01-13-2014 07:40 PM
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  1. coip's Avatar
    I think I'm with the OP on this one: I'm done with physical media. I have no desire to pop any discs (games or movies) into a tray. I'll stream and digitally download everything. The OP is right that bundling the Kinect is crucial, but the Blu-ray player is not. As another mentioned, why not offer a slimmer console that is digital only? Even if it only shaved off $50 from the total (I see others are claiming it would be more like $30-40, but they would also save some money on royalties to Sony and reduces parts in a slimmer console, no? so maybe they could cut the price by $50, but even if it was $40 cheaper, I'd still take it), that would help halve the gap between the PS4 and make it more enticing for some. Even more so, it will promote Microsoft's original vision for Xbox One: digital only games. Seems like a no-brainer to me. Every Xbox One with a Blu-Ray drive in is money in Sony's coffers.
    06-28-2013 02:49 AM
  2. martinmc78's Avatar
    I think I'm with the OP on this one: I'm done with physical media. I have no desire to pop any discs (games or movies) into a tray. I'll stream and digitally download everything. The OP is right that bundling the Kinect is crucial, but the Blu-ray player is not. As another mentioned, why not offer a slimmer console that is digital only? Even if it only shaved off $50 from the total (I see others are claiming it would be more like $30-40, but they would also save some money on royalties to Sony and reduces parts in a slimmer console, no? so maybe they could cut the price by $50, but even if it was $40 cheaper, I'd still take it), that would help halve the gap between the PS4 and make it more enticing for some. Even more so, it will promote Microsoft's original vision for Xbox One: digital only games. Seems like a no-brainer to me. Every Xbox One with a Blu-Ray drive in is money in Sony's coffers.
    How did you work that out? Sony don't have any patents or rights to blu ray players so no money goes to them. Personally im glad its included. It means I can get rid of my blu ray player for 50 and put it towards the price of the Xbox One. Its supposed to be a complete entertainment centre. If you take away the physical drive that means people with dvd and blu ray collections would then have to go out and buy a separate player or keep their existing player and have an extra box under the tv.
    06-28-2013 03:10 AM
  3. EchoRedux's Avatar
    I can't imagine the marginal cost for MS between a regular DVD drive and blu ray being more than $15. Remember, Microsoft had the playback technology developed long ago and to my knowledge, neither the DVD drive in the 360 nor the blu ray player is rewritable.

    Since they are marketing this device as a media player, blu ray is a must. I think including the blu ray player actually reduce costs due to economies of scale since it opens the product up to a larger market and more people will buy it.
    06-28-2013 12:17 PM
  4. DavidinCT's Avatar
    How did you work that out? Sony don't have any patents or rights to blu ray players so no money goes to them.
    Just wondering where you got your info here? Sony created the blu-ray format(Edit: a major part in creating the format). I clearly remember the Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD format war (I was a HD-DVD supporter myself). I would almost bet that Microsoft is paying a royalty to Sony for this format or at least an paid right to use the format with the system (possable millions of dollars). This is why the PS3 did really good with blu-ray on release, even at the crazy $699.99 price range when it was first released (it was still the cheapest blu-ray player for a long time).

    To people who dont want a drive in their system, dont use it. Studies have shown that a large amount of people STILL prefer phsyical media over digital. It will go that way someday but, as you saw the outrage on the DRM/converting everything to digial, it's not coming any time soon.

    Also it's been claimed the blu-ray format will support 4K video and it would only need a software/firmware update for the drive to support it (and HDMI 1.4 that the X1 and PS4 have). Moving forward, that is a big deal for anyone thinking about going that way when content is released.

