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02-23-2014 05:38 PM
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  1. unstoppablekem's Avatar
    1. The PS4 (on paper) is more powerful. Get over it.

    2. Numerous developers have already stated that the SDK for the Xbox One needs improving. And according to the dev team at Rebellion, the SDK update is either coming or has gone live already. The upcoming improvements should, according to Rebellion, solve the 1080p issue in future games. Unfortunately, it does nothing for the games currently in the pipeline such as MGS5.

    3. The Xbox One version is likely being coded by a separate team much like how Titanfall on the 360 is being coded by a separate team. Unless you seriously believe that the same team is coding for all four systems at once...

    4. These systems have only been on the shelf for a couple of months and will likely be on the shelf for the next decade. A much more fair comparison would be in 3-4 years, past both systems necessary SDK improvements and once developers can truly take advantage of both consoles.
    1. Yes it is, but future games that will take full advantage of its hardware (Sony exclusive games) will look amazing because of it.

    2. That's good news, but when you say "not for games currently in the pipeline", I hope that doesn't include games that are a bit far away, like Watchdogs and The Division.

    3. Yeah, obviously. You're right, who would believe that one single team is coding for ALL the systems at once? :P

    4. I feel in 1-3 years, things will improve a lot.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    02-19-2014 10:06 AM
  2. HeyCori's Avatar
    Being that Forza has already dropped multiple 500mb+ updates, there's no reason why these games can't be updated at a later date. Games always get updated after they've been released, there is no reason why it should stop now.
    Unfortunately, content updates are much different than recoding the game. Even fixing bugs/glitches is significantly different than recoding the core of a game. It even affects DLC as DLC must fit within the restraints of the original game. I'm not saying it's impossible. It totally is. World of Warcraft has done it several times throughout the years. The biggest influence is sales-post-release.

    Unlike WoW, which still maintains an amazingly large user base, the sale of console games sharply decline after release. And, as the months drag on, the amount of people still playing that game diminishes as well. Retrofitting an old game for a small user base is often a waste of time and money for both developers and publishers. Easier to start working on DLC with the current restraints than to recode large portions of the original game. Plus, it would split the user base between people that installed the game on the HDD and people still running it off a disc.

    I agree, it would be cool if Konami went back and updated the graphics for MGS5 to take advantage of the improved SDK. It's just not likely to happen. Fortunately, all these SDK improvements are happening now and not 5 years later so developers can plan their projects around the extra horsepower the SDK will provide.
    02-19-2014 10:17 AM
  3. HeyCori's Avatar
    1. Yes it is, but future games that will take full advantage of its hardware (Sony exclusive games) will look amazing because of it.

    2. That's good news, but when you say "not for games currently in the pipeline", I hope that doesn't include games that are a bit far away, like Watchdogs and The Division.

    3. Yeah, obviously. You're right, who would believe that one single team is coding for ALL the systems at once? :P

    4. I feel in 1-3 years, things will improve a lot.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    I don't know much about the Division but it's probably too late for Watchdogs. Watchdogs was originally supposed to release last year so they're probably deep into development at this point.
    02-19-2014 10:22 AM
  4. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    2. That's good news, but when you say "not for games currently in the pipeline", I hope that doesn't include games that are a bit far away, like Watchdogs and The Division.

    4. I feel in 1-3 years, things will improve a lot.
    It's too late for Watch Dogs, as its release is scheduled for next quarter. That means they're probably close to having everything finalized, and they'll be popping out discs soon. The Division has a bit of a floating release date, I think, it's not guaranteed to hit stores this year. It's expected for the fall as of now, but it could change. However, I think it's too late for that game as well, sadly. We're talking about an SDK refresh here, but that means that all games currently in-development are working on that new SDK. Without knowing when those SDK changes will come, it's highly questionable if a team would want to migrate a nearly-finished game over to that new SDK to get some improvements. For something like The Division where it might be years before its next installment, it'd be a maybe. For annual titles like CoD, I imagine they'll just say "we'll use it next time."

