11-07-2013 12:08 PM
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  1. marcusasdrubal's Avatar
    That's not fanboy anything. Read my post above this one, and you'll get that I don't fanboy on anything. I've read plenty from 3 of those 5 sources, and all 3 have long been poor-quality "journalists." Just because I can spot bias doesn't make me biased. Yes, I have a bias towards what I like, but I don't have irrational blinders on by any means.
    Ok....but I believe when more than 3 sources, say the same thing, and even tried the product, I have to trust. I can't afford to expend 500$ in a product to verify that is currently underpowered.
    11-01-2013 11:46 AM
  2. mrpuny's Avatar
    Where do you sit though? I play my games in my room, on my bed. My TV's probably in the range of 6-8 feet from me, by a generic estimation. It's REALLY tough to say that this isn't something that will matter when it literally shows a sign of mattering before the consoles even launch. Like I've said on multiple occasions, these aren't short-term investments. If 1080p is a stretch for third-party games now, how much improvement can we realistically expect in the long run? When we're getting no information from Microsoft on the matter, it's tough to have much faith in the console.

    For me, it's not really a problem. I don't plan to get the PS4, just because I don't care for the exclusives. I also won't get an Xbox One for probably 6 months or so (that's when my birthday is), so these issues will be fleshed out a bit more or proven benign. However, if I was set to buy the console at launch, I'd legitimately be considering either canceling my pre-order or putting it on eBay. I'd be EXTREMELY mad if the One was never able to hit the 1080p mark over the next decade.

    It would be a MONSTROUS fiasco if they did it, but I'd personally be OK if Microsoft simply started getting stronger GPUs into the consoles and asked/required everyone to mail in their consoles (free of charge, of course) for a free GPU upgrade to help this. We've of-course seen that these companies can create solid games from underperforming hardware, but there REALLY should be a limit of compromise for consumers, in my opinion.

    Microsoft puts apps behind a paywall, which Sony doesn't. Microsoft offers an inferior free-game platform, which Sony's moving onto the PS4, but Microsoft hasn't announced plans for on the One. Microsoft's requiring the Kinect to be purchased, raising the price $100 north of the competition. Microsoft won't let you swap in another HDD like Sony will, and they use that as an excuse to charge $150 for a HDD you could probably get for $60 on Newegg. Xbox LIVE Gold is $10 more than PSN+. Now, we're throwing on there that games aren't running as well on the One as they are on the PS4? I mean, remember that while the games look similar, the Xbox One was actually having more frame rate drops in the video at 720p than the PS4 was having at 900p. On top of that, we're not getting ANY kind of reassurance from Microsoft about the matter, no explanation about why the issue exists or how it can/will be remedied.

    Like I said, it'll be almost impossible to get me to buy from Sony. I don't care for the RPGs and such that Sony offers as much. I love me some Halo, and I've been playing Forza almost exclusively (save for mobile games) for about 2 months now. However, if we cannot see any improvement with the One by the time I'm ready to make a purchase, I think I'd rather just put the $600 (after games and taxes) into upgrading the CPU and GPU in my PC and using that for Titanfall. I'd REALLY just like Microsoft to address the issue. That's their biggest problem, the P.R. department is run by either mutes or idiots.
    Exactly. I'm in the situation where I do have a preorder in for the Xbox One, and I'm struggling about whether or not to keep it. Obviously, I need to decide soon. Thing is neither the Xbox One or the PS4 seem to be so great in terms of performance for a new generation of consoles, relative to expectations. I mean, even the PS4 version of BF4 isn't 1080p. It's only running at 900p. But the Xbox One is in the unenviable position of being the more expensive, and by all appearances, slower console. So either MS is going to have to do a great job marketing it's strengths, or they're going to have to do something about the pricing. Given that it's Microsoft, I'd think the latter is more likely than the former. If it was similar in price, or a little less expensive than the PS4, then being a little slower probably wouldn't be an issue. Or at least now that Sony is charging for online gaming, maybe it's time for MS to make Gold free. With the Xbox One's potential for leveraging off the Windows 8 ecosystem, Xbox Music and Video, Skype, etc. Maybe by removing one barrier to using their other services on the Xbox, they could make them more desirable (and profitable).
    11-01-2013 12:09 PM
  3. BIGPADDY's Avatar
    I think this update in December will boost the graphics for both the PS4 and Xbox One maybe pushing towards 1080p:

    AMD announce Mantle, a direct access graphics API that will debut in Battlefield 4 | PC Gamer
    11-01-2013 12:19 PM
  4. unstoppablekem's Avatar
    Didn't Microsoft change it so the Xbox one has improved performance, and has GDR5?
    sinime likes this.
    11-01-2013 12:44 PM
  5. tk-093's Avatar
    I don't play COD or BF so I don't care. I just want somebody to tell me which version of the next Halo will run better, PS4 or XB1. That's where I will make my choice.
    11-01-2013 01:17 PM
  6. sinime's Avatar
    Didn't Microsoft change it so the Xbox one has improved performance, and has GDR5?
    Yes and no... They bumpped up the CPU and GPU clock speeds (small amount for both), but the memory is still GDR3

    I don't play COD or BF so I don't care. I just want somebody to tell me which version of the next Halo will run better, PS4 or XB1. That's where I will make my choice.
    We'll have to wait and see which runs Halo better ;) I'm guessing the One will be at 720p, 900p or 1080p, while the PS4 will be at 0p
    unstoppablekem likes this.
    11-01-2013 01:26 PM
  7. BIGPADDY's Avatar
    Yes and no... They bumpped up the CPU and GPU clock speeds (small amount for both), but the memory is still GDR3
    That awesome GDR5 RAM is in the awesome PS4! :P
    11-01-2013 01:28 PM
  8. BIGPADDY's Avatar
    I don't play COD or BF so I don't care. I just want somebody to tell me which version of the next Halo will run better, PS4 or XB1. That's where I will make my choice.
    PS4
    11-01-2013 01:29 PM
  9. Coreldan's Avatar
    Not related to CoD, but perhaps to whole resolution thing. I had a RL friend go see the Xbox One today at this expo (I'm going tomorrow, can't wait), he played both Gran Turismo 6 (PS4) and Forza 5 and said Forza was much more impressive in every way. He's a bit older gentleman and certainly not a fanboy of either :P

    But we know Forza is 1080p, so I think that gives us "hope" in terms of this, I don't doubt X1 is capable of 1080 just fine, but in case of CoD they might've just lowered fe. polygon count or some other details. IW apparently wanted to keep this kind of detail cos they found the upscaler so good (somewhat proven by games like Ryse and BF4 as well).
    11-01-2013 01:32 PM
  10. unstoppablekem's Avatar
    That awesome GDR5 RAM is in the awesome PS4! :P
    It's better, but not by that much. And I prefer using a better controller. The ps4's controller stinks, in my opinion.
    sinime likes this.
    11-01-2013 01:37 PM
  11. tk-093's Avatar
    Not that it matters to me anyway (I've been playing consoles with an A & B & X & Y buttons for way too long to learn some symbol button controller) but it'll be interesting to see how the 2nd gen XB1/PS4 games compare when they have more time to be familiar with the console. Hell right now they are making a PC, PS3, PS4, 360 and XB1 version of these games. (Nintendo too, I don't know???) I'd almost bet optomizing the PS4 and XB1 wasn't even as high a priority as the other three.
    11-01-2013 01:41 PM
  12. sinime's Avatar
    That awesome GDR5 RAM is in the awesome PS4! :P
    from what I understand, The high latency of GDR5 is not good for OS/general computing, and the advantages of speed are only noticed in graphics cards... If that's true, GDR5 is double edged sword being used for both OS and graphics at the same time.
    11-01-2013 01:46 PM
  13. Coreldan's Avatar
    from what I understand, The high latency of GDR5 is not good for OS/general computing, and the advantages of speed are only noticed in graphics cards... If that's true, GDR5 is double edged sword being used for both OS and graphics at the same time.
    I'm pretty sure too that there is a very good reason why no PC, be it for high end gaming or anything else, uses GDDR5 as it's main RAM. I'm not saying it's bad for the PS4, but I'm pretty sure there's a downside in there somewhere cos if there wasn't, it would be what the hardcore gamers used in their PCs too. I know the architectures are different with there being less layers between the CPU and the RAM in consoles, but I don't think we've yet seen anything special out of the GDDR5 per se, the difference with graphical performance is more likely down to the more powerful GPU of PS4 rather than the RAM.
    11-01-2013 01:54 PM
  14. marcusasdrubal's Avatar
    I'm pretty sure too that there is a very good reason why no PC, be it for high end gaming or anything else, uses GDDR5 as it's main RAM. I'm not saying it's bad for the PS4, but I'm pretty sure there's a downside in there somewhere cos if there wasn't, it would be what the hardcore gamers used in their PCs too. I know the architectures are different with there being less layers between the CPU and the RAM in consoles, but I don't think we've yet seen anything special out of the GDDR5 per se, the difference with graphical performance is more likely down to the more powerful GPU of PS4 rather than the RAM.
    Main ram not, because most of the cards already has the GDDR5, look the newest alienwares graphics cards. Sony is focusing on games, their 8GB GDDR5 is mostly for graphics. Then look to PC nowadays, GDDR5 is the future, talking about graphics. No way DDR3. But, Microsoft has the 32mb ESRAM, but developers complained that is hard to work in both memories, because the needs are high, they prefer a unified memory like PS4, like Nvidia latest graphics cards, AMDS, and etc.

