Still Unsure About Xbox One vs. PlayStation 4?

ag1986

Banned
Jan 14, 2013
486
0
0
Visit site
I'll give you that one, but the point about PC's getting better is kind of nonsense.

Microsoft could keep releasing new versions of the PS4 and the Xbox One with better hardware every year, but that kind of defeats the purpose.

When it comes down to it, consoles give you the most for your dollar. And the next generation has lived up to that statement.

Sure they can. Forget getting better, my 1 year old gaming laptop is already superior to the X1 and PS4 in every parameter with regards to pure hardware capabilities. Consoles are always cheaper, granted, but a good gaming PC can do much more than a console for the right target market. Kind of like a "surface is superior to iPad/Android because it does more" argument.
 

Coreldan

New member
Oct 2, 2012
2,514
0
0
Visit site
Sure they can. Forget getting better, my 1 year old gaming laptop is already superior to the X1 and PS4 in every parameter with regards to pure hardware capabilities. Consoles are always cheaper, granted, but a good gaming PC can do much more than a console for the right target market. Kind of like a "surface is superior to iPad/Android because it does more" argument.

I don't think it's that simple though, consoles are almost higher priority in the gaming world than PCs nowadays, short from like MMOs. Just about every blockbuster that isn't MMO comes on consoles and works just fine for them, but many news game won't be enjoyable on a few year old gaming laptop anymore :p And I say this as primarly a PC gamer and I've had 5 years worth of gaming laptops in recent history, latest 2 years being a gaming PC and I still think the same, even with the gaming PC.

Now I just want games optimized for what I have..
 

Jas00555

Retired Ambassador
Jun 8, 2013
2,413
0
0
Visit site
Thank you for clarifying that. I thought the GPU in the Xbox was better because I remember when they were first announced, everyone was saying they were basically the same then I remember a story how the Microsoft upgraded their GPU. Maybe it was Sony and I gave source amnesia, but thanks for explaining.

I also agree about the cloud computing being a big factor. I remember when I heard them say 300,000 servers I was like WOW, but 12-year olds (I realize the average gamer is in their mid-20s, that's just my nickname for people who freak out over minute differences) always go "cloud computing is a gateway to DRM", which sounds borderline tin foil hat.

I'm very excited about cloud computing because it might make streaming my old Xbox and Xbox 360 games a reality, which might not be for everyone, but sometimes I like to play my older games... Just because.
 

Keith Wallace

New member
Nov 8, 2012
3,179
0
0
Visit site
Explain how a PC can't get better please.

Also, I agree consoles are the best bang for your buck, but that isn't what you have been arguing.

Consoles will never be as good as PCs when talking about graphics and performances. They won't be because of the different business models, and there is nothing wrong with that.

I think what he is getting at is that a PC is not going to get better without additional hardware investments. The PC already starts several hundred dollars above the console in price, and for it to get better, that gap in cost is only going to grow. A GPU upgrade will usually run you $200 or more, while the CPU upgrade will be probably $250 or more (depending on your start and end point), and it can be even MORE if you're moving to a CPU with a new socket, which requires $100 for a motherboard.

His point is simply that a PC will not be upgraded on its own, I guess.
 

Keith Wallace

New member
Nov 8, 2012
3,179
0
0
Visit site
I also agree about the cloud computing being a big factor. I remember when I heard them say 300,000 servers I was like WOW, but 12-year olds (I realize the average gamer is in their mid-20s, that's just my nickname for people who freak out over minute differences) always go "cloud computing is a gateway to DRM", which sounds borderline tin foil hat.

It's actually semi-true, depending on its implementation. If they make it so a game requires a constant connection for the server feature, and the game won't function without it, it's sort-of a DRM. However, it's no more a legitimate source of DRM (because you can still sell the game just fine) than any PC game is, since those don't ever get traded in.
 

mase123987

New member
Mar 1, 2012
3,118
0
0
Visit site
I think what he is getting at is that a PC is not going to get better without additional hardware investments. The PC already starts several hundred dollars above the console in price, and for it to get better, that gap in cost is only going to grow. A GPU upgrade will usually run you $200 or more, while the CPU upgrade will be probably $250 or more (depending on your start and end point), and it can be even MORE if you're moving to a CPU with a new socket, which requires $100 for a motherboard.

