1. coip's Avatar
    I got an Xbox One on launch day--the first system I've owned since 1999 (Sega Dreamcast, baby!)--because I loved how it was an all-in-one entertainment system: games, movies, music, TV, Skype, etc., all beautifully navigated via voice controls. I've been very impressed with the system, especially the ease of which I can switch between apps. I also particularly love the live TV integration, which is very useful for me since I don't have a cable subscription (so, getting the OneGuide for free over-the-air television is superb).

    That said, I am curious why Microsoft doesn't do even more with Xbox One. Specifically, I think they should implement DVR functions akin to Tivo. The Game DVR already has shown us that the Xbox One can be a DVR. Microsoft's years of experience with Windows Media Center shows that they know how to do TV DVR as well. If they implemented these features into Xbox One and allowed us to plug in external hard drives (as well as save directly to the Xbox's internal hard drive) to record live TV using the OneGuide, I believe that the Xbox One would sell even better.

    I know a ton of people who have Tivo, but until today, I didn't know how much they paid to get that service. The answer: a lot. Not only does it cost $150 for the cheapest Tivo box, you can't even use it unless you pay Tivo a subscription fee which ranges from $15 (on contract) to $20 (off contract) per month for service, which is way more expensive than the $5 per month it costs for Xbox Live Gold (but which you can easily find for $3-$4 per month online). Or, you could pay $500 for a lifetime contract and not pay the monthly Tivo fee.

    The Xbox One at $500 for the system plus only $5 per month for Gold to get a Tivo-esque DVR function on your Xbox One, coupled with all of the other benefits of Xbox One and Xbox Live Gold--Skype, IE, SkyDrive, video streaming apps (Netflix, Hulu, Xbox Video, etc.), online gaming, etc.--would make the Xbox One an absolute steal to the average consumer. Why don't they do something like this?
    01-13-2014 03:01 AM
  2. Rhody#WP's Avatar
    TiVo has become a niche product for people who do not have cable/satellite/IPTV. Anybody who has modern, HD TV service uses a set-top box that can record 4-6 programs at the same time. The Xbox One simply cannot do that. The Xbox One would have to have multiple integrated tuners to compete with that functionality.

    Also, the future is in the cloud. DVRs will one day be obsolete. Even today, Aereo allows users to record programs and store them in the cloud. Other TV services allow subscribers to access content in the cloud, not to mention Hulu, Netflix, etc. Microsoft appears to be distancing themselves from local content. They want you to stream everything. I suspect that Microsoft has been tweaking features in Xbox Music and Xbox Video to make it inconvenient to play local content.

    That being said, the Xbox One still might become a dominant product in the television market. If you can use the Xbox One and your TV subscription to stream any television content (e.g., via a Verizon FiOS or AT&T Uverse app), watch live TV through HDMI pass-through, and seamlessly switch to games, Skype, Web, etc., then the Xbox One will dominate the living room.
    Laura Knotek and maclancer like this.
    01-13-2014 09:03 AM
  3. coip's Avatar
    TiVo has become a niche product for people who do not have cable/satellite/IPTV. Anybody who has modern, HD TV service uses a set-top box that can record 4-6 programs at the same time. The Xbox One simply cannot do that. The Xbox One would have to have multiple integrated tuners to compete with that functionality.

    Also, the future is in the cloud. DVRs will one day be obsolete. Even today, Aereo allows users to record programs and store them in the cloud. Other TV services allow subscribers to access content in the cloud, not to mention Hulu, Netflix, etc. Microsoft appears to be distancing themselves from local content. They want you to stream everything. I suspect that Microsoft has been tweaking features in Xbox Music and Xbox Video to make it inconvenient to play local content.

    That being said, the Xbox One still might become a dominant product in the television market. If you can use the Xbox One and your TV subscription to stream any television content (e.g., via a Verizon FiOS or AT&T Uverse app), watch live TV through HDMI pass-through, and seamlessly switch to games, Skype, Web, etc., then the Xbox One will dominate the living room.
    The Xbox One's TV features already require the use of a set-top box, so if that is already being used then the Xbox One should be able to implement DVR features for TV, no? Perhaps not "multiple shows at a time", but even just one at a time would be a nice feature.