    There is still the fact that if you buy a AAA game, based on blu-ray, it's going to be 20-45gb+, Think about how long you will have to wait to download that on your DSL/cable line. This is one factor that people seem to forget with digital downloads. You feel like a new game, you go on the marketplace to buy a digital version for download, you have to wait 4-6 hours for it to fully download. Physical disc are not going anywhere any time soon....trust me.
    Last edited by DavidinCT; 06-28-2013 at 03:00 PM.
    06-28-2013 01:23 PM
  5. Coreldan's Avatar
    The current gen PC games arnt 20-45gb, usually closer to 15gb than 20gb and they still look the same/better and are as big as most likely majority of next-gen games on consoles will be for many years, thus I dont expect the next gen games to cross the 20gb mark for a while. Naturally now that the disc format supports it, they might just be more likely to do it. Especially multiplatform games on consoles likely also limit the outcome more or less on PC, cos they dont want to make the game drastically different.
    06-28-2013 01:35 PM
  6. jhguth's Avatar
    Sony created the blu-ray format, Sony DOES have a patent on blu-ray
    no they didn't, and no they don't
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Association
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc
    Last edited by jhguth; 06-28-2013 at 02:42 PM. Reason: its shared technology developed by 2-primary and many other companies
    06-28-2013 02:40 PM
  7. DavidinCT's Avatar
    Corrected, but, they were the major players and investers in Blu-ray format. I stand corrected but, even if so, Microsoft's name is not on the list and they would be paying something to the Blu-ray Disc Association.

    Anyway around it, someone got or is getting paid for Microsoft to be able to use the Blu-ray format and or the licencing for the software to play back blu-ray media. In turn, you are paying for it when you buy the system because part of that cost pays for the software/hardware rights

    The current gen PC games arnt 20-45gb, usually closer to 15gb than 20gb and they still look the same/better and are as big as most likely majority of next-gen games on consoles will be for many years, thus I dont expect the next gen games to cross the 20gb mark for a while. Naturally now that the disc format supports it, they might just be more likely to do it. Especially multiplatform games on consoles likely also limit the outcome more or less on PC, cos they dont want to make the game drastically different.
    "arnt" ? Ok I will leave this one alone....

    Not current systems (yep most current PC games are from 10-20gb), next gen, We are talking a year down the line when devs start really showing off the system. Also when games start going to 4K res. with 10.1 digital audio.

    Still the fact of the matter that I was trying to say was, even downloading a 15-20gb game could take hours for most people, the ONLY major flaw with digital downloads that a lot of people seem to forget here.
    06-28-2013 02:53 PM
  8. EchoRedux's Avatar
    10.1 digital audio? Hell why not 10.2? How is that even configured in a living room for instance? 2 front, center, 3 back, 4 sides? I think I need a house with bigger rooms.
    06-28-2013 04:34 PM
  9. DavidinCT's Avatar
    10.1 digital audio? Hell why not 10.2? How is that even configured in a living room for instance? 2 front, center, 3 back, 4 sides? I think I need a house with bigger rooms.
    I guess you really do not watch audio/video gear, do you ? 10.1 is the standard in higher end home theater setups... and personally I would love Video games with 10.1 audio support... You can do a 10.2 if you really wanted to, split the subwoofer out to 2 jacks... the .1 is the subwoofer...
    ZX9 likes this.
    06-28-2013 04:48 PM
  10. ZX9's Avatar
    10.1 digital audio? Hell why not 10.2? How is that even configured in a living room for instance? 2 front, center, 3 back, 4 sides? I think I need a house with bigger rooms.
    10.1 is already way ahead of regular home audio systems. And when you have that many speakers, it becomes less about sides/front/back than simply surrounding the room in what way works for your room. And honestly, if you have that many speakers, and two subs, you're going to need a good amp and your Xbox will just plug into that. Bass doesn't really need to be directional, so splitting it is kind of pointless.
    06-28-2013 04:49 PM
  11. EchoRedux's Avatar
    10.1 is already way ahead of regular home audio systems. And when you have that many speakers, it becomes less about sides/front/back than simply surrounding the room in what way works for your room. And honestly, if you have that many speakers, and two subs, you're going to need a good amp and your Xbox will just plug into that. Bass doesn't really need to be directional, so splitting it is kind of pointless.
    I've never heard of 10.1 while I have heard of 10.2. While people 20 years from now might point and laugh at my comment, I don't see any practicality having a set up with more than 8 speakers and two subs in a home setting, and that would take a pretty large room.

