07-01-2013 04:28 PM
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  1. EchoRedux's Avatar
    It's not a matter of if they deserve used game profits. It's a matter of if they can survive without them.
    Almost every industry is like that. Can the auto industry survive used cars? We've seen Suzuki's US operations declare bankruptcy and pull out of the US. Eagle, Pontiac, Saturn, Oldsmobile, American Motors etc etc ALL GONE!!! Designers in the garment and clothing go bye bye too.

    If the developers in the gaming market cannot meet the demands of the consumer, then they are to go out of business. If a consumer really wants to save 5 dollars between buying new and used, so be it. I think the market is oversaturated right now and innovation is at it's lowest, but there will always be devs producing new games.

    It might be easier to look at this on an individual basis. Say a kid only has 200 dollars a year to spend on games. If he only bought new games, assuming he sold them back at 20 bucks, he could only afford 5 games per year. If the kid buys games used at say 40 bucks and sells them back at 15, he can probably play 8 different games.

    If the dev's and publishers want people buying new, offer something like buy 3 games new get the fourth free or something like that. Encourage people to buy new.
    07-01-2013 02:18 PM
  2. EchoRedux's Avatar
    Also the point I forgot to clarify in the scenario was that dev's are really only missing out on their cut of 5 games, not 8, because the kid on a budget could not afford to buy 8 games new even after selling them all back for 20 bucks.
    07-01-2013 02:20 PM
  3. DavidinCT's Avatar
    The car talk is a joke... Why does anyone think used video games compare to used car sales ? A game does not need new tires ever year or 2, nor breaks or oil changes, etc.. Sure, they can make money off of extra parts but, it's like a DLC for games, some will need/want, others wont.

    So, 1/2 the people hate the thought of used games because the DRM on X1 was changed ? So what would you do make it better ?

    Here's what I would do but, I know it would never happen and you can chose from one of these options.

    1. Digtal downloads for all new retail games $49.99 (dropping $2-$5 every 30-60 days), and $59.99 in the store for a retail disc (or $54.99 used at game stop)

    2. Retail/Digital game downloads $49.99 and $9.99 for online use, the online pass would be tied to your account, let a friend use a game he/she would have to pay for the pass, same with selling the game.

    3. The current system, $59.99 online or digital.

    So, the devs want more money and want to limit used games sales ? Number 1 and 2 promote that. You want to get rid of used game sales ? LOWER the price of games. Give people an option. The reason why used games are so big, it's the price. If you do a digital download, you can't sell it, so at a lower price point up front you lose the right to share or sell your game, promoting more sales at a better value.

    The only thing that Microsoft did by removing the DRM features from the X1 is go back in time. No one in their right mind would prefer a retail game on a digital download for the same price (No sharing, no playing at your friends house, and you have to wait hours for it to download to play), if they added sharing features (like old DRM) to digital downloads, it would have an advantage here.

    The only thing that online and retail discs at the same $59.99 price is promote the advanage of buying the retail box. Sure buying digital has some advanages but, the negitives outweigh them for most people.
    The Hustleman likes this.
    07-01-2013 02:48 PM
  4. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    If the developers in the gaming market cannot meet the demands of the consumer, then they are to go out of business. If a consumer really wants to save 5 dollars between buying new and used, so be it.
    In that same vein, if a developer/publisher wants to find a way to lessen the amount of money lost through used game sales (be it a transition to digital only or an EA-style Online Pass), so be it. They have every right to the highest profit, same as consumers have the right to look for the best deal. If a consumer cannot afford to purchase as many games in that market, then they are not to purchase as many games just the same. Each side is free to act and react based on the situation.
    07-01-2013 02:59 PM
  5. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    1. Digtal downloads for all new retail games $49.99 (dropping $2-$5 every 30-60 days), and $59.99 in the store for a retail disc (or $54.99 used at game stop)
    I don't know that publishers can FORCE GameStop to sell at $60. If they dropped digital downloads to $50, GameStop might just do the same with physical copies, sacrificing the per-game profit to keep quantities high. That, or they might do it $60 new and $45 used, to make sure that the used market continues to undercut the new digital market, if nothing else.

    I've made suggestions on alternatives on multiple threads. I don't care to re-hash that for the 5th time.
    07-01-2013 03:02 PM
  6. DavidinCT's Avatar
    I don't know that publishers can FORCE GameStop to sell at $60. If they dropped digital downloads to $50, GameStop might just do the same with physical copies, sacrificing the per-game profit to keep quantities high. That, or they might do it $60 new and $45 used, to make sure that the used market continues to undercut the new digital market, if nothing else.

    I've made suggestions on alternatives on multiple threads. I don't care to re-hash that for the 5th time.
    Retail games do not have a very high margin. If they drop the retail pricing down to $49.99 they will lose money. All I know, keeping digtial and physical games the same price, it just promotes the current system (used games, sharing, etc), lower the prices for digtal, Microsoft's dream could come sooner than later... If the game is the same price, I would rather have the pretty case sitting on my shelf and not have to wait hours to download.