    If the future is the cloud then Microsoft could nicely integrate their Tivo-esque DVR functions with SkyDrive. Sure, streaming is getting ever more popular, but people still want to be able to pull up content and watch it at will. I doubt people would view a cloud-based system much differently than a DVR. They just see the outcome: I recorded a show and I can watch it later. If Microsoft really only wants digital content, they are shooting themselves in the foot. Digital isn't on par, price-wise, with physical. Why would I rent a movie from Xbox Video for $4.99-5.99 when I can walk across the street to Redbox and get it for $1.20?

    I think they should push both the digital and the local. If you want to own the living room, then provide the most options. Truly integrate it all into One. And I think making the Xbox One Tivo-esque, if it is possible, would really help sales boom.
    01-13-2014 10:15 PM
  4. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Not likely to happen. First, there needs to be a source of input. If you've got a set-top box doing the input already, you have a DVR already (and it's likely not TiVo), so what's the purpose of the Xbox there? The only way this would work is if:

    A. Microsoft increased the HDD size of the Xbox One to 2 TB (to accommodate 30-GB games and HD shows that can be multiple GB in size)
    B. Cable companies sold a DVR subscription to Xbox LIVE users, because they're not going to give up $10-20/month to the Xbox One for nothing (and Microsoft's not going to eat those bills for the consumers without raising the Xbox LIVE costs for everyone)

    The only other possibility is a specialized Xbox One, dubbed the "TV Edition" or something, where they included a multi-channel DVR tuner card, where you just plug the cable line into the console (still need that bigger HDD). I mean, I agree that TiVo is pretty niche now, given that most just rent a DVR from cable/satellite companies. It really only works if the price stays about the same for cable companies, but the extra set-top box is discarded, in favor of letting the Xbox One handle it.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    01-13-2014 11:32 PM
  5. coip's Avatar
    Not likely to happen. First, there needs to be a source of input. If you've got a set-top box doing the input already, you have a DVR already (and it's likely not TiVo), so what's the purpose of the Xbox there? The only way this would work is if:

    A. Microsoft increased the HDD size of the Xbox One to 2 TB (to accommodate 30-GB games and HD shows that can be multiple GB in size)
    B. Cable companies sold a DVR subscription to Xbox LIVE users, because they're not going to give up $10-20/month to the Xbox One for nothing (and Microsoft's not going to eat those bills for the consumers without raising the Xbox LIVE costs for everyone)

    The only other possibility is a specialized Xbox One, dubbed the "TV Edition" or something, where they included a multi-channel DVR tuner card, where you just plug the cable line into the console (still need that bigger HDD). I mean, I agree that TiVo is pretty niche now, given that most just rent a DVR from cable/satellite companies. It really only works if the price stays about the same for cable companies, but the extra set-top box is discarded, in favor of letting the Xbox One handle it.
    I have a set-top box with a DVR that I cannot access from Xbox One. Meaning, if I want to use the live TV features of Xbox One (which I do), then I can't use the DVR function (which is rubbish) unless I switch back to the set-top box UI. That's cumbersome and defeats the purpose of Microsoft's One vision. They should update the Xbox One OS with Windows Media Center-esque capabilities for me to have DVR function natively from the TV app / OneGuide in Xbox One.

    A. Or they could simply enable external HDD support via USB. Or, just use the 500GB option, which is more than enough for many users who just want to record a few shows at a time and then delete them.
    B. I don't have cable TV; I watch free over-the-air digital broadcast TV on Xbox One. The cable companies don't get any money from me, and they wouldn't be losing any money if Microsoft implemented DVR features into Xbox One.

    It would've been nice had the Xbox One had a multi-channel DVR tuner card built-in, but that isn't really feasible given the extra costs it would add on, plus confusing costumers with multiple system models. Instead, it would be better if they simply updated the OS to access the DVR set-top boxes people are already using. Or, better yet, made it so that people could use USB DVR tuners (like those used by people who watch TV via Windows Media Center on their PCs), which could easily plug into the Xbox One. That way no extra set-top boxes would be needed to watch and record free OTA TV on the Xbox One. This would also reduce latency and improve picture quality since the signal doesn't have to run through an extra device.
    01-14-2014 02:24 AM
  6. Rhody#WP's Avatar
    I have a set-top box with a DVR that I cannot access from Xbox One. Meaning, if I want to use the live TV features of Xbox One (which I do), then I can't use the DVR function (which is rubbish) unless I switch back to the set-top box UI. That's cumbersome and defeats the purpose of Microsoft's One vision. They should update the Xbox One OS with Windows Media Center-esque capabilities for me to have DVR function natively from the TV app / OneGuide in Xbox One.

