06-04-2012, 03:50 PM #1
- 51 Posts
Why does everyone think so highly of Nokia?
1. They only make Windows Phones because Microsoft paid them > $ 1 Billion dollars to do so. Prior to that they made no Windows Phones at all.
2. It's true that Nokia promotes Windows Phone in advertisements, but that's because there's no choice. It's part of their contract with Microsoft, advertising was required.
3. The Lumia 800/900 series have a good design. However, it's not a unique design. It's a recycled design, the exact same as the Nokia N9.
People criticize HTC because they focus more on Android, which is true. However, HTC have also created a lot of unique designs for Windows Phone that isn't available for Android (e.g. Mozart, Titan I/II, Radar, Surround, et cetera), and they've been supporting Windows Phone with multiple phone designs ever since Windows Phone launched without the need for a billion dollar financial incentive.
Both Nokia and HTC are good companies, and having Nokia on board with MS is good for the brand. However the only reason Nokia makes WP is because of the $1billion dollar deal from Microsoft. I would say HTC has been much more supportive of WP than Nokia. So why all the love for Nokia as opposed to HTC?
06-04-2012, 04:05 PM #3
- 112 Posts
That opinion is debatable and of course was and is fiercly debated, but still there sure is much more behind Nokia's move to WP than simply a payment of a billion from Microsoft.
- 06-04-2012, 04:13 PM #5
Hmmm, well; If any of the others made some decent looking hardware to go with this OS I would propably love them as well. I might even have gone for a HTC if they had made a revamped Legend with WP! But as it is now all the HTCs remind me to much of Android and I never really cared much for Samsung, it feels to much like plastic. And Voila, choosen by exclusion.....
Sure the 800 and 900 are iterations of the N9, but they would have been fools if they had just turned their backs on that design line. It is amazing and I hope they can stay true to it for years to come. (will be hard though if they have to fit a Pureview camera in it)
Besides this there is history, my first (second and third) cellphones was Nokias and through the years of Symbian Sony Ericssons, a Razzr, BlackBerries and back to Sony Ericsson Android I was forever missing some of that simple elegance that the first Nokias had.
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06-04-2012, 04:18 PM #7
- 66 Posts
Agreement or no agreement, Nokia are doing great things for the platform... and I think that's what people recognise.
As a company it's using well-designed hardware, responding appropriately and quickly to software issues, pushing the profile of Windows Phone (certainly here in the UK!), and giving the right sort of added value (i.e. Nokia Drive).
- 06-04-2012, 04:29 PM #10
HTC and Samsung have had pretty big financial incentives for supporting Microsoft with Windows Phone - IP.
It's widely thought that licensing costs for Android infringements are lower for Samsung and HTC because they help support Windows Phone with handsets. The total amount saved (not only in licensing, but being able to price a handset lower) amounts to potential masses - especially considering how many Android handsets Samsung and HTC are selling.
- 06-04-2012, 04:37 PM #11
by doing this they became the FLAG SHIP for WP and by this they get access to more API's and exclusive apps witch makes them more attractive then other WPs ( just the exclusive apps probably give them 40% of WP shares , just like the first WP to get Dual-core will be probably break all WP records in sales..)
that's not counting all the free publicity they get from AT&T and on their own(with the 7bill from MS )
If HTC doesn't advertise WP as much as they advertise Android .. then to bad for them. until they do ... they can cry me a river for all i care... same thing with Samsung
2. you dint mention it , but I Like Samsung over any phone right now :) seriously Samsung make some of the best hardware and they get no recognition for it ( on WP ) although their second gen WP wasn't that exiting im hoping the WP8 from Samsung will be good :)
- 06-04-2012, 04:48 PM #12
I like the Titan 2 better than the Lumia, but Nokia is really pushing WP (for various reasons). I would get the Lumia because of the support for WP Nokia is offering and the beautiful design. Of course by the time I can upgrade there should be Apollo devices out and I'm hoping for a 4.7" Nokia in cyan.
- 06-04-2012, 04:59 PM #13
Yeah, Nokia sucks monkey balls! Its not as if MS is benefitting in the maps area, operator contacts, Chinese and Indian market brand recognition, and of course having Nokia fully committed to WP is much worse than losing them to android. Yes, HTC has done much more than Nokia, releasing their WP phones and then running back to their android business and releasing the same phone multiple times. I also see HTC has released brilliant free apps for their users like HTC Drive, HTC Maps, HTC Transport, etc.
Nokia definitely does not deserve the attention they are getting, bunch of toerags. /S :dry
- 06-04-2012, 05:00 PM #14
HTC has good WP7 phones, and they've done a good job supporting the platform, but they're still not doing as good as Nokia. Have you used the Nokia made or Nokia exclusive apps? They're damn good. The HTC apps are *ok* - but nothing stands out.
People criticized HTC not so much because they focused on Android phones, but because ALL their Android phones were bloated with Sense, had AWFUL battery life, and had BAD recycled designs. They've changed a lot of perception with the "One" line, and I fully expect them to do a "One" line Windows Phone 8 device. It should be great.
