04-14-2017 03:43 PM
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  1. Jneb's Avatar
    Hi,

    I'm a french Illustrator/Concept Artist who want to drawing and painting on Surface.
    I'm hesitating between SB and SP4. MAX BUDGET : 2000 $

    Surface Book has Largest and Better Screen and i'm crazy about its design <3 ? but what's the real difference ? i think dGPU is better for Powerful Software like Maya, Avid Pro, is it really necessary for 2D software like photoshop ?

    But SP4 has a kickstand and is more mobile, i can draw in photoshop and use simply the keyboard for shortcuts. SP4 i7 16gb Ram is enough to run Photoshop, Sketchbook ?

    I need your advices please :) ( in France only the SP4 is in preorder. not the surface book maybe for january february ? )
    10-07-2015 03:14 AM
  2. henocksandy's Avatar
    Surface Pro 4 might be better for you. The kickstand and that keyboard is a lot better for Artists. But if u want more GPU, u should go for Surface Book, but i don't think its much use to you if you don't have the NVIDIA graphics which might be more expensive.
    10-07-2015 03:52 AM
  3. Jneb's Avatar
    Thanks Henocksandy :) your answer is exactly what i wanted :) but SP4 has a largest screen than SP3 ? have a nice day.
    10-07-2015 04:56 AM
  4. StevoPhilo's Avatar
    Thanks Henocksandy :) your answer is exactly what i wanted :) but SP4 has a largest screen than SP3 ? have a nice day.
    It is a slightly larger screen mainly due to the smaller bezels they put on the newer SP4.
    10-07-2015 01:31 PM
  5. onysi's Avatar
    SBook looks clunky and heavy. Go with SP4.
    10-07-2015 04:20 PM
  6. a5cent's Avatar
    I'm going to disagree with the above recommendations.

    Video editing with packages like Adobe Premiere or After Effects benefit greatly from a dGPU. If you do any kind of video editing at all, the SP4 is not a valid option.

    Rendering packages like Maya are not your typical consumer software either. Maya will benefit greatly from every extra CPU core you can throw at it. All SP4s variants come with a dual core CPU, whereas any SurfaceBook variant includes a quad core CPU. That means the weakest SurfaceBook will cut Maya's rendering time in half, even when compared to the top-of-the-line SP4.

    I don't know about you, but when I use Maya, one of my hands is constantly engaging the keyboard, and the SurfaceBook comes with the larger and more confortable layout for a better typing experience. I'd consider that very important, and I'd also value the larger screen.

    On MS' SurfaceBook preorder site, this SurfaceBook:

    265GB / dGPU / 16GB RAM

    is listed for $1899. To me that looks like a good fit, and it is within your budget.

    IMHO you are far better served with a SurfaceBook.
    Last edited by a5cent; 10-07-2015 at 06:27 PM. Reason: spelling
    xandros9 and TechFreak1 like this.
    10-07-2015 05:58 PM
  7. xsikal's Avatar
    I'm going to disagree with the above recommendations.

    Video editing with packages like Adobe Premiere or After Effects benefit greatly from a dGPU. If you do any kind of video editing at all, the SP4 is not a valid option.

    Rendering packages like Maya are not your typical consumer software either. Maya will benefit greatly from every extra CPU core you can throw at it. All SP4s variants come with a dual core CPU, whereas any SurfaceBook variant includes a quad core CPU. That means the weakest SurfaceBook will cut Maya's rendering time in half, even when compared to the top-of-the-line SP4.

    I don't know about you, but when I use Maya, one of my hands is constantly engaging the keyboard, and the SurfaceBook comes with the larger and more confortable layout for a better typing experience. I'd consider that very important, and I'd also value the larger screen.
    We might be reading the OP differently, but I took this:

    I'm a french Illustrator/Concept Artist who want to drawing and painting on Surface.
    I'm hesitating between SB and SP4. MAX BUDGET : 2000 $

    Surface Book has Largest and Better Screen and i'm crazy about its design <3 ? but what's the real difference ? i think dGPU is better for Powerful Software like Maya, Avid Pro, is it really necessary for 2D software like photoshop ?