His point is simply that a PC will not be upgraded on its own, I guess.

New drivers can and do improve performance. So can OS updates. Both cost no or small amounts of money.
 
Nov 7, 2012
540
0
0
Visit site
Explain how a PC can't get better please.

Also, I agree consoles are the best bang for your buck, but that isn't what you have been arguing.

Consoles will never be as good as PCs when talking about graphics and performances. They won't be because of the different business models, and there is nothing wrong with that.

It's hard to explain, but first you have to understand more about the vast differences in software and hardware architectures. The way consoles are designed differs a lot from the way a PC is designed.

For instance, a PC has an entire layer of software just for drivers. Without a driver layer, you can greatly increase the throughput of an operating system. A console does not have modular and interchanging hardware, so the computations going to and from the graphics card do not have to pass through a software layer such as drivers.

It's the way the software and hardware comes together as a whole. Individually consoles and PC's have a lot of similarities, but as a whole, the two systems are miles apart. A good example is the kind of graphics power that can be achieved from an Xbox 360. Take an equivalent graphics card in a PC and you will never achieve comparable results.



As far as PC's not able to get better, you're absolutely right. They most certainly can. The problem is they rarely do. Because of how fast the hardware advances in the PC world, developers don't really need to optimize their code to expand the capabilities of older systems. They can simply assume that if you want better performance and results, you are going to upgrade to better hardware that is more capable of processing their code.

On the other hand, console developers know the hardware will never change. The only way a console will improve is with optimizations in the software. So while a PC developer can do the same, they simply aren't focused on the same areas as a console developer.

It's not really easy to understand all of this without a proficient understanding of operating system kernels and the way they work, and without an understanding of how computing systems work down to the hardware abstraction. I tried my best to explain it in simpler terms :)
 

mase123987

New member
Mar 1, 2012
3,118
0
0
Visit site
It's hard to explain, but first you have to understand more about the vast differences in software and hardware architectures. The way consoles are designed differs a lot from the way a PC is designed.

For instance, a PC has an entire layer of software just for drivers. Without a driver layer, you can greatly increase the throughput of an operating system. A console does not have modular and interchanging hardware, so the computations going to and from the graphics card do not have to pass through a software layer such as drivers.

It's the way the software and hardware comes together as a whole. Individually consoles and PC's have a lot of similarities, but as a whole, the two systems are miles apart. A good example is the kind of graphics power that can be achieved from an Xbox 360. Take an equivalent graphics card in a PC and you will never achieve comparable results.



As far as PC's not able to get better, you're absolutely right. They most certainly can. The problem is they rarely do. Because of how fast the hardware advances in the PC world, developers don't really need to optimize their code to expand the capabilities of older systems. They can simply assume that if you want better performance and results, you are going to upgrade to better hardware that is more capable of processing their code.

On the other hand, console developers know the hardware will never change. The only way a console will improve is with optimizations in the software. So while a PC developer can do the same, they simply aren't focused on the same areas as a console developer.

It's not really easy to understand all of this without a proficient understanding of operating system kernels and the way they work, and without an understanding of how computing systems work down to the hardware abstraction. I tried my best to explain it in simpler terms :)

Well that was a long post to just say "I think you don't know what you are talking about. I think I need to dumb things down for you."

Very simple man. Consoles are optimized more then PCs. Everyone knows that. PCs can and do get better with driver updates. PCs don't see the same level of improvement, but they do see it. All that said, PCs will always provide the best graphics. This paragraph sums it all up nicely.
 
Nov 7, 2012
540
0
0
Visit site
Well that was a long post to just say "I think you don't know what you are talking about. I think I need to dumb things down for you."

Very simple man. Consoles are optimized more then PCs. Everyone knows that. PCs can and do get better with driver updates. PCs don't see the same level of improvement, but they do see it. All that said, PCs will always provide the best graphics. This paragraph sums it all up nicely.

Well I was trying to put it in a way that didn't make it sound as harsh/mean lol. I didn't wanna say you don't know what you are talking about, because we are basically anonymous here. You could be an electrical engineer for all I know haha.

And yes, PC's can get better with driver updates, but they will never be able to max out performance compared to eliminated the complete driver layer entirely.