    That's it. It is up to MS to show that they are wrong and give them the tools to properly use the ESRAM memory. But until that, we gonna see many , but many titles better on PS4. And when Xbox One reach the level to work nicely with the ESRAM, it will look like a PS4...;)

    I ask my friend on US to cancel my pre-order. Sadly right now, I am giving up from Halo and Titanfall. I am going to PS4...
    11-01-2013 02:03 PM
  15. marcusasdrubal's Avatar
    For me the worst is their silence. That's why I canceled the pre-order. If they say that are working to fill the gaps, it would sounds better. But I guess that most of the people doesn't read tech news sites and etc. Then, the will keep on silence, to no affect their launch so much...but as a true gamer...this is hard to accept. Then I canceled...
    11-01-2013 02:09 PM
  16. Great deal's Avatar
    Im getting both - simples i couldn't care less which one is better on launch day - hardware has NOTHING to do with good programming.
    11-01-2013 02:37 PM
  17. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    I think this update in December will boost the graphics for both the PS4 and Xbox One maybe pushing towards 1080p:

    AMD announce Mantle, a direct access graphics API that will debut in Battlefield 4 | PC Gamer
    Except that's related to PCs. From what I've read and what I understand about Mantle, it's an attempt to move PCs closer towards console-level optimization, not an all-new thing that consoles will benefit from, since they are fairly-optimized as it is, relative to PCs. A comment on this that I read (so I can't say it's proven or 100% accurate) was saying that Mantle's an attempt to lessen the overhead/barrier between the hardware and drivers in a PC, which console's don't necessarily have to fight with, though as I type this, I wonder if that's something present on the One because of the multi-OS setup.
    11-01-2013 02:46 PM
  18. Coreldan's Avatar
    Main ram not, because most of the cards already has the GDDR5, look the newest alienwares graphics cards. Sony is focusing on games, their 8GB GDDR5 is mostly for graphics. Then look to PC nowadays, GDDR5 is the future, talking about graphics. No way DDR3. But, Microsoft has the 32mb ESRAM, but developers complained that is hard to work in both memories, because the needs are high, they prefer a unified memory like PS4, like Nvidia latest graphics cards, AMDS, and etc.

    That's it. It is up to MS to show that they are wrong and give them the tools to properly use the ESRAM memory. But until that, we gonna see many , but many titles better on PS4. And when Xbox One reach the level to work nicely with the ESRAM, it will look like a PS4...;)

    I ask my friend on US to cancel my pre-order. Sadly right now, I am giving up from Halo and Titanfall. I am going to PS4...
    Except you seem to forget that when it comes to games and Graphics in general, PC still easily wins hands down and that's without having 8GB of GDDR5. But yeah, I think the highest end GPUs have some 3-4 GB of that too.

    Titanfall will be on PC though, so you won't necessarily miss out on that. I do think you are overreacting though with deciding to switch over to PS4 for this. This situation is really no different than it was this generation with 360 and PS3 and can anyone here claim that 360 would've actually been "worse" than PS3 in the grand scheme of things?
    11-01-2013 04:27 PM
  19. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    The "GDDR5 is the future" thing is a joke, because it's the past as well. My Radeon 5850, which I got in 2009, has GDDR5 memory in it (though only 1 GB). Also, Alienware doesn't make graphics cards, so not really sure what to take away from that comment.

