12-09-2013 09:00 PM
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  1. michail71's Avatar
    Wow, that's crazy, no 720p on the TV and no 1080i on the xbox one. HDMI was/is a pain enough on the xbox 360. I figured they'd have made it a little less fussy on the new console.

    I purchased a used 62 inch DLP set for $100 off of craigslist. It's an older set but it does 1080p and 3D.
    11-25-2013 01:13 PM
  2. link68759's Avatar
    I can get a scaller to drop 1080p to 1080i, that would work in this case but, in a cost between $300-400 for a good one. That is a little much in my eyes. It should be doable in software with out any overhead....I guess time will tell...
    You can get an upscaler for like $30 on amazon, and although I've only ever used mine from 480p to 1080p (with the Wii), $30 may be cheap but it's a huge noticeable improvement.

    To scale to 1080i is oddly specific and no one in their right mind would ever want to do that normally, so you may have trouble finding a product that does this. And you do not want to buy "a good one" for $400 if your end goal is to decrease the output quality! You probably can find an hdmi to component adapter, then an upscaler that supports 1080i.

    My advice is to research your next TV better. For example, I have an older samsung plasma tv, and it can accept *any* input. TV only "supports" 720p, but I can pump 1600x1200 into it (or higher!) from my PC and it will display the image with no fuss. (I'm aware there are only 1280x720 pixels in the TV, but higher resolutions give me more space on the PC desktop to work with, and you can only notice the distortion when reading text).
    11-25-2013 01:48 PM
  3. Polychrome's Avatar
    Must be a CRT? Lots of old CRTs only support 480p and 1080i (the scan rate of 480p and 1080i is almost the same. 720p is much higher).
    I have a CRT in the garage, and it supported both 720p AND 1080i. I'd always pick the 1080i for the better resolution though. (Framerate doesn't bug me quite as much as it bugs others.)

    Though I'm honestly wondering how far 4k will realistically go. People are only going to be so willing to re-buy all their movies/TV over and over again. I only took the Blu-ray jump because of 3D. Most of the re-purchased movies are re-rendered animated films. If animated movies got to the point where they could render in real-time on a computer, like a flash animation, I could see it being worth it. But for now, 4k to me is merely an annoyance aimed at football fans who don't really know the difference and will probably watch stretched SD broadcasts without even realizing it.
    11-25-2013 03:12 PM
  4. link68759's Avatar
    I have a CRT in the garage, and it supported both 720p AND 1080i. I'd always pick the 1080i for the better resolution though. (Framerate doesn't bug me quite as much as it bugs others.)

    Though I'm honestly wondering how far 4k will realistically go. People are only going to be so willing to re-buy all their movies/TV over and over again. I only took the Blu-ray jump because of 3D. Most of the re-purchased movies are re-rendered animated films. If animated movies got to the point where they could render in real-time on a computer, like a flash animation, I could see it being worth it. But for now, 4k to me is merely an annoyance aimed at football fans who don't really know the difference and will probably watch stretched SD broadcasts without even realizing it.





    -Uses 1080i over 720p
    -Looks down on "football fans" for watching stretched SD.

    You don't have to angle your head down very far to look down on them I reckon :P



    Sent from my RM-824_nam_att_101 using Tapatalk
    11-25-2013 03:19 PM
  5. DavidinCT's Avatar
    You can get an upscaler for like $30 on amazon, and although I've only ever used mine from 480p to 1080p (with the Wii), $30 may be cheap but it's a huge noticeable improvement.

    To scale to 1080i is oddly specific and no one in their right mind would ever want to do that normally, so you may have trouble finding a product that does this. And you do not want to buy "a good one" for $400 if your end goal is to decrease the output quality! You probably can find an hdmi to component adapter, then an upscaler that supports 1080i.

    My advice is to research your next TV better. For example, I have an older samsung plasma tv, and it can accept *any* input. TV only "supports" 720p, but I can pump 1600x1200 into it (or higher!) from my PC and it will display the image with no fuss. (I'm aware there are only 1280x720 pixels in the TV, but higher resolutions give me more space on the PC desktop to work with, and you can only notice the distortion when reading text).
    I didn't want a upscaler, as that would take 480p and bost it up to 1080i, what I want to do, is convert 1080p to 1080i... So, down scaling is what I needed here

    Found this...

