06-24-2013 07:58 PM
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  1. vovakyan's Avatar
    I have a 3Mbps DSL connection. You can BEAT a disc-based game in the time it would take to finish a 20GB install. 20 GB = 21,474,836,480 bytes. That is 171,798,691,840 bits. I get 3 Mbps, or 3,145,728 bits per-second. That install would therefore take 54,613.3 seconds. That's 910.2 minutes. That's 15.17 hours. I can literally beat the entirety of a game fast than that. In some cases, I could beat TWO games faster than that.
    I think you need to call your cable company and check the rates, you might be surprised. Maybe you haven't looked into the pricing lately.

    On another note, 20GB = 15 Hours. So is it easier to drive to a store and buy it and not be able to have all the cool DRM features. Or how about this, you preorder it digitally. At midnight your XBOX ONE would do an automatic download and by the time you were home from work the next day, you could play your game. Or if you don't work it would be ready early afternoon, by the time you woke up.
    06-21-2013 12:05 PM
  2. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    I think you need to call your cable company and check the rates, you might be surprised. Maybe you haven't looked into the pricing lately.

    On another note, 20GB = 15 Hours. So is it easier to drive to a store and buy it and not be able to have all the cool DRM features. Or how about this, you preorder it digitally. At midnight your XBOX ONE would do an automatic download and by the time you were home from work the next day, you could play your game. Or if you don't work it would be ready early afternoon, by the time you woke up.
    1. No, it's $30 for the first 6 months, then $50 after that. After 12 months, it says "$42.95-$64.95," not sure where we'd fall in that range. However, that's the 25Mbps connection, I forgot that they dumped 15 Mbps connection.

    2. I don't work right now, taking summer classes. I also don't sleep until 3 PM. I actually tend to want to play games at midnight, though, as I am usually up until 2 AM or so.
    06-21-2013 12:16 PM
  3. EchoRedux's Avatar
    So according to this "MS employee", what many call the coolest feature of the "next gen" DRM system is just glorified demo sharing. Family share is a bogus NON-FACTOR.

    From the article:

    "Anyone who you deem to be family had access to these games regardless of where they are in the world. When your family member accesses any of your games, theyre placed into a special demo mode. This demo mode in most cases would be the full game with a 15-45 minute timer and in some cases an hour. When the time limit was up they would automatically be prompted to the Marketplace so that they may order it if liked the game."


    This is the "future" many here are trying to defend. I'd gladly give up this worthless feature in order to play my games offline.
    06-21-2013 12:41 PM
  4. michfan's Avatar
    Cori and everyone else,

    I want to clarify a few things. I think MSFT has potential and this was a step back. Like I have said before, I am a MSFT guy. The people that originally preordered the console liked the DRM policy, now that has been changed. If they do not cancel then MSFT won't get the message. If things are launched the way they are, why would they want to change?

    As for cloud computing, MSFT said they would still support it. I bet they will, but will developers, if they know that people aren't going to be online? And if people argue that most people are online anyways then we took a step back.

    Major changes in innovation do not come with the infrastructure first, but the technology. Did we build the highway system or the vehicle first? Did we build electrical infrastructure or the light bulb? Did we put in a sewage system before we had flushing toilets? The point is innovation leads infrastructure. If we don't let that innovation happen then no one will capitalize on the infrastructure. That's how we have made so much progress in so little time, and also why we might me plateauing. When all of those technological advancement were made it took time for the infrastructure to catch up. There are still places where there are no paved roads should we all use horse and buggy?
    MS wants to move in the direction you want them to, but they see that they cannot succeed with such policies right now. Sony and Nintendo do not even aspire for such a vision, primarily because they don't have the capability to do it. I think MS needs to address internal issues right now -- e.g., get a competent leadership and marketing team in place ahead of the XBox One launch. That team should then get to work on finding middle ground that restores widely accepted aspects of the original policy, or offering two paths of membership (new DRM, traditional DRM). Mattrick will haunt this project for the remainder of his time with XBox. People simply won't forget his callous attitude toward the military and people who didn't like/understand the DRM, as well as the extreme backpedaling that came off like "we're going to pick up our toys and go home now".
    06-21-2013 12:43 PM
  5. vovakyan's Avatar
    1. No, it's $30 for the first 6 months, then $50 after that. After 12 months, it says "$42.95-$64.95," not sure where we'd fall in that range. However, that's the 25Mbps connection, I forgot that they dumped 15 Mbps connection.

    2. I don't work right now, taking summer classes. I also don't sleep until 3 PM. I actually tend to want to play games at midnight, though, as I am usually up until 2 AM or so.
    1. So that is half of what you said originally. Also, when the promotion expires, call back and they will give you another one especially if you threaten to cancel. I know a lot of people that get that kind of speed at that price for a year. DSL is probably on a contract too.