    I agree, it's ultimately silly to switch platforms over this, but I think it's certainly something to reconsider platforms over, in the realm of holding off until you learn more. If I had planned to get an Xbox One at launch, I would be prepping it for eBay and sitting back on this stuff. I wouldn't switch to a PS4 over this right now, but if it's a problem in 6 months, then I would consider giving up on the short-term idea of a console and going PC for a while.
    11-01-2013 04:53 PM
  20. marcusasdrubal's Avatar
    ALIENWARE computers use nvidia and amd cards with GDDR5...that what I mean....What is better than GDDR5 right now? DDR3 that my old 2002 pc got?


    Wake up.,...GDDR5 is by far the best right now....I got 500 bucks, to spend on videogame this month. I will not wait 6 months and see if Xbox One can reach PS4. Then is more confortable to me buy a PS4. Sounds much better.
    11-01-2013 05:33 PM
  21. MobileVortex's Avatar
    I have to stop reading this forum... i think im getting dumber :S
    azcruz, Great deal and aaa6112 like this.
    11-01-2013 05:44 PM
  22. Coreldan's Avatar
    ALIENWARE computers use nvidia and amd cards with GDDR5...that what I mean....What is better than GDDR5 right now? DDR3 that my old 2002 pc got?


    Wake up.,...GDDR5 is by far the best right now....I got 500 bucks, to spend on videogame this month. I will not wait 6 months and see if Xbox One can reach PS4. Then is more confortable to me buy a PS4. Sounds much better.
    You are comparing apples to oranges. PS4s performance gain most likely has fairly little to do with the GDDR5 vs. DDR3 right now anyways. While it plays a part, it's most likely just the more powerful GPU. While this doesn't change anything for you, but you obviously don't really understand what you are talking about when it comes to RAM.
    11-01-2013 05:49 PM
  23. marcusasdrubal's Avatar
    You are comparing apples to oranges. PS4s performance gain most likely has fairly little to do with the GDDR5 vs. DDR3 right now anyways. While it plays a part, it's most likely just the more powerful GPU. While this doesn't change anything for you, but you obviously don't really understand what you are talking about when it comes to RAM.
    Guess you are the head manager that even care to answer about the gaps of COD and BF4. Guess you the premium access on xbox one and ps4 and you could use your wonderfull applications to say X or Y, better than all the other magazines. Fairly Little? More than 100gigaflops of bandwitch is little? lol. I guess what is huge for you...better not guessing...maybe...I guess you don't know that GDDR5 has directly related to the draw on your tv. Do you know that COD in order to keep around 60fps they upscaled it? What does it mean? That the processor and gpu that are close to other, could not render it on 1080p. Why, because the low speed memory, tha receives. Do you know that on PS4 GDDR5 is a unity memory and also render part of the system and GPU? Maybe not. You can't conceive unity memory and RAM management working in one way. You are just the ambassador of the cheap talk...
    11-01-2013 07:13 PM
  24. marcusasdrubal's Avatar
    Here for the Ambassador of the Cheap Talk:

    . "Firstly, the notion of operating between two memory pools for render targets is an additional pain that is not an issue on PlayStation 4's unified 8GB of GDDR5. Secondly - and perhaps most importantly - the most common compliant we hear is that developers really want more than 32MB for their high-bandwidth graphics work.

    Talking to the Microsoft tech staff, we attempted to tackle the issue of the 32MB ESRAM limit by suggesting a 1080p render target scenario that wasn't that outrageous for a modern game engine, but would bust through the memory ceiling very easily. Microsoft countered by suggesting that those targets could be split between DDR3 and ESRAM, and pushed its own, more memory-efficient, compressed render target formats - similar to the ones utilised on Xbox 360 to great success."

    Xbox One Resolutiongate: the 720p fallout • Articles • Eurogamer.net
    11-01-2013 07:17 PM
  25. xboxonthego3's Avatar
    I'm not concerned about this issue. I think overtime they will figure out a way to develop games better to get to 1080p. And I honestly don't mind 720p myself. And it is being up scaled to 1080p. The current generation only got better overtime. Why can't the next generation? I'm more interested on the experience and enjoyment of game. Which in my opinion is what games should be about. Not some spec vs spec war. And again buy what works best for you.
    BIGPADDY likes this.
    11-01-2013 09:05 PM
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