1. bobsentell's Avatar
    Ten Presuppositions

    1. Sony owns the console lead this generation and no developer will give that up right now.
    2. More PCs than all consoles combined.
    3. Switch and Xbox combined will eventually approach PS4 usage base even if they never surpass it.
    4. Maintaining one online server is cheaper than multiple servers for different platforms.
    5. Many newer games are moving towards an MMO style even with campaign content (see: FallOut 76, Destiny, etc).
    6. Microtransactions rely on ongoing player interaction.
    7. Players are more likely to play online games their friends also play.
    8. Cross-play is extremely popular with gamers and two of the big three openly support it.
    9. What kept Nintendo alive during the WiiU years was their IP. Sony doesn't have as beloved IP.
    10. What is keeping Xbox alive during this generation is Microsoft's deep pockets. Microsoft has bought companies larger than Sony.


    At what point does a game publisher decide it is cheaper to bypass PlayStation altogether than to go through the expense of supporting an isolated system with a much lower ROI? How long does the PlayStation survive if they do? Their stock plummeted after the Fortnite disaster. Imagine if FallOut 76 had announced their game would not be coming to PS4 due to the cross-play restrictions.
    06-21-2018 03:12 PM
  2. sd4f's Avatar
    It's a simple equation; how much does it cost to port the game, and how much do they think they will sell? If they think they're going to make money, they port.

    If they didn't think that they'd make money, then they wouldn't be porting to the playstation.
    06-21-2018 07:46 PM
  3. Guest_aotf's Avatar
    LOL I can't really understand this topic.
    I mean the PS4 does way more cross play with non-Sony platforms than MS with non-MS platforms.
    A PS4 player have potentially more to play against than a switch or XB1 player even with cross play.

    Sony doesn't have as beloved IP?
    What? I hope you're kidding. Uncharted, TLOU, Horizon, GoW... aren't loved IPs?

    "At what point does a game publisher decide it is cheaper to bypass PlayStation altogether than to go through the expense of supporting an isolated system with a much lower ROI?"
    You know what is strange? You come up with a thread like this as if there are tones of games that have cross play between the switch and XB1. There are just an handful.
    The fact remains PS4 does more cross play with non-Sony platforoms than XB1.
    PS4 + PC + android... is bigger than Switch + XB1 + PC + android...
    If anything it's Switch and XB1 who are isolated from the bigger base.

    Once again, PS4 has the bigger base of potential customers when it comes to console. So in that sense a game will most likely come on PS4 before XB1 or Switch.
    It's as simple as that.
    06-22-2018 03:47 PM
  4. Golfdriver97's Avatar
    I don't think it's going to be a developer backlash, but that of a consumer. Sure, you will have Sony diehards. But you may also have gamers that have multiple platforms who disagree with Sony's stance. If they stop buying, that's less money in Son'y pocket.

    I don't think this will happen next week or anything, but it may happen soon if Sony keeps this up.
    06-23-2018 09:56 AM
  5. Jez Corden's Avatar
    Microsoft isn't feeding money to Xbox to keep it alive, it's an extremely healthy business. Minecraft alone is a huge, huge driver of revenue.
    deadonthefloor and Armataan like this.
    07-03-2018 11:22 AM
  6. Dush Ku's Avatar
    cross play probably matters just about as much as exclusives, 1080p vs 900p, 4k vs 1440p or native vs checkerboard matter.
    Armataan and Sin Ogaris like this.
    07-04-2018 12:32 PM
  7. Armataan's Avatar
    1. What is keeping Xbox alive during this generation is Microsoft's deep pockets. Microsoft has bought companies larger than Sony.
    Lolwat? The xbox one x costs Microsoft more money than it makes them, but the xbox one makes them money off every console sold (and has since launch), and they make an immense amount of money from the games. The games division also drives R&D for their industry and commercial services infrastructure. The Xbox One has also consistently outsold the xbox 360 (which made Microsoft tons of money) year over year.


    It is hilariously out of touch to think xbox was kept 'alive' because of big pockets. The Xbox One is tremendously profitable for Microsoft.

    ---


    The supposition that Sony's exclusive IP is weaker than Nintendo's is probably valid. The supposition that Sony's exclusive IP is WEAK is delusional. PlayStation players love the reoccurring IPs in Sony games (as well as 2nd party exclusives) and these games always sell strongly on the systems.


    ---

    It will be both consumer and corporate pressures that force Sony's hand in this, but Sony will hold out for as long as they can. Consumers get more value with more crossplay, and companies see sustaioned profits for longer. If they are smart, Sony will make the switch BEFORE the next generation, or they will see initial sells of the PlayStation Next flag because of it. This doesn't matter to that many people right now. Just a distinctly loud minority, but the din will get louder and louder as it steadily moves from 10% of games, to 50%, and then 90%, that offer this service. Once it is an industry standard, no competitor, not even Nintendo, will be able to afford the lack of it.

    ---

    For my part, I own a xbox one (halo edition), Xbox One S, Xbox One X, PS4 Pro (Destiny 2 edition), Android tablet, iPhone, gaming pc, etc. etc. etc. I'll be buying 2 Switches in October. (Wiiu burned me. I waited until there were actually enough games for my kids and I to be entertained this time). We crossplay on several games, and will continue doing so. Playstation has always been primarily utilized for exclusives, with CoD being one of the few third party franchises I engage on the PS. That will remain the case.

    I primarily play Fortnite on my PC though I occasionally use my xbox. I have logged in on the playstation before. My kids primarily play on their xbox, and my nephew on his iPhone, and now he has switched to his Switch. The four of us regularly play together. Or at least we did until Sony literally hijacked purchased content from us because all of us have logged in on a Playstation before. They STOLE content that I purchased on my pc, for use on xbox, and PC. Having to create new accounts and rebuy content because Sony are insane is not cool. And Fortnite is not the only game they're pulling this behavior with.
    Last edited by Armataan; 07-04-2018 at 04:29 PM. Reason: additional content.
    07-04-2018 04:16 PM
  8. BDub0817's Avatar
    Cross play would be a big win for all platforms and improve the quality of games. Seems like a no brainer to me.

    Ten Presuppositions

    1. Sony owns the console lead this generation and no developer will give that up right now.
    2. More PCs than all consoles combined.
    3. Switch and Xbox combined will eventually approach PS4 usage base even if they never surpass it.
    4. Maintaining one online server is cheaper than multiple servers for different platforms.
    5. Many newer games are moving towards an MMO style even with campaign content (see: FallOut 76, Destiny, etc).
    6. Microtransactions rely on ongoing player interaction.
    7. Players are more likely to play online games their friends also play.
    8. Cross-play is extremely popular with gamers and two of the big three openly support it.
    9. What kept Nintendo alive during the WiiU years was their IP. Sony doesn't have as beloved IP.
    10. What is keeping Xbox alive during this generation is Microsoft's deep pockets. Microsoft has bought companies larger than Sony.


    At what point does a game publisher decide it is cheaper to bypass PlayStation altogether than to go through the expense of supporting an isolated system with a much lower ROI? How long does the PlayStation survive if they do? Their stock plummeted after the Fortnite disaster. Imagine if FallOut 76 had announced their game would not be coming to PS4 due to the cross-play restrictions.
    07-04-2018 05:42 PM
  9. Guest_aotf's Avatar
    cross play probably matters just about as much as exclusives, 1080p vs 900p, 4k vs 1440p or native vs checkerboard matter.
    What???
    I would remove exclusives from that list because people do buy a console specifically to play exclusives or for the game library or brand always end up as an option with significant percentage.
    https://gamingbolt.com/wp-content/up...018/01/IDC.jpg
    And mind you this is the primary reason. It could also be the 2nd or 3rd reason for some people...

    Funny enough I've never seen "cross-play" a major reason prior to 2016-2017. Most of the people I see complaining happen to be MS/XB fans.
    For years XB1 hardly ever had any cross-play, MS was against cross-play back in the 360 era. And I'm yet to see anyone who complain now show some of the old post where they complained to MS...
    My guess is that many people use this as ammunition in a silly console war.

    Like I said, it's not an industry standard, it never was. I think it would be nice feature for some people, but blown way out of proportion by some people. If you ask me the current drought of console exclusives on XB1 compared to the competition is a much bigger issue than this.
    07-04-2018 10:26 PM
  10. Guest_aotf's Avatar
    Lolwat? The xbox one x costs Microsoft more money than it makes them, but the xbox one makes them money off every console sold (and has since launch), and they make an immense amount of money from the games. The games division also drives R&D for their industry and commercial services infrastructure. The Xbox One has also consistently outsold the xbox 360 (which made Microsoft tons of money) year over year.


    It is hilariously out of touch to think xbox was kept 'alive' because of big pockets. The Xbox One is tremendously profitable for Microsoft.

    ---


    The supposition that Sony's exclusive IP is weaker than Nintendo's is probably valid. The supposition that Sony's exclusive IP is WEAK is delusional. PlayStation players love the reoccurring IPs in Sony games (as well as 2nd party exclusives) and these games always sell strongly on the systems.


    ---

    It will be both consumer and corporate pressures that force Sony's hand in this, but Sony will hold out for as long as they can. Consumers get more value with more crossplay, and companies see sustaioned profits for longer. If they are smart, Sony will make the switch BEFORE the next generation, or they will see initial sells of the PlayStation Next flag because of it. This doesn't matter to that many people right now. Just a distinctly loud minority, but the din will get louder and louder as it steadily moves from 10% of games, to 50%, and then 90%, that offer this service. Once it is an industry standard, no competitor, not even Nintendo, will be able to afford the lack of it.

    ---

    For my part, I own a xbox one (halo edition), Xbox One S, Xbox One X, PS4 Pro (Destiny 2 edition), Android tablet, iPhone, gaming pc, etc. etc. etc. I'll be buying 2 Switches in October. (Wiiu burned me. I waited until there were actually enough games for my kids and I to be entertained this time). We crossplay on several games, and will continue doing so. Playstation has always been primarily utilized for exclusives, with CoD being one of the few third party franchises I engage on the PS. That will remain the case.

    I primarily play Fortnite on my PC though I occasionally use my xbox. I have logged in on the playstation before. My kids primarily play on their xbox, and my nephew on his iPhone, and now he has switched to his Switch. The four of us regularly play together. Or at least we did until Sony literally hijacked purchased content from us because all of us have logged in on a Playstation before. They STOLE content that I purchased on my pc, for use on xbox, and PC. Having to create new accounts and rebuy content because Sony are insane is not cool. And Fortnite is not the only game they're pulling this behavior with.
    Hmm many questions about your post.
    1) You said
    "The Xbox One has also consistently outsold the xbox 360 (which made Microsoft tons of money) year over year."
    In the same period of time the XB360 sold more units than the XB1.

    2) You said
    "It is hilariously out of touch to think xbox was kept 'alive' because of big pockets. The Xbox One is tremendously profitable for Microsoft."
    Can you provide a link with profits recorded per year?
    Because when I read articles like this:
    https://www.cgmagonline.com/2017/08/...ording-report/
    I'm finding it hard to believe that XB1 is "tremendously profitable".
    I understand that they may not invest much on making games but still, it would be really great if you can prove your statement.

    3) You said
    "They STOLE content that I purchased on my pc, for use on xbox, and PC. Having to create new accounts and rebuy content because Sony are insane is not cool. And Fortnite is not the only game they're pulling this behavior with."
    Well first of all Sony didn't steal anything from you. They didn't take money from you and put it in their pockets. They just said They didn't want to do crossplay with consoles. Epic designed their system that way. If you want this to be fixed, you need to contact EPIC.
    And also what other games they do this with (so-called stealing your money)?
    07-04-2018 10:50 PM
  11. Jombib's Avatar
    Console crossplay will not be an issue for Sony for as long as they have such a massive install base with gamers dedicated to their IPs and platform.

    It's not a question of pressure from developers and publishers as they still make a truck load of money out Sony's platform and will not do anything to mess up that relationship.

    Console crossplay is good for Nintendo because they're just about to launch their online system so having access to PC and Xbox platforms means the first people to jump online will have an install base to play with. For MS it's good as it keeps up the momentum of positive stories that have helped repair their image since the xbox launch debacle.

    At best I could see Sony reducing the restrictions on account switching as that's what people are most upset about and may actually have impact on purchasing decisions. I have all three consoles and I will no longer be linking third party accounts with PS. I'd say a majority of PS players couldn't care less though.
    07-05-2018 04:59 AM
  12. RayWP7's Avatar
    It matters.

    MY generation may have cared about exclusives. My nephews generations? Not-so-much. They want to play games with each other and with their friends. They don't care, and, in some cases don't, understand why they can't. They just know that they want to play with each other socially.

    My nephews and neices play all of the recent games, but towards which do they gravitate most? Roblox, Minecraft, Fortnight, PUBG. Why? They were build around social gaming. What do these have in common? They are not exclusives. Cross play is important to them because it means more fun and less concern over the politics of Sony vs Microsoft. Similar to the older days of Mac vs PC.

    Don't get me wrong. They still love games like God of War, Zero Dawn, Tomb Raider. But they play those when there is no one around. In the day of internet everything, "no one around" is almost a thing of the past.

    Just let me play my/ them damn games with my friends! Let consumers decide which console best fits our needs.
    07-10-2018 01:26 PM
  13. usguyver's Avatar
    Hmm many questions about your post.
    1) You said
    "The Xbox One has also consistently outsold the xbox 360 (which made Microsoft tons of money) year over year."
    In the same period of time the XB360 sold more units than the XB1.

    2) You said
    "It is hilariously out of touch to think xbox was kept 'alive' because of big pockets. The Xbox One is tremendously profitable for Microsoft."
    Can you provide a link with profits recorded per year?
    Because when I read articles like this:
    https://www.cgmagonline.com/2017/08/...ording-report/
    I'm finding it hard to believe that XB1 is "tremendously profitable".
    I understand that they may not invest much on making games but still, it would be really great if you can prove your statement.

    3) You said
    "They STOLE content that I purchased on my pc, for use on xbox, and PC. Having to create new accounts and rebuy content because Sony are insane is not cool. And Fortnite is not the only game they're pulling this behavior with."
    Well first of all Sony didn't steal anything from you. They didn't take money from you and put it in their pockets. They just said They didn't want to do crossplay with consoles. Epic designed their system that way. If you want this to be fixed, you need to contact EPIC.
    And also what other games they do this with (so-called stealing your money)?
    Yet Microsoft just said that there gaming division made about 10 billion last year.
    07-22-2018 10:54 PM
  14. Guest_aotf's Avatar
    Yet Microsoft just said that there gaming division made about 10 billion last year.
    You do know the difference between revenue and profit, right? lol
    Here, this is for you:


    (you're welcome...)
    07-25-2018 02:44 PM

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