    Atlona AV Distribution Solutions for Commercial and Residential Applications

    Picked it up a used one for almost nothing, as these things go for close to $400. I guess we'll see how well it works when it gets here. My only wonder if it adds lag, if that is the case, I might get it to work but, wont be able to use it because of the lag...

    To answer the question, it's a older RPG, 9" guns... 65". It works great and has an awsome picture but, it sucks that I need to have something like this just to use a console...

    Know what would really suck ? If Microsoft a week from now enables 1080i mode after buying this device...but, it's my luck so I am sure it will happen...

    I have a CRT in the garage, and it supported both 720p AND 1080i. I'd always pick the 1080i for the better resolution though. (Framerate doesn't bug me quite as much as it bugs others.)

    Though I'm honestly wondering how far 4k will realistically go. People are only going to be so willing to re-buy all their movies/TV over and over again. I only took the Blu-ray jump because of 3D. Most of the re-purchased movies are re-rendered animated films. If animated movies got to the point where they could render in real-time on a computer, like a flash animation, I could see it being worth it. But for now, 4k to me is merely an annoyance aimed at football fans who don't really know the difference and will probably watch stretched SD broadcasts without even realizing it.
    Yep, the same old question..... People had VHS, and moved to Laserdisk, then moved to DVD, now Blu-ray... It happens in every market, with every type of device, dam think about the music market, remember cassettes ? How about 8-Track ? Do you rember installing Microsoft office from floppy disc ? Yep 43 discs... Same old stuff.

    The thing about 4K, it will be a Blu-ray player, so you will upgrade your blu-ray player, it will play blu-ray and 4K, so, your blu-ray/DVD will play back fine but, if you want the newer 4K, then you buy a new disk...

    It's happens every 20 years in this market for a full change to a new format, a few people complain but, they accept it for a better quailty...
    Last edited by DavidinCT; 11-25-2013 at 03:41 PM.
    11-25-2013 03:22 PM
  6. link68759's Avatar
    I would have suggested setting the Xbox to 720p then using an upscale to get 1080i, as that likely could be done cheap. But if you got that box for under 70USD then that works too.

    Sent from my RM-824_nam_att_101 using Tapatalk
    11-25-2013 03:27 PM
  7. DavidinCT's Avatar
    I would have suggested setting the Xbox to 720p then using an upscale to get 1080i, as that likely could be done cheap. But if you got that box for under 70USD then that works too.

    Sent from my RM-824_nam_att_101 using Tapatalk
    Yep, just a little under with shipping :)

    I would think that 1080p to 1080i would keep most of the quailty and the Xbox one will see it as a 1080p tv... so as long as there is no LAG, it should all work fine... Again it's a pain that I had to do this....Think about it, it could of been another Xbox one game I could of gotten <g>
    11-25-2013 03:48 PM
  8. radmanvr's Avatar
    Yeah it sucks that you have to go through all of this but hey, you should have gotten the 4K TV.
    DavidinCT likes this.
    11-25-2013 03:53 PM
  9. DavidinCT's Avatar
    Yeah it sucks that you have to go through all of this but hey, you should have gotten the 4K TV.
    I will....Mark my words, I will...
    11-25-2013 04:01 PM
  10. Polychrome's Avatar
    -Uses 1080i over 720p
    -Looks down on "football fans" for watching stretched SD.

    You don't have to angle your head down very far to look down on them I reckon :P
    Think what you like. I've seen a few too many "HD" TVs displaying virtually nothing but encoding artifacts while the oblivious users jumped and cheered. The tool is only as good as the user. While we know our way around these, most people who walk into the electronics section of a store see nothing but "big" or "bigger". Salesmen impress them with big, fancy numbers and it goes way over their heads.

    For the nerdy among us, it's a good thing. A game rendering in 4k would be pretty darn sweet. But for people just watching movies it seems like overkill. Sheesh, all the poster-boys of 3D movies were upconverted, including the animated movies, and that was for their big screen releases. I doubt anybody noticed.

