06-24-2013 08:58 PM
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  1. vovakyan's Avatar
    Emi,
    This is a problem with public school system, they only read picture books now a days. No need for critical thinking.
    06-21-2013 12:27 AM
  2. michfan's Avatar
    PR disaster? what you wanted from Microsoft, drawings explaining why they wanted a 24 hour check? are you that silly you cant understand their English or the English some good few news sites like WPcentral that tried to give not crappy info others like The verge, kotaku did?

    why news sites like the verge, engadget, kotaku, instead of making crappy articles, didnt they make a better job explaining in apparently better English how the DRM would benefit? now some features are gone, engadget seems to do it but why not before? why people in The Verge like tom Warren talked crap, gave false rumors and today he was talking more crap like "oh Xbox lost good features blabla" like if he didn't give bad information in the verge.
    news sites LOVED to give bad news about MS, like when they said "ALL games were running in NVidia blabla" and it was just one game and it was developer decision. but then in small words "update" at the end of the article where not many would read that crap and they would read the title, see the pictures and scream "M$ fail, all the games were running in pcs! not even windows 8 so they don't even have confidence in windows 8"
    so yeah, only because YOU apparently need drawings and special words like if you were in kindergarten, it doesn't mean they never explained anything, and gave reasons for the DRM to be in place. maybe im still smarter, and I will be always smarter than you, because I understood the theory of what Microsoft was offering me and it sounded good.
    How about MS directly address why they need the 24hr check instead of leaving it up to everyone to answer/guess for themselves? They couldn't even offer a coherent sentence, let alone a drawing. As for your condescending attitude ... it is abundantly clear who has the higher intelligence just from reading Keith's and your posts in this thread. Here's a hint -- it isn't you .
    06-21-2013 12:33 AM
  3. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    PR disaster? what you wanted from Microsoft, drawings explaining why they wanted a 24 hour check? are you that silly you cant understand their English or the English some good few news sites like WPcentral that tried to give not crappy info others like The verge, kotaku did?

    why news sites like the verge, engadget, kotaku, instead of making crappy articles, didnt they make a better job explaining in apparently better English how the DRM would benefit? now some features are gone, engadget seems to do it but why not before? why people in The Verge like tom Warren talked crap, gave false rumors and today he was talking more crap like "oh Xbox lost good features blabla" like if he didn't give bad information in the verge.
    news sites LOVED to give bad news about MS, like when they said "ALL games were running in NVidia blabla" and it was just one game and it was developer decision. but then in small words "update" at the end of the article where not many would read that crap and they would read the title, see the pictures and scream "M$ fail, all the games were running in pcs! not even windows 8 so they don't even have confidence in windows 8"
    so yeah, only because YOU apparently need drawings and special words like if you were in kindergarten, it doesn't mean they never explained anything, and gave reasons for the DRM to be in place. maybe im still smarter, and I will be always smarter than you, because I understood the theory of what Microsoft was offering me and it sounded good.
    Hmm, what would I want?

    1. NOT telling people that the solution is "play the 360." It's true, but it's not a well-thought-out statement. It is delivered as almost a "we dare you not to buy our console."
    2. ANY meaningful clarification on the sharing feature. Honestly, the "library that follows you anywhere," idea isn't something that needs the DRM to exist, nor is it even that big of a deal when the disc can do the install once and be on the console forever (though they've since added the persistent disc check).
    3. Have some statements that aren't "we'll explain later." It sounds like the concept is either half-hearted or intended to fail.

    As for what other sites did, it's not their job to be the Microsoft PR department. On top of that, they can't report on what they don't know (such as the way that the sharing would work).

    It's pretty great how you can't have any kind of rational discussion though, between the vitriolic demeanor, constant insults, and total lack of grammar above a third-grade level. Honestly, all saying that I "need drawings and special words like if you were in kindergarten" does is completely dismantle your argument, both because what you're doing is ignoring the fact that EVERYONE was asking for clarification that never came, and it makes your points seem more about attacking me than providing a logical, well-made argument.

    So, not only did you deliver falsehoods by stating that Microsoft was being blatant in their explanations, but you also elected to deliver those falsehoods in a manner that made you sound like you are incapable of rational discussions. I'll go ahead and ignore your blind defense of lies and half-truths though, because it's not worth the verbal abuse to read your unfounded lies and insults.
    michfan and Savin Nay Wangtal like this.
    06-21-2013 12:35 AM
  4. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Emi,
    This is a problem with public school system, they only read picture books now a days. No need for critical thinking.
    There's critical thinking (which applies to determining the reason behind the inclusion of the Kinect), and then there's expecting us to guess things right on our own (which applies to interpreting why the Kinect has to be present for the console to POST, along with trying to figure out how the family sharing would function).
    06-21-2013 12:40 AM
  5. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    They changed those features without any regard to the people that preordered it. That is why those people should cancel, to make a statement, and maybe even get some of those features back. People need to make a statement with there pocketbooks.
    Thing is, this all happened already, which is why the change occurred. Microsoft changed the game management policies without thinking about how the group could be inconvenienced (such as military members and those in rural areas). People spoke with their wallets (sorry, we don't all have pocketbooks, hah), and that's part of why there were big preorder differences being reported.