    But if you're thinking 1-3 years before improvement, you're already counting The Division out. I expect that Halo 5 would also be out of luck, but I also think that Microsoft throws WAY too much time, effort, and money into that franchise for it to not shine on a lesser SDK anyway. But the issues with graphical quality on the Xbox One are really annoying. While I wouldn't care much for CoD, I care a lot for The Division, which I maintain is one of the most impressive games I've seen ever, in terms of visuals. Even if I get an Xbox One before that game releases, I'll probably be getting The Division on PC because I don't want a sub-par visual experience.
    02-19-2014 02:22 PM
  5. minus365's Avatar
    After Microsoft's earlier reveal of Murdered: Soul Suspect on Xbox One, publisher Square Enix has confirmed a PlayStation 4 version of the game is also in the works.

    Next-gen versions will boast "native 1080p output.

    Murdered: Soul Suspect headed to Xbox One
    Last edited by minus365; 02-19-2014 at 03:50 PM.
    02-19-2014 03:16 PM
  6. Jas00555's Avatar
    Well, we apparently won't see Fallout 4 for a while, so I guess we can take solace in the fact that that'll be a title on the new SDK.
    02-19-2014 06:16 PM
  7. smoledman's Avatar
    It's getting pretty clear by now that XBone doesn't have the GPU horsepower to do 1080p 60fps. They crippled it to keep the cost down for Kinect.
    02-19-2014 10:28 PM
  8. minus365's Avatar
    don't be pesimistic, I bet my left hand, that system gets optimized, some more resources will be freed up to boost the performance by system updates + new SDK released to make the usage of eSRAM much easier for developers. OK, we will still be less powerfull than WS4, but there won't be many 720p games anymore. I am sure about it.

    Personally I don't care about some tech specs and flamed discussions. If I should choose between +10% of power or rock stable XboxLive and Xbox controller with Kinect,. I would still stay with Xbox even with less power.
    Do you remember Crysis I? great graphic but terible gameplay, I didn't finish the game and never continue with the serie. Gaming is not just about pixels.
    02-20-2014 02:14 AM
  9. Reflexx's Avatar
    I don't really get the whole 1080p need anyway. Maybe if game characters looked like the Avatar movie or something it would matter more to me. But as of right now, graphic fidelity is still limited more by polygon count than resolution.

    When foreground characters have polycounts so high that each polygon is smaller than a pixel on the screen, then it may be a big issue. As of right now it's not really a big deal.
    02-20-2014 02:23 AM
  10. SnailUK's Avatar
    It's getting pretty clear by now that XBone doesn't have the GPU horsepower to do 1080p 60fps. They crippled it to keep the cost down for Kinect.
    Being that the 360 was able to do 1080p @ 60fps (admittedly only a handful of games), and Forza 5 already achieves 1080p @ 60fps, the xbox one is perfectly capable of achieving it.

    As we've seen in every previous generation, developers are lazy, and won't do much work to optimise their games, so its hardly a supprise 3rd party games aren't as good as first party.
    02-20-2014 03:10 AM
  11. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    don't be pesimistic, I bet my left hand, that system gets optimized, some more resources will be freed up to boost the performance by system updates + new SDK released to make the usage of eSRAM much easier for developers. OK, we will still be less powerfull than WS4, but there won't be many 720p games anymore. I am sure about it.

    Personally I don't care about some tech specs and flamed discussions. If I should choose between +10% of power or rock stable XboxLive and Xbox controller with Kinect,. I would still stay with Xbox even with less power.
    Do you remember Crysis I? great graphic but terible gameplay, I didn't finish the game and never continue with the serie. Gaming is not just about pixels.
    Except:

    1. The GPU gap isn't 10%, it's 10% of the Xbox One's GPU that's being eaten by the OS/Kinect. The actual difference from the One to the PS4 is greater than that.
    2. We're not talking about picking and choosing games vs. graphics here. We're talking about the same game on opposing platforms. It's not like the Xbox One is getting better gameplay with MGS, while the PS4 gets extra pixels. It's not either-or here, Sony's got both things going for it.

    It'd be one thing if the consoles were comparable in cost, but it's REALLY hard to justify to the masses that an extra $100 is worth inferior hardware, in the name of a camera many won't care to use.
    02-20-2014 09:37 AM
  12. HeyCori's Avatar
    Microsoft is reportedly freeing up 8% for developers to do what as they please.

    Microsoft Reportedly Relaxing Xbox One Kinect Requirements, Giving GPU Power A Boost - HotHardware

    My guess would be that all these changes get rolled into the new SDK.
    02-20-2014 09:49 AM
  13. darkest.white's Avatar
    Xbox one has more of a nextgen feel. People can be all blah blah blah graphics all they like but if they care that much get a PC. End of story :P everyone has their own cup of tea, no one is right, no one is wrong, its all preference. Lets all just hug and be friends
    02-20-2014 07:24 PM
  14. Polychrome's Avatar
    Being that the 360 was able to do 1080p @ 60fps (admittedly only a handful of games), and Forza 5 already achieves 1080p @ 60fps, the xbox one is perfectly capable of achieving it.

    As we've seen in every previous generation, developers are lazy, and won't do much work to optimise their games, so its hardly a supprise 3rd party games aren't as good as first party.
    And that's the real problem with the ESRAM. It's great and all when a dev that knows what they are doing uses it. I think the real problem is that it's a burden to devs who don't really use gimmicks like that.

    But honestly, after Tomb Raider, I'm sufficiently satisfied that 3rd party titles will look just peachy. I'm really hoping that it's Microsoft that will impress me this time around. Games like Lost Odyssey, Kameo, Viva Pinata, and Blue Dragon blew me away, and not just with their graphics. But did a tiny power jump over the PS3 really help the 360 that much? No. I think, once again, Microsoft's fighting a different battle here. And if they can top the above, I'll be more than sufficiently happy.
    02-20-2014 08:29 PM
  15. Markham Ranja's Avatar
    Being that the 360 was able to do 1080p @ 60fps (admittedly only a handful of games), and Forza 5 already achieves 1080p @ 60fps, the xbox one is perfectly capable of achieving it.

    As we've seen in every previous generation, developers are lazy, and won't do much work to optimise their games, so its hardly a supprise 3rd party games aren't as good as first party.
    A potato could run Forza at 1080p. Not really a good example.
    02-20-2014 10:00 PM
  16. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Xbox one has more of a nextgen feel. People can be all blah blah blah graphics all they like but if they care that much get a PC. End of story :P everyone has their own cup of tea, no one is right, no one is wrong, its all preference. Lets all just hug and be friends
    Yeah, there are definitely rights and wrongs in these discussions, like saying that one "has more of a nextgen feel." There's no such thing, it's all just a mental fallacy, in my opinion. Yea,h the Xbox One's OS can multitask, and the Kinect can do whatever, but what else "feels" next-gen? Sony's next-gen "feel," on the other hand, cranks up the graphics, while also prepping a robust online gaming service in PlayStation Now, which will at least offer SOME level of backwards compatibility.

    This argument that people who care about graphics can/should go PC is so tired now, it really is. The simple fact is that a PC is a more-expensive investment, and its control scheme (mouse and keyboard) does not fit well with the portability of a console, which you can play from a chair or a couch or a floor, because the controller isn't large like a keyboard, nor does it need a laser to track. So it's really not just a "if you like graphics, get a PC," because getting a PC can mean $1,000+ to do what you want from a console. Instead, the statement could easily be "if they care about graphics that much, they can save $100 and get a PS4 to do a better job."

    Yeah, it's mostly about preferences with exclusives. No, the bump in MGS pixels won't deter many form Halo. But while I am usually just one to say "get the console with your favorite exclusives," statements like "its all preference," snap me out of that stance to point out that it's simply not all about preference. There are factual matters at-hand here to assess.
    02-20-2014 10:54 PM
  17. coip's Avatar
    I also think the Xbox One has a more next-gen feel. The multitasking capabilities of the OS--being able to snap apps and instantly switch between them with voice commands, being able to turn the console on and off with a voice command (and having it turn on your TV and set top box too), all are much more impressive to me than minor graphical differences. I actually find the PS4 to be kind of boring and don't really see it's appeal, especially since the One has a much better game selection right now (Dead Rising 3, Killer Instinct, Forza 5, Ryse, Peggle 2, Halo: Spartan Assault, Max: Curse of Brotherhood, Plants vs. Zombies: Garden Warfare, Titanfall, etc.).

    That said, I'm also getting sick of hearing Sony fanboys boast about how they have a cheaper console that is more powerful. I am not a developer and don't understand things like eSRAM and GPUs and whatnot, but is it really possible for the Xbox One to close the gap? That is, if 1. Microsoft can optimize system resources, and 2. developers get a better hang of the hardware, and 3. whatever that 'power of the cloud' stuff is that people keep talking about (but if this is a thing, couldn't PS4 do the same thing and therefore also see gains?).

    Anyway, I find it ironic that Sony fanboys are all obsessed with eye candy. If they care that much about it, they should be PC gamers, right? I absolutely love my Xbox One, particularly the Kinect, and I hope that Microsoft never backs down on their assertion that it will always be bundled in. I hope they can find a way to lower the price because that's the only reason, in my opinion, that the PS4 is outselling the One right now. Speaking of that, how is Sony able to have more powerful hardware and be able to sell it that much cheaper? I've heard that the Kinect costs $100, explaining the price discrepancy, but even then, it should be even, right? But Sony has a better GPU and better RAM (like, really expensive RAM, I hear). How are they affording to sell the PS4 at $399?
    02-20-2014 11:51 PM
  18. unstoppablekem's Avatar
    How are they affording to sell the PS4 at $399?
    They actually lose $18 per units sold.
    02-21-2014 12:41 AM
  19. Coreldan's Avatar
    Actually closing the gap is probably impossible, unless MS calls back all X1s and installs different hardware into them, but it's possible to catch up enough where the difference is small enough to not even matter to those gaming "journalists" with their clickbait articles.

    Consoles have typically been sold at a loss and the benefits reaped from games and accessories and services. I don't think Xbox One is any more profitable per unit than the PS4, the Kinect is probably expensive enough for that. Even if they could have components and assembly in that budget, shipping and everything else would likely make it sell at a loss :P Kinect likely isn't "100$", that's just armchair math cos of the price difference of the two consoles, but yes, it is quite expensive and probably the primary reason why PS4 has more powerful hardware at cheaper price tag. I think PS4 wanted to have the Eye bundled, just like Kinect, but they reverted that after MS's announcement cos of the backlash and to compete more in price. Sony had that advantage, they were announcing theirs later..
    02-21-2014 03:04 AM
  20. minus365's Avatar
    Except:

    1. The GPU gap isn't 10%, it's 10% of the Xbox One's GPU that's being eaten by the OS/Kinect. The actual difference from the One to the PS4 is greater than that.
    2. We're not talking about picking and choosing games vs. graphics here. We're talking about the same game on opposing platforms. It's not like the Xbox One is getting better gameplay with MGS, while the PS4 gets extra pixels. It's not either-or here, Sony's got both things going for it.
    It'd be one thing if the consoles were comparable in cost, but it's REALLY hard to justify to the masses that an extra $100 is worth inferior hardware, in the name of a camera many won't care to use.
    1. OK, I should better say "If I should choose between +XY%...". You apparently missed what I was trying to say or I was not clear. Soo, It is not just about pixels, buty the OS you are used to, your live account, friends in your network, stable online gaming, extra features, controller, etc... and that can be compared between One and PS4. OK, PS4 is giving you more pixels, but they have rubbish controllers, network, community, no extra features... So it's up to everyone's preference.

    2.In the past, whole the resolution flaming debates was ussualy on PC nerds discussion forums. 2years ago 90% of console players didn't give a damn about what resolution is the game they are playing running at, native or upscaled, whatever. Sony's doing really well in this viral PR, strenghtened by Kojima's tweets. That may be the only thing well done by Sony in last decade. :D
    When talking about MGS, it seems to be pretty rubbish if you ask me. I am wodnering why MS didn't strictly required certain game minimum settings as it is clearly visible Konami ****ed that up on purpose. Konami as a Japanese brand seems to be supporting PS4 by not doing their best to provide the same quality for Xbox platform. I won't buy that for sure, as the game is pretty rubbish considering 2 hours length and don't like it at all. There will be much better game coming out for X1 this year.
    What else on PS4? Order 1886, type of Gears of War clone packed with QTEs coming out end of year if they;re lucky? InFamous, not for me. The only game I;d like to play on PS4 is uncharted, bit cliche I know, but I;ve never played anything from the serie and it looks pretty good.

    When looking at 5hrs of battery life in DS4 controller, OS not updated since launch (ok, sorry, there was one update that addded headphone support :)), poor quality of the rubber on the nalog pads of DS4, hmm. I don't mind having few pixels less for the time being. :)
    02-21-2014 03:33 AM
  21. 5150 Joker's Avatar
    PS4 has 50% more shader performance than the Xbox One, the Xbox will never keep up. Both consoles are pathetic hardware wise with gpu less powerful than a mobile 7970m.


    Sent from my Yellow Nokia 1520 (RM-937)
    Last edited by 5150 Joker; 02-21-2014 at 05:02 AM.
    02-21-2014 04:47 AM
  22. Coreldan's Avatar
    Both consoles are pathetic hardware wise with gpu less powerful than a mobile 7970m.

    That's always been the case with consoles. The "power" in comparison to PCs and PC hardware typically comes from the fact that developers know exactly what hardware you will be playing on, thus it's far easier to optimize. Whereas on PC you can have like an infinite amount of HW combinations and you can even have pretty good stuff and still have the game run like crap, cos it's just hard to optimize perfectly for everything.
    02-21-2014 05:41 AM
  23. radmanvr's Avatar
    Yeah, there are definitely rights and wrongs in these discussions, like saying that one "has more of a nextgen feel." There's no such thing, it's all just a mental fallacy, in my opinion. Yea,h the Xbox One's OS can multitask, and the Kinect can do whatever, but what else "feels" next-gen? Sony's next-gen "feel," on the other hand, cranks up the graphics, while also prepping a robust online gaming service in PlayStation Now, which will at least offer SOME level of backwards compatibility.

    This argument that people who care about graphics can/should go PC is so tired now, it really is. The simple fact is that a PC is a more-expensive investment, and its control scheme (mouse and keyboard) does not fit well with the portability of a console, which you can play from a chair or a couch or a floor, because the controller isn't large like a keyboard, nor does it need a laser to track. So it's really not just a "if you like graphics, get a PC," because getting a PC can mean $1,000+ to do what you want from a console. Instead, the statement could easily be "if they care about graphics that much, they can save $100 and get a PS4 to do a better job."

    Yeah, it's mostly about preferences with exclusives. No, the bump in MGS pixels won't deter many form Halo. But while I am usually just one to say "get the console with your favorite exclusives," statements like "its all preference," snap me out of that stance to point out that it's simply not all about preference. There are factual matters at-hand here to assess.

    I stopped reading at $1,000+ to get a PC to do what a console does.

    The PC I built for my wife cost $500 and its a 6 Core 16g Ram with a Radeon HD 7 Series. My wife also has it connected to our Vizio 30 inch tv and plays while laying on the bed with an xbox controller.
    02-21-2014 10:20 AM
  24. unstoppablekem's Avatar
    There will be much better game coming out for X1 this year.
    There are some great cross platform and exclusive games that are coming to the X1 this year! Titanfall, Watchdogs, The Division (if it doesn't get delayed), Halo, and more. :D
    02-21-2014 10:49 AM
  25. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    I stopped reading at $1,000+ to get a PC to do what a console does.

    The PC I built for my wife cost $500 and its a 6 Core 16g Ram with a Radeon HD 7 Series. My wife also has it connected to our Vizio 30 inch tv and plays while laying on the bed with an xbox controller.
    What are the specs? I'm guessing they don't ACTUALLY compare, but that's me. You can certainly get a $500 PC to do things just fine, but it likely won't compare to the quality of consoles, sadly.
    02-21-2014 11:41 AM
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