02-23-2014 06:38 PM
148 12345 ...
tools
  1. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    The big problem is not being able to fully utilize it efficiently right now. Which is something they can figure out.
    That's on the developers outside of Microsoft to figure out though, not Microsoft itself. The thing for Microsoft to fix is the footprint of the Kinect.

    My point is they know how to write software to use their hardware efficiently, and their lower end devices run smoother then that of the competitors (android) Microsoft is a world class (dare i say TOP OF THE LINE) software company. With MS's server farm they are also a world class networking company. Sony is an entertainment company now nothing more. They are not world class software writers, and now they they have sold off their devices division, they are no longer a hardware company. It will be interesting to see how the next few years play out. If i had money to bet i would put it in MS's corner. Thats just my 2 cents.
    It's still a different situation altogether, though. With Android, OEMs are basically delivering two operating systems--Android and the UI/software suite the OEM offers (be it TouchWix or Sense or whatever). Microsoft doesn't necessarily write better software, it puts less of it on the devices. I mean, consider the way that many bigger-name games on Windows Phone require 1 GB of RAM to run. However, Android and iOS devices with 256 MB or 512 MB of RAM are allowed to run them. It could easily be argued that Microsoft ISN'T doing a better job of writing the software, so they put in those RAM restrictions to prevent stuttering with those games.

    Microsoft certainly does its job well, when it comes to delivering a usable consumer or server OS, but to act like they're doing something super-special with their OS is to ignore a bit of the smartphone landscape. iOS isn't seen as a stutter-prone OS. Android's stuttering is because of its addition of an OEM skin as much as anything--stock Android is rarely called choppy. It's avoiding bloatware that keeps Windows Phone smooth. Yes, kudos to Microsoft for getting carrier bloatware off of the OS at the user's whim, but the inconsistent performance with Android is also a byproduct of having an open, customizable OS.

    Before you stop and say that Microsoft's doing everything SO WELL with their OS, take a moment to remember those RAM restrictions for games that the competition lacks. Then consider how horrendous their Xbox LIVE certification process is--so bad that developers have abandoned Xbox gaming on Windows Phone, in more than one instance. Oh, and you'll want to follow that up with the basic features Windows Phone has yet to add, like microSD support for apps. A lot of those great things coming in 8.1 are things that the competition has had for some time now. Oh, and then check out Xbox Music on Windows 8/RT. That atrocity is Microsoft's doing, even if it's not an OS.
    02-17-2014 08:31 PM
  2. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    If they remove the eSRAM or disabled it, the Xbox One will render easily on 1080p, but not on 60fps. The eSRAM that supply the higher frequency on the XONE. Without it, the DDR3 memory will be only on their bus speed, very lesser than GDDR5 used on PS4. Disable it would sound a easy way to developers, but will drain the framerate.
    Not true. The presence of the eSRAM isn't slowing the console. Removing it wouldn't help. If it was that simple, then developers would just be ignoring the eSRAM in their code, and it would idle during gameplay. Dead Rising 3 ran at 30 FPS and 720p. The problem's the overall hardware. Removing stuff won't make it faster when that stuff's not even being used.
    02-17-2014 08:35 PM
  3. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    I think Some are making this out more than it is. Your average Joe buys games for the thrill of playing them. They don't just sit there gauging resolution and counting frame rates. You average consumer just want s great game play, decent features, and a great selection of games.
    And when the exact same game (be it Ghosts, Battlefield 4, Assassin's Creed, Metal Gear Solid, Dying Light, or something else) runs better on the console that is $100 cheaper, the problem shows itself. Yeah, people buy for the games, but when the vast majority of folks are playing cross-platform games, what's their incentive to spend an extra $100 to lose graphical detail?