    Anyway about it, if they want used games to go away (to keep the devs happy) they need to drop the price in some way or form. Even if Microsot gave every xbox live sub $5-10 off a single game digtital download per month (of the gamers choice), it would promote digital downloads more and might even be a great option here for everyone (gamers and devs)...
    07-01-2013 03:15 PM
  7. EchoRedux's Avatar
    The car talk is a joke... Why does anyone think used video games compare to used car sales ? A game does not need new tires ever year or 2, nor breaks or oil changes, etc..
    A new car is subject to that too, as with a used car.

    Anyways, let me take your logic and let's see if you take issues with it. From what I can tell, your point is:

    Used cars have expensive maintenance and repairs, therefore it is not analogous to used games with respect to developers getting a cut.

    I say your point is not logically sound as having expensive maintenance and repairs does not give a reason to special treatment with respect to developers getting a cut for used games.
    07-01-2013 03:25 PM
  8. curseoftheninja's Avatar
    Anyway about it, if they want used games to go away (to keep the devs happy) they need to drop the price in some way or form. Even if Microsot gave every xbox live sub $5-10 off a single game digtital download per month (of the gamers choice), it would promote digital downloads more and might even be a great option here for everyone (gamers and devs)...
    I completely agree with you. The problem is Gamestop might stop stocking Microsoft games and fully support PS4 and WiiU. Microsoft needs a physical retail store presence. Many people like physical media, and it is a type of free advertising.
    07-01-2013 03:32 PM
  9. EchoRedux's Avatar
    I must be the only person who has never bought a game at gamestop. I go to Best buy/Frys. I get them new maybe a week after a game comes out for 50 bucks, including Black Ops II.
    07-01-2013 03:38 PM
  10. The Hustleman's Avatar
    I must be the only person who has never bought a game at gamestop. I go to Best buy/Frys. I get them new maybe a week after a game comes out for 50 bucks, including Black Ops II.
    Toys r us is anther great option. They had injustice for 35 bucks a couple weeks after release

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
    07-01-2013 03:42 PM
  11. TonyDedrick's Avatar
    I have no problem shopping at GS when my inlaws get me giftcards to GameStop for my birthdays and xmas.

    Most of the time, I shop on Amazon. And have no qualms doing so. There aren't many games that, based on looks alone, I care to blow $50, $60 on. Those games are rare, for me personally
    07-01-2013 03:53 PM
  12. DavidinCT's Avatar
    I completely agree with you. The problem is Gamestop might stop stocking Microsoft games and fully support PS4 and WiiU. Microsoft needs a physical retail store presence. Many people like physical media, and it is a type of free advertising.
    Nah, game stop is in business to do one thing, Make money. If the Xbox one sells well, they will carry their games if they will make money off it. On that logic, Sony gives away retail games (better value line up than Microsoft has) on PSN over the last months for free, games that were $50-60 at game stop, so they will stop selling them because of that ?

    A new car is subject to that too, as with a used car.

    Anyways, let me take your logic and let's see if you take issues with it. From what I can tell, your point is:

    Used cars have expensive maintenance and repairs, therefore it is not analogous to used games with respect to developers getting a cut.

    I say your point is not logically sound as having expensive maintenance and repairs does not give a reason to special treatment with respect to developers getting a cut for used games.
    Exactly. I guess your point does not make sense.

    Video games are treated as Media, like Music CDs or Blu-ray discs or even Books. People have a right to do what they want with their media after they buy it. It's always been like this. Did Nintendo cry about it when the 8bit nes used games where sold at the local store down the street or sold to your friend? Did the PS1 games run into the same problem, did Sony cry about it ? How about that Book store that sells last months used books for 50% off ? Does Steven King complain about it ?

    SHOULD they get a cut ? Maybe, They made their cut when they sold the game in the first place, it's the same way with a Music CD or that used blu-ray disc you picked up last week from the video store. This is the problem with it, this is the marketplace and it's always been this way. By GM or Toyota making money off a second sale, is like a car dealer selling the car twice and that is not 100% right in my eyes.

    So, they sell a game, then offer a DLC, they make more money. Crap, I paid $59.99 for black Ops 2 when it was released, then a month later, I picked up the season pass (4000 MS points or $50) because I saw the value in it.

    Devs SHOULD not get more but, if there is a reasonable workaround to make everyone happy (cheaper used type games and devs making something) then I am all for it but, to charge full price for a month old used game is not acceptable in my eyes or anyone elses who looks for the value in used games.

    Make better games, lower the price, used games would almost go away and the devs would make more money. Used games are only a value in the marketplace because of the price. If the price was right, there would not be a need for them for most people.
    Last edited by DavidinCT; 07-01-2013 at 04:40 PM.
    07-01-2013 04:10 PM
  13. curseoftheninja's Avatar
    On that logic, Sony gives away retail games (better value line up than Microsoft has) on PSN over the last months for free, games that were $50-60 at game stop, so they will stop selling them because of that ?
    Well, the difference is that PS+ is limited to a set number of games, and one has to own a PS+ membership. If every single game came out at $49.99, this could potentially cut into a lot of Game Stop's business.
    07-01-2013 04:28 PM
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