    It's happens every 20 years in this market for a full change to a new format, a few people complain but, they accept it for a better quailty...
    VHS lasted 20 years, true. Other formats have died very quickly. Including LD, a proprietary "video record" format by RCA, etc. DVD is slowly dying.

    I think eventually Blu-ray will be overtaken by digital downloads, and at some point you'll buy it once and not worry about it again. That's simply the way things are going, and companies will eventually have to differentiate purchases by the extra content. Blu-ray always struck me as a last ditch effort to hang onto physical media, and it was kind of an unnecessary step IMO.
    Last edited by Polychrome; 11-25-2013 at 05:14 PM.
    11-25-2013 04:42 PM
  11. link68759's Avatar
    Think what you like. I've seen a few too many "HD" TVs displaying virtually nothing but encoding artifacts while the oblivious users jumped and cheered. The tool is only as good as the user. While we know our way around these, most people who walk into the electronics section of a store see nothing but "big" or "bigger". Salesmen impress them with big, fancy numbers and it goes way over their heads.

    For the nerdy among us, it's a good thing. A game rendering in 4k would be pretty darn sweet. But for people just watching movies it seems like overkill. Sheesh, all the poster-boys of 3D movies were upconverted, including the animated movies, and that was for their big screen releases. I doubt anybody noticed.



    Just pointing out an incongruence in your point of view. You look down on others for not noticing stretching and quality, others can look down on you for not noticing the butchering effects of interlacing. Really what it boils down to is- ignorance is bliss. The more we as nerds/geeks learn, the more money and tweaking it takes for us to enjoy something. Meanwhile people watching SD football are just enjoying the game; they don't watch tv like we do- they watch what's *on* the tv. I envy people like that. As an audiophile I can hardly listen to music without lugging around my gear.

    I mean, people back in the day, listening to sports via radio... I bet the guy who bought a new shiny radio looked down on everyone else because their radios had slightly more static than his. In 10 years the difference between SD and "HD" video will be as petty as the difference between an old radio that has a slightly clearer signal than an older radio.
    Gergolos likes this.
    11-25-2013 05:22 PM
  12. Polychrome's Avatar
    You look down on others for not noticing stretching and quality, others can look down on you for not noticing the butchering effects of interlacing.
    That's like looking at a little kid's clumsy attempt at pottery and arguing that all ceramics are worthless and ugly.

    Interlacing is something that was invented to add smoothness and resolution. When done correctly it does just that. When done improperly it gives the "butchered" effect you mentioned. I have *never* seen it show on video games on the 360 (the system was smart enough to use it properly), but it will show in an improperly encoded video.

    Interlacing is still pretty widely used. Some 3DTVs use it with passive frames to give the 3D image. You're not going to notice unless you have your nose to the screen.
    11-25-2013 05:51 PM
  13. Gergolos's Avatar
    I don't get it... Maybe I'm too tired or something, but you mentioned that they said the xbox will support 720p or higher. And as far as I got it right from your comments you think that 1080i is "higher" than 720p. Which is not the case... (480p<1080i<720p<1080p)...but because you saying that you have an "educated look" you know that (the 1080i<720p thing) for sure. So, as I already said, I am not quite sure why you are surprised. I mean... Of course it would be nice for the new xbox to support 1080i... but the quality is not really "next gen" like so I get it why MS did not have that support as high prio.. You said at one point that 480p is not accaptable, yet you want 1080i (which is actually 540p)...soooo.... I really don't get it...

    I really hope you somehow can enjoy the xbox though! Let us hope ms can help

    edit: just to make it clear: I know that "on paper" 1080i has more detail. I'm not talking about that... I'm talking about real world use.
    11-25-2013 06:04 PM
  14. EndoFury's Avatar
    Sigh....so many people don't know what they're talking about but act like they do. 1080i is in fact a higher resolution than 720p. To me, I'd define that as "better". Interlacing doesn't create artifacts, DEINTERLACING does. HDCRT's don't need to deinterlace like digital displays (LCD, Plasma, DLP) do, so essentially 1080i is superior to 720p in all cases on them except when content exceeds 30 frames per second. Few games are 60fps and even then, they still produce 60 unique fields per second which still allows you to perceive a higher framerate than 30fps, but technically they're not 60 true frames, but rather, 60 fields/30 frames. No human alive can see any negative butchering of the image on an analog display due to interlacing because black on a CRT is truly the absence of light, unlike on a digital display where it's a pixel displaying black.