    I mean, I'm as pro-Xbox as I can be, but there's a limit. Right now, there is 0 incentive for me to buy an Xbox One. I'll get it for Halo, but when it comes to third-party stuff, what's the incentive to get it on an Xbox One over a PC? It used to be that I never really cared to play PC games. However, if a person has a PC, it's hard to say, "no, spend more money on the same game on a platform which will run it worse, and at a worse resolution." The Division is a game I really like because of its visuals. I don't care to cut back to 720p on an Xbox One for it when my PC can do it at a higher resolution, and better.

    For the average consumer, you'd instead be asking "why do I want The Division at a lower resolution for $100 more?" You have to REALLY want Halo, because almost everything else is on PC, PS4, or both.
    02-17-2014 08:40 PM
  4. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Can I say something:

    The 900p version from Xbox One is better than PS4 1080p of Assassins

    But to stop the bad press: Please at least 900p....720p is too much past generation
    No, that's not true. Ryse got dogged for being 900p. Battlefield 4 was 900p on the PS4, and people still ragged on it a little, but they primarily focused on the 720p of the Xbox One. 900p won't fix the problem. They have to get it in-line with the PS4 100%. All 900p will do is give the fanboys a different resolution to type about when they talk about how the Xbox One won't hit 1080p. If it's not equal to the PS4 in resolution, the complaints won't stop.
    DavidinCT likes this.
    02-17-2014 08:42 PM
  5. Polychrome's Avatar
    But on PS4 is faster, smoother and better on visuals right now....the comparisson with Windows phone doesn't make sense at all.
    Look. We all know that Sony knows how to stuff hardware in a box.

    Can you play your 1080p MGS while watching TV? Or how about Netflix? If it's a digital edition, you may even be letting the kids watch Blu-Rays as you play. Maybe you want a news site that auto-refreshes your sports scores every now and then?

    This is what he means by the "experience" Microsoft is trying to put out. This is something that NINTENDO understands better than Sony does at this point. While yes, Sony has put the seemingly more powerful game system together, Microsoft has put together a system that does just a bit more.

    Honestly, I don't understand the fuss over whether or not a game is 1080p. It could be 480i for all I care as long as the end-effect looks nice. I've yet to see the PS4 put out anything that looks even REMOTELY like Ryse. That game wasn't 1080p, but when you look at it, you're not likely to care. The 360 was more powerful than the PS3...and what good did that do them? It's time to understand that they've got more to think about than you folks keeping up with the Joneses over a number.
    02-17-2014 09:30 PM
  6. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Yeah, the PS4 has nothing to compete with Ryse visually, but I'd argue it's just a rip-off of God of War, which will likely be coming to the PS4. More importantly, my point is that the ancient, gory action game already happened, this one's just shinier. That, and you can claim that the 360 was more powerful than the PS3, but it's easily argued that it was just easier to develop for.

    You can sit there and ignore the numbers and be ignorant to the issue, just as you can claim that we're flippantly looking at numbers without noticing the rest of the stuff as well. If covering your ears and acting like you can't hear the obvious helps, go for it. The simple fact is that Microsoft built a console with inferior hardware. They then bottlenecked that inferior hardware with the Kinect's mandatory existence, as it eats up 10% of the GPU. Oh, then they refused to free up that GPU for Ghosts, which allegedly would have brought it on-par with the PS4, or close to it. They also elected to bundle the Kinect with the console, putting the inferior hardware at a $100 premium.

    You can call it "keeping up with the Jonses," or whatever misinformed, antiquated term you care, but that's just ignoring the point. As much as I'd prefer an Xbox One over a PS4, it's just ignoring facts. The sophistication of the OS is irrelevant to the fact that Microsoft skimped on the GPU. The only part of the OS that matters, for this discussion, is that Microsoft let it and the Kinect waste 10% of the GPU, which is a big problem for developers (Infinity Ward allegedly could have gotten the One's version of Ghosts close to the PS4's, but Microsoft wouldn't let them use that extra GPU power).