    2. Well you will be in full-time school when the system comes out. And if you do buy a game at midnight, how long does it take to come back home install the game and actually play before 2am. Not much time left. Either way, there are always excuses to not progress.
    06-21-2013 12:47 PM
  6. vertigoOne's Avatar
    So according to this "MS employee", what many call the coolest feature of the "next gen" DRM system is just glorified demo sharing. Family share is a bogus NON-FACTOR.

    From the article:

    "Anyone who you deem to be family had access to these games regardless of where they are in the world. When your family member accesses any of your games, theyre placed into a special demo mode. This demo mode in most cases would be the full game with a 15-45 minute timer and in some cases an hour. When the time limit was up they would automatically be prompted to the Marketplace so that they may order it if liked the game."


    This is the "future" many here are trying to defend. I'd gladly give up this worthless feature in order to play my games offline.
    There have already been counterstatements that this was not the case...what would be the point of sharing demo versions?

    And why would there be any limitation on the number of people and their relationship with you if it were in fact only demos? Demo versions are already freely available on current platforms, why tout this as a benefit if it was a step backward?
    06-21-2013 01:03 PM
  7. EchoRedux's Avatar
    There have already been counterstatements that this was not the case...what would be the point of sharing demo versions?
    Those counterstatements were to save face. If it was truly unrestricted game play, it would have been a killer feature. Microsoft would have highlighted this fact, and went on about not having to buy the same game 3 times for a family of three gamers. Seeing how Microsoft was so murky in providing details, I am highly likely to believe that the family share feature was nothing more than a gimmick.
    06-21-2013 01:06 PM
  8. vertigoOne's Avatar
    Those counterstatements were to save face. If it was truly unrestricted game play, it would have been a killer feature. Microsoft would have highlighted this fact, and went on about not having to buy the same game 3 times for a family of three gamers. Seeing how Microsoft was so murky in providing details, I am highly likely to believe that the family share feature was nothing more than a gimmick.
    Or, Microsoft was already planning to make the policy change and felt that it would be a waste of everyone's time to explain a concept that they already knew was being axed.
    06-21-2013 01:10 PM
  9. mister2d's Avatar
    So according to this "MS employee", what many call the coolest feature of the "next gen" DRM system is just glorified demo sharing. Family share is a bogus NON-FACTOR.

    From the article:

    "Anyone who you deem to be family had access to these games regardless of where they are in the world. When your family member accesses any of your games, they’re placed into a special demo mode. This demo mode in most cases would be the full game with a 15-45 minute timer and in some cases an hour. When the time limit was up they would automatically be prompted to the Marketplace so that they may order it if liked the game."


    This is the "future" many here are trying to defend. I'd gladly give up this worthless feature in order to play my games offline.

    If this is true I absolutely agree with you.
    06-21-2013 01:16 PM
  10. EchoRedux's Avatar
    Or, Microsoft was already planning to make the policy change and felt that it would be a waste of everyone's time to explain a concept that they already knew was being axed.
    I'm not accepting that. If they didn't have everything thought through, they never would have spoken of a policy that would garner distrust and backlash. They could have shown "possible" scenarios and highlighted the cool features. If they knew it was going to be axed, they would have never given any information about it during E3.
    06-21-2013 01:17 PM
  11. vovakyan's Avatar
    So according to this "MS employee", what many call the coolest feature of the "next gen" DRM system is just glorified demo sharing. Family share is a bogus NON-FACTOR.

    From the article:

    "Anyone who you deem to be family had access to these games regardless of where they are in the world. When your family member accesses any of your games, they’re placed into a special demo mode. This demo mode in most cases would be the full game with a 15-45 minute timer and in some cases an hour. When the time limit was up they would automatically be prompted to the Marketplace so that they may order it if liked the game."


    This is the "future" many here are trying to defend. I'd gladly give up this worthless feature in order to play my games offline.
    If that was the case than you are right, but are you sure that is accurate. I don't think there are any other sources for that.
    06-21-2013 01:26 PM
  12. Darkgift's Avatar
    I have to disagree with the OP. I didn't mind the DRM policy either, buy it was a drastic change. Now that they stopped it, and people feel comfortable again, once they have been purchased, Microsoft can now slowly roll out these experiences on an opt in basis. Choice is always better.
    06-21-2013 01:36 PM
  13. PhoenixSoul's Avatar
    So according to this "MS employee", what many call the coolest feature of the "next gen" DRM system is just glorified demo sharing. Family share is a bogus NON-FACTOR.