06-04-2012, 05:14 PM #15
- 4,482 Posts
The amount that MS is giving them is not anywhere near enough to turn Nokia's financial problems around. That money would alone would not be enough to buy off Nokia's loyalty. It's peanuts. Nokia went with Windows Phone because they believe it's the best ecosystem.
Also, the billion you're talking about wasn't a payoff. It was MS buying the ability to use existing Nokia services. Nokia already has a robust international marketplace. They have agreements already in place in many countries that would take MS a lot of money, time, and man hours in order to replicate.
Nokia also has better international mapping. We are already seeing that integrated into Bing.
It appears you have a huge misunderstanding about what is entailed in the deal between MS and Nokia.2. It's true that Nokia promotes Windows Phone in advertisements, but that's because there's no choice. It's part of their contract with Microsoft, advertising was required.
It was a choice. A very strategic choice with a lot of thought put into it. They made the choice when they picked exclusivity for Windows Phone.
Did you think they'd just sit around and not promote their own products?3. The Lumia 800/900 series have a good design. However, it's not a unique design. It's a recycled design, the exact same as the Nokia N9.
In order to get handset out this year at the build quality Nokia demands, they had to use an existing shell.
It's still way more beautiful and original than 99% of the stuff out there.People criticize HTC because they focus more on Android, which is true. However, HTC have also created a lot of unique designs for Windows Phone that isn't available for Android (e.g. Mozart, Titan I/II, Radar, Surround, et cetera), and they've been supporting Windows Phone with multiple phone designs ever since Windows Phone launched without the need for a billion dollar financial incentive.
And nobody is criticizing HTC for putting more focus on Android. I think most of the criticism has been that they pretty much have put no focus on Windows Phone.
I think everyone understands why companies like HTC put more focus on Android.Both Nokia and HTC are good companies, and having Nokia on board with MS is good for the brand.However the only reason Nokia makes WP is because of the $1billion dollar deal from Microsoft.I would say HTC has been much more supportive of WP than Nokia.So why all the love for Nokia as opposed to HTC?
A 100% commitment to the platform.
A long history of excellent devices.
EXCELLENT customer service.
- 06-04-2012, 05:56 PM #16
One reason is because people who've owned Nokia's in the past know them as very sturdy phones that often had unique and innovative designs. I know that's part of the reason for my affection for Nokia.
Another reason is that after 2 years of Windows Phone being treated like the red-headed stepchild, pushed aside in the market, relegated to dusty, forgotten corners of the phone stores, it is FINALLY getting the attention and press it deserves. Nokia has a great deal to do with that and most people who care about Windows Phone can see that, even if they don't have a Lumia (yet!).
Microsoft's investment in Nokia surely has a lot to do with why Nokia is fully committed to Windows Phone. But it's a mutually beneficial arrangement. The other OEM's were doing virtually nothing to help Windows Phone. They barely advertised, if at all. They really did not bring out any compelling designs.
Yes the Lumia 900 borrows heavily from the look of the N9, however almost no one in the U.S. market had seen the N9, so it's completely fresh design language for almost everyone and they will identify that look with Windows Phone now.
The unique look of the iPhone, which can't be mistaken for anything else, does wonders for the mindshare of iOS. It's free advertising. A black or gray plastic HTC or Samsung that looks like every other Android on the market except for a tiny Windows logo can't do that for Windows Phone no matter how nice the features might be.
Most people buy PHONES, not OS's. If you're going to get the attention of someone who's on their 4th iPhone or Android, it's going to take something special. Two phones that look like last years Android model stuck in the corner with some weird looking tiles on the screen isn't going to do it. I think that's been proven at this point, hasn't it?
So what does it take to get those people's attention. A lot. Some unusual commercials that run 10 times a day. A smartphone in a striking shade of blue that you can't ignore that has a curved chassis that makes almost everything else look outdated and staid. Those are pretty good starts I'd say.
People can yammer on all day about how Microsoft is investing in Nokia. Doesn't matter. Windows Phone was on life support with it's marketshare actually DECLINING before this renewed push by Microsoft and it could not have happened without Nokia.
The Lumia 900 has not only single-handedly reversed Windows Phone's declining marketshare, it's actually raising it.
So yeah, I love Nokia and I won't apologize for it. They've done more for Windows Phone in the last 2-3 months than all of the other OEM's have done COMBINED over the last 2 years.
- 06-04-2012, 06:00 PM #17
IMO the best two hardware manufactures are Apple and Nokia. Motorola is slightly behind them for me. Personally think HTC and Samsung make cheap feeling phones. All plasticy and creaky, gross.
Nokia N73 FTW. Also my first cell phone ever was a Nokia 3310, indestructible it was and had swappable face plates. I rocked two-tones hard for a long time. Nokia also made "The Matrix" phone which everyone at the time knew about.
Last edited by sting2k7; 06-04-2012 at 06:11 PM.
