1. kaktus1389's Avatar
    No, I am not leaving Windows 10 Mobile and no I am not here to to bring up app gap issue or say that I am going to leave the platform or that I am frustrated about the OS itself.

    When Windows Central started literally spamming all of those "Galaxy S8 Microsoft Edition" I was surprised and yet I did read an article or two just to see what are they talking about. Maybe this is an unfair comparison, but still, I think Windows Central didn't post nearly as much promotional articles for HP Elite x3. This is kind of surprising me, given that the Elite x3 is running Windows 10 Mobile and that the S8 is running Android, which is Windows 10 Mobile's competitor. I am trying to understand what happened here - did Google/Samsung provide Windows Central's advertising of the Galaxy S8?

    That doesn't make any sense as that would be self-humiliation, right? And now I thought about it more. Replayed all Microsoft employee's speeches I've heard on the video recordings of hardware events. All I heard was "do more" and "productivity". I love Microsoft's solution that allows users to do more on the go with the monitor, keyboard and mouse hooked up called Continuum. I use it frequently, for many tasks that don't require the real PC power (gaming, heavy multitasking). Now this is just me. I do know other people who use Windows Phones, some people at my school, my whole family (which basically use it because I integrated them to the OS - even made my mother switch from Android to W10M/WP8.1 when her screen broke). To me looks like the rest of the world is using Android phones and iPhones. And neither of those system offered this unique feature that Microsoft offered us (offered - The Past Simple Tense).

    On the sidelines, I did follow the development of Samsung and Apple devices. Several devices have been released since the Lumia 950 and 950 XL's debut in the Autmn of 2015. Since then, no major updates have been released for Continuum as well, even if the HP Elite x3 was released with impressive specs and quite a big push from the HP which I truly admire. When the TH2 was released, I was telling myself the same as probably everyone who used Continuum back then - it was going to improve with RS1. When RS1 was released, I was probably telling myself the same - Continuum should be improved with RS2. Even Windows Central posted about the new evolution of Continuum that looked very promising on that video. And now when RS2 is in final stages of development, I can't understand where did that disappear? Oh well, it's coming with RS3, right? But what a surprise - Samsung Galaxy S8 release date was very close to the final stages of RS2 update. Now you can call me a conspiracy theorist but after analysing everything in my head a few times, I think we may all have been mislead for some time.

    No Android device was previously marketed by Microsoft. Heck, almost no W10M device was previously marketed properly by Microsoft. And now they are marketing a device, that actually represents their very vision about the future of computing. With more features than Continuum, which was probably developed faster than Continuum was. Hell, Continuum wasn't even updated. I think that Microsoft was definitely working with Samsung on development of the Dex feature and was not updating Continuum features intentionally, so they would not damage the popularity of the Samsung Dex and accuse Samsung of copying their own feature.

    You will probably think I am crazy, but I can only understand the sudden "marketing shift" and ultimately the "we are committed to mobile" statements made by MS employees.
    libra89 likes this.
    04-19-2017 01:09 PM
  2. libra89's Avatar
    I don't think you're crazy. You have solid points. I wouldn't be surprised if this is in their "for now" pocket while they continue to maintain Windows 10 Mobile as a side project.
    kaktus1389 and Guytronic like this.
    04-19-2017 01:18 PM
  3. kaktus1389's Avatar
    I don't think you're crazy. You have solid points. I wouldn't be surprised if this is in their "for now" pocket while they continue to maintain Windows 10 Mobile as a side project.
    Glad to hear that there are people out there who don't think I am crazy
    libra89 likes this.
    04-19-2017 01:34 PM
  4. Awhispersecho's Avatar
    Glad to hear that there are people out there who don't think I am crazy
    I don't think you're crazy..I think you're BOTH crazy!!!

    Haha, I kid. Your thoughts are as valid as any others at this point especially since MS won't say anything. Though I'm not sure Windows 10 Mobile will be kept as a side project for very long. I'm pretty sure it's the end for that SKU
    libra89 likes this.
    04-19-2017 07:17 PM
  5. eddieDOTexe's Avatar
    It makes sense actually.
    They had plenty of time to improve on Continuum and they've done absolutely nothing.
    I suppose now we know why.
    They are probably helping Samsung out with Dex because they'll get quite a bit more feedback on these types of devices/experience via Samsung's phone than they would out of a Windows Phone at this point.

    So.. thats probably why they're doing what they're doing. Development for continuum and devices that support it may ramp up once Dex is out the door and the feedback starts rolling in. This type of feedback is crucial for Windows on ARM and the Surface Phone should that ever come out.
    >Are customers satisfied with semi-desktop mode? Would a hybrid UI work best?
    >Or do they want Windows on ARM to switch to full desktop mode like on x86?