    And enough with the 540p garbage. That's only true in terms of BANDWIDTH, not resolution. So yeah, a broadcast stream of 1080i uses less bandwidth than 720p, but the resolution is over 2x higher!

    It's absolutely shameful that the Xbone doesn't support 1080i. It's an NTSC standard for good reason.
    DavidinCT likes this.
    11-26-2013 01:46 PM
  15. DavidinCT's Avatar
    I think eventually Blu-ray will be overtaken by digital downloads, and at some point you'll buy it once and not worry about it again. That's simply the way things are going, and companies will eventually have to differentiate purchases by the extra content. Blu-ray always struck me as a last ditch effort to hang onto physical media, and it was kind of an unnecessary step IMO.
    I would not count on it. Sure if you want DVD quality or low bandwith 1080p sure. When you rip a blu-ray it's around 29gb, No one has the bandwith to stream a movie like that. OR even downloading it on a good connection would take over an hour to download (and I bet most people it would take hours, like the discussion of downloading a Xbox one game to play right away).

    I guess it really comes down to what is acceptable for people for quality of the video. Sure you can download a 10gb rip of a movie and it looks great but, when you talk off a blu-ray disk, your getting uncompressed video (or very low compression) and full bandwith 10.1 digital audio. Streaming sources could not even compete with this.

    I did something to compare quality, yea, on my 1080i RPG tv. I downloaded a 10gb rip of Avatar (a very well done movie with video and audio), and I picked up the Blu-ray disc. Even on my set and my older 5.1 setup, the blu-ray detail was so much better and the audio was as well. It was very noticeable.

    As people have accepted MP3's for most of their music but, if you know about audio, Nothing can beat the quality of a well Done (Digital to Digital) CD recording or even a LP in some cases. It's all about what people will accept for quality. For me, I will take the blu-ray over the ultra compressed versions..

    Digital HD videos have a long way to go before they are accepted for everyone...
    11-27-2013 12:01 PM
  16. Flagz's Avatar
    Just pointing out an incongruence in your point of view. You look down on others for not noticing stretching and quality, others can look down on you for not noticing the butchering effects of interlacing. Really what it boils down to is- ignorance is bliss. The more we as nerds/geeks learn, the more money and tweaking it takes for us to enjoy something. Meanwhile people watching SD football are just enjoying the game; they don't watch tv like we do- they watch what's *on* the tv. I envy people like that. As an audiophile I can hardly listen to music without lugging around my gear.

    I mean, people back in the day, listening to sports via radio... I bet the guy who bought a new shiny radio looked down on everyone else because their radios had slightly more static than his. In 10 years the difference between SD and "HD" video will be as petty as the difference between an old radio that has a slightly clearer signal than an older radio.
    This is exactly what it comes to. I'm a geek at its finest, audiophile, computer tech, network tech, help create music videos and short films for artist in my area, and go to 1 or 2 MLG events per year. I envy the people who do these things for fun, every song that I listen to I try and find flaws or admire how well it was put together. Every show I watch on any TV, I look for the visual and audio quality, every songs I breakdown to see if it was mix/mastered and crafted correctly, every time I browse the interwebs at a business and friends house I speed test, and every game I play I find its flaws for competitive play.

    It honestly sucks, I do enjoy the Game, and the Show and the Songs, but it's not the same as when I was in my early teens and everything just seemed amazing. Seems like my senses back then was heightened just to enjoy what I now breakdown. Its sucks, a lot. I wish I can just enjoy as the average user does, but my inner geek only wants THE BEST.
    tk-093 and DavidinCT like this.
    11-27-2013 03:01 PM
  17. Polychrome's Avatar
    I would not count on it. Sure if you want DVD quality or low bandwith 1080p sure. When you rip a blu-ray it's around 29gb, No one has the bandwith to stream a movie like that.
    Oh, believe me they do. I've dealt with the call even. An LTE connection will *definitely* stream that fast, so fast they'll use their 30 gig cellular plan (and more!) on that 2 hour movie. I've had people working here claim to hit 70Mbps, and even working in a crowded call center I easily hit 30.