    I need to stop letting fanboys get me worked up, though. The more I engage you people in "discussion," the angrier I get at the sad job Microsoft did with the Xbox One's hardware, then it makes me rethink getting a One in the future all over again. By the way, the Xbox One can't play 1080p MGS while watching TV. It can't play 1080p MGS AT ALL. I don't even like MGS but you should have worded your sentence better, because it didn't help the Xbox One.
    02-17-2014 11:02 PM
  7. Reflexx's Avatar
    And when the exact same game (be it Ghosts, Battlefield 4, Assassin's Creed, Metal Gear Solid, Dying Light, or something else) runs better on the console that is $100 cheaper, the problem shows itself. Yeah, people buy for the games, but when the vast majority of folks are playing cross-platform games, what's their incentive to spend an extra $100 to lose graphical detail?

    I mean, I'm as pro-Xbox as I can be, but there's a limit. Right now, there is 0 incentive for me to buy an Xbox One. I'll get it for Halo, but when it comes to third-party stuff, what's the incentive to get it on an Xbox One over a PC? It used to be that I never really cared to play PC games. However, if a person has a PC, it's hard to say, "no, spend more money on the same game on a platform which will run it worse, and at a worse resolution." The Division is a game I really like because of its visuals. I don't care to cut back to 720p on an Xbox One for it when my PC can do it at a higher resolution, and better.

    For the average consumer, you'd instead be asking "why do I want The Division at a lower resolution for $100 more?" You have to REALLY want Halo, because almost everything else is on PC, PS4, or both.
    I suppose this could be an issue if all you buy a console for is to play multiplatform games.

    I expect most multiplatform games to look better on the PS4. It does have better graphics hardware.

    If you want innovative gameplay, then there is much more potential with the XBOX ONE. We'll probably see more games start taking advantage of the Kinect hardware in a year or so.

    Sure, the PS4 will have some slightly better resolution. And it will only really be noticable if you have them side by side and you're actively looking for differences.

    However, the gameplay abilities that can be built into games with XBOX ONE are things that the PS4 just can't do. Period.

    And if you want a full home entertainment system, the XBOX ONE is superior there also.

    So in summary, if you only want a console just for the purpose of playing multiplatform games (or Sony exclusives), then the PS4 is a fine choice. Nothing wrong with making that choice.

    However, if you are looking forward to new types of gameplay, as opposed to just higher resolution, then the XBOX ONE is a great option. If you're looking for a home entertainment system, the XBOX ONE is a great option. If you're just looking for a new next gen way to interact with your console, TV, radio, then the XBOX is the best option.
    02-18-2014 12:18 AM
  8. unstoppablekem's Avatar
    Anyone else notice this thread tends to sometimes go off course from what it should be about? :-/


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    02-18-2014 12:50 AM
  9. Coreldan's Avatar
    Yeah, the PS4 has nothing to compete with Ryse visually, but I'd argue it's just a rip-off of God of War, which will likely be coming to the PS4. More importantly, my point is that the ancient, gory action game already happened, this one's just shinier.
    I don't think the two games play any similarly though. Sure, the setting is "ancient <insert empire>" and both have gore, sure, but that's pretty much as far as the similarities go with actual gameplay. Well, both are more or less hack n slash, but they are still very, very different. I think GoWs have always looked boring as hell, like all games that are similar to that. Ryse then again interested me a lot more from the first trailer.

    Given, I've never played any GoW personally, but I did check several different videos sometime last year when I was trying to figure out what all the fuss was about, the game didn't really appeal to me.
    02-18-2014 02:59 AM
  10. Markham Ranja's Avatar
    I think Some are making this out more than it is. Your average Joe buys games for the thrill of playing them. They don't just sit there gauging resolution and counting frame rates. You average consumer just want s great game play, decent features, and a great selection of games.
    In that case, Average Joe will look at the price tag, decide that $400 is quite a bit less than $500, and choose the PS4.
    02-18-2014 03:41 AM
  11. Markham Ranja's Avatar
    I don't think the two games play any similarly though. Sure, the setting is "ancient <insert empire>" and both have gore, sure, but that's pretty much as far as the similarities go with actual gameplay. Well, both are more or less hack n slash, but they are still very, very different. I think GoWs have always looked boring as hell, like all games that are similar to that. Ryse then again interested me a lot more from the first trailer.