    Windows on ARM is what's next. W10Mobile I feel is just a pet project and essentially Windows RT for those ARM devices that will not be able to run WinARM. Eventually it'll probably fade away into
    >We remain committed to our Windows 10 Mobile customers despite the fact that we haven't released new devices or updates in the last 2 years
    and eventually just silence.
    Thats how Microsoft kills a product. See: Zune, Windows RT, Band
    Although we're not quite there yet. We will be eventually. They just can't announce that its dead because they still want customers to invest as much as they want into it. Announcing a discontinuation will decrease app sales and OS usage. And they are still running a business afterall.
    Last edited by eddieDOTexe; 04-19-2017 at 08:42 PM. Reason: Who the **** decided "want" should have an apostrophe "wan't" good god I hate Windows 10's autocorrect
    libra89 likes this.
    04-19-2017 08:35 PM
  6. techiez's Avatar
    You want to know what MS thinks of W10M.

    See this.
    https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/...soft-accounts/

    [Update 4/18/17 3:08pm Pacific: A few people have asked if this works with Windows Phone version Microsoft Authenticator. Windows Phone makes up <5% of the active users of our Authenticator Apps so we have prioritized getting this working with iOS and Android for now. If/When it becomes a big success on those high scale platforms, we will evaluate adding support for Windows Phone.]

    So there you go, they are not interested to support their own platform, the app already supports actionable notifs, so should be very minimal effort involved in backend to bring this to W10M as well but no they wont do it coz of marketshare, now see the bigger picture, they have given up on their own mobile efforts and plan to be a software vendor on android and ios.

    RS2 was supposed to be mobile focused, but its not and nor will RS3,4,5 be. they will kill off W10M, WoA will help them power tablets etc but no phones as fans expect, for all we know they may have already given up on surface phone.
    libra89 and Guytronic like this.
    04-21-2017 12:26 AM
  7. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    When Windows Central started literally spamming all of those "Galaxy S8 Microsoft Edition" I was surprised and yet I did read an article or two just to see what are they talking about. Maybe this is an unfair comparison, but still, I think Windows Central didn't post nearly as much promotional articles for HP Elite x3. This is kind of surprising me, given that the Elite x3 is running Windows 10 Mobile and that the S8 is running Android, which is Windows 10 Mobile's competitor. I am trying to understand what happened here - did Google/Samsung provide Windows Central's advertising of the Galaxy S8?
    I don't think Windows Central paid less attention to the HP Elite - HP Elite x3 | Windows Central

    There were tonnes of articles on it when it came out and for some time after.

    As several articles from Dan has stated now we're all waiting for some clarity to see what MS has plans for WM. Let's face it, it's a very small percentage of users on WM.

    I'm amazed that it's still going. Any other company would have killed it off by now. That may still happen but who knows?
    techiez, Drael646464 and libra89 like this.
    04-21-2017 02:35 AM
  8. Drael646464's Avatar
    Well let's get this straight. Microsoft didn't help Samsung create DeX. They made their Microsoft app suite, DeX compatible. And those are the only apps on the platform I believe that are designed to scale for a desktop experience.

    Now, should samsungs DeX take off (unlikely considering every other app is still mobile focused making it, outside of MS core apps, a bad user experience - and probably something no one will develop for either) - then MS is sitting pretty having dethroned the ones who would have benefited - google.

    And if it doesn't, MS gets their apps as default on the s8's AND a Microsoft edition, all displacing google services.

    It's not really a situation where MS looses anything.

    You have to remember also that MS is working on things like voice (bot intergration), windows cloud, windows on arm, and the rs3 update. And I think they intend to release every one of those this year. I imagine that's keeping them pretty busy.

    And if their bid to capture a) cheap tablets b) cheap laptops, they could gain a foothold against google and apple, in both the tablet market, and the chromebook education arena. Just follow this - only two areas in tablets are growing. 1) Windows 2) Budget. Apple and Samsung have both had negative growth for 3-4 years. Now if you put LTE compatibility in there, cheaper devices, and longer battery life, via windows on ARM - you have windows positioned in BOTH the areas of tablet growth, a position from which they could capture significant marketshare, even maybe one day, all marketshare. Windows tablets after all are, popular with early adopters, sort of hip, and work extremely well on the FF.

    And then theirs cheap laptops - chromeOS is stealing their thunder. They need to shut that down with the windows cloud, cloudbook.

