do what you want with the disc. Sell, give away, or what ever you want. The courts decided how people have the right to sell their music CD and it would almost apply here.

Microsoft is trying to turn everything to digital in a market that has always been based on Physical media, cart, CD or DVD based. Sony saw the reaction from people, and played off it, this is why they look like the golden child here..

This is the problem and till it's addressed, it's a major problem with me, as others...this is the big deal with used games.

coip: Human nature; it's one thing to do it voluntarily but being told to submit to unnecessary DRM it triggers an automatic rebel response.

Wrong, read above.

 

[In Limbo]

So who with an Xbox 360 is going to "rebel" and switch with Halo 5 in the works? Sure some, but I have a feeling most will calm down and just buy the Xbox One.

 

[sinime]

coip: Human nature; it's one thing to do it voluntarily but being told to submit to unnecessary DRM it triggers an automatic rebel response.

I have to agree with that, although I have no issues with what MS is doing (did at first, then I calmed down and realized it won't really effect me.)

And the kicker is all the Sony fanboys that "know", for a fact, that there will be no DRM on the third party PS4 titles.

Only thing that bugs me, is that at some point down the road, probably close to release of whatever XBox comes next, I can't just sell the games with the system, I'll be forced to go to a participating retailer and take it up the bobo for the games.

 

[vertigoOne]

Only thing that bugs me, is that at some point down the road, probably close to release of whatever XBox comes next, I can't just sell the games with the system, I'll be forced to go to a participating retailer and take it up the bobo for the games.

I read in one of the articles that came out this week that MS is already pre-planning so that the digital content of this next generation will follow you into the generation that follows it.

 

[allos autos]

You might find this article interesting: Why Praise For The PS4 And Criticism Of Xbox One Are Vastly Overdone - Forbes

 

[mister2d]

1. Home consoles are NOT the same as cell phones. Apples and oranges. What if my internet goes down at home, or I don't need it? I'd like to still be able to use my console.
2. I don't play PC games, so it doesn't currently affect me. I'd like to be able to whatever I want with the physical media I have purchased, whether that's lending to someone else or selling it to a 2nd hand retailer.
3. Yea, DRM is coming for everyone so no way to get around this. However, I view mandatory DRM for all games on a console different than leaving it up to the publisher, but not a big difference.
4. We'll see. Benefits of digital are really just promises right now. Whatever the new SimCity is promised all of the benefits of cloud computing and that seems to have turned into a complete disaster.
5. Couldn't care less about the eye or Kinect. I think forcing it on consumers or publishers is a mistake.

These are just my reasons for purchasing a PS4 to start. I'm sure the Xbox One will be a great system, and when it eventually drops in price I may pick one up. For now, I just don't see the added benefit to justify the extra 100

1. No, they are NOT the same as cell phones, but the underlying architecture and market IS converging to be more of the same (with apps, downloads, system updates, etc). So, you can make a point that Microsoft is FORWARD thinking here as it pertains to gaming consoles.

2. I believe that's why there is another option for you here. Microsoft isn't forcing you to buy the X1.

3. I'm quite sure the publishers don't have a problem with it. It helps their bottom line too when you consider the used games market as it is today.

4. Digital delivery isn't just promises right now. See point number 1. It's a proven industry that brings money to developers and providers alike. Heck anyone who has a phone these days can thank Apple for digital software delivery. It just works--unless some just doesn't want to pay for anything and pirate.

5. Again, no one's forcing anything here. Consider that Microsoft's software/hardware vision is more directed to the future and not what you see today. The Kinect is integral to what they are envisioning 5-10 years down the line by bundling it with the X1, whereas Sony is making it optional. Meaning optionally develop for it on the PS4. Look, you may not like it, but it's all based on Microsoft's vision to be as much future proof as possible until the next iteration.

 

[MerlotC]

IMO the real problem is not the policies or limitations as, for myself and I think for most connected people, the advantages outweigh the limitations. The uproar though is Microsofts fault for not explaining long ago that the future Xbox would be a digital only system and start touting those benefits like family share etc. so people had a chance to digest it all long before reveal and E3 and then blow them away with great games at E3 and announce more features etc. I think this was their general strategy but it was poorly timed, poorly implemented and poorly communicated (and is still not being communicated).

The more people learn and compare the old (ps4) way of doing things to the new a lot will change their view but it could have been so much easier if MS had any marketing sense. I still expect them to announce other benefits, possibly have an offline "solution" or maybe even hdmi 360 integration before launch but why hold back if these are in the works? I love the Xbox One and most MS products but their PR dept. sucks.