    A. Or they could simply enable external HDD support via USB. Or, just use the 500GB option, which is more than enough for many users who just want to record a few shows at a time and then delete them.
    B. I don't have cable TV; I watch free over-the-air digital broadcast TV on Xbox One. The cable companies don't get any money from me, and they wouldn't be losing any money if Microsoft implemented DVR features into Xbox One.

    It would've been nice had the Xbox One had a multi-channel DVR tuner card built-in, but that isn't really feasible given the extra costs it would add on, plus confusing costumers with multiple system models. Instead, it would be better if they simply updated the OS to access the DVR set-top boxes people are already using. Or, better yet, made it so that people could use USB DVR tuners (like those used by people who watch TV via Windows Media Center on their PCs), which could easily plug into the Xbox One. That way no extra set-top boxes would be needed to watch and record free OTA TV on the Xbox One. This would also reduce latency and improve picture quality since the signal doesn't have to run through an extra device.
    You are correct that there is an opportunity to attract a certain group of consumers, which is the cord-cutters. After all, people who do not have cable or satellite because they are luddites, well, those people are not going to buy an Xbox One. However, the cord-cutters are tech savvy. They would want to access their over-the-air content using the same device as their Hulu, Netflix, and the like. The problem is that's still a very small group. I doubt Microsoft would increase the expense of manufacturing a console (by adding additional HDD space, multiple tuners, and DVR functionality in the software) for such a small segment of customers.

    What would be really interesting is if the Xbox One became ubiquitous enough that television providers would actually work with Microsoft to integrate the voice commands with their UI elements. For example, when you're watching TV and say, "xbox select," it would allow you to select things on the set-top box UI. Better yet, and I don't know if this is possible through HDMI or IR, they could add commands with a new keyword to access the set-top box directly. For example, you could say, "u-verse show recordings" or "u-verse go to channel options." That would be pretty cool.
    01-14-2014 10:30 AM
  7. MobileVortex's Avatar
    I really dont know how uncommon "cord cutters" all the people i know 21-30 do not pay for cable or sat, get all their entertainment from netflix/internet streaming/downloading. People older then that are interested but are not confident enough in their ability to do so, or are just lazy. Personally unless you are a HUGE sports nut i dont understand paying for cable or sat... i really dont. I've converted at least 10 households to a "cord cutter" household.
    01-14-2014 11:10 AM
  8. coip's Avatar
    I really dont know how uncommon "cord cutters" all the people i know 21-30 do not pay for cable or sat, get all their entertainment from netflix/internet streaming/downloading. People older then that are interested but are not confident enough in their ability to do so, or are just lazy. Personally unless you are a HUGE sports nut i dont understand paying for cable or sat... i really dont. I've converted at least 10 households to a "cord cutter" household.
    Indeed. I also know quite a few people who want to cut the cord but don't want to go back to the bare bones features of broadcast TV: no Tivo, no channel guide, fewer channels. Xbox One could mitigate those issues by adding in a DVR, adding in the OneGuide, and supplementing the lost channels with other apps (Netflix, Hulu, Xbox Video, etc.), which it already does, and then make it even more feature-rich with the Kinect voice guides. It always surprised me that Microsoft was working so hard to 'play' with the cable companies. The cable companies have no interest in playing nice with Microsoft, who they see as a competitor. I always thought Microsoft should use the Xbox One to encourage more cord cutting by showing cable customers they can have a nice entertainment package, for cheaper, with Xbox One. Sure, there are some people who cannot give up the hundreds of channels they get on cable now, but most cable customers don't care about all those channels. They want just a few: ESPN, TBS, HBO, Comedy Central, or whatever. And the other big ones are free: CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, PBS. If Microsoft could convince the former networks to make more feature-rich Xbox One apps, that coupled with the other streaming apps (Netflix and co.) and the free networks, add in DVR and OneGuide and you've got a living room winner.
    01-14-2014 12:20 PM
  9. mrpuny's Avatar

    Or, better yet, made it so that people could use USB DVR tuners (like those used by people who watch TV via Windows Media Center on their PCs), which could easily plug into the Xbox One. That way no extra set-top boxes would be needed to watch and record free OTA TV on the Xbox One. This would also reduce latency and improve picture quality since the signal doesn't have to run through an extra device.
    While I don't expect Microsoft to do this, even 'cleaner' would be to support network tuners like Silicon Dust makes. Then a user wouldn't even need to connect anything else directly to the Xbox One; the TV channels would just be one more streaming source over the local network. (And technically these external tuners - both USB and Ethernet - exist for OTA and CableCard, so if Microsoft wanted to, they could support cable channels as well. After all, they already do in Windows Media Center, and arguably those features would make more sense for a media console like Xbox rather than a general purpose PC.)
    01-15-2014 06:18 AM
  10. ncxcstud's Avatar
    The only things I wish the XBOX One could do