    Microsoft realized that not only were those who wouldn't be able to rely on their Internet going to pass on the console, but there were many who would pass simply on principal of inconvenience to those who were being forcibly removed from the Xbox One experience with that online requirement. Those two groups likely outweigh those such as yourself, who will avoid the console because it doesn't offer MORE than the PlayStation, in terms of game management, but rather policies on-par with what Sony has in-place.

    Those such as yourself are free to speak with your pocketbooks (something I ALWAYS encourage those who are not satisfied to do--I did it for about 5.5 years with EA), but I think the issue here is that the group who will do so on your side of the aisle is smaller than the pro-disc opposition.
    06-21-2013 12:49 AM
  6. michfan's Avatar
    I don't think you are following what I am saying. Anyways, I preordered the console because of some great new features. They changed those features without any regard to the people that preordered it. That is why those people should cancel, to make a statement, and maybe even get some of those features back. People need to make a statement with there pocketbooks. You can always change your mind and buy one again. Especially if you like paying more for less.
    I am following what you are saying in your original post and it's your $500 so do whatever you want with it. Since then, however, you've gone from complaining about the ignorance of the misinformed to perpetuating the ignorance of the misinformed. Then you make a cheekie little remark about the public education system, when it appears whatever brilliant alternative education you came up through didn't adequately teach you proper use of their/there/they're. WPCentral isn't gamefaqs or ign, people come here for something a little more than sophomoric level banter.
    06-21-2013 01:04 AM
  7. vovakyan's Avatar
    How about MS directly address why they need the 24hr check instead of leaving it up to everyone to answer/guess for themselves? They couldn't even offer a coherent sentence, let alone a drawing. As for your condescending attitude ... it is abundantly clear who has the higher intelligence just from reading Keith's and your posts in this thread. Here's a hint -- it isn't you .
    Actually, MS clarified it multiple times. People didn't want to hear it. They were concerned with overly dramatic headlines. How many times have they said start screen, and people are still complaining about a start button. They can't advertise intelligence. They made a major announcement before E3,and people still didn't want to hear it.

    They should have brought out the system as originally advertised, and then they could have made an offline mode. Taking away the great features was not the solution. That is my point.

    Keith admitted that 99% of people have internet and for those people the DRM was better, and now MSFT is catering to the 1%. I had purchased it for those very advantages and I rightfully so canceled it.

    There are a lot of rural places that people would love to have cable, but it is not offered. One day it will come around until then they can use the antenna. Doesn't mean we should go to major cities and take their cable away.

    If Microsoft wants to succeed in the future innovative ideas will payoff, and backward ideas will put them further behind their real competition.
    06-21-2013 01:07 AM
  8. vovakyan's Avatar
    WPCentral isn't gamefaqs or ign, people come here for something a little more than sophomoric level banter.
    That is why I am here. I was looking forward to all of the innovation MSFT was starting to offer, but it is slipping away. I had started to migrate away from Google (search, email, android), and my wife is starting to like using my RT over her Ipad. I had high hopes for MSFT, but I feel like the needs of people like me are getting pushed aside by whiners, who really do not support MSFT anyways. If they want to appease them good for them, people like me will find a new ecosystem.
    06-21-2013 01:21 AM
  9. dba415's Avatar
    Why are you comparing the Xbox One to anything Apple has done. Last I checked MacBooks, iPads, and iPods don't have to be connected to the internet every 24 hours for it to work. Neither should the Xbox One if you are solely playing single player games.
    06-21-2013 01:26 AM
  10. AngryNil's Avatar
    Keith admitted that 99% of people have internet and for those people the DRM was better, and now MSFT is catering to the 1%. I had purchased it for those very advantages and I rightfully so canceled it.
    Doesn't matter what's better, people hate change. You rightfully cancelled, doesn't mean everyone else should. Just because Microsoft took a futuristic approach doesn't mean it would have succeeded in the market. Sometimes, you need to get your foot in the door before you welcome yourself into the home.
    06-21-2013 01:27 AM
  11. EchoRedux's Avatar
    Whether you are for or against Microsoft's change of heart over their DRM policy, I think everyone can agree Microsoft failed on both fronts:

    First, announcing the "next gen" DRM capabilities, Microsoft completely ignores a segment of users, which includes hardcore gamers with the 24 hour check in requirement. Yes, active military personnel kind of slipped their minds. Yes, people go out of town for days in places with unreliable/no internet. No, not everyone can use the data on their phone to check in. 50% of cellphones in the US are still dumbphones, and many smartphone users have data sharing features restricted because of lousy carriers (AT&T). Heck, my old roommate who owns a 360, PS3, PS2, Dreamcast, GameCube, Wii, n64 etc wasn't interested in the XBone. Why? Simple. He keeps his games in his basement which is not where his cable modem is located. In fact, his home is well-built and Wi-Fi from the first floor cannot reach his basement, despite him using a modern and powerful router. What should he do, refigure his house? Move? Microsoft took people, both civilians and military, out of the market. Simple as that. Their suggestion? Buy a 360. For a company that likes to hires geniuses, they sure do stupid things.

    Second, repealing the "next gen" DRM capabilities, Microsoft does not compromise but does a complete reversal. Rather than tweaking the check in requirement by allowing people with a disc to play offline, they decide against all benefits, go back on their word, no apology, no in-depth explanations, no transparency, nothing. Just a "you spoke, we listened" approach. I think both of their decisions were half-baked. All or nothing, why is there no solution in-between?

    The reality is, while the restrictions allowed benefits like family sharing (which probably had a bunch of limitations that were never addressed), they took people out of the market entirely. Now without restrictions, you have additional people in the market who want XBone, but don't care about the full capabilities online mode provides. Microsoft captures individuals who are otherwise not in the market.

    I did see some comments that were downright illogical, so with regards to cloud computing being used to unload processes from games, I have the following to say:

    In this scenario, DRM prevented offline gamers from buying an XBone. DRM also prevented online gamers angry at the requirement from buying an XBone. However, since every user now has internet, you believe that developers would embrace cloud computing capabilities with higher implementations. This makes little sense. I'm going to use a random number, say 50 million users in the installed base enjoying this.

    Now pretend all else is equal, but with no 24 hour check in. Let's say 4 million people with internet who were angry are added to the installed base. Let's say there's 10 million offline players that now have XBones too. Why would the developers choose not to implement these capabilities who are now reaching 54 million over 50 million? Also, you now have 10 million players enjoying XBone who have it for single player and local multiplayer. The numbers are just an example, but you cannot deny that the market for the device is larger as a whole without the restrictions. How is this a bad thing?
    DavidinCT likes this.
    06-21-2013 02:27 AM
  12. MikeSo's Avatar
    "As an Aerospace Engineer working for the DOD, I saw the potential in all of your new products."
    What does that even mean? Are DOD Aerospace Engineers somehow uniquely qualified to judge consumer electronics? What an odd statement.

    I understand the frustration though. Some of the sharing features where innovative and would have been great in many situations. But I don't understand why MS had to go "all or nothing" here - why have the stupid 24 hour connection requirement, or the "you have to be my Xbox Friend for 30 days before I can lend you a game" restriction? There must have been a way to do both, I'd imagine.

    But based on the reaction overall, I'm happy that MS went back to the old, simple DRM way. And they clearly overestimated the broadband connectivity among their user base... hell, I read that only about half of the 360s out there are connected to the Internet. That's a pretty big market.
    06-21-2013 02:32 AM
  13. Ob Nesnej's Avatar
    I am still getting one i dont mind the DRM, i dont mind that i dont get the same TV features, i dont even mind that i needed to be online my TV already have all the streaming features i just want to play Forza and enjoy some games i cant get on my pc.
    06-21-2013 02:38 AM
  14. Downtown Taco's Avatar
    I migrated from Android Central to weigh in here...

    Oh, Microsoft...Microsoft......Microsoft... I think that at the end of the day, no one, and I mean NO ONE, is going to be happy with this console.

    "Oh, the DRM is too protected and I can't share stuff."
    "Oh, they removed my DRM, I can't play cloud games."
    "Oh, Kinect creepily stalks me in a worse way than my crazy ex girlfriend."
    "My XBOX doesn't bake cookies for me."