    But SP4 has a kickstand and is more mobile, i can draw in photoshop and use simply the keyboard for shortcuts. SP4 i7 16gb Ram is enough to run Photoshop, Sketchbook ?
    ...to mean that they aren;'t doing video editing or 3d modeling, but primarily do 2d art in photoshop. In which case, I'm not sure there's a need for a dGPU.
    10-07-2015 07:33 PM
  8. a5cent's Avatar
    ...to mean that they aren;'t doing video editing or 3d modeling, but primarily do 2d art in photoshop. In which case, I'm not sure there's a need for a dGPU.
    The OP explicitly mentioned Maya, which is a very high end 3D modeling, animation and rendering solution.
    xandros9 likes this.
    10-07-2015 08:01 PM
  9. DCProjMgr's Avatar
    Agree about the Surface Book, for the reasons above. Plus when it comes to drawing, size matters. The 14" tablet gives you more space for drawing - something to consider if drawing is a major part of your work. Also, (though Microsoft hasn't released the processor specifics) it is likley that they will want to differentiate between teh Book and the Pro lines. The Surface Pros use Intel "U" (stands for ultra mobile, I think). Those 2 Core CPUs are designed for long battery life. It is very possiblr thst Microsoft eiluse th4 coree "H" series fot the book. That would give the SB a processor advantage over the SP4 during heavy loads.

    I would get the Surface Book and see if you can swing the cash to add the docking station.
    Last edited by DCProjMgr; 10-08-2015 at 01:10 AM.
    10-08-2015 12:42 AM
  10. xsikal's Avatar
    The OP explicitly mentioned Maya, which is a very high end 3D modeling, animation and rendering solution.
    I know what Maya is. And in his quote, he explicitly mentioned that he already knew a dGPU was better for Maya, but was wondering if a dGPU is necessary for photoshop. Again, implying (as he said in the rest of the post) that he was focused on 2d art.
    a5cent likes this.
    10-08-2015 10:59 AM
  11. a5cent's Avatar
    ^ Yup. That didn't register with me. I interpreted it to mean he's looking to do all three.

    If Photoshop is all we're talking about, both will probably work fine, although I would still want to test Photoshop on the SP4 before committing.
    xsikal likes this.
    10-08-2015 11:15 AM
  12. onysi's Avatar
    get a 16gb ram surface pro 4. BAM. light and cheap.
    10-08-2015 06:21 PM
  13. Fallen Cpt Jack's Avatar
    If Photoshop is all we're talking about, both will probably work fine, although I would still want to test Photoshop on the SP4 before committing.
    I run Photoshop on my SP3 and it's pretty good. Files over 200GB tend to get slow, but I'd think that the 16GB SP4 would be a considerable improvement, since PS is more about memory than GPU.
    a5cent likes this.
    10-08-2015 10:31 PM
  14. Jazmac's Avatar
    Its a no brainer for me. SurfaceBook all day long.
    10-09-2015 12:05 AM
  15. ytrewq's Avatar
    If you're doing 2D drawing in tablet mode, the SP4 is better in these ways:
    (a) The kickstand makes it more convenient to set it at an angle that pleases you, while the Surface Book won't prop itself up unless it's connected to the base.
    (b) The battery life of the SP4 is 9 hours; the Surface Book only gets 4 hours if not connected to the base.

    However, the SP4 has a slightly smaller screen, if that matters to you.

    If you are just using Photoshop and 2D drawing programs, the SP4 has plenty of horsepower.

    If you are going to spend most of your time with the keyboard attached, the Surface Book has a lot of advantages. The keyboard is better, and you get 12 hours battery life with the base attached.

    For what you are doing, I think either of them would function well, but the ergonomics of how you work will dictate which would be most comfortable to use.
    a5cent likes this.
    10-09-2015 04:12 AM
  16. a5cent's Avatar
    I run Photoshop on my SP3 and it's pretty good. Files over 200GB tend to get slow, but I'd think that the 16GB SP4 would be a considerable improvement, since PS is more about memory than GPU.
    Definitely. For me PS on an SP3 would work just fine.