    And why, why is this all so important to MS? Well, if windows can gain dominance in tablets, or significant marketshare, and windows can regain total lappie dominance - that's desktops, laptops and tablets - a much greater "mindshare" for the total presence of windows - and as importantly, they can have A REAL USERBASE for UWP apps.

    You see, the windows cloudbook runs mainly UWPs. UWPs are great on tablets. If windows gains marketshare in these two areas, it gets DEVELOPERS to code UWPs.

    And developers for UWPs, means Microsoft can reasonably re-enter the mobile arena, competitive with its competition - ie with a more level playing field app wise. It's IMO, a really smart play. Windows 10 is great on this form factor, its strong in this area, it has growth in this area, momentum. Sealing and doubling down on that can push back the front line, and open the field up for a big push.

    But as for Samsung and MS? Well most people don't realise they have a really good relationship. It actually ties into mutual interests. You see Google and Apple are the top guns. Samsung and Microsoft want to be at the top. Samsung has repeatedly said "We don't want to tie ourselves to android" - and with good reason, because that ties them to second place. MS on the other hand knows that cross platform compatibility, and open partnership helps second tier players. It helped apple in the past recover from its losses.

    So for quite some time Samsung and Apple have been working together. Back in 2013 they co-announced their prototype for a flexible graphene based screen. Samsung sells MS products, Microsoft sells Samsung products. Microsoft helps Samsung make Dex by giving them Dex compaitible apps - Samsung helps MS by making their apps come on every S8 device. You see its not exactly MS selling out "to the enemy". In fact Samsung is constantly making market moves that are entirely antagonistic to google, and vice versa. For example making its own smartwatch OS, developing its own assistant - the list is EXTENSIVE.

    So this is all a little more complex corporate wise than most people will follow. Suffice to say, that actually Samsung and MS have common interest, and that interest is against google services, as strange as that may strike people. For every product catergory, or type of software there is pretty much, Samsung has a dog in the race against google.

    Samsung doesn't want to be bottom dog, and settle for being underling. And it can't beat google, or apple, while it depends on google. Ultimately, Samsung craves to break free of the bondage.

    I think long term, with folding oled screens, Samsung would actually quite like to work with MS's OS, put windows 10 on those folding tablets. But atm, that's just not market viable, graphene isn't cheap enough, and windows is still working its way up in the mobile mindshare. But if the two get a real chance to team up, against the big two - I believe they will take it.

    For windows, that path lies through tablets and laptops - through OTHER cellular connected devices, and THEN smartphones. Smartphones just isn't the route yet.
    04-21-2017 06:00 AM
  9. Drael646464's Avatar
    I don't think Windows Central paid less attention to the HP Elite - HP Elite x3 | Windows Central

    There were tonnes of articles on it when it came out and for some time after.

    As several articles from Dan has stated now we're all waiting for some clarity to see what MS has plans for WM. Let's face it, it's a very small percentage of users on WM.

    I'm amazed that it's still going. Any other company would have killed it off by now. That may still happen but who knows?
    Well that's what I keep saying. BB literally released two bb10 phones, and a year later dropped all support like a brick. I think most companies would have given up.

    But there again, I don't think MS is done with mobile. I think they are plotting a route into mobile, via other cellular connected devices, like tablets and in 1's - the one quite reasonable way they can close the app gap, and extend from desktop down, via leverage. The market of tablets, is quite ripe for their taking in a way, as is them re-taking laptops via 2 in 1s and cheap laptops.

    So while it might not be "win 10 mobile", and perhaps that will be repurposed for wearables? (For me, that would make sense, its a swift, lightweight OS, that runs UWPs including big future Cortana, so it'd be stupid to completely shelve it)

    For me, and MS strategy, I can kind of see it. Conversation as a platform, pushing the front on tablets and laptops getting that store going, eventually partnership with Samsung perhaps and foldable windows tablets. Strong game I think, if done well. But the big question for me is wearables and IoT. MS has talked big here, but the manifestation is a while off. They pulled the band, so whats after? Their smart home device will probably wait for Cortana bots, so it can show off cortanas new skills. But what about watches, fridges and all that? Seems like that part of the plan, like phones, is taking a backseat to getting the pieces in play. And I'm not sure they have a plan on that yet, or a solid one.

    I think there's a sense in which its not just user maintainence and fan service, that they are still doing these up dates for win10 mobile. They want to be able to take from, use, learn from, and adapt the platform, UI etc, for a future time. Sort of a bidding of time, while they move the other pieces into place. So yeah, while other companies would drop you, don't feel like its special treatment. MS hasn't given up on smartphones or pocket PCs or whatever they will call them, they are just flanking the market through other cellular devices, leveraging the desktop platform.
    04-21-2017 06:31 AM

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