    1) - Be able to access my DVR list on my DirecTV receiver (I don't think this will ever happen because then users would possibly never use the DirecTV interface at all)

    2) - When I say, "XBOX watch NBC" that it would actually go to my local NBC station (channel 10 on DirecTV) and not to the national NBC station in the 300's. I don't get the national NBC feed (which I believe is the NYC NBC station). Frustrating that it does that. I have to use OneGuide to get to it or my DirecTV remote.

    But, in regards to this thread, the XBOX One would need, as others have noted, a much larger hard drive to achieve the ability to 'destroy Tivo.' If they could get it to control the cable/satellite box completely well, that'd be a win for me...
    01-15-2014 09:13 AM
  11. dgr_874's Avatar
    It's pretty funny there is so much trouble with this when Microsoft already had the perfect setup with windows media center and xbox 360 extenders. I get a great UI, ability to watch and record from any extender in the house, and can expand storage by just attaching an external hard drive to my computer. Right now I'm running 3 extenders and have the capability to store hundreds of hours of HD TV for no monthly fee other than Xbox live.
    01-15-2014 09:23 AM
  12. ohgood's Avatar
    It's pretty funny there is so much trouble with this when Microsoft already had the perfect setup with windows media center and xbox 360 extenders. I get a great UI, ability to watch and record from any extender in the house, and can expand storage by just attaching an external hard drive to my computer. Right now I'm running 3 extenders and have the capability to store hundreds of hours of HD TV for no monthly fee other than Xbox live.
    this ^^^

    we've been using different programs for htpc for years, sharing the files between several computers, phones, and more recently tablets, all from one htpc. storage is completely unrestricted, expandable, and cheap, with no subscriptions needed besides Netflix (for us).

    its really cool to have a beer in the back yard and enjoy a short vimeo, or full length movie, from anywhere around the Wi-Fi router, almost instantly.
    dgr_874 likes this.
    01-15-2014 10:01 AM
  13. Rhody#WP's Avatar
    this ^^^

    we've been using different programs for htpc for years, sharing the files between several computers, phones, and more recently tablets, all from one htpc. storage is completely unrestricted, expandable, and cheap, with no subscriptions needed besides Netflix (for us).

    its really cool to have a beer in the back yard and enjoy a short vimeo, or full length movie, from anywhere around the Wi-Fi router, almost instantly.
    That's great for the consumer, but not great for computer companies who are expanding into content services. Microsoft, Apple, Google, and Amazon don't want you to control the source of the content you consume. They want to control that.
    dgr_874 likes this.
    01-15-2014 10:45 AM
  14. ohgood's Avatar
    That's great for the consumer, but not great for computer companies who are expanding into content services. Microsoft, Apple, Google, and Amazon don't want you to control the source of the content you consume. They want to control that.
    oh, they can control it all they want:

    turn off access, then turn it back on, see which one makes them more dollars! ripping a DVD still makes my heart swell with happiness, along with skipping the theater, where I hear people shoot Waco other over popcorn nowadays
    01-15-2014 02:19 PM
  15. coip's Avatar
    in regards to this thread, the XBOX One would need, as others have noted, a much larger hard drive to achieve the ability to 'destroy Tivo.' If they could get it to control the cable/satellite box completely well, that'd be a win for me...
    The Xbox One doesn't need a much larger hard drive; it just needs to support an external hard drive plugged in via USB. You could easily add an extra terabyte of space for $50-80 that way.
    01-15-2014 02:27 PM
  16. 3earnhardt3's Avatar
    You can buy a homeworx pvr unit for $35-$45 that works with the Xbox One. Works well for me, only one tuner but I have Hulu for most shows.
    01-15-2014 06:46 PM
  17. coip's Avatar
    You can buy a homeworx pvr unit for $35-$45 that works with the Xbox One. Works well for me, only one tuner but I have Hulu for most shows.
    I have one. That's how I watch OTA broadcast TV on Xbox One's TV app. The problem is that you can't use the DVR within the Xbox interface. That's why I want Microsoft to implement DVR support within the Xbox One OS.
    01-15-2014 11:47 PM

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