    I'd still be hesitant to unconditionally recommend a SP4 though. If the artist is a heavy/regular user of GPU accelerated features (oil painting, 3D shadows, etc) and typically works on large files, I'd recommend testing before buying. That, and lots of RAM are the only two performance related things I think we'd need to look at.

    For most it really will be more about screen size, weight, etc.
    Last edited by a5cent; 10-09-2015 at 06:40 AM. Reason: formatting only
    10-09-2015 04:25 AM
  17. Jazmac's Avatar
    SBook looks clunky and heavy. Go with SP4.
    So you haven't actually seen, let alone touched the Surfacebook right? I have seen, touched and picked up a Surface Book and I could never come away with that "video" assessment you have.
    10-09-2015 07:56 AM
  18. Dim-Ize's Avatar
    I am by no means an artist. I'm horrible.

    If I were and I were staying within the MS family, I would choose the SP4 over the Surface Book for reasons already mentioned. I honestly have no basis for measuring, but I have a hunch the Surface Book isn't going to have a very long battery life if detached from the base and using for some rather intense drawing. I can imagine times when an artist would like to just have his/her pen and a tablet on the go. The Surface Book is a laptop first with a feature of removing the screen to act as a clipboard. In many videos, I noticed the SB screen is "wobbly" when drawing unless it is detached (and placed on a hard surface) or reversed on the Surface Book, folded down flat, and laid flat on a table, etc.

    The SP4 allows the user to depart with full rated battery life and pen on the go. It also has ports in the tablet so one could output video or add a USB device, etc.

    Another non MS product for artists seems to be the new VAIO Z Canvas. What is interesting about that is the detached base allows the user to have the base act as a wireless keyboard through IR - meaning the keyboard can still have your "shorcut" menus working with one hand and the pen in your other drawing. It also allows a hardware switch to disengage the screen from any touch input other than the pen, possibly improving accuracy? Not sure.

    For me, I was in love with the Surface Book as I watched the live launch. But, I've decided upon the SP4 as it is a Tablet first with ability to replace a laptop while the Surface Book is a Laptop first with ability to be used as a clipboard.
    10-09-2015 08:15 AM
  19. Fallen Cpt Jack's Avatar
    I checked them out at my local Microsoft store today. The Surface Book is crazy thin and light in tablet mode. I'm not wild about the hinge design - it doesn't open up as far as I'd like, and it makes the device feel thick when it's closed. Since it only has about three hours battery while in tablet mode, I'd be in laptop mode more often than not, which is a bit on the heavy side (about 3.5lbs). The fit and finish is fantastic, and if I needed a dGPU, I'd be on it in a heartbeat.

    The SP4 is pretty much what I expected. It's the same physical size as my SP3 (yes, technically, it's thinner, but put two next to each other and you can barely feel it), and I tested it in the SP3 dock (it works). The screen is a good upgrade, and the new pen is really nice. It holds on to the side very strongly, so I'd feel confident carrying it around without losing the pen. The new keyboard is great - they've added an insert key next to the delete key, and it feels more solid to type on. The trackpad is also hugely improved. Only the black keyboard has the fingerprint reader option, and it's $20 more.

    All that being said, I pre-ordered the SP4 i7/16GB/512GB.
    Last edited by Fallen Cpt Jack; 10-10-2015 at 02:43 PM.
    xsikal likes this.
    10-09-2015 04:09 PM
  20. randykouhai's Avatar
    All that being said, I pre-ordered the SP4 i7/16GB/512GB.
    I wonder if 8GB RAM would make a difference for 2d drawing on Photoshop or Sketchbook or Paint Tool SAI. I want to get the i7/8GB/256GB option for drawing on PS, light gaming (League of Legends, Hearthstone) and programming in future. Maybe ZBrush for 3d modelling. Will you recommend this for my needs? (I've already checked the performance of the games and they're great)
    10-31-2015 07:25 AM
  21. boltman2013's Avatar
    Truthfully look at the Vaio Z Canvas over both SB and SP4 its near that $2K..I think its the best choice based on what you described