    If they say the human eye can't see more than x pixels per square inch, there's gotta be some measurement where the human ear can't distinguish better surround sound once you hit enough speakers in the room :)
    06-28-2013 05:03 PM
  12. jhguth's Avatar
    Corrected, but, they were the major players and investers in Blu-ray format. I stand corrected but, even if so, Microsoft's name is not on the list and they would be paying something to the Blu-ray Disc Association.
    Also, as a related FYI, Microsoft did not invent HD-DVD. They licensed and used it. (Toshiba and NEC started the standard)
    06-28-2013 05:48 PM
  13. coip's Avatar
    Interesting. I remember the Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD battle as well and for some reason assumed Sony had patents on the format.

    Anyway, I am not talking about removing the option of a Blu-Ray Xbox One. I'm saying, sell a Blu-Ray version and a slimmer console without Blu-Ray (or any disc drive). It's not like bundling the Kinect (which is a must, otherwise it fragments the market) it would just be a different model that doesn't use physical media, which is what they are pushing for anyway. It sounds though that the price difference would be miniscule, so maybe it was a bad idea in that sense (although, that surprises me if that is truly the case), but even if they could make it slimmer without it (although, I'm guessing this difference would be miniscule as well--in that case, fine, fine, give me the Xbox One with the disc drive I'll never open).
    06-28-2013 11:38 PM
  14. Mystictrust's Avatar
    fine, fine, give me the Xbox One with the disc drive I'll never open
    You won't be alone, nobody will be opening the disc drive. It's a slot loading drive ;)
    DavidinCT likes this.
    06-29-2013 01:45 AM
  15. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Interesting. I remember the Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD battle as well and for some reason assumed Sony had patents on the format.

    Anyway, I am not talking about removing the option of a Blu-Ray Xbox One. I'm saying, sell a Blu-Ray version and a slimmer console without Blu-Ray (or any disc drive). It's not like bundling the Kinect (which is a must, otherwise it fragments the market) it would just be a different model that doesn't use physical media, which is what they are pushing for anyway. It sounds though that the price difference would be miniscule, so maybe it was a bad idea in that sense (although, that surprises me if that is truly the case), but even if they could make it slimmer without it (although, I'm guessing this difference would be miniscule as well--in that case, fine, fine, give me the Xbox One with the disc drive I'll never open).
    What you're missing here is the point that the addition of the Blu-Ray drive is a negligible cost. You'd be talking MAYBE $20, but it could be that the sheer bulk of the purchases has it as low as $5. If you want that level of hardware customization, then you should de a part of the PC Master Race or something.

    I mean, what are the limits on what's optional? If you plan to use a 2TB external HDD for storage, can we also get an edition without the 500GB HDD (which sells for much more than a basic Blu-Ray drive)?
    06-29-2013 11:29 AM
  16. The Hustleman's Avatar
    The more I think about and read about the Xbox One, I feel like the Bluray drive should have been optional. MS is going all out on digital, so why require people to have Bluray? For gaming purposes, it appears discs are going to be no different than download cards and they don't replace the need for internet connectivity. I don't buy physical media movies anymore. The drive is taking up valuable space and serving no purpose to me. People complain about Kinect -- at least it will be functional. The HDDVD add-on for 360 was a good solution for people that wanted a high def movie option. Wish they would have done something like this with One. MS might have hit the $399 mark without Bluray, allowing for some loss knowing all business on the console would be digital and therefore more profitable. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see a future hardware revision without any optical drive.
    They had to.

    Microsoft already knew they screwed up in the seventh generation by not having a high capacity disc drive.

    Ps3 did and it showed at the end of the generation.

    Ms isn't going to make the same mistake in the eight gen.

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
    06-29-2013 02:48 PM
  17. WasteSomeTime's Avatar
    I think the bluray option is unnecessary and just jacks the price up. I thought this was going to be the no disk generation.
    06-29-2013 02:52 PM
  18. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    I think the bluray option is unnecessary and just jacks the price up. I thought this was going to be the no disk generation.
    How can you think that it jacks up the price? The drives are cheap for consumers. Purchases by a business like Microsoft (especially in such massive quantities) aren't going to be the reason for the cost. They have one on Newegg for $50. Microsoft probably gets them for $10 or less. They aren't the driving force in the console's costs whatsoever. They've got plenty of parts (like the CPU, GPU, and HDD--oh, and that Kinect) that have a MUCH greater effect on the price.