    The technology is there. Verizon's spent crazy money beefing up landline and roaming providers alike all over the US for all this LTE business, and a lot of the landline providers are getting faster as a result. The cable and DSL companies are getting faster, and it *is* noticable. Now all we need is for the prices to come down because with super fast connections come media providers that want to take them up. Whether this is all a good thing or a bad thing, I'll leave that to you!

    It's coming. Blu-ray is and always has been a last ditch effort to prevent it. I repeat, it's coming.
    11-27-2013 07:38 PM
  18. DavidinCT's Avatar
    I didn't want a upscaler, as that would take 480p and bost it up to 1080i, what I want to do, is convert 1080p to 1080i... So, down scaling is what I needed here

    Found this...

    Atlona AV Distribution Solutions for Commercial and Residential Applications

    Picked it up a used one for almost nothing, as these things go for close to $400. I guess we'll see how well it works when it gets here. My only wonder if it adds lag, if that is the case, I might get it to work but, wont be able to use it because of the lag...

    To answer the question, it's a older RPG, 9" guns... 65". It works great and has an awsome picture but, it sucks that I need to have something like this just to use a console...

    Know what would really suck ? If Microsoft a week from now enables 1080i mode after buying this device...but, it's my luck so I am sure it will happen...


    ...
    If anyone has run into the same boat as me, I just wanted to follow up after FINALLY getting a chance to play with this (I was away for the Holiday).

    So in my setup Xbox one >Scaler to take 1080p down to 1080i> to HDFURY3 (takes HDMI with HDCP and converts to component video)> TV

    This works flawlessly, No lag that I have noticed. I am able to run my Xbox one at 1080i with no problem. I have tested Forza and COD ghosts multiplayer with no problems.

    The ONLY flaw this this method is, the costs, if you were to get BOTH of these devices new at full price, it would cost you around $650, you might as well buy a new TV...(trust me, I am no where near that price out of pocket)

    It does work and work great, another band-aid till spring time when I can jump for a 4K tv...
    11-30-2013 09:00 PM
  19. analogeyes's Avatar
    For what it worth, i have a pioneer PDP 503 HDE plasma it's a 55inch plasma that is 11 years old, the max supported HDTV resolution is 1080i, i bought a 3Dfury a couple of years ago to add 3D to this TV (btw, the 3D effect with Monster Vision glasses is terrific!), now that i have a Xbox One and no 1080i output to feed my old Plasma (old but still better than any sub 2K$ today TV), i went to the hdfury website and flashed my 3Dfury with their scaler firmware. I'm now able to send 480p/720p/1080p out from the Xbox one and get 1080i out from the HDfury and it display perfectly well on screen! However, it's an expensive solution but my display really worth it, so if you have a high quality display, you might consider this.
    12-04-2013 11:49 AM
  20. DavidinCT's Avatar
    For what it worth, i have a pioneer PDP 503 HDE plasma it's a 55inch plasma that is 11 years old, the max supported HDTV resolution is 1080i, i bought a 3Dfury a couple of years ago to add 3D to this TV (btw, the 3D effect with Monster Vision glasses is terrific!), now that i have a Xbox One and no 1080i output to feed my old Plasma (old but still better than any sub 2K$ today TV), i went to the hdfury website and flashed my 3Dfury with their scaler firmware. I'm now able to send 480p/720p/1080p out from the Xbox one and get 1080i out from the HDfury and it display perfectly well on screen! However, it's an expensive solution but my display really worth it, so if you have a high quality display, you might consider this.
    Yea, I did read that, the HDfury4 or 3Dfury (same thing) will do both of them (HDMI to component with HDCP AND scaler), the problem is, New this device is $400, and IF YOU ARE LUCKY, you might find one used on ebay(ebay shuts these things down, so if you find one buy it) for around $200-300.