    We get the idea. People are going to complain no matter what. Microsoft had the chance to innovate and try something new, but they caved in to complaints. While I fully support listening to your fan base, I more so support innovation. It's okay to try and fail... well maybe not in the corporate world. I would have liked to see something different from Microsoft, however I guess that won't be the case yet.
    mister2d likes this.
    06-21-2013 03:24 AM
  15. yehuda92's Avatar
    on one hand, I am sad about the lost drms capabilities (cloud library, family sharing) but on the other hand I am supper excited that they have made the xbox one region free!
    06-21-2013 03:51 AM
  16. Coreldan's Avatar
    I figure they can still implement the good things about the DRMs to digital games at this point. Most of it doesn't add in any restrictions that would make em look bad afterwards, but still give more freedom to digital games. This way you could make the choice between having the good sides of DRM with digital games or the free trading etc with physical games. I see no reason why they couldn't do this..
    06-21-2013 03:57 AM
  17. Storl's Avatar
    I figure they can still implement the good things about the DRMs to digital games at this point. Most of it doesn't add in any restrictions that would make em look bad afterwards, but still give more freedom to digital games. This way you could make the choice between having the good sides of DRM with digital games or the free trading etc with physical games. I see no reason why they couldn't do this..
    For this to be truly "fair" though the Digital Version would need to be a bit cheaper, 5-15$ as you lose resale and trading, this should give people a lot more reasons to buy the digital version instead of the disc + Publishers don't lose nearly as much money thanks to the lack of resale on the digital titles :)
    06-21-2013 04:21 AM
  18. Huime's Avatar
    Aerospace in DOD so what?
    I am also a senior AE working for one of the world's top aerospace company. Dont't need to brag about your prestige.

    The market is not like government contract where lobbying is more than anything else. Customer is everything to us and no point pushing out superior tech that has no market for. And as an AE you should know this better than anything else.
    06-21-2013 04:29 AM
  19. Coreldan's Avatar
    For this to be truly "fair" though the Digital Version would need to be a bit cheaper, 5-15$ as you lose resale and trading, this should give people a lot more reasons to buy the digital version instead of the disc + Publishers don't lose nearly as much money thanks to the lack of resale on the digital titles :)
    Yeah, this is sort of one of things I included in "good sides of DRM", but tbh I'm a bit sceptic that they would be cheaper with this current system, but at least getting the other good stuff would be nice :P
    06-21-2013 05:05 AM
  20. JammyGitz's Avatar
    I'm not buying a console, but even if I was, it would be a PS4.
    06-21-2013 05:33 AM
  21. Storl's Avatar
    Yeah, this is sort of one of things I included in "good sides of DRM", but tbh I'm a bit sceptic that they would be cheaper with this current system, but at least getting the other good stuff would be nice :P
    Yes i also believe that the digital games will NOT be cheaper at all, because People are going to pay anyway, i just meant that for the digital copy to be "fair" it should be cheaper, not that it actually will :)
    06-21-2013 05:47 AM
  22. Coreldan's Avatar
    Yes i also believe that the digital games will NOT be cheaper at all, because People are going to pay anyway, i just meant that for the digital copy to be "fair" it should be cheaper, not that it actually will :)
    Well, I'm no financial genious but I think it would make sense for them too when you think about it. Like.. make them pay 60usd for a disc based game cos it most likely will be traded anyways leading into loss of revenue for the company. The more people they could lure into buying a digital copy, the less tradeable copies there are around. I would think that even like.. 40 usd digital copy and 60usd disc copy would be a profitable method for them. The difference is big enough that many would probably opt out of the trading/reselling and get the digital copy, potentially leading into bigger sales..

    But thats just guessing, really.. :D
    06-21-2013 05:56 AM
  23. paulm187's Avatar
    Or maybe you can do the right thing and support the developers and the digital future vision by buying only Digital copies of the games which will be released along with retail on day one and enjoy all the benefits announced earlier except for family sharing which is not available for launch but will arrive for DD copies later on.
    06-21-2013 06:03 AM
  24. AiR DEGETA's Avatar
    Overreaction maybe, I loved the features that came with the DRM rules, though I was disappointed when they removed it I do understand it. Even they have a perception of the big bad wolf in the public eye Microsoft does take user feedback very seriously so I wasn't completely surprise when they made the changes. That is why I also have a Microsoft ecosystem Zune, Xbox, WP, & WIn8 PC. Features are great but the reason I buy consoles is for the games first & foremost. The PS4 doesn't really interest me so I'm sticking with Xbox. Not everyone is going to be happy either way but the fact that they heard the outcry and made a decision to reverse for an Company like as big as Microsoft I thought that was cool that they still do listen. I wish they an option to choose either one you prefer, I don't purchase Used Games so I had the choose I would turn on the DRM features & live blissfully.
    06-21-2013 06:12 AM
  25. easyrun99's Avatar
    While MS communication was very poor, the "reversal" is not the end. MS can now slowly roll these features out, since the equipment was built to support, as the public's willingness to adopt the new paradigm increases.
    06-21-2013 08:01 AM
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