    Drives are cheap, when compared to CPUs, GPUs, HDDs, and motherboards. Shoot, the controller probably costs more than the disc drive. If they took it out, you'd MAYBE see the console go to $475.
    Mystictrust likes this.
    06-29-2013 03:02 PM
  19. WasteSomeTime's Avatar
    HDD's aren't that expensive either but there still is a 500 Gb non - removable. Not like the entire HDD is for your use. The OS its running on will also take up space. I would rather have another HDD than a blu ray drive.
    06-29-2013 06:44 PM
  20. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Get a PC if you want hardware options, plain and simple. Other than HDD sizes, which consoles have actually come out with actual hardware configurations...EVER? You're asking for a console to be a PC, and that's just not its role.
    06-29-2013 07:54 PM
  21. jhguth's Avatar
    Another obstacle to a digital-only console is the idiots who freaked out about (very reasonable) DRM, those loud fan boys would never be okay with it. This console was going to be the device and bring us to a next generation digital only device and bridge the gap, but ***** fan boys ruined it.
    06-30-2013 10:44 AM
  22. TonyDedrick's Avatar
    Another obstacle to a digital-only console is the idiots who freaked out about (very reasonable) DRM, those loud fan boys would never be okay with it. This console was going to be the device and bring us to a next generation digital only device and bridge the gap, but ***** fan boys ruined it.
    Personally, I think MS ruined it by not communicating this entire scenario very well. Its akin to Netflix's attempt in separating its streaming and physical disc service, but not communicating this or presenting it in a palpable way that consumers could swallow. .
    06-30-2013 11:02 AM
  23. The Hustleman's Avatar
    Another obstacle to a digital-only console is the idiots who freaked out about (very reasonable) DRM, those loud fan boys would never be okay with it. This console was going to be the device and bring us to a next generation digital only device and bridge the gap, but ***** fan boys ruined it.
    Why is digital only (actually Blu Ray IS digital) ruined? The system is digital only.

    If you meant download only, that isn't a good thing.

    It should be left to the customer if they prefer to download or have something tangible.

    You download you don't get the case and manual, pay the same, can't resell if you don't like it, and if the system breaks and when they stop supporting it, it's a wrap.

    While I do understand the convenience of download and go, especially on a title that sells out quickly, the cons outweigh the pros.


    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
    06-30-2013 11:19 AM
  24. SnailUK's Avatar
    You download you don't get the case and manual, pay the same, can't resell if you don't like it, and if the system breaks and when they stop supporting it, it's a wrap.

    While I do understand the convenience of download and go, especially on a title that sells out quickly, the cons outweigh the pros.
    Do the cons outweigh the pro's though?

    With my young kids, my cases and manuals are generally broken and drawn on. The disks are covered in fingerprints and scratches. Within about 10 minutes of my kids finding a disk, there is no resale anyway! With xboxs scratching disks, the moment you scratch a disk, you have to buy a new, where digital download just allows you to buy it again.

    Personally physical games/disks/movies are archaic, and i can't wait to be done with them.
    07-01-2013 04:58 AM
  25. TonyDedrick's Avatar
    Do the cons outweigh the pro's though?

    With my young kids, my cases and manuals are generally broken and drawn on. The disks are covered in fingerprints and scratches. Within about 10 minutes of my kids finding a disk, there is no resale anyway! With xboxs scratching disks, the moment you scratch a disk, you have to buy a new, where digital download just allows you to buy it again.

    Personally physical games/disks/movies are archaic, and i can't wait to be done with them.
    And that is your valid experience. Where as Joe down the street, who doesn't have children to worry about, may be a head case in taking care of his disk and don't have those worries.

    While I like how its done now (still have physical disc, along with an on demand service), I wouldn't have been opposed to MS or any company moving toward a majority digital setup. I have quite a few Arcade and full retail downloads on my Xbox now. I also had a good number of VC downloads on the Wii and some on the Wii U. It is convenient.....if you have the internet setup and space to do it.
    07-01-2013 07:06 AM
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