A guess a simple comparison is to say that the driver layer is like Bing Translator (if it were perfect). It doesn't matter if the drivers can translate the instructions perfectly. It will always be better if both sides speak the same language and don't need translation.

Another thing consoles eliminate is a PCI bus communication with the graphics card and the memory bus for the RAM. When you add all these up, you get way more powerful hardware than you would get from a PC with the same specs. All centered around architecture.

You get the idea though. Rather, I'm hoping others reading this learn a thing or two :)
 

TechFreak1

Moderator
May 15, 2013
4,611
5
38
Visit site
Argh.. I can't see the video as I am currently on tether on my L920 (Sky haven't activated my internet yet which was today -.-). the anticipation is killing me lol. In any case if you prefer the PS4 stick with it same with the X1 and just enjoy the damned console. Instead of just bashing one and another, the idea of games was that they were made to be enjoyed as entertainment not for an all out specs brawl. Honestly it is like kids squabbling in kindergarten / nursery over petty things. I can't wait to get my hands both of these consoles and just play :p.

Lastly anyway you look at it the PC will always dominate graphically if you have the cash to burn on a monster of a rig (water cooled, over clocked, sli / crossfire etc etc). However console games tend to come to the PC alot later i.e the GTA series or not at all, though the switch to x86 architecture might change that.
 

RJ Priest

New member
Feb 13, 2013
364
0
0
Visit site
A year or two from now, it'll be interesting to see if the PS4 is really pushing some jaw dropping visuals, but for me at this moment in time, I'd like to get the Xbox One for these reasons:

- I like the feel and design of the Xbox controller better than Playstation.
- Forza 5
- Dead Rising 3

Having gone from PS2 to Xbox 360, whenever I now go back to holding a PS2 or PS3 controller, I just hate the feel of it. Forget graphics, the controller is the system seller for me, lol. :p
 

berty6294

New member
Oct 5, 2012
3,336
1
0
Visit site
A year or two from now, it'll be interesting to see if the PS4 is really pushing some jaw dropping visuals, but for me at this moment in time, I'd like to get the Xbox One for these reasons:

- I like the feel and design of the Xbox controller better than Playstation.
- Forza 5
- Dead Rising 3

Having gone from PS2 to Xbox 360, whenever I now go back to holding a PS2 or PS3 controller, I just hate the feel of it. Forget graphics, the controller is the system seller for me, lol. :p

FORZA FTW!!!!

And I agree about the controller, every time I use the PS3 or PS2 controllers, I can only play for a short period of time because after an hour (or less sometimes) I feel like I'm about to get blisters because of how uncomfortable the controller is! With the Xbox I have never had to stop playing because of discomfort in the controller, it really forms nicely to everyone hands! (even my abnormally large hands)
 

jlzimmerman

Member
Jan 3, 2013
815
7
18
Visit site
I'm going to ask about the elephant in the room. If there is not clear winner or if XBOne is better, why does MS have a review embargo on its console?
 

Coreldan

New member
Oct 2, 2012
2,514
0
0
Visit site
I'm going to ask about the elephant in the room. If there is not clear winner or if XBOne is better, why does MS have a review embargo on its console?

Well, in-house build is typically much further than any half-public build, and what we've seen about the current half-public builds is that they've still been quite buggy. I guess it's not a typical scenario to have such embargo since it makes some people wonder, but I guess it can be said that in media Xbox One can be seen as the underdog for now, maybe they are waiting to have as far polished product before they let media throw more barely justified **** at it. It's not even that PS4 is anything special, it's only in it's current glorified media spot cos they've taken no risks with anything in conjunction with masses not liking the risks Microsoft went for.

I don't think the review embargo necessarily has to do with the quality of games, there's much more to the console. We can see how the game performs on Xbox One right there and I think it's quite clear that if there is no clear winner, at least PS4 has nowhere near the kind of superior gap to the Xbox One that it judging from most of the media should've had.

Maybe I'm just a ******, who knows, but at least after seeing this video, a review embargo is not what I'm worried about and personally I'd think the embargo would be more about the OS-level of things rather than game performance at this time.
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
322,914
Messages
2,242,888
Members
428,004
Latest member
hetb