    Given, I've never played any GoW personally, but I did check several different videos sometime last year when I was trying to figure out what all the fuss was about, the game didn't really appeal to me.
    Can you expand on what you feel these differences are? I played Ryse on a friend's box and it seemed conceptually similar to GoW. The art styling was different, but actual gameplay was not very different.
    wptest likes this.
    02-18-2014 03:45 AM
  12. Reflexx's Avatar
    In that case, Average Joe will look at the price tag, decide that $400 is quite a bit less than $500, and choose the PS4.
    Unless that average also likes features beyond just games.
    02-18-2014 04:31 AM
  13. Coreldan's Avatar
    Can you expand on what you feel these differences are? I played Ryse on a friend's box and it seemed conceptually similar to GoW. The art styling was different, but actual gameplay was not very different.
    I dunno, Ryse feels almost more like a 3rd person shooter (obviously it isnt) but its sort of much slower and I guess realistic whereas in GoW you take on 20 mobs with your weapons that reach 20 yards with some weird magical effects. GoW feels much more like the "usual" hack n slash game. Hell, even DR3 feels closer to GoW to me than Ryse, even if the hisrorical settings might have more similarities with Ryse.. but then again, do they? Ancient greek and rome really arnt the same setting, GoW is way more mythological, where Ryse is more of a.. fictional history I guess :P

    I'm not saying GoW is bad, just that I find them very different. If both were X1 titles, I wouldnt even consider GoW from what I've seen, but Ryse I would buy all over again :P

    Perhaps as an analogy I could say that both ARMA and Titanfall are FPS games, much like GoW and Ryse are both 3rd person hack n slash games, but outside guns, shooting people and the perspective, ARMA and Titanfall are very different games that have a totally different target audience. And with this example too, I don't care for ARMA (out of experience) but Titanfall I'm buying ASAP :P
    Last edited by Coreldan; 02-18-2014 at 05:38 AM.
    02-18-2014 04:32 AM
  14. Dave Bhullar's Avatar
    Can anyone explain why some developers can make 1080p games on Xbox one while others cannot?
    minus365 likes this.
    02-18-2014 04:43 AM
  15. Coreldan's Avatar
    Can anyone explain why some developers can make 1080p games on Xbox one while others cannot?
    My theory is that many find better balance at higher other graphical details, but lower res. Probably all of em could do 1080p, but they dont find it the best end result. I don't mind this, Ryse is a good example, but yeah, it looks meh in the headlines :P
    minus365 and Dave Bhullar like this.
    02-18-2014 04:48 AM
  16. minus365's Avatar
    Can anyone explain why some developers can make 1080p games on Xbox one while others cannot?
    Same concern here. If Xbox1 is capable of running Forza5 1080p/60fps, then the power is there, but i's not utilized to certain extent by developers, mainly for cross-platform games. OK, it may be due to bit more complicated architecture as well as the eSRAM, which is new thing for everyone, not only for MS Devs, but also for other game developers who are working on games for the Xbox1 platform.

    I believe, there will be improvements in the near future and we will get to standard 1080p/60fps when neccessary, but that seems to take bit more time than we all would expect. MS needs to work hard on new Devkits and put it as no.1 priority, as that is the major issue which needs to be addressed first.

    I agree with Coreldan, more pixels doesn't mean it will look better.. Probably it will be extra opposite. PS4 has mostly all games 1080p, but they have problem to maintain steady framerates. Just look at AC4 for PS4 and compare to Xbox one. There is poor ligthing and high distance detail is simply bad looking on PS4. I can see "fog" in many PS4 that are masking the level od details that needs to be rendered to whole screen, so it saves bit of resources to guarantee higher resolution, etc..