    VAIO Z Canvas
    Windows 10 Pro
    Microsoft Signature Edition
    Intel Core™ i7 processor and Intel Iris™ Pro Graphics 5200
    2nd generation PCIe SSD with PCIe Gen.3 compatibility (up to 1TB) or SATA/M.2 for 256GB model
    Up to 16GB of memory
    IEEE802.11a/b/g/n/ac
    12.3 inch LCD WQXGA+ 2560 x 1704 IPS display
    Keyboard, Digitizer stylus (pen)
    Touch Screen
    $2,199

    Wide gamut display
    The wide gamut display of the VAIO Z Canvas has 95% coverage of the Adobe RGB spectrum, and matches the standard LCD monitor used by professionals when they check color. Now your work flow can extend beyond the office to client and site visits. The true, accurate color means you can optimize tasks and apply a precise finish to your work.

    VAIO Z Canvas Pen
    Color management compatible
    The VAIO Z Canvas lets you calibrate and match colors on a single device. And since color profiles of graphic cards can be rewritten on the VAIO Z Canvas, color management is stress free with no interruption to your work flow.

    VAIO Z Canvas Battery
    Battery life that outlasts you
    Other devices that use the powerful processor are heavy consumers of battery life that require a nearby power source and limit where you can be creative. Although it is a compact body, the VAIO Z Canvas is equipped with a 63Wh high capacity battery. This means you can start and finish your project wherever the inspiration strikes.
    10-31-2015 12:57 PM
  22. Daniel Rubino's Avatar
    Rendering packages like Maya are not your typical consumer software either. Maya will benefit greatly from every extra CPU core you can throw at it. All SP4s variants come with a dual core CPU, whereas any SurfaceBook variant includes a quad core CPU.
    Just to get it out there for others but Surface Book is not quad core, it's dual core too.
    Laura Knotek, a5cent and ttsoldier like this.
    10-31-2015 02:03 PM
  23. a5cent's Avatar
    Just to get it out there for others but Surface Book is not quad core, it's dual core too.
    Thanks! The first reviews I saw on the web incorrectly mentioned they had a 45W parts, all of which are quad cores. Now they are listed as using a 15W parts, which are all dual cores. Sorry for spreading FUD. :-/
    11-01-2015 04:55 PM
  24. John M Beauchemin's Avatar
    Hi,

    I'm a french Illustrator/Concept Artist who want to drawing and painting on Surface.
    I'm hesitating between SB and SP4. MAX BUDGET : 2000 $
    Another artist, here. One big reason why I decided to go with the SP4 over the SB is battery life in tablet mode. The SB's battery life when disconnected from the KB is absolutely terrible.

    I do use Maya and/or Max daily, but I have no intention of using them on the tablet. I'll mostly be using Photoshop. So if 3D heavy lifting is imperative, I do agree that you may need that discreet GPU that the SB offers.

    I wonder if 8GB RAM would make a difference for 2d drawing on Photoshop or Sketchbook or Paint Tool SAI. I want to get the i7/8GB/256GB option for drawing on PS, light gaming (League of Legends, Hearthstone) and programming in future. Maybe ZBrush for 3d modelling. Will you recommend this for my needs? (I've already checked the performance of the games and they're great)
    I ordered the same model. I think you'll be fine with those specs.
    a5cent likes this.
    11-01-2015 05:15 PM
  25. Hardcore1973's Avatar
    I am not an artist but I bought the Surface Book and the Surface Pro 4 and I still have not decided which to keep. Its tough because you will use the device the best way it was meant to be used. Right now typing on the Book so I mostly keep in laptop mode. Then when I use my SP4 I usually take the keyboard off and use it as a tablet 99% of the time. I feel more productive using the Book and love typing on it but I also love the portability of the SP4. I am going to take this week to decide. I have a flight on Friday and cannot decide which one to take with me. I know this doesn't really help but even owning them both makes the decision hard ;)
    John M Beauchemin likes this.
    11-01-2015 06:15 PM
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