    Yep, not a cheap thing that Microsoft should of included in the box (1080i support)

    At least it DOES work in both ways and I have not noticed ANY LAG at all so far. So, if you are in the need, this is one of the options you can go (but, if your on a sub 50" tv, it might be beter with all the deals now just to replace it with a mid line model). You can get a 50" 4K tv now for $450-550 or so on Amazon...
    12-04-2013 03:23 PM
  21. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    You can get a 50" 4K tv now for $450-550 or so on Amazon...
    Then why are you waiting until next year to get one, brand preference?
    12-04-2013 03:33 PM
  22. ALpHa.Q.RoUgH's Avatar
    Yea, I did read that, the HDfury4 or 3Dfury (same thing) will do both of them (HDMI to component with HDCP AND scaler), the problem is, New this device is $400, and IF YOU ARE LUCKY, you might find one used on ebay(ebay shuts these things down, so if you find one buy it) for around $200-300.

    Yep, not a cheap thing that Microsoft should of included in the box (1080i support)

    At least it DOES work in both ways and I have not noticed ANY LAG at all so far. So, if you are in the need, this is one of the options you can go (but, if your on a sub 50" tv, it might be beter with all the deals now just to replace it with a mid line model). You can get a 50" 4K tv now for $450-550 or so on Amazon...
    And I thought the 4K TV I saw at Costco for $1500 was a deal.
    12-04-2013 03:37 PM
  23. DavidinCT's Avatar
    Then why are you waiting until next year to get one, brand preference?
    The TV I have is a 65", I dont want to go smaller and it's not in the budget right now to spend $1500+ on a TV right now. Personally, I want the Panasonic 65" 4K tv, it's really out there in price right now. Spring time is when I can start really looking AND there will be more models are a lower price.

    The $500ish 50" 4K tv got a fair review but, it's from a company I never heard about before.

    Amazon.com: Seiki Digital SE50UY04 50-Inch 4K UHD 120Hz LED HDTV: Electronics


    The price went up it was $550 earler today but, Still it's a Seiki brand. If I was geting one, I am going to hold on to it for a while so, I am going to hold out to get the one I really want.

    If you want one of these TVs, keep an eye on the deal sites, as even Sears had it for $579.99 at one point...I think Wallyworld carries it too...
    12-04-2013 03:50 PM
  24. Free Webapps's Avatar
    In gaming, 720p would be vastly better to 1080i as interlaced is going to introduce a lot of blur to fast paced scenes. Most likely why MS didn't bother supporting it.

    I'd suggest just setting your Xbox to 720p and enjoy until you get a newer TV.

    Edit: Oh, sorry. Just saw your TV doesn't support 720p either. Weird.
    TV's the only support 480i/p and 1080i were tvs that were out pre-hdmi and had component, s-video and composite connections. If I'm not mistaken, 720p was introduced around the time HDMI came about. Around that time of 1080i tvs, Mistubishi was at the top if not the leader in HD Tube projected tvs. The TVs that supported 720p were DLP and might have had HDMI. When Plasma and LCD TVs came into play, component connections were being replaced by hdmi and then tvs started losing all the use full features like PIP and what not.

    I speak from 1st hand experience. Parents had 60in Mitsu in 97/98 (just coax, composite and s-video), I got 60in 480i/p 1080i Mitsu in 00/01 (component, composite, coax & s-video), bro-in-law got 65in 720p/1080i Mitsu in 04/05 (component, composite, coax & s-video), brother go 65in 480i/p 720p 1080i/p Mitsu DLP in 08/09 (coax, hdmi and composite), parents got 72in 1080p Mitsu in 2010/2011(coax, hdmi and composite).
    12-05-2013 07:14 AM
  25. Free Webapps's Avatar
    That sucks, but 1080i is literally the worst thing to can play games on. I would imaging Forza is not even playable in 1080i.
    How do you figure that. A high quality display at 1080i is perfect for Forza4 on xbox 360... My current tv is ancient by some peoples means but pushed excellent quality through my component cables without any quality hick-ups. I then got a HDFury3 box to utilize the hdmi quality from my xbox 360 and it did improve the sharpness a bit more and still no video issues. All this on a 1080i HD tubed projection Mitsu TV. Sure 1080p is better but 1080i on the right tv & setup can be just as perfect.
    12-05-2013 07:46 AM
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