    None the less, I wouldn't be so critical as all the panic seems interpreting Xbox1 games looks ****e side-by-side PS4, which simply is not true.
    Dave Bhullar likes this.
    02-18-2014 07:00 AM
  17. Coreldan's Avatar
    I don't understand why you are so worried over it? There can be only one console in the first place of units sold. That doesn't mean second place is far behind and it really isn't, consider how few markets it's actually available in. Xbox One is doing amazing, it's just that PS4 is doing a bit better. So what?

    Perhaps you really need to get yourself the PS4, as much as I love my own Xbox One but it gets sore tiresome to read people like you needing to justify their purchase at every turn. I recommend you get yourself a gaming PC though since you care about units sold and power way too much for your own good :P

    Xbox One outsold PS4 in the US in December, does this mean Xbox One wins now? :P There's a lot of factors in play when looking at units sold on a monthly basis. That said, it's no secret PS4 currently sells more, the price alone would do that.
    Vallos and Reflexx like this.
    02-18-2014 08:43 AM
  18. radmanvr's Avatar
    We can sit here and argue all day about PS4 vs X1 but the thing is they appeal to different crowds of people. The PS4 is a gaming console only, while the X1 is not.

    Some people think the features on X1 are useless to them and that's fine but to a family man the X1 is far superior. My wife would have never agreed to a a PS4 but the list of features on the X1 made it an easier choice.

    My point is if some people want a be all end all gaming console get the steam machine, I mean PS4.

    The OP is saying MSFT will lose developers because of bad press and X1 will miss out on next-gen games but as an X1 user I don't think that really affects me as gaming is not the main objective of my X1. Entertainment is, and if I can't have Metal Gear Solid that's fine by me because I can just say X BOX GO TO TV and watch something to entertain me.
    Reflexx likes this.
    02-18-2014 09:02 AM
  19. ImmortalWarrior's Avatar
    I got an Xbox One because I already have a much better console than a PS4 - a gaming PC. If I want bleeding edge graphics, I get a PC game. I don't care enough about PS4 exclusives and graphics on the PS4 AND Xbox are decidedly worse than what I get on my PC.

    However, Xbox One has more intriguing features and future possibilities. PS4 is just another inferior PC.
    02-18-2014 09:41 AM
  20. radmanvr's Avatar
    I got an Xbox One because I already have a much better console than a PS4 - a gaming PC. If I want bleeding edge graphics, I get a PC game. I don't care enough about PS4 exclusives and graphics on the PS4 AND Xbox are decidedly worse than what I get on my PC.

    However, Xbox One has more intriguing features and future possibilities. PS4 is just another inferior PC.
    Amen. Brother. Preach on.
    ImmortalWarrior likes this.
    02-18-2014 09:45 AM
  21. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Can anyone explain why some developers can make 1080p games on Xbox one while others cannot?
    I'd say it's a few things. For starters, Microsoft provided their eSRAM to try to make up for the speed differences between their own DDR3 and Sony's GDDR5, which is a lot faster. However, developers haven't quite figured out how best to use that small, super-fast RAM to their best advantage. So, that means they aren't pushing the given hardware to its full potential. A good comparison would be Forza vs. Battlefield. Forza released solely on the Xbox One, so Turn 10 could put 100% of its time towards developing for Microsoft's console. Battlefield came from EA, who had to focus on developing for 4 consoles and the PC.

    After that, there's the simple fact that not all games are made graphically equal. Turn 10 actually cut back on details (particularly changing the crowd from 3-D to 2-D) on Forza 5, so that likely helped in getting it to 1080p and 60 FPS. Even then, Battlefield and Call of Duty are not graphically equal. Battlefield has to account for a lot more physics and environmental changes, since their maps are so destructible and dynamic. The best way to say it is that it's a lot easier to produce 1080p textures for Frogger than Halo.
    Polychrome likes this.
    02-18-2014 09:58 AM
  22. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    I got an Xbox One because I already have a much better console than a PS4 - a gaming PC. If I want bleeding edge graphics, I get a PC game. I don't care enough about PS4 exclusives and graphics on the PS4 AND Xbox are decidedly worse than what I get on my PC.