- 06-04-2012, 06:01 PM #18
- 06-04-2012, 07:33 PM #19
- 06-04-2012, 11:08 PM #20
Why do people love Nokia so much? Because they took a leap of faith.
There are those out there who believe that Stephen Elop is a Microsoft trojan horse and one day he showed at Nokia's headquarters with cash in hand and told them that they're going to ditch everything they've ever accomplished so they can make Windows Phones. That's a fine story but I highly doubt it was that simple.
Lets not forget that Nokia's entire board had to sign off on what is a massive deal. It's not just a cash infusion, or simply repackaging the N9; Nokia restructured their company to become a lean, mean Windows Phone machine. They took all the work and progress they made with Symbian/Meego and tossed it out the window.
That's not an overnight decision. An overnight decision is saying, "Hey, our Galaxy SII is pretty sweet. Lets toss Mango inside it and call it a day." What Nokia did required months of planning, meetings, watching market trends, and a massive evaluation of their long term strategy. They knew Symbian was dying and had two choices - Android or Windows Phone.
Now, when I say a leap of faith I a mean leap of super freakin' faith.
Who remembers when Windows Phone first launched? Multi-tasking? Son, we didn't have copy and paste! Poor app selection and crappy 1st gen hardware made Windows Phone users the laughing stock of smartphones. And Nokia joined up with who? Microsoft? A company that, at the time, only had 7% worldwide market share with their failing Windows Mobile platform. Sure Microsoft threw some money at them, but not nearly enough to make Nokia an overnight success or to guarantee long term growth.
Logically Nokia should have went with Android. It was and still is a much more mature platform. Google controls over 50% of the worldwide market with no signs of slowing down. It would have been easy for Nokia to slap a skin on Android and start pumping out device after device. However, someone at Nokia crunched the numbers and decided that Android was a poor choice. Look how that turned out. Samsung and Apple are expected to grab over 90% of mobile profits in 2012. 90-freaking-percent! LG, HTC, Motorola, they're hurting. And Nokia could be in the same boat had they chosen Android.
Now, Nokia choosing Windows Phone could still end with them going bankrupt, but instead of taking the easy Android route, Nokia took the very very very hard Windows Phone route. Considering the size of Nokia, they could blow a billion dollars in less than a year. A billion dollars just isn't enough money to justify the risk they're taking with Windows Phone. And if I'm not mistaken, that's 1 billion spread out over 5 years, thus making Windows Phone an even riskier choice.
Nokia took a massive leap of faith by choosing Windows Phone and users are standing behind them because they know Nokia is going at this 100%. What makes the Microsoft-Nokia partnership so beautiful is that they were both lost with no direction and they needed each other to find their path.
As for HTC... I've argued in the past that HTC has been very good to Windows Phone. I'd even argue that HTC was the number 1 WP vendor before Nokia came along. And contrary to popular belief, HTC has released firmware updates for their phones. In fact, the international version of the original Titan received several firmware updates. Those updates may still get released when Tango finally drops.
However, HTC still treats Windows Phone as a secondary option. HTC had over a year to make a competitive ecosystem and did absolutely nothing. They've also been slow to acknowledge problems with their Windows Phone. When users started reporting paint chipping on the new HTC One S, HTC immediately responded. Titan users have been complaining about terrible sound quality on the Titan and HTC hasn't said anything. Factoring in that fairly unusable WiFi antenna and I was not a happy Titan user. That's why I switched to the Lumia 900. HTC isn't the devil but Nokia has clearly eclipsed them in the support and ecosystem department.
And Samsung? Windows Phone is just a cash grab to them. Microsoft gave them 12 million to advertise their phones and Samsung skipped right back to Android town once that money ran out.
While it may seem unfair that Nokia has so many exclusive apps, I can't be mad at them because HTC/Samsung had over a year to build a superior ecosystem and flat out wasted it. Reap what you sow.
Last edited by HeyCori; 06-04-2012 at 11:16 PM.
- 06-05-2012, 01:41 AM #22
I just love my Nokia for what it is. The fantastic build quality is not something I easily would give up. I don't care enough about the behind-the-scenes stuff to Not buy a Nokia. Well I could, but at least they have not pulled a Sony or anything...
06-05-2012, 06:24 AM #23
- 305 Posts
Samsung don't even release their whole range in Europe, HTC's quality has gone downhill and their commitment to Windows Phone seems half hearted (speaking as a not very happy Titan owner) so when Nokia admit and fix issues on their phones I sit up and take notice. On my Titan there are sound issues, reboots when I use too much storage and the navigation app is a 30 day trial: when faced with these issues it's not difficult to make a decision on my next phone.
- 06-05-2012, 08:15 AM #24
Being a T-mobile user, I've been drowning in mediocre Android phone obscurity for some time. The Nokia phones, even the middle of the road offerings purchased by T-mobile where just a fresh change of pace. My only regret is that T-mobile didn't get the 800 or 900.