    From the article:

    "Anyone who you deem to be family had access to these games regardless of where they are in the world. When your family member accesses any of your games, theyre placed into a special demo mode. This demo mode in most cases would be the full game with a 15-45 minute timer and in some cases an hour. When the time limit was up they would automatically be prompted to the Marketplace so that they may order it if liked the game."


    This is the "future" many here are trying to defend. I'd gladly give up this worthless feature in order to play my games offline.
    I posted this in another thread. That pastebin post is BS in my opinion.

    xbox-one-family-share.png

    xbox-one-family-share2.png

    xbox-one-family-share3.png

    Credit goes to EvilFiek for this one.

    familysharing1oucv.png
    Mystictrust and mister2d like this.
    06-21-2013 01:56 PM
  14. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    1. So that is half of what you said originally. Also, when the promotion expires, call back and they will give you another one especially if you threaten to cancel. I know a lot of people that get that kind of speed at that price for a year. DSL is probably on a contract too.

    2. Well you will be in full-time school when the system comes out. And if you do buy a game at midnight, how long does it take to come back home install the game and actually play before 2am. Not much time left. Either way, there are always excuses to not progress.
    1. No, it's not half of what I said. Saying that it's $30 for 6 months doesn't make the fact that it's $50+ afterwards less true.

    2. We have no idea what the install time is, so I can't say, but it's under 15 hours, I know that.
    06-21-2013 02:15 PM
  15. vovakyan's Avatar
    1. No, it's not half of what I said. Saying that it's $30 for 6 months doesn't make the fact that it's $50+ afterwards less true.

    2. We have no idea what the install time is, so I can't say, but it's under 15 hours, I know that.
    1. Double check with your DSL provider and you will find that you have that low price for only a limited time (12 months). And if that is the case, then admit you will be paying $40/month for DSL.
    2. Yes you are right. I never said it was 15 hours. But let me spell it out for you.
    12:00 AM: In line to pick up game.
    12:30 AM: Paid for game out the door.
    12:45 AM: Got home from the store.
    1:00 AM: Installed playing a game.
    2:00 AM: Your bedtime.
    So that one hour of extra play you might get is good enough reason for you?

    Instead of maybe going to bed waking up early and sharing your game with a friend and having fun. Wow I really do love your option better.
    06-21-2013 02:28 PM
  16. EchoRedux's Avatar
    I posted this in another thread. That pastebin post is BS in my opinion.



    Credit goes to EvilFiek for this one.
    Why should I believe these tweets? Anyways, let's say there's unrestricted family sharing. This gives an added benefit. An extra convenience. But then you have a requirement to be online. This isn't just an inconvenience, or a reduced benefit, this is a complete STOP in function.
    06-21-2013 02:31 PM
  17. vovakyan's Avatar
    Why should I believe these tweets? Anyways, let's say there's unrestricted family sharing. This gives an added benefit. An extra convenience. But then you have a requirement to be online. This isn't just an inconvenience, or a reduced benefit, this is a complete STOP in function.
    Only if you don't have internet. The only major group of gamers this would effect is the military. We should all give up our 4g cell phones, the military servicemen can't access theirs.
    06-21-2013 02:39 PM
  18. EchoRedux's Avatar
    Only if you don't have internet. The only major group of gamers this would effect is the military. We should all give up our 4g cell phones, the military servicemen can't access theirs.
    The proper analogy would be, we should prevent military from owning phones since they have no access to 4G. If you're willing to trust a box that loses all gaming function, even with a gaming disc, I don't know what to tell you. The costs clearly outweigh the benefits.
    06-21-2013 02:42 PM
  19. Coreldan's Avatar
    The proper analogy would be, we should prevent military from owning phones since they have no access to 4G. If you're willing to trust a box that loses all gaming function, even with a gaming disc, I don't know what to tell you. The costs clearly outweigh the benefits.
    My PC is basically rendered useless if the internet cuts off, pretty much instantly with no 24h grace times, cos everything I do on my PC is online. I'm one of those that do not play offline/single player games, at least not on PC.

    I havn't had my internet go out for more than a few hours in a decade, I had no trouble trusting the X1 in this case, cos as said, it's not like any of my other devices are any more useful to me if the internet goes out.

    I will give you that for some people in some areas the check in is probably really nasty, but don't assume it would be for everyone.
    06-21-2013 02:53 PM
  20. vovakyan's Avatar
    The proper analogy would be, we should prevent military from owning phones since they have no access to 4G. If you're willing to trust a box that loses all gaming function, even with a gaming disc, I don't know what to tell you. The costs clearly outweigh the benefits.
    That analogy would not work, because they can buy one. They might not be able to game on it, but they could use it for other things. Just like a cell phone without data. You can have it, turn it on but it's not that useful.

    I am willing to trust it, because I am not paranoid about Microsoft. I know I will have internet, and if I don't have internet their is something horrible happening in the world and gaming won't be my concern.
    vertigoOne likes this.
    06-21-2013 03:26 PM
  21. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    1. Double check with your DSL provider and you will find that you have that low price for only a limited time (12 months). And if that is the case, then admit you will be paying $40/month for DSL.
    2. Yes you are right. I never said it was 15 hours. But let me spell it out for you.
    12:00 AM: In line to pick up game.
    12:30 AM: Paid for game out the door.
    12:45 AM: Got home from the store.
    1:00 AM: Installed playing a game.
    2:00 AM: Your bedtime.
    So that one hour of extra play you might get is good enough reason for you?

    Instead of maybe going to bed waking up early and sharing your game with a friend and having fun. Wow I really do love your option better.
    1. What? We've had this DSL connection for, IDK, 5 years? It's $20 or $30 per month, I can't recall.
    2. I think you overestimate the time there. I live within 15 minutes of 4 GameStops (2 were EB Games stores, but were converted after that buyout). 2 of them are across the street from another, and a third is one block away from those two. I can get in and out of that third one (which is NEVER busy) in 5 minutes, no problem. It would be more like getting home at about 12:20 AM. We also have no idea if a) the install takes 15 minutes, or b) if you can play during the install (though I doubt it, people think it possible with a digital installation). Oh, and what's the alternative? Start the DL at midnight, it finishes at 3 PM, and I get to play it when I get home from class, around 7:30 PM. I'd MUCH prefer to pick up the disc, get home no later than 12:30 AM, get it installed by 12:45 AM, play for 75-90 minutes, then be able to wake up at 9 or 10 AM, play for 2-3 MORE hours, then head off to class.

    See, you're doing what EVERYONE seems to do--you make the assumption that I'm saying to get rid of your way for my way. I'm saying let them co-exist, because it's not even hard to conceive of a way that they could (I've given examples on multiple occasions as it is). I like my option better because I get to play for 3-4 hours before class, and it doesn't hinder your intentions whatsoever.
    06-21-2013 03:56 PM
  22. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    My PC is basically rendered useless if the internet cuts off, pretty much instantly with no 24h grace times, cos everything I do on my PC is online. I'm one of those that do not play offline/single player games, at least not on PC.
    Well, that is because you CHOOSE to not use the offline functions. In the Xbox One's original scenario, the offline functions would be forcibly taken away after 24 hours. Your disinterest in a campaign doesn't mean that no one likes it.
    06-21-2013 04:01 PM
  23. EchoRedux's Avatar
    It's not about having internet, it's about getting internet to the XBone. Like I explained earlier, my old roommate keeps his systems in his basement. No jack for his internet there. Modem and router are elsewhere. WiFi does not reach his set up. Active military personnel. People who go on trips. No matter how you slice and dice it, supporting the old model shuts these people out completely. The new model gives everyone the same capabilities as the 360/PS4, the old model gives some people no capabilities. Which do you think is better?

    Honestly, it doesn't sound like anyone's excited to share games with a family plan anyways. Seems like everyone is really excited to freeload off of other people's libraries. Seems kind of selfish.
    06-21-2013 04:24 PM
  24. vertigoOne's Avatar
    It's not about having internet, it's about getting internet to the XBone. Like I explained earlier, my old roommate keeps his systems in his basement. No jack for his internet there. Modem and router are elsewhere. WiFi does not reach his set up. Active military personnel. People who go on trips. No matter how you slice and dice it, supporting the old model shuts these people out completely. The new model gives everyone the same capabilities as the 360/PS4, the old model gives some people no capabilities. Which do you think is better?

    Honestly, it doesn't sound like anyone's excited to share games with a family plan anyways. Seems like everyone is really excited to freeload off of other people's libraries. Seems kind of selfish.
    I guess I am an exception because I automatically thought "hey, I buy a lot of games and I have some friends that do not, but I like to game with them...this is perfect for me and my friends."

    In a way it is selfish I guess, I would rather play my games with friends than by myself or with randoms.
    06-21-2013 04:31 PM
  25. Oliver Newell's Avatar
    DRM - always online and cloud gaming IS the future and both MS and Sony know this, but tis not ready yet. A lot of people still don't have very good internet connections. Maybe in 2 or 3 years MS will re-patch the XBOX for cloud gaming and always online etc, but right now, its not ready, and more importantly, the buying public aren't ready for it.
    06-21-2013 05:06 PM
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