    However, Xbox One has more intriguing features and future possibilities. PS4 is just another inferior PC.
    That's all fairly true, and it's why I would take a One over a PS4 myself (have a PC and don't care for Sony's exclusives), but that doesn't mean it's irrelevant that Microsoft's done a poor job with its console. Not everyone wants to play games on a PC--many want to be in the living room, maybe playing with a sibling online. Microsoft just didn't do a great job building a gaming console, sadly. Now, they've put themselves in a position to improve upon it (by freeing up GPU space taken by the OS and Kinect), but the current state of the console is that it's inferior to the competition, when considering internals.

    When we're talking about a time where board members want to cut the Xbox division loose, it's important for Microsoft to show that the Xbox is a viable product for them. While the Halo and Forza fans will be there in droves, having Microsoft's console lose out badly among third-party gamers (the Battlefield and CoD folks) means that the console will not sell as well, won't make as much money, and is more likely to be sold off.
    02-18-2014 10:03 AM
  23. MobileVortex's Avatar
    I prefer being on the less popular option honestly. I dont feel crippled at all by the things you described. This thing only costs $500. I dont know how anyone can expect crazy specs when my cell phone costs more, my GPU(s) in my computer cost more, my mobo/processor cost more, my student loan payments costs more. While $500 is not a little bit of money, its not a lot either.

    Consoles are the quick easy and cheaper way of gaming. And i fully expect Xbox 2 to be released in 2017 or 2018, followed by xbox 3 in 2021. We are not going to see another 10 year console cycle IMHO.
    ImmortalWarrior likes this.
    02-18-2014 10:25 AM
  24. jlzimmerman's Avatar
    Anti-MS articles sure are a dime a dozen and quick to make it to the headlines. Yet when Battlefield on PS4 had frame rate drops galore, those articles were few and far between. Shocker.

    MS has loads of cloud servers available for developers to use to offload some of the processing needs of their games. I wonder why they're not using it? Maybe they don't know how yet?

    In regards to looks for me as a gamer, 1080p is a want, but not a necessity. So much more goes into making a good game. A good example is Skyrim. While it had inferior graphics, distance rendering, and scaling when it was released during the swan song of the last gen consoles, it was one of the best games I played during that 7 or 8 year span.
    Vallos and Reflexx like this.
    02-18-2014 10:39 AM
  25. jaimeastin's Avatar
    I really don't care... I chose the Xbox for many reasons I did not choose the ps4... This was my first Xbox and I was/still a ps3 owner last Gen.. I still may get a ps4, but I love that the Xbox is the center of the living room. I eally don't game much anymore and that trend may continue, but I don't have to change a channel to play... It is on. My games and media right there..

    I am buying into the Microsoft vision and even installed windows on my multi-monitored bad grass xps 8300. Man o man, why did I wait? This one experience may just be super amazing... Now I still love winows 7 and left a few of my babies in the server closet back as the personal benefits and even the slight performance u grades are not enough to test for their much needed operations...

    With all the nice things I have, 720 has been far from an issue for my computer and console gaming needs... I am just possibly, maybe considering upping the resolution to a seemingly bigger and better beast that rarely use... Now computers are different, you always beer max red, jk, maybe not :P😎
    Last edited by jaimeastin; 02-18-2014 at 11:03 AM.
    Reflexx and Polychrome like this.
    02-18-2014 10:52 AM
148 12345 ...

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 63
    Last Post: 05-01-2014, 01:30 PM
  2. Surface 2 and Lumia 2520's weight with keyboard on ?
    By koon555 in forum General Desktop, Laptop & Tablet Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-22-2014, 08:59 AM
  3. GTA: San Andreas reappears on the Windows Store, now available for download
    By WindowsCentral.com in forum Windows Central News Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-21-2014, 07:33 PM
  4. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-17-2014, 01:06 PM
  5. Best Solution for File storage and emailing?
    By GENUK in forum Windows Phone 8
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-